Balance for Fade
Iacto
Join Date: 2010-11-23 Member: 75209Members
Join Date: 2010-11-23 Member: 75209Members
Ok, so first off let me start by saying I'm a really good fade. I'm loving the hit and run nature of it, and as long as you're sensible and don't ignore your health and adrenaline, you'll kill a lot of people. I've just come out of a game with 43-3 KDR, and none of those deaths was with a fade. Needless to say, after about 10 minutes of this, the entire enemy team left. Now they didn't have many FTs, or probably much personal res, but it was quite silly how easy it was to kill them all repeatedly.
So my suggestion is to slightly raise the adrenaline cost for fade's swipe. Not by much, say it's 10 now, only looking to up it to 11. But it would just take the edge off the fade being this incredible killing machine.
Thoughts?
So my suggestion is to slightly raise the adrenaline cost for fade's swipe. Not by much, say it's 10 now, only looking to up it to 11. But it would just take the edge off the fade being this incredible killing machine.
Thoughts?
Comments
Killing noobs does not make the respective class OP. :)
Are you in the front lines or picking off stray marines who scout?
Are you backed up by decent support/hlth?
Lots of factors, maybe you're just awesome :)
Dunno if a more class based approach wouldnt be cool on the marine side too instead just weapons and jp, ha tech.
but now....
I think it was a good decision! The games are now more tactical and skulks are still required in endgame to destroy structures or restowers.
The fade is fine now as it is, I think.
(unless it is on fire.. thats annoying! But that's what the flamer is intendet for.)
Same here, they are fine how they are. When I play as marine I kill them quite often, just get flamethrowers :P.
Totally agree with this statement, remember T3's not even introduced yet and once it is these may not even be issues anymore ^^.
ps fades rule, dont change them
making going around corners and rooms not possible due to requirement of LOS before blinking.
basically its air control, its not there - other than strafe.
It makes it incredibly easy while fades eat your team for the rest of the aliens to control the rest of the map. I find against a good alien team with fades, flamers only delay and force them to retreat (thats if you can afford to get flamers before they decide to rush you). The fades can just keep returning to attack untill they eventually win. A fade has to be very careless or extreamly unlucky to be pinned down and killed and has little to do with the marine players skill... Although I have not played with the new patch so perhaps nades that work will have balanced this...
I really feel forced to spam sentrys covering all angles just to hold any area of the map. Which annoys aliens players but is necessary. Marines have to have a great early game and stop the second hive, but I think its generally accepted aliens are stronger early game. Even so its unusual for aliens not to be able to sneak in a second one at some point.
<b>At the same time if fades were not so powerfull I have no idea how Aliens can win until Onos is playable.</b>
While I am moaning on the forums I also think as marine commander the Skulk in the hands of a good player is slightly to fast (only very slightly) and takes map contol just a bit to quickly (maybe).
Are you in the front lines or picking off stray marines who scout?
Are you backed up by decent support/hlth?
Lots of factors, maybe you're just awesome :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, normally I attack groups of three or four marines, you can always take out at least one (even if they have a flamethrower) then get to the nearest crag and do it again. You will almost always be able to get back there before the respawns, so just whittle them down (which is a lot of fun). Often I'm not backed up by support, but when I am, I usually engage for longer.
A few of them were just running in one-by-one, and I think this game was more about the lack of flamethrowers. I love playing the fade, but at the current state of the game, it doesn't really fit, as it's a bit too good compared to top-tier marine stuff. Guess I'll just wait until tier 3 before I make up my mind
...
Don't.
I'm also one of those fade players that often get 40-5 kdr with a fade, but even i cant tell already, if adrenaline values are left as is, JP's are gonna be REALLY tough as a fade, let alone two jet packers, one shotgun one flamer.
That combo IS gonna be a complete fade killer, especially in big open spaces like vent or crossroads on summit, no way i could take out two jetpackers (at least not EASILY) like that, let alone if they have a scan showing exactly where i am all the time.
Even on his own a shotgunner jetpack is gonna give most decent fades a run for their money, they simply wont have enough adrenaline to chase him all over the ceiling for too long. 50 res marine vs 50 res fade , both with an equal chance of killing each other seems fair to me.
TEAMWORK and PRECISION shooting / timing is the key to taking a fade down with basic marine weapons, just as it will be for a group of skulks taking a jetpack. Marines can right now insta kill a fade if three shotgunners work well together, had it happen multiple times to me already, (blink blink blink, and then 3 shotgun blasts in less than a second and im dead lol), just like 3 skulks ambushing a passing jetpacker should time their ambush and bite/announce their presence as close to each other as possible.
OR marines can have a flamer and aliens have a lerk in the mix = a slower but more controlled take down of each.
As far as i can tell balance is already fairly good for marine tech that isn't even ingame yet.
My point is this: If at this point in the game it is a stalemate that means balance is near perfect.
The next tech tier means something to each team and you must strive for it. No team is inherently better which forces both to push for progression and expansion.
Side note: Saying a class is OP because you were in a server filled with 3-5 players that you dominated isn't valid. I load bots on my personal server and i destroy they with the axe. Do i post here it is OP? (an extreme i know but just as ridiculous to me).
The game needs to be balanced enough so that ppl will find it worth their while to play it. That in turn will lead to better reports about bugs and features in the game, leading to a better game faster.
Also, rough balancing can be fairly easy to do. Like changing
Lerk.kSporeDamage = 14
to
Lerk.kSporeDamage = 7
Doesn't take long, but helps the morale of Marine players immensly! :)
"3 tier is not implemented"?
-If it would be implemented you must fight the fade before it anyway. Also the 3 tier will be needed against the onos.
"you just need a flame thrower and 2 shotguns"?
-SO marines need half of they team to force 1 fade to retreat? It is OK?
easily reachable 40-5 ratio kills the resource system of the game. Cause now a fade plays all the game with 60 personal resources, so he dont need any restower, nothing while the 10 times killed marine will have no personal resources through the game.
It is just me or the fade is now invisible right after leaving the blink for a moment. In that moment he can already attack but the marines cant shoot yet. Maybe that is the only problem.
+100
Also, the blink sound gets really annoying sometimes, it doesn't stop correctly it seems, did anybody noticed that as well ?
Same for me with that almost never ending blink sound, getting worse when low on health and only stops once back up to Armor regeneration
"3 tier is not implemented"?
-If it would be implemented you must fight the fade before it anyway. Also the 3 tier will be needed against the onos.
"you just need a flame thrower and 2 shotguns"?
-SO marines need half of they team to force 1 fade to retreat? It is OK?
easily reachable 40-5 ratio kills the resource system of the game. Cause now a fade plays all the game with 60 personal resources, so he dont need any restower, nothing while the 10 times killed marine will have no personal resources through the game.
It is just me or the fade is now invisible right after leaving the blink for a moment. In that moment he can already attack but the marines cant shoot yet. Maybe that is the only problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines have always needed and always will need teamwork. I love that a fade can rock a single marine 90% of the time. That is how it SHOULD be.
And as i said above, these 40-5 kill ratios are irrelevant. Skill of the team, upgrades, and strategy isnt taken into account. Say there is a horrible team with a horrible comm that doesnt bother making an armory and he/she tells the team to assault a hive ignoring all aliens. There are so many factors that your argument is ridiculous.
On another note i do agree it is hard as hell "for me" to track fade movement. They seem invisible 90% of the time unless they are killing me =)
<b>"The game needs to be balanced enough so that ppl will find it worth their while to play it. That in turn will lead to better reports about bugs and features in the game, leading to a better game faster."</b>
Agreed, but not to the extent it has been fretted over. Get it playable and leave it. Not change .5 here and .2345 here and Oh this need a 1.765555555 reduction. Gets to be a little much when things will be tweaked again when everything is in the game and long after.
If you could attack a retreating fade, they would become instantly useless. And if they're on fire, they can still be damaged
I agree. If you have the skill to predict/guess where the fade is in flight without seeing it, you should be able to damage it if you fire there. That will NOT make the fade useless as the poster above says. Good fades routinely go on 20/1 or better K/D streaks now, so nerfing them a bit is fine.
It would also make fade air controls worth using. Right now, it seems fairly pointless to blink in anything but a straight line. If you could get damaged while blinking, it'd make dodging fire in blink with air control useful.
At times he blinked in against 5 marines with 2+ flamethrowers, killed a couple of us and then just blinked out, they're ridiculous.
Now take a good skulk player. He'll go in, take out a marine or two, get shot up, respawn, repeat. He'll obviously have a much higher death ratio than the fade, but his effectiveness over time might not be drastically different from the fade's.
Think of the Sniper class in some more common FPS and how they usually have ridiculous K/D ratios. I think the perceived problem might be of the same nature. Of course, it's extremely annoying to get taken out by the same player over and over again and feeling like there's little you can do, but that's another question entirely.
Now the problem to me is that a single unit could go against 5 well equipped marines and survive. This, however, doesn't take player skill into account. I've had experiences where I, a rather mediocre player, and someone whom I could only call well-above-average (great, perhaps) managed to fend off two fades using only our shotguns. Does that make fades underpowered? These anecdotal arguments can usually be turned on their heads by another, equally anecdotal, opposing argument and are pretty much worthless.
I'm not saying that there isn't a problem. I haven't played enough matches with the current fade implementation to be a fair judge of that, but staring ourselves blind at K/D ratios will get us nowhere in a game with wildly diverse classes. That would, for example, make the Gorge who heals his mates and structures, builds defenses around the map and fixes up the cyst chain with a K/D ratio of 1:10 horribly underpowered.
We all know better than that.