<!--quoteo(post=1868138:date=Aug 10 2011, 01:08 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 10 2011, 01:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868138"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bilebomb needs to hurt MACs as well as ARCs. Assembling a mass of 10+ MACs is pretty much unstoppable. Aliens can't do this back to marines as 10+ drifters can be killed by a single grenade, whereas each individual MAC must be targeted by aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Once MAC stacking is fixed, it will nerf MACs. Massing a large group will lose it's benefit, and repairing will be limited to how many MACs can surround a structure.
As others have said, Beta, Beta, Beta! Its a painful process and I can identify that it can sometimes be frustrating and I realize that many people feel a little bit cheated or ripped off simply because they have already paid for this game and are already expecting a finished product for their hard earned money (or Mommy and Daddies money, I don't judge). Please stop whining, you aren't helping the situation nor community and please understand that things will be fixed in time, let me say again. IN TIME! Patience is required in a long grueling beta for any game.
These are the facts gentlemen, this is a 5 Man team, 5 people! Think about that for a second and they are trying to please everyone while dealing with all the whiny little brats who think they are entitled to a perfectly playable game in an unfinished state (not naming names) and literally have no idea how hard game development is nor even what the meaning of what a Beta is!. Also realize that most modern day triple AAA titles have teams of at least 50! This is a group of fantastic individuals who are not only building a custom built game engine (that already looks magnificent in its unfinished state) as well as building the whole game right along side of it. This is a massive undertaking and is something that's truly admirable as well as epically fun to watch come together.
I can tell you this, when I personally put my hard earned money for the Alpha/beta over a year ago, I did so not just because I would get early access, I did so because I fully believed in what these guys were trying to do along with there new vision of Natural Selection. I did so knowing that what I was ultimately doing was supporting a team that was truly committed to making the best game they can, while also enjoying everything they do! I also knew that what I was doing was helping keep there doors open and actually allow the game to get to a finished state as well as put food on the table for their families, cause... well... they gots to eats and gets paid! I love being a part of this game, even if its just a small part. Its a great feeling!
Ultimately, I can say with utmost confidence that faith has not wavered in the slightest as I am enjoying watching all their hard work come together and am having a blast playing the Beta with both the highs and the lows and can't wait to see the finished product. I do have one request, please do not bring back NS combat! Keep the natural uhhhh... Natural Selection going :).
Sorry for my long winded post!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This.
I bought the game a year ago, got my shiny armour and have only managed to play it for a day on a friends beastly computer which even then battled to play smoothly. BUT I loved it, and was so stoked to see how far NS has come from when I played it as a wee lad back in the day!
If I had to pay again when the game was released I would do it in a heartbeat, it will definitely be worth it and the price to see this thing developed is well worth it and a privilege that some don't seem to appreciate, most other games are just in development and then they come out and you play and wish "man if only they had tweaked this a little more the whole game would be seamless" or something along those lines.
No regrets here :) As cory says, if its frustrating you, take a break and come back after a few more releases. No one is going to acknowledge your feedback, even if there is merit in them if the message is contained in a package of spite, whine and frustration.
Top job UWE, the progress has been fantastic and I for one can say that playability has definitely improved from months ago. I haven't had a chance to play 184 but the patch looks good, and I'm sure tweaking will continue on balance. I'm looking forward to onos though... just sayin.
Great job guys. Your transparency really makes me feel like i'm helping, in more ways that just financially. I love staying up to date with what you guys are doing!
<!--quoteo(post=1867528:date=Aug 8 2011, 08:48 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Aug 8 2011, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1867528"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please cry more...the skulk get half of his health...how is this barely? The marines got the obs against cloaking skulks...also flamethrower and grenade launcher.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he got half of its armor , not its health ... read before trolling!
<!--quoteo(post=1868189:date=Aug 11 2011, 05:00 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Aug 11 2011, 05:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868189"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think a combination of the lower skulk armor, jerky movement fix, and longer egg spawn time (that really bottlenecks aliens with only 1 hive) has made it easier for marines. One thing that does bother me a little is when an egg spawns for an afk person. It'd be nice if there was something like a 3-5s timer that if the person who is currently in control of an egg doesn't spawn, they lose the egg to the next person in the queue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I still believe the main cause for the shift is the cyst changes which significantly reduced alien economy = slower 2nd hive, upgrades and general alien game pacing. Alien's are running on 2 extractors for most of the early game instead of 3 as it was in previous builds. 5 lower skulk armour is only 1 less bullet which really isnt alot if your already ambushing.
+1 on the NS2 love. there have been one or two moments that seemed like a step back between patches that made me miss what had come before. but there is a great game coming together here, I know you guys will see it become amazing.
agree with the sentiment that the lerk needs buffing, something is missing since we lost the old sniper monster.
think the fade is undoubtedly a game changer at the moment, if the marines let that second hive go up, then its a damn skilled/ lucky marine team that pull it back. but im not sure its fix will come before all the other tech is in the game, so I just enjoy the near invincibility from the aliens perspective while I can.
I feel sorry for UWE, I really do. I get the feeling that no matter what they do, they will be criticised. I think its fair to say that there will never be a time when everyone who owns the game will be happy with it 100%. Maybe its because I see it through an older set of eyes (46) and have other interests beyond games but the time to dissect the game is after it has been released and not during what is essentially a testing period prior to a proper release. I believe we all knew when we paid our cash that the game was a beta? We paid to support and help develop the game and as such should cut the devs some slack. They certainly have thicker skins than me as I would be having sleepless nights reading some of these posts. Lets face it, who cant have respect for such as small team that has come so far on an engine they made themselves?! When I first paid my money all you could do was spawn as a marine with the LMG and walk around the test level!!
I am enjoying 184 and yes, its not perfect but I have no doubt that on release it will be one of, if not the best, online MP game available in my eyes. My opinion is that if you are not enjoying it and/or getting frustrated, just stop playing for a few builds and come back to it and try it again.
Right after getting that off my chest here are my thoughts on 184 lol. It feels on the whole more balanced and its good to see the marines winning more games. I see complaints about stalemates which to me suggests the balance is better although, my opinion is that we shouldn't worry too much about balance atm. End game things such as the Onos and Exoskeletons are still to come. Adding new stuff and especially optimisations for frame rates and server performance/crash issues etc to me should be priority. I'm getting a smoother performance generally but am getting lags spikes in certain areas, for example the corridor between marine base a and crossroads as you pass Vent which is worse than before. Players shouldn't read too much into the stats either as the player base is very wide skill wise and teams can be very uneven and with first time commanders etc the stats just don't give a realistic overview. one example is a game I played as alien last night. Aliens were getting hammered and we had one hive left. Marines both side of the hive were pouring in nades and it should have been a certain defeat. But myself and another Skulk managed to get past them and get to the Marine base. I quickly took out the Obs/Beacon and then the Power Node, CC and won the game. We really shouldn't have. Maybe the Marine comm was too engrossed to use the Beacon or didn't know how too but this shows how you just cant judge the balance of the game based on a few hundred matches on public servers.
The Marines feels less vulnerable especially if in a squad with a good variety of weapons and taking down hives is great fun as the weapons feel a bit more powerful. Lots of nade launchers making the Gorges job tougher bless em lol. Very easy to clear Hydras now which is good if your a Marine but heartbreaking for a Gorge. Nades too powerful? maybe a tad and also a touch cheap too?
Aliens could do with a lot more of a different feel between life forms as they all need to be close quarters. I still would like the Lerk spores to have a longer range, maybe 30m to help in supporting which should be their role and only resorting to the spikes in self defence and to take down structures. Skulk feels good and although the Fade is one of the main causes for complaint atm I feel its fine. A good player can still take out those lone marines or pairs but more than that and its not so easy now especially when Flame throwers appear. And lets face it the fade spends 70% of its time at a Hive or Crag getting its energy back. I have seen lots of Fades die over the last two nights and its not the beast it was. The only thing I would like to see is a cap on personal res as a Fade who has been alive for a while is not that bothered about dying as he just goes Fade again and again.
This is getting long so will stop now lol. Just my thoughts and I had loads more but going out for beer now.
<u><b>Movement need to be fixed</b></u> The marine movement looks very wrong, also the hit detection of buildings.
As Gorge i get stuck a lot by just jump over or move to a crag or other structures.
As marine if you sometimes just walk against your teammate you fly up and walk on his head. The worst bug is, if you play marine and crouch + jump, you can barely hit on a server.
Played 4 or 5 (can't remember it was for about 5 hours) long games yesterday on Chicago Server, massively long stalemate, got over 100 kills as Alien, 25 Deaths.
I really love the new skulk, I can still ambush people, even though I have less health I can still kill 2 marines regularly, but it helps give them a chance, you just need to adapt. However it seems that in this build that there is a delay with the skulk when switching surfaces, it doesn't feel nearly as smooth in previous builds.
Lerk - As was said, needs buff big time.
Fade - 80 of those 100 kills last game were a result of the fade. Nuff said, I can agree it needs a little bit of a nerf in a couple areas. But it should still be able to take on 3 Marines with some skill.
Onos - Hes currently not very useful in the current build, needs moar everything.
Marines - Grenade Launcher faster reload is perfect.
Shades have made arcs kind of useless until marines figure out that as long a shade is standing, all surrounding structures are invisible to the marine commander and the arc, even if he scans the area.
This is why aliens have such an easy time expanding in this build despite building placement errors. People don't shoot down the shades in time for the arcs to do their thing, and the fruitless arc investment halts marine expansion.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1868400:date=Aug 11 2011, 10:29 AM:name=Salraine_Chi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Salraine_Chi @ Aug 11 2011, 10:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Players shouldn't read too much into the stats either as the player base is very wide skill wise and teams can be very uneven and with first time commanders etc the stats just don't give a realistic overview. one example is a game I played as alien last night. Aliens were getting hammered and we had one hive left. Marines both side of the hive were pouring in nades and it should have been a certain defeat. But myself and another Skulk managed to get past them and get to the Marine base. I quickly took out the Obs/Beacon and then the Power Node, CC and won the game. We really shouldn't have. Maybe the Marine comm was too engrossed to use the Beacon or didn't know how too but this shows how you just cant judge the balance of the game based on a few hundred matches on public servers.
The Marines feels less vulnerable especially if in a squad with a good variety of weapons and taking down hives is great fun as the weapons feel a bit more powerful. Lots of nade launchers making the Gorges job tougher bless em lol. Very easy to clear Hydras now which is good if your a Marine but heartbreaking for a Gorge. Nades too powerful? maybe a tad and also a touch cheap too?
Aliens could do with a lot more of a different feel between life forms as they all need to be close quarters. I still would like the Lerk spores to have a longer range, maybe 30m to help in supporting which should be their role and only resorting to the spikes in self defence and to take down structures. Skulk feels good and although the Fade is one of the main causes for complaint atm I feel its fine. A good player can still take out those lone marines or pairs but more than that and its not so easy now especially when Flame throwers appear. And lets face it the fade spends 70% of its time at a Hive or Crag getting its energy back. I have seen lots of Fades die over the last two nights and its not the beast it was. The only thing I would like to see is a cap on personal res as a Fade who has been alive for a while is not that bothered about dying as he just goes Fade again and again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fan-tastic analysis there, Salraine_Chi! UWE deserves more fans like you, and less crying hound dog "fans".
I agree that Grenades feel a little too powerful now. Perhaps the damage could be toned down, since they're quite accurate against players.
<!--quoteo(post=1868453:date=Aug 12 2011, 01:10 AM:name=kaffaljidhma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kaffaljidhma @ Aug 12 2011, 01:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Shades have made arcs kind of useless until marines figure out that as long a shade is standing, all surrounding structures are invisible to the marine commander and the arc, even if he scans the area.
This is why aliens have such an easy time expanding in this build despite building placement errors. People don't shoot down the shades in time for the arcs to do their thing, and the fruitless arc investment halts marine expansion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I like the fact that shade counter the arcs/scans. otherwise it's almost impossible to get a good defence on most map.
the marines just have to learn to kill the shades, or the commander have to communicate more and let them know that the arcs are ready to fire.
When can we see THE patch that will make NS2 run smoothly and be fast paced like NS1? Or is it already optimized enough in these smaller patches(dobut it)?
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1868497:date=Aug 12 2011, 10:45 AM:name=Onozki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onozki @ Aug 12 2011, 10:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868497"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When can we see THE patch that will make NS2 run smoothly and be fast paced like NS1? Or is it already optimized enough in these smaller patches(dobut it)?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most patches improve performance (mostly server side the last patches), so i'm not sure if there will be one big patch making it perfectly smooth, but i expect it to be more a gradual progress.
I think the level changes in summit are what caused the drop in performance. I had to work out of DC as a commander, and every time I left the station near those new computer banks, the server dropped to like 1 tickrate.
<!--quoteo(post=1868453:date=Aug 11 2011, 09:10 PM:name=kaffaljidhma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kaffaljidhma @ Aug 11 2011, 09:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Shades have made arcs kind of useless until marines figure out that as long a shade is standing, all surrounding structures are invisible to the marine commander and the arc, even if he scans the area.
This is why aliens have such an easy time expanding in this build despite building placement errors. People don't shoot down the shades in time for the arcs to do their thing, and the fruitless arc investment halts marine expansion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The really anoying problem is, that Marine scan does not disable shade efect, as shade do it almost sconstantly... marines are unable to siedge them...
We just played one game, where who or three shades nicely cower all other buildings and alien players from Radar's sweep... and it was impossible to siedge them :(\
<!--quoteo(post=1868285:date=Aug 11 2011, 07:23 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Aug 11 2011, 07:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868285"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still believe the main cause for the shift is the cyst changes which significantly reduced alien economy = slower 2nd hive, upgrades and general alien game pacing. Alien's are running on 2 extractors for most of the early game instead of 3 as it was in previous builds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Perhaps if we increased the starting hive energy, and reduced energy regeneration rate to compensate?
Is the cloak going to be like a predator style effect eventually? Where you can see a blurry outline if you look closely, ala hidden:source. As it is right now, it can be really frustrating playing as a marine because there is no possible way to tell if a skulk is cloaked without shooting everywhere and hoping to hit it.
Probably not. It was sorta like that in NS1, and people used various graphic card tricks to make 95% invisible very easy to see. Ultimately the only solution was to not render cloaked aliens at all.
I definitely don't think it'd be predator style, that'd make it rather useless, 100% cloak not rendering the aliens at all is the way to go for a proper cloak.
Cloak isn't as powerful in NS2 because aliens move extremely slowly when cloaked, much slower than the normal walking speed.
What they do need to add is an effect when aliens' cloak activiates and deactivated that is visible to marines. Playing as a marine I couldn't tell when an alien was cloaking and when it was lag/performance problems.
<!--quoteo(post=1868710:date=Aug 13 2011, 02:52 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Aug 13 2011, 02:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868710"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is the cloak going to be like a predator style effect eventually? Where you can see a blurry outline if you look closely, ala hidden:source. As it is right now, it can be really frustrating playing as a marine because there is no possible way to tell if a skulk is cloaked without shooting everywhere and hoping to hit it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, we are planning on having a shader effect on the cloaked aliens, where it applies their surroundings to the surface of their model. So, they won't be completely invisible, but they will blend in really well and be hard to spot.
PLEASE !!!! Give us a fix!! I thing it´s unplayabal in the moment. the balance is very bad. 3-4 Turrents und 3 Mariens against 1 Fade and the fade wins! There was no chance to kill the fade. The fade and the Skulk are very overpowerd.
In the moment the mariens are not strong enough too hold more than the RT in the Mainbase. It takes to long to update the wapons or armor. after 5 min. the first fade is running around the map but the mariens has just the normal MG or Shotgun.
<!--quoteo(post=1868787:date=Aug 13 2011, 05:20 PM:name=Walhalla)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Walhalla @ Aug 13 2011, 05:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868787"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PLEASE !!!! Give us a fix!! I thing it´s unplayabal in the moment. the balance is very bad. 3-4 Turrents und 3 Mariens against 1 Fade and the fade wins! There was no chance to kill the fade. The fade and the Skulk are very overpowerd.
In the moment the mariens are not strong enough too hold more than the RT in the Mainbase. It takes to long to update the wapons or armor. after 5 min. the first fade is running around the map but the mariens has just the normal MG or Shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yet marines win 33% of games, so you're really exaggerating <a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=184" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...ats?version=184</a>
Anyway, devs can't give us a patch that will solve everything in one go.
I think Fade is slightly OP, but not the skulk, who dies very quickly from the basic rifle, and dies basically instantly from shotgun, GL, and flamer. The problems for that issue lie elsewhere in performance/servers/detection or whatever. Both sides have things which are too powerful, from aliens point of view the GL and flamer are ridiculously over powered and there is nothing on the alien side that can do what they do.
Turrets should be more powerful, more accurate and more expensive. But remember what do aliens have to defend their base? Super fragile hydras that go pop in one grenade hit? Whips that marines can always avoid?
Overall there is a lot right now that makes gameplay frustrating, and makes the player feel useless at times.
<!--quoteo(post=1868783:date=Aug 13 2011, 05:51 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 13 2011, 05:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868783"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, we are planning on having a shader effect on the cloaked aliens, where it applies their surroundings to the surface of their model. So, they won't be completely invisible, but they will blend in really well and be hard to spot.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you planning to combine this with transparency? Keep in mind that cloaked aliens in NS1 were almost completely transparent when walking (what was the %?), but that was often enough to spot them. I imagine a shader that changes the skin when moving would stick out even more.
<!--quoteo(post=1868787:date=Aug 13 2011, 05:20 PM:name=Walhalla)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Walhalla @ Aug 13 2011, 05:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868787"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PLEASE !!!! Give us a fix!! I thing it´s unplayabal in the moment. the balance is very bad. 3-4 Turrents und 3 Mariens against 1 Fade and the fade wins! There was no chance to kill the fade. The fade and the Skulk are very overpowerd.
In the moment the mariens are not strong enough too hold more than the RT in the Mainbase. It takes to long to update the wapons or armor. after 5 min. the first fade is running around the map but the mariens has just the normal MG or Shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bul.... If 3 Marines a 3 Turrets can't kill a Fade the rines must have bad FPS or a bad Aim. I played 7 rounds and 6 of it as Marine and we won 6 times. As I said in a other thread use the GL to kill fleeing Fades! It is really easy to kill Fades now. And they HP will be reduced to 200hp in the next build.
Comments
Once MAC stacking is fixed, it will nerf MACs.
Massing a large group will lose it's benefit, and repairing will be limited to how many MACs can surround a structure.
Back to the impact of the new build on balance, the marine victories are slowly creeping up...
Beta 184
Marine Wins: 163 (34.75%)
Alien Wins: 306 (65.25%)
As others have said, Beta, Beta, Beta! Its a painful process and I can identify that it can sometimes be frustrating and I realize that many people feel a little bit cheated or ripped off simply because they have already paid for this game and are already expecting a finished product for their hard earned money (or Mommy and Daddies money, I don't judge). Please stop whining, you aren't helping the situation nor community and please understand that things will be fixed in time, let me say again. IN TIME! Patience is required in a long grueling beta for any game.
These are the facts gentlemen, this is a 5 Man team, 5 people! Think about that for a second and they are trying to please everyone while dealing with all the whiny little brats who think they are entitled to a perfectly playable game in an unfinished state (not naming names) and literally have no idea how hard game development is nor even what the meaning of what a Beta is!. Also realize that most modern day triple AAA titles have teams of at least 50! This is a group of fantastic individuals who are not only building a custom built game engine (that already looks magnificent in its unfinished state) as well as building the whole game right along side of it. This is a massive undertaking and is something that's truly admirable as well as epically fun to watch come together.
I can tell you this, when I personally put my hard earned money for the Alpha/beta over a year ago, I did so not just because I would get early access, I did so because I fully believed in what these guys were trying to do along with there new vision of Natural Selection. I did so knowing that what I was ultimately doing was supporting a team that was truly committed to making the best game they can, while also enjoying everything they do! I also knew that what I was doing was helping keep there doors open and actually allow the game to get to a finished state as well as put food on the table for their families, cause... well... they gots to eats and gets paid! I love being a part of this game, even if its just a small part. Its a great feeling!
Ultimately, I can say with utmost confidence that faith has not wavered in the slightest as I am enjoying watching all their hard work come together and am having a blast playing the Beta with both the highs and the lows and can't wait to see the finished product. I do have one request, please do not bring back NS combat! Keep the natural uhhhh... Natural Selection going :).
Sorry for my long winded post!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This.
I bought the game a year ago, got my shiny armour and have only managed to play it for a day on a friends beastly computer which even then battled to play smoothly. BUT I loved it, and was so stoked to see how far NS has come from when I played it as a wee lad back in the day!
If I had to pay again when the game was released I would do it in a heartbeat, it will definitely be worth it and the price to see this thing developed is well worth it and a privilege that some don't seem to appreciate, most other games are just in development and then they come out and you play and wish "man if only they had tweaked this a little more the whole game would be seamless" or something along those lines.
No regrets here :) As cory says, if its frustrating you, take a break and come back after a few more releases. No one is going to acknowledge your feedback, even if there is merit in them if the message is contained in a package of spite, whine and frustration.
Top job UWE, the progress has been fantastic and I for one can say that playability has definitely improved from months ago. I haven't had a chance to play 184 but the patch looks good, and I'm sure tweaking will continue on balance. I'm looking forward to onos though... just sayin.
The marines got the obs against cloaking skulks...also flamethrower and grenade launcher.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he got half of its armor , not its health ... read before trolling!
I still believe the main cause for the shift is the cyst changes which significantly reduced alien economy = slower 2nd hive, upgrades and general alien game pacing. Alien's are running on 2 extractors for most of the early game instead of 3 as it was in previous builds. 5 lower skulk armour is only 1 less bullet which really isnt alot if your already ambushing.
there have been one or two moments that seemed like a step back between patches that made me miss what had come before.
but there is a great game coming together here, I know you guys will see it become amazing.
agree with the sentiment that the lerk needs buffing, something is missing since we lost the old sniper monster.
think the fade is undoubtedly a game changer at the moment, if the marines let that second hive go up, then its a damn skilled/ lucky marine team that pull it back. but im not sure its fix will come before all the other tech is in the game, so I just enjoy the near invincibility from the aliens perspective while I can.
keep up the good work.
I am enjoying 184 and yes, its not perfect but I have no doubt that on release it will be one of, if not the best, online MP game available in my eyes. My opinion is that if you are not enjoying it and/or getting frustrated, just stop playing for a few builds and come back to it and try it again.
Right after getting that off my chest here are my thoughts on 184 lol. It feels on the whole more balanced and its good to see the marines winning more games. I see complaints about stalemates which to me suggests the balance is better although, my opinion is that we shouldn't worry too much about balance atm. End game things such as the Onos and Exoskeletons are still to come. Adding new stuff and especially optimisations for frame rates and server performance/crash issues etc to me should be priority. I'm getting a smoother performance generally but am getting lags spikes in certain areas, for example the corridor between marine base a and crossroads as you pass Vent which is worse than before. Players shouldn't read too much into the stats either as the player base is very wide skill wise and teams can be very uneven and with first time commanders etc the stats just don't give a realistic overview. one example is a game I played as alien last night. Aliens were getting hammered and we had one hive left. Marines both side of the hive were pouring in nades and it should have been a certain defeat. But myself and another Skulk managed to get past them and get to the Marine base. I quickly took out the Obs/Beacon and then the Power Node, CC and won the game. We really shouldn't have. Maybe the Marine comm was too engrossed to use the Beacon or didn't know how too but this shows how you just cant judge the balance of the game based on a few hundred matches on public servers.
The Marines feels less vulnerable especially if in a squad with a good variety of weapons and taking down hives is great fun as the weapons feel a bit more powerful. Lots of nade launchers making the Gorges job tougher bless em lol. Very easy to clear Hydras now which is good if your a Marine but heartbreaking for a Gorge. Nades too powerful? maybe a tad and also a touch cheap too?
Aliens could do with a lot more of a different feel between life forms as they all need to be close quarters. I still would like the Lerk spores to have a longer range, maybe 30m to help in supporting which should be their role and only resorting to the spikes in self defence and to take down structures. Skulk feels good and although the Fade is one of the main causes for complaint atm I feel its fine. A good player can still take out those lone marines or pairs but more than that and its not so easy now especially when Flame throwers appear. And lets face it the fade spends 70% of its time at a Hive or Crag getting its energy back. I have seen lots of Fades die over the last two nights and its not the beast it was. The only thing I would like to see is a cap on personal res as a Fade who has been alive for a while is not that bothered about dying as he just goes Fade again and again.
This is getting long so will stop now lol. Just my thoughts and I had loads more but going out for beer now.
Ta
Sal
The marine movement looks very wrong, also the hit detection of buildings.
As Gorge i get stuck a lot by just jump over or move to a crag or other structures.
As marine if you sometimes just walk against your teammate you fly up and walk on his head.
The worst bug is, if you play marine and crouch + jump, you can barely hit on a server.
I really love the new skulk, I can still ambush people, even though I have less health I can still kill 2 marines regularly, but it helps give them a chance, you just need to adapt. However it seems that in this build that there is a delay with the skulk when switching surfaces, it doesn't feel nearly as smooth in previous builds.
Lerk - As was said, needs buff big time.
Fade - 80 of those 100 kills last game were a result of the fade. Nuff said, I can agree it needs a little bit of a nerf in a couple areas. But it should still be able to take on 3 Marines with some skill.
Onos - Hes currently not very useful in the current build, needs moar everything.
Marines - Grenade Launcher faster reload is perfect.
This is why aliens have such an easy time expanding in this build despite building placement errors. People don't shoot down the shades in time for the arcs to do their thing, and the fruitless arc investment halts marine expansion.
The Marines feels less vulnerable especially if in a squad with a good variety of weapons and taking down hives is great fun as the weapons feel a bit more powerful. Lots of nade launchers making the Gorges job tougher bless em lol. Very easy to clear Hydras now which is good if your a Marine but heartbreaking for a Gorge. Nades too powerful? maybe a tad and also a touch cheap too?
Aliens could do with a lot more of a different feel between life forms as they all need to be close quarters. I still would like the Lerk spores to have a longer range, maybe 30m to help in supporting which should be their role and only resorting to the spikes in self defence and to take down structures. Skulk feels good and although the Fade is one of the main causes for complaint atm I feel its fine. A good player can still take out those lone marines or pairs but more than that and its not so easy now especially when Flame throwers appear. And lets face it the fade spends 70% of its time at a Hive or Crag getting its energy back. I have seen lots of Fades die over the last two nights and its not the beast it was. The only thing I would like to see is a cap on personal res as a Fade who has been alive for a while is not that bothered about dying as he just goes Fade again and again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fan-tastic analysis there, Salraine_Chi! UWE deserves more fans like you, and less crying hound dog "fans".
I agree that Grenades feel a little too powerful now. Perhaps the damage could be toned down, since they're quite accurate against players.
This is why aliens have such an easy time expanding in this build despite building placement errors. People don't shoot down the shades in time for the arcs to do their thing, and the fruitless arc investment halts marine expansion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the fact that shade counter the arcs/scans. otherwise it's almost impossible to get a good defence on most map.
the marines just have to learn to kill the shades, or the commander have to communicate more and let them know that the arcs are ready to fire.
Most patches improve performance (mostly server side the last patches), so i'm not sure if there will be one big patch making it perfectly smooth, but i expect it to be more a gradual progress.
This is why aliens have such an easy time expanding in this build despite building placement errors. People don't shoot down the shades in time for the arcs to do their thing, and the fruitless arc investment halts marine expansion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The really anoying problem is, that Marine scan does not disable shade efect, as shade do it almost sconstantly... marines are unable to siedge them...
We just played one game, where who or three shades nicely cower all other buildings and alien players from Radar's sweep... and it was impossible to siedge them :(\
Hope this is a bug, and will be fixed.
There were a couple of arcs in our base deployed and ready to fire but nothing - including cysts/pustules - to hit because it was all invisible.
Perhaps if we increased the starting hive energy, and reduced energy regeneration rate to compensate?
What they do need to add is an effect when aliens' cloak activiates and deactivated that is visible to marines. Playing as a marine I couldn't tell when an alien was cloaking and when it was lag/performance problems.
Yes, we are planning on having a shader effect on the cloaked aliens, where it applies their surroundings to the surface of their model. So, they won't be completely invisible, but they will blend in really well and be hard to spot.
--Cory
In the moment the mariens are not strong enough too hold more than the RT in the Mainbase. It takes to long to update the wapons or armor. after 5 min. the first fade is
running around the map but the mariens has just the normal MG or Shotgun.
In the moment the mariens are not strong enough too hold more than the RT in the Mainbase. It takes to long to update the wapons or armor. after 5 min. the first fade is
running around the map but the mariens has just the normal MG or Shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yet marines win 33% of games, so you're really exaggerating
<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=184" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...ats?version=184</a>
Anyway, devs can't give us a patch that will solve everything in one go.
I think Fade is slightly OP, but not the skulk, who dies very quickly from the basic rifle, and dies basically instantly from shotgun, GL, and flamer. The problems for that issue lie elsewhere in performance/servers/detection or whatever. Both sides have things which are too powerful, from aliens point of view the GL and flamer are ridiculously over powered and there is nothing on the alien side that can do what they do.
Turrets should be more powerful, more accurate and more expensive. But remember what do aliens have to defend their base? Super fragile hydras that go pop in one grenade hit? Whips that marines can always avoid?
Overall there is a lot right now that makes gameplay frustrating, and makes the player feel useless at times.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you planning to combine this with transparency?
Keep in mind that cloaked aliens in NS1 were almost completely transparent when walking (what was the %?), but that was often enough to spot them. I imagine a shader that changes the skin when moving would stick out even more.
In the moment the mariens are not strong enough too hold more than the RT in the Mainbase. It takes to long to update the wapons or armor. after 5 min. the first fade is
running around the map but the mariens has just the normal MG or Shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bul.... If 3 Marines a 3 Turrets can't kill a Fade the rines must have bad FPS or a bad Aim. I played 7 rounds and 6 of it as Marine and we won 6 times. As I said in a other thread use the GL to kill fleeing Fades! It is really easy to kill Fades now. And they HP will be reduced to 200hp in the next build.