Squad bonuses
Align
Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">As seen on design log</div><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/139ySUrBsO0m0Z4ilq0YsDEHJLQhBa6RrIjJIsckL2kE/edit?hl=en&authkey=CLCo8Z0J#" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/139ySUrB...thkey=CLCo8Z0J#</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- There is no mechanic for marine squads. It was going to be squad spawning originally, but now there are phase gates. What should encourage groups of squads?
-- Heal while in a squad (health) (nice and clear, although a bit hard to justify in fiction)
-- Get armor back (the only way?)
-- Armor boost (# points of health per armor point) (but obtuse and not really visible)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I could see both 1 and 2 being justified in fiction as improvements in the nanotech. Aliens get to overpower the nano-gridlock much more than in NS1 with their infestation, so it makes a lot of sense that marines can similarly overpower it more than before with their presence.
After all, a marine's presence already boosted the nanites enough to give the commander line of sight - the nano-gridlock is what caused the Fog of War effect in the first place - and medpacks/welders are mostly just nanite-based.
It would also be a very obvious way of encouraging newbies to stick together, especially if the effect increases as you have more marines. Though it should probably plateau with 3 marines in the squad to prevent marine immortality on 16v16 fragfest pubs.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- There is no mechanic for marine squads. It was going to be squad spawning originally, but now there are phase gates. What should encourage groups of squads?
-- Heal while in a squad (health) (nice and clear, although a bit hard to justify in fiction)
-- Get armor back (the only way?)
-- Armor boost (# points of health per armor point) (but obtuse and not really visible)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I could see both 1 and 2 being justified in fiction as improvements in the nanotech. Aliens get to overpower the nano-gridlock much more than in NS1 with their infestation, so it makes a lot of sense that marines can similarly overpower it more than before with their presence.
After all, a marine's presence already boosted the nanites enough to give the commander line of sight - the nano-gridlock is what caused the Fog of War effect in the first place - and medpacks/welders are mostly just nanite-based.
It would also be a very obvious way of encouraging newbies to stick together, especially if the effect increases as you have more marines. Though it should probably plateau with 3 marines in the squad to prevent marine immortality on 16v16 fragfest pubs.
Comments
I think bonus damage to structures or faster building speed is something that could encourage marines to stick together.
that should be enough.
that should be enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
B...But how am I suppose to cleanse the intruders if they all cover each other? =(
If Charlie meant that each Marine should be rewarded for following his own squad rather than any other marine, then I can't see the merit to such a "tail wagging the dog" squad system. Marines should be more flexible than that!
anyway, just add a visual indicator that your in the same squad, and make the marines of your squad another colour on the minimap.
or something. I don't think they need buffs for playing like they should thou.
-Set squads, can choose/move during & before the match.
-Squad commanders able to mark a spot a spot on the map by aiming pressing a key, only 1 mark
-Squad commanders might be the solution to giving buffs to squads somehow, whereas you would probably want it to be your best alien slayer being that they would die less and benefit your squad a bit more leadership wise and whether they can somehow buff the squad. I think this a different approach rather than a pure proximity squad buff that is on all the time.
-With a squad commander you could let them choose/purchase the buffs from the armory that the commander has researched perhaps(only needs to purchase once will be available when spawning)
-Having maybe 3 different buff slots(offensive,neutral(ammo or something), defensive; with couple different options, some may be passive squad buffs when in proximity, some may be a "on use" buff for a short duration.
-The purpose of the squad commander whether or not the other ideas are worth anything is that is going to enable the commander to better manage his team. Ive been playing both marine/commander and as commander it would be invaluable if i was able to assign "red squad" to hold this area down instead of finding each player running around the map and setting them a waypoint and then remembering who i sent where and making sure things are defended properly. The squad commander could then micro that squad if they wanted into defending a position.
-Its more efficient,
Squad leader buffs remind me of the team support abilities in Alien Swarm (eg Heal, Ammo, Flare, etc), and would allow interesting marines squad customizations. Certain limitations need to be imposed (eg only Squad Leaders can purchase squad buffs, and only one buff can be chosen/active at any time), otherwise large groups of Marines would have too much synergy.
Thumbs up on the active buff idea. Passive buffs would work too. But the majority of the buffs should be active, with limited durations, to reward squad leaders for good strategic & tactical decisions. For instance, an active utility ability could be Catalyst, which hastes all nearby Marines' movement and reloading speed for a few seconds. Whereas a passive defensive buff could be Nanite Shield, which provides nearby Marines with increased armor. An active offensive buff might be Disruption, which slows the movement of nearby Kharaa lifeforms for a brief moment.
Perhaps squad leader abilities/buffs can even replace commander's problematic Ammo and Med drop Packs, to reduce the burden of micromanagement from the Marine Commander, as well as encourage cooperation between ground Marines.
Like how ns combat gives experience to people nearby the killer.
Squad linking where you can see the health/armor of your teamates. In your hud where their names are. (Helpful to weld a friend's armor.)
Squad leader, to give quick orders on the battlefield and to alert your squad quickly. (Inspiration: Portal 2 Ping tool, brilliant for alerting people.)
Health/Armor bonuses doesn't really make sense. Imagine a Republic Commandos experience, Cooperating as a squad rather than being with others for the stat bonuses.
Commander chosen to prevent griefing of waypoints and other hud abilities provided by the squad leader.
It would help new commanders out as the learn the game, and provide a new layer of tactical gameplay.
I think that's probably best, and it doesn't cause imbalance in a fight but rather it spans the whole game instead. However most important is actually knowing that you've been assigned a squad and making sure that a squad doesn't break as easily as it does now.
Always getting for example an extra +1 personal resources for every kill made by that squad (even if you didn't get the kill) is reason enough for me at least.
I will share my idea, bare with me:
Basically the whole squad can see each others line of sight, bit hard to explain but say the situation is:
You're placed at the back of the squad, one of the squad members peeks around a corner and spots a hydra and a skulk, after a certain time limit or instantly you will be able to see the outline of the enemy buildings / players through walls as their position is given away by the line of sight via the squad members. Once the LOS has been broken, all squad members instantly loose LOS through the walls. You could also have another item such as a Visor that you can only see LOS via Squad members with the visor on a well.
It would be useful as aliens can already do this, plus it would encourage mariens to stick together though i can see some exploits for this but i'm sure it would be enough to over come with correct coding implementations.
Hope my idea dosn't sound silly.
-Scott.C
(Sorry for lack of grammar 3am... nuff said)
-- Heal while in a squad (health) (nice and clear, although a bit hard to justify in fiction)
-- Get armor back (the only way?)
-- Armor boost (# points of health per armor point) (but obtuse and not really visible)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
-- Reintroduce welders so we can repair each other's armor. Tried, tested, and proven to promote teamwork.
Squad based motion tracking(observatory upgrade, ala ns1), if your friend sees it around the corner, you see it as well. To some extent.
Silhouettes on the squad motion tracking would be cool(endgame upgrade?), but information delivery on that level may be a bit overpowered.
Good idea scotty! had a similar one a while back.
Im thinking it'll probably be a bit overpowered, replacing motion tracking with 'squad sight' might be an idea - but sharing it among all marines.
The ability to share squad sight to those outside the squad would be removed on infestation, this removes the complaint that MT essentially stopped all alien rushes; as you can still gather while on infestation and remain invisible.
that should be enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
qft.
It would help new commanders out as the learn the game, and provide a new layer of tactical gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, I wasn't asking how leaders are chosen, I was asking how we can have them work with the dynamic squad system where marines join and leave squads based on their proximity. In case you meant something else... Going back to the commander-made squads seems like a definite step backwards.
<!--quoteo(post=1857539:date=Jul 1 2011, 07:10 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Jul 1 2011, 07:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857539"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-- Reintroduce welders so we can repair each other's armor. Tried, tested, and proven to promote teamwork.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well enough, but it isn't really a squad-specific mechanic.
The commander could also give a Marine some sort of portable armoury. That would also be cool and a squad bonus.
Increased Pres income rate when you are with others would also be cool.
Well enough, but it isn't really a squad-specific mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Simple, really. If he is in proximity of a group, the other players can see his hud commands. If he's alone, no one else will see them. If someone joins a squad a few seconds after he issued an order, the order will linger for a few seconds. And if two squad leaders meet up at the same group, they can both issue commands.
I liked scotty's idea, except that I'm just not set in stone over any type of motion tracking. Its what really, really killed the atmosphere of Ns1. Skulks could no longer stalk and ambush. In regards to LOS, that needs to be fixed. The fact that a marine can run into crevice, hit their map key, and see red enemy icons makes me RAGE hard. Scotty's idea might actually work if they got rid of the previous LOS minimap idea and JUST added the squad buff.
Overall tho if there had to be a squad buff, I liked the "spread the res to the squad" idea the best. If a whole squad pumps a fade full of lead, the whole squad should get res.
Personally, having the extra eyes and gun is a reward in itself. Most good players know not to rambo, and the noobs will learn eventually.
The biggest thing that splits marines up is running back to the armory to heal up and armor repair. If marines could support each other in that, you'd see them stick together more. I'd like to see a medic equipment option for marines as well. A medic backpack that allows marines to hand out medpacks at the cost of Pres perhaps. This could also alleviate the problem of the commander not having enough pres to drop medpacks himself in larger games. More players more medics.
I find it odd that at times aliens seem to work and stick together more (due to the gorge heal spray) than marines.
There needs to be incentive for marines to work in a squad, given you will be more successful by doing so.
yeah, allow commander sticky squad assignment, at least let the commander THINK he's in command.
<!--quoteo(post=1857725:date=Jul 2 2011, 07:13 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Jul 2 2011, 07:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857725"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I could use a line being drawn from each marine to their given waypoint in commander mode.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agreed
Marines are often split up due to having to replenish ammo/health, but that happens anyway as they get killed.
It may also reduce the need to setup a forward base with a power pack/armory/phase gate etc. Which is kind of a fun part of the game.
Having assigned squads rather than automatic squads will be easier for the comm to manage, which is already hard enough at times.
Perhaps another incentive would be a higher res reward for getting kills? Or the res you gain from getting a kill is divided among the squad members?
It might be enough for situations where the marines are getting owned and can no longer afford weapons.
Regardless, I always enjoyed the forced teamwork of NS1, if you went off an rambo'd on your own, you would certainly get owned.
So anything that further pushes teamwork is really good IMO.