As someone has said, there needs to be reasons to turn it on, and reasons to turn it off. Making it where you can have it on all the time and be comfortable, or even better off all the time, is not the way to go in my opinion. I like the current opacity, but of course open to adjustment. However, the focus of adjustment to the opacity should not be in order to make it where you leave it on all the time. The blinding effect of flashlights is a bad idea since the main use of the vision is for dark rooms so marines turning their flashlights on would be a direct counter so you'd end up always having it off in dark rooms which is silly. <b><u>Maybe have powered rooms/structures mess with it? The closer to some marine structure you are, it blurs(or something to that effect) your alien vision. </u></b> The electrical field emitted from the structures would somehow be interfering with the alien vision, or yeah, however you wanna explain it.
This would mean aliens basically have an advantage the further the marines get from their bases, and vice versa. Since that would be a disadvantage to always having it on, then some adjustments to the opacity could be made. I just really don't want to see it without its disadvantages.
Sometimes I want it on for clarity, other times I want it off for clarity. In the dark or in spore gas/hives/flamethrowers it's helpful as it lets you see targets easily, other times you want to see bullets landing and where the particles are going and whether marine flashlights are shining through the door.
It has good reasons to turn it on and off, leave it as is for now.
<!--quoteo(post=1853191:date=Jun 16 2011, 06:23 AM:name=w0dk4)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (w0dk4 @ Jun 16 2011, 06:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Could alien sight be made more usable with a simple fix of just overlaying the yellow/red layer only with like 50% opacity?
Would really increase awareness of your environment rather than seeing just yellow/red stuff. Also very important for determining if you are sitting in a shadow or bright light.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That looks amazing.
I think it'd be interesting if the opacity would increase with a darker environment, and decrease (great translucency) with a brighter environment.
Then... you would never even need it off (you could remove the option). Aliens would be differentiated from the marines even more.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I find the alien dark vision to be very useful for navigating and locating enemies, especially in the dark. However, it is not very useful when fighting marines around structures, as marine players are colored the same as marine structures, as well as alien ones.
<!--quoteo(post=1854078:date=Jun 17 2011, 07:17 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jun 17 2011, 07:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854078"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find the alien dark vision to be very useful for navigating and locating enemies, especially in the dark. However, it is not very useful when fighting marines around structures, as marine players are colored the same as marine structures, as well as alien ones.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes.. Different colors would be nice, perhaps orange for structures and red for marines?
If you're going to make changes to alien sight, change the colours of marines. It is far too hard to find marines when they're blueish against a grey bluish wall. Then you add in jumping, then you add in flame throwers, then you add in skulk bite cutting off camera.
Skulk is unplayable without alien infrared imo. I leave it on almost 24/7. The only time I'll turn it off is if I'm in the dark and I'm trying to ambush someone, just so my eyes don't glow, then I press F and launch at them. I don't even think our eyes should glow when it's like that. What do marines need flashlights for if they just have to shoot the glowing thing, yet skulks can't do ###### without it?
<!--quoteo(post=1853452:date=Jun 16 2011, 05:36 AM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Jun 16 2011, 05:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853452"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There should be a reason to turn it on, and a reason to turn it off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What if we changed the "Alien Vision" to "Hive Sight"?
When you switch to Alien Vision, any NEARBY entity that would show up as an icon on the Hivesight is rendered through geometry and is color-graded by it's Health Scalar (the % of total health they have).
Players then have the option to sacrifice their broader sense of awareness (a little information about everything across the map) that is typically provided to them in exchange for a more focused sense of awareness (more information about things nearby).
Players can then use Alien Vision like Scent of Fear, to prey on weaker targets first.
Since players with Alien Vision can't gauge the lighting levels, there is less of a trade-off and more incentive to use Alien Vision where they don't need to gauge light levels (a.k.a. when the lights are out). Just a coincidence that you'd exhibit more fear in darker areas? I think not!
Parasiting and spreading Infestation becomes even more of an essential tool for Alien Success, giving Skulks a more permanent and distinct Scouting role, and emphasizing the importance of Overlords (Alien Commanders) spreading Infestation (to provide more areas where Aliens can comfortably use Alien Vision (Hive Sight sounds better here, I think).
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
Here's a simple and quick fix, just like the one suggested by w0dk4:
Download: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?bxq4h95tiud27jj" target="_blank">Alien Vision Mod 1.1</a> with improved vision clarity Download: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?pxqq431wtman042" target="_blank">Alien Vision Mod</a>
How to install: 1. Extract the rar archive to your "Natural Selection 2" directory 2. Create a new shortcut to NS2.exe 3. Change the target of the shortcut to something similar to (including the quotation marks): "D:\Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2\NS2.exe" -game mod_alienvision 4. Run from the shortcut.
<!--quoteo(post=1853191:date=Jun 15 2011, 02:23 PM:name=w0dk4)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (w0dk4 @ Jun 15 2011, 02:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Could alien sight be made more usable with a simple fix of just overlaying the yellow/red layer only with like 50% opacity?
Would really increase awareness of your environment rather than seeing just yellow/red stuff. Also very important for determining if you are sitting in a shadow or bright light.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok, so you've just removed the downside of something?
ok, why not make a gun that fires bullets that arn't stopped by those pesky walls. or an extractor that can't be killed. because you know... why have weaknesses if it means you can lose.
Actually.. it looks at least from the old example that it probably brings back the whole distracting flame particles which I used Alien vision to ignore in the first place, so.. yeah I'll keep my current vision..
<!--quoteo(post=1857896:date=Jul 4 2011, 09:17 AM:name=Kurrine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kurrine @ Jul 4 2011, 09:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857896"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually.. it looks at least from the old example that it probably brings back the whole distracting flame particles which I used Alien vision to ignore in the first place, so.. yeah I'll keep my current vision..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gives me an idea to make this even more OP. Simply disable all flamethrower effects while it's on. Remember it's not "hax", it's simply "more usable". Wait is there a way to make flamethrower fire mostly transparent! Wow we can make this the most "usable" mod ever!!1
Anyone have a link to that video when Alien-Vision was being created. I'm almost certain that Flayra said something like he wanted it to have some sort of drawbacks so people didn't use it all the time...
<!--quoteo(post=1857839:date=Jul 4 2011, 01:13 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Jul 4 2011, 01:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so it can be used 100% of the time..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I hope so. Using an approach like this and removing the ability to toggle it would be good. The difference in (default) alien and marine vision will make the difference between aliens and marines even more pronounced (and yet it actually serves a purpose). It also just looks a lot better than bright opaque fluoro colours, since you can now see the texturing work. As Taxen0 said, he already uses the default alien vision mode 100% of the time. I doubt that's much of an exaggeration.
I already pretty much use it 100% time as well. Only to see if there is infestation or if Im in a shadow do I quickly turn it off.
I think a better drawback was is if the vision was temporary. A player would tap F to turn on alien vision, but it slowly fades back to normal vision over 5-10 seconds or so. The image shown in twiliteblue's post would be the in between as it fades back to normal. The drawback would be that the player would have to tap F every so often.
I think one of the reasons UWE doesn't want you to have it on 100% of the time is so that you can enjoy the graphics of the game. One of the biggest complaints for Arkham asylum (an otherwise awesome game) was that players spent most of their time in detective vision mode, which pretty much side stepped the beautiful graphics of the game.
Could just give it a limited "battery life". Long enough to last for a fight, and recharging fast enough that you can use it outside of combat and not need to worry overmuch...
<!--quoteo(post=1857862:date=Jul 4 2011, 02:06 AM:name=Taxen0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Taxen0 @ Jul 4 2011, 02:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857862"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I already use it 100% of the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT. Alien Vision makes it a hell of a lot easier to both maneuver and chew marines, with the only times I usually turn it off being when I'm trying to spot croach/lighting conditions.
Hive sight would be a toggle, its view would be much like the one depicted above but more thermals and less environment such as walls as to prevent semi wallhacking.
The downside to this would be that you have to remain perfectly still.. the plus side could be that the alien model's eyes close and therefore do not glow (allowing you to hide better)
This would allow for better ambushing, but with a bit of skill required :)
<!--quoteo(post=1858204:date=Jul 6 2011, 06:30 AM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jul 6 2011, 06:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think one of the reasons UWE doesn't want you to have it on 100% of the time is so that you can enjoy the graphics of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...which I believe is considered through the use of the translucent version.
<!--quoteo(post=1858376:date=Jul 6 2011, 11:37 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jul 6 2011, 11:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858376"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...which I believe is considered through the use of the translucent version.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Like shown in twiliteblue's image? While better than what we have now, that would still take away from the game's visuals.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1858377:date=Jul 6 2011, 08:43 AM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jul 6 2011, 08:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858377"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like shown in twiliteblue's image? While better than what we have now, that would still take away from the game's visuals.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about this? I lowered the effect even further, and it remains surprisingly effective.
<!--quoteo(post=1858467:date=Jul 6 2011, 08:43 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jul 6 2011, 08:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858467"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about this? I lowered the effect even further, and it remains surprisingly effective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have no doubt it is. I downloaded your mod and will use it. However, as long as there are outlines and highlights, it will have a TRON game feel and take something away from the visuals and atmosphere. I think its unavoidable. I personally wouldn't mind if alien sight ended up looking like you mod and I used it 100% of the time, but im not so sure about the devs.
Why are people so concerned about the asthetics and graphics?
I am sure casuals and new players would certainly enjoy the great looks of the game, but once people start playing this game seriously/competitively, they will care for a more gameplay effective alien sight over a on off for the sake of allowing people to see the game in its full form.
An easy example where people stop giving ###### about graphics is in SC2 where MANY players intentionally lower all the graphical options to the lowest to remove screen clutter as to focus on the game only.
<!--quoteo(post=1858500:date=Jul 7 2011, 01:19 AM:name=ktimekiller)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ktimekiller @ Jul 7 2011, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858500"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am sure casuals and new players would certainly enjoy the great looks of the game, but once people start playing this game seriously/competitively, they will care for a more gameplay effective alien sight over a on off for the sake of allowing people to see the game in its full form.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is predicated on the assumption that all casual and new players inevitably become serious/competitive players whose sole interest is perfecting their game, and/or that the opinions and valuations of the aesthetics/graphics of everyone else who isn't a competitive/serious player do not matter.
Comments
I like the current opacity, but of course open to adjustment. However, the focus of adjustment to the opacity should not be in order to make it where you leave it on all the time.
The blinding effect of flashlights is a bad idea since the main use of the vision is for dark rooms so marines turning their flashlights on would be a direct counter so you'd end up always having it off in dark rooms which is silly.
<b><u>Maybe have powered rooms/structures mess with it? The closer to some marine structure you are, it blurs(or something to that effect) your alien vision. </u></b> The electrical field emitted from the structures would somehow be interfering with the alien vision, or yeah, however you wanna explain it.
This would mean aliens basically have an advantage the further the marines get from their bases, and vice versa. Since that would be a disadvantage to always having it on, then some adjustments to the opacity could be made. I just really don't want to see it without its disadvantages.
combat I need all the detail in a scene.
However I find it extremely useful for traversing the map.
It makes tunnels fans etc. pop out to me much better.
I like the OP change it makes it a bit more subtle.
but I don't know if it makes too powerful too?
Sometimes I want it on for clarity, other times I want it off for clarity. In the dark or in spore gas/hives/flamethrowers it's helpful as it lets you see targets easily, other times you want to see bullets landing and where the particles are going and whether marine flashlights are shining through the door.
It has good reasons to turn it on and off, leave it as is for now.
Like this:
<img src="http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1061/ns2aliensight.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Would really increase awareness of your environment rather than seeing just yellow/red stuff. Also very important for determining if you are sitting in a shadow or bright light.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That looks amazing.
I think it'd be interesting if the opacity would increase with a darker environment, and decrease (great translucency) with a brighter environment.
Then... you would never even need it off (you could remove the option). Aliens would be differentiated from the marines even more.
The only time its ever off is if I want to place hydra/infestation with the gorge.
also, it helps your fps =)
yes.. Different colors would be nice, perhaps orange for structures and red for marines?
Skulk is unplayable without alien infrared imo. I leave it on almost 24/7. The only time I'll turn it off is if I'm in the dark and I'm trying to ambush someone, just so my eyes don't glow, then I press F and launch at them. I don't even think our eyes should glow when it's like that. What do marines need flashlights for if they just have to shoot the glowing thing, yet skulks can't do ###### without it?
What if we changed the "Alien Vision" to "Hive Sight"?
When you switch to Alien Vision, any NEARBY entity that would show up as an icon on the Hivesight is rendered through geometry and is color-graded by it's Health Scalar (the % of total health they have).
Players then have the option to sacrifice their broader sense of awareness (a little information about everything across the map) that is typically provided to them in exchange for a more focused sense of awareness (more information about things nearby).
Players can then use Alien Vision like Scent of Fear, to prey on weaker targets first.
Since players with Alien Vision can't gauge the lighting levels, there is less of a trade-off and more incentive to use Alien Vision where they don't need to gauge light levels (a.k.a. when the lights are out). Just a coincidence that you'd exhibit more fear in darker areas? I think not!
Parasiting and spreading Infestation becomes even more of an essential tool for Alien Success, giving Skulks a more permanent and distinct Scouting role, and emphasizing the importance of Overlords (Alien Commanders) spreading Infestation (to provide more areas where Aliens can comfortably use Alien Vision (Hive Sight sounds better here, I think).
Download: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?bxq4h95tiud27jj" target="_blank">Alien Vision Mod 1.1</a> with improved vision clarity
Download: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?pxqq431wtman042" target="_blank">Alien Vision Mod</a>
How to install:
1. Extract the rar archive to your "Natural Selection 2" directory
2. Create a new shortcut to NS2.exe
3. Change the target of the shortcut to something similar to (including the quotation marks): "D:\Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2\NS2.exe" -game mod_alienvision
4. Run from the shortcut.
<!--quoteo(post=1853191:date=Jun 15 2011, 02:23 PM:name=w0dk4)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (w0dk4 @ Jun 15 2011, 02:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Could alien sight be made more usable with a simple fix of just overlaying the yellow/red layer only with like 50% opacity?
Like this:
<img src="http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1061/ns2aliensight.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Would really increase awareness of your environment rather than seeing just yellow/red stuff. Also very important for determining if you are sitting in a shadow or bright light.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok, why not make a gun that fires bullets that arn't stopped by those pesky walls. or an extractor that can't be killed. because you know... why have weaknesses if it means you can lose.
Gives me an idea to make this even more OP. Simply disable all flamethrower effects while it's on. Remember it's not "hax", it's simply "more usable". Wait is there a way to make flamethrower fire mostly transparent! Wow we can make this the most "usable" mod ever!!1
Anyone have a link to that video when Alien-Vision was being created. I'm almost certain that Flayra said something like he wanted it to have some sort of drawbacks so people didn't use it all the time...
I hope so. Using an approach like this and removing the ability to toggle it would be good. The difference in (default) alien and marine vision will make the difference between aliens and marines even more pronounced (and yet it actually serves a purpose). It also just looks a lot better than bright opaque fluoro colours, since you can now see the texturing work. As Taxen0 said, he already uses the default alien vision mode 100% of the time. I doubt that's much of an exaggeration.
I think a better drawback was is if the vision was temporary. A player would tap F to turn on alien vision, but it slowly fades back to normal vision over 5-10 seconds or so. The image shown in twiliteblue's post would be the in between as it fades back to normal. The drawback would be that the player would have to tap F every so often.
I think one of the reasons UWE doesn't want you to have it on 100% of the time is so that you can enjoy the graphics of the game. One of the biggest complaints for Arkham asylum (an otherwise awesome game) was that players spent most of their time in detective vision mode, which pretty much side stepped the beautiful graphics of the game.
QFT. Alien Vision makes it a hell of a lot easier to both maneuver and chew marines, with the only times I usually turn it off being when I'm trying to spot croach/lighting conditions.
Hive sight would be a toggle, its view would be much like the one depicted above but more thermals and less environment such as walls as to prevent semi wallhacking.
The downside to this would be that you have to remain perfectly still.. the plus side could be that the alien model's eyes close and therefore do not glow (allowing you to hide better)
This would allow for better ambushing, but with a bit of skill required :)
...which I believe is considered through the use of the translucent version.
Like shown in twiliteblue's image? While better than what we have now, that would still take away from the game's visuals.
How about this? I lowered the effect even further, and it remains surprisingly effective.
<img src="http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7647/ns22011070711375159.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Download: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?bxq4h95tiud27jj" target="_blank">Alien Vision Mod 1.1</a>
I have no doubt it is. I downloaded your mod and will use it. However, as long as there are outlines and highlights, it will have a TRON game feel and take something away from the visuals and atmosphere. I think its unavoidable. I personally wouldn't mind if alien sight ended up looking like you mod and I used it 100% of the time, but im not so sure about the devs.
I am sure casuals and new players would certainly enjoy the great looks of the game, but once people start playing this game seriously/competitively, they will care for a more gameplay effective alien sight over a on off for the sake of allowing people to see the game in its full form.
An easy example where people stop giving ###### about graphics is in SC2 where MANY players intentionally lower all the graphical options to the lowest to remove screen clutter as to focus on the game only.
This is predicated on the assumption that all casual and new players inevitably become serious/competitive players whose sole interest is perfecting their game, and/or that the opinions and valuations of the aesthetics/graphics of everyone else who isn't a competitive/serious player do not matter.
This is not true.