As has been stated, headshots would be a stupid edition. I loved the semi-pro days of CS, occasionally scoring 5 headshots to win a round on your own.
The matter of the fact is that Marines would have a huge advantage. Also aliens are pretty much all mellee, so if you are not being shot in the head, you are running away - and you can't even shoot back whilst running away and protecting your head.
The only way to implement it would be to say 'marines, onos and fade can be headshotted' but nothing else.
You are free to start threads and dicussions, obviously. But needless thread with a bit of common sense.
<!--quoteo(post=1876725:date=Sep 24 2011, 06:19 AM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Sep 24 2011, 06:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1876725"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As has been stated, headshots would be a stupid edition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An additive is an addition....
I'm not even really paying attention to these comments though because you all seem to not be reading properly or something...
The damage for the various hitboxes wouldn't be as immense as unreal tournament or CS..... just dynamic enough to be able to make a skillful kill, and also the skulks could just have armor increase to balance it.. it's not like skulks are already not cannon fodder to good marines.
All the gameplay preferences, technical issues and such aside, good luck pulling this off in melee vs ranged.
Aliens are already heavily dependent (I'd say more dependent than in NS1) on marines not playing situations to the maximium potential. Whenever you're engaging, you kind of have to rely on marine spending some time to react and hopefully even missing some shots. Add headshots and there's even more gamble on alien's side when engaging - the damage taken could be enormous or minimal depending on the marine reaction and following aim. Doing any consistent hit and run tactics would be total nightmare already.
<!--quoteo(post=1876722:date=Sep 24 2011, 05:05 AM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Sep 24 2011, 05:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1876722"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Edit: Afraid about good FPS game. Lol. Do you think we don't play other FPS ( I play, AA2/3, CS, TF2, CoD, L4D and more). And I can say that I am a good FPS player Since 1998. And I am sure, no I know it, that good NS gamer a f.ucking good FPS gamers. Why? Aiming faster than the NME at a Head isn't hard and that is all you want with your dynamic Hitboxes. It is bull######! NS2 is more than who Aims faster at a head. You got me angry with your last post!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what I'm saying though.. I was so pumped for it to be in NS1 when I used to play that it bothered me to the point where I would shoot at the skulks, fades, and onos, in the head because it was more challenging and rewarding on a personal level.. not so much in the game because there was no real difference (and actually in the case of the onos it was terrible), because of the hitboxes.
Eh I Read this wrong probably... (I actually improved my FPS gameplay greatly because of NS1, specifically headshotting in other games, that's all I was saying).. man I know that it is more than who aims faster at a head, but having the dynamic available can change the course of the game for better or for worse.... I mean you will still tech up and such, just there will be an extra chance for a team to turn the tide on the battle with skill instead of just stalemate bs.. Besides, 1 team has to win.
Might have been said but all the games you play with dynamic hit boxes do not have extremely accurate weapons as NS does. In other games there are the occasional 100% one shot kill gun (that usually gets limited or banned fast), but over all you have fast shooting, very inaccurate weapons, or weapons that are accurate but have such a huge recoil that hitting a sweet spot is crucial because you would be able to track a target with a lot of ridiculous compensation.
Bottom line: I would rather extremely accurate guns with no recoil and one hit box then the accurate extreme recoil dynamic hit boxes.
I'm honestly okay either way.. because if it's balanced enough then all the dynamic hitboxes will do is decide the winner earlier, and I think that's important because drawn out games are boring.. however it's not to say that a game wont be drawn out still because if players are both using similar amounts of effort and the system is balanced, there will be a power struggle no matter what, the victory will go to the overall more skillful team, and I just think that's how it should be. After all, one team has to win.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
I tried out once rudimentary damage zones for the lerk (after the hitbox fix for the wings was released), and it just sucked somehow. It was intuitive, when I hit the body i thought like; "oh, that must have been now a lot of damage, I aimed pretty accurate now" and it was like this, but it screwed the balance completely. in some fight, the lerk survived "forever", in some fights he was like instant kill. it was not all about aiming or movement skills, sometimes it felt random.
I can, if enough people really wish that, try out such system for each life form and we could try it out. it would be interesting to see the impact on the game. but I am concerned about balance issues, and it would make the game less accessible to new players as well (maybe not to CS players since they try to aim for the head :P)
Seeing as how the lore states most alien lifeforms have "armored" skulls, wouldn't making a dynamic hitbox system end up with less damage for headshots as opposed to for instance the belly?
<!--quoteo(post=1876740:date=Sep 24 2011, 07:01 AM:name=Nixxen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nixxen @ Sep 24 2011, 07:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1876740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seeing as how the lore states most alien lifeforms have "armored" skulls, wouldn't making a dynamic hitbox system end up with less damage for headshots as opposed to for instance the belly?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1876740:date=Sep 24 2011, 09:01 AM:name=Nixxen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nixxen @ Sep 24 2011, 09:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1876740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seeing as how the lore states most alien lifeforms have "armored" skulls, wouldn't making a dynamic hitbox system end up with less damage for headshots as opposed to for instance the belly?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why I left it as just "Dynamic" I never said anything about specific hitboxes. The only reason "Headshot!" is the subtitle is because that's how most people relate bonus damages, as most FPS are humanoid vs. humanoid. So this is somewhat true, the aliens will not take as much bonus damage as you'd think.. and it's funny because people have been saying about the aliens charging head on and just being shot in the head, but I'm not suggesting at all the the hitbox for aliens should be so dynamic that skulks only take 2 bullets to the head, I'm just suggesting that the damage, when registering, is varied depending on how accurate your shots are hitting the target. It wouldn't be by much.. for example, the closer you are to a vital in CS with a weaker weapon (pistol, machine pistol), when the target is wearing armor - the damage will vary by only 1~8, but that's on top of a base damage of 23 per shot, and based on how skillfully you're hitting the target. With the same weapon you can shoot a player in the head and if hes not wearing a helmet, do 75 +-9 damage, or if he's wearing a helmet, 44 +-8 damage. Again though, this is with humanoids, but it shows that if you are using the gun effectively, you can drop a target in as little as 2 shots while he has the best armor he can buy, or it can take as many as 8~9 if you're shooting at his feet and legs - so there's a lot of skill in <i>how</i> you're dealing damage to the target. Shooting at someone's feet opens up a large window for the guy you're shooting at to just plant some shot in your head and neck, should he be so skilled to do so. At the same time, the person shooting at the feet should have aimed a little better and/or chose a better weapon for that matter. Some will say it's somewhat luck.. but many times I've used a PISTOL and specifically went to take down the oppositions strongest player using those weapons that are made restricted because they're "overpowered". It's not just about how powerful a weapon is, but how you use it. In NS the damage is still about how you're using it but without varied damage, the bullets do a linear amount of damage and it doesn't feel skillful to use. There were NS1 servers that had the damage come up on the screen, and you could easily see the numbers are always the exact same.. no variance as to how well the hit was registered. This has been carried over to NS2, for example I was watching a clan match on NS2HD and one team as alien went into Surface Access (now Data Core) to defend their newly built hive. The last 1v1 that it came down to, a skulk vs. a marine - because everyone else had died - the skulk made a bite and the attack was so poorly aimed that only 1 tooth scratched by the marines leg and the marine fell over dead and <i>then</i> a medpack falls on the marine. It's situations like that where I would like to know who was really aiming the best.. Just because the skulk was able to close distance in the frantic pace of the battle, he was able to get the kill because he barely aimed.. well still the hit landed though so that's why I would like to see how it would play out if there was varied damage.. It would change fights and make the game feel a little bit more atmospheric and dynamic.. plus it would encourage people to actually need to aim properly or risk being killed outright by a player that then has a larger window to aim and kill, even if it is just the targets legs or whatever.. Anyways I'm not entirely sure how the CS damage is calculated but it seems to be a radial target, much like a bullseye, painted on the boxes.. so the closer to the heart and the more centered, the more damage you will deal.. as well as a head hitbox bonus for 10~33% depending on how close to the centre of the head you aim (essentially the cerebellum). I could draw a crude picture but it would basically be a box with a radial pattern, the easiest way to think of it would be painted bullseyes over the body, each colour radial indicating varied damage.
<!--quoteo(post=1876819:date=Sep 24 2011, 07:06 PM:name=Corpsey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Corpsey @ Sep 24 2011, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1876819"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is why I left it as just "Dynamic" I never said anything about specific hitboxes. The only reason "Headshot!" is the subtitle is because that's how most people relate bonus damages, as most FPS are humanoid vs. humanoid.
So this is somewhat true, the aliens will not take as much bonus damage as you'd think.. and it's funny because people have been saying about the aliens charging head on and just being shot in the head, but I'm not suggesting at all the the hitbox for aliens should be so dynamic that skulks only take 2 bullets to the head, I'm just suggesting that the damage, when registering, is varied depending on how accurate your shots are hitting the target. It wouldn't be by much..
for example, the closer you are to a vital in CS with a weaker weapon (pistol, machine pistol), when the target is wearing armor - the damage will vary by only 1~8, but that's on top of a base damage of 23 per shot, and based on how skillfully you're hitting the target. With the same weapon you can shoot a player in the head and if hes not wearing a helmet, do 75 +-9 damage, or if he's wearing a helmet, 44 +-8 damage.
Again though, this is with humanoids, but it shows that if you are using the gun effectively, you can drop a target in as little as 2 shots while he has the best armor he can buy, or it can take as many as 8~9 if you're shooting at his feet and legs - so there's a lot of skill in <i>how</i> you're dealing damage to the target.
Shooting at someone's feet opens up a large window for the guy you're shooting at to just plant some shot in your head and neck, should he be so skilled to do so. At the same time, the person shooting at the feet should have aimed a little better and/or chose a better weapon for that matter. Some will say it's somewhat luck.. but many times I've used a PISTOL and specifically went to take down the oppositions strongest player using those weapons that are made restricted because they're "overpowered". It's not just about how powerful a weapon is, but how you use it.
In NS, the damage is still about how you're using it but without varied damage, the bullets do a linear amount of damage and it doesn't feel skillful to use. There were NS1 servers that had the damage come up on the screen, and you could easily see the numbers are always the exact same.. no variance as to how well the hit was registered.
This has been carried over to NS2, for example I was watching a clan match on NS2HD and one team as alien went into Surface Access (now Data Core) to defend their newly built hive. The last 1v1 that it came down to, a skulk vs. a marine - because everyone else had died - the skulk made a bite and the attack was so poorly aimed that only 1 tooth scratched by the marines leg and the marine fell over dead and <i>then</i> a medpack falls on the marine.
It's situations like that where I would like to know who was really aiming the best.. Just because the skulk was able to close distance in the frantic pace of the battle, he was able to get the kill because he barely aimed.. well still the hit landed though so that's why I would like to see how it would play out if there was varied damage..
It would change fights and make the game feel a little bit more atmospheric and dynamic.. plus it would encourage people to actually need to aim properly or risk being killed outright by a player that then has a larger window to aim and kill, even if it is just the targets legs or whatever..
Anyways I'm not entirely sure how the CS damage is calculated but it seems to be a radial target, much like a bullseye, painted on the boxes.. so the closer to the heart and the more centered, the more damage you will deal.. as well as a head hitbox bonus for 10~33% depending on how close to the centre of the head you aim (essentially the cerebellum). I could draw a crude picture but it would basically be a box with a radial pattern, the easiest way to think of it would be painted bullseyes over the body, each colour radial indicating varied damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand where you are coming from. Alien-wise it might be neat for the skulk to take higher damage in the rear and more in the belly (+2-+4?) and same with the gorge/lerk/onos. Those classes you rarely see the exposed belly but it would be nice to exploit it when you do. Fade... Maybe a head hit box but no more than +2-+4 like the other classes. It would be interesting to see how it played out.
I just cringed at the though of head shots like other FPS games. If it was implemented subtly with only a minor gain i wouldn't mind it.
Comments
The matter of the fact is that Marines would have a huge advantage. Also aliens are pretty much all mellee, so if you are not being shot in the head, you are running away - and you can't even shoot back whilst running away and protecting your head.
The only way to implement it would be to say 'marines, onos and fade can be headshotted' but nothing else.
You are free to start threads and dicussions, obviously. But needless thread with a bit of common sense.
An additive is an addition....
I'm not even really paying attention to these comments though because you all seem to not be reading properly or something...
The damage for the various hitboxes wouldn't be as immense as unreal tournament or CS..... just dynamic enough to be able to make a skillful kill, and also the skulks could just have armor increase to balance it.. it's not like skulks are already not cannon fodder to good marines.
Aliens are already heavily dependent (I'd say more dependent than in NS1) on marines not playing situations to the maximium potential. Whenever you're engaging, you kind of have to rely on marine spending some time to react and hopefully even missing some shots. Add headshots and there's even more gamble on alien's side when engaging - the damage taken could be enormous or minimal depending on the marine reaction and following aim. Doing any consistent hit and run tactics would be total nightmare already.
Afraid about good FPS game. Lol. Do you think we don't play other FPS ( I play, AA2/3, CS, TF2, CoD, L4D and more). And I can say that I am a good FPS player Since 1998. And I am sure, no I know it, that good NS gamer a f.ucking good FPS gamers. Why? Aiming faster than the NME at a Head isn't hard and that is all you want with your dynamic Hitboxes. It is bull######! NS2 is more than who Aims faster at a head.
You got me angry with your last post!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what I'm saying though.. I was so pumped for it to be in NS1 when I used to play that it bothered me to the point where I would shoot at the skulks, fades, and onos, in the head because it was more challenging and rewarding on a personal level.. not so much in the game because there was no real difference (and actually in the case of the onos it was terrible), because of the hitboxes.
Eh I Read this wrong probably... (I actually improved my FPS gameplay greatly because of NS1, specifically headshotting in other games, that's all I was saying).. man I know that it is more than who aims faster at a head, but having the dynamic available can change the course of the game for better or for worse.... I mean you will still tech up and such, just there will be an extra chance for a team to turn the tide on the battle with skill instead of just stalemate bs.. Besides, 1 team has to win.
Bottom line: I would rather extremely accurate guns with no recoil and one hit box then the accurate extreme recoil dynamic hit boxes.
I can, if enough people really wish that, try out such system for each life form and we could try it out. it would be interesting to see the impact on the game. but I am concerned about balance issues, and it would make the game less accessible to new players as well (maybe not to CS players since they try to aim for the head :P)
+1
This is why I left it as just "Dynamic" I never said anything about specific hitboxes. The only reason "Headshot!" is the subtitle is because that's how most people relate bonus damages, as most FPS are humanoid vs. humanoid. So this is somewhat true, the aliens will not take as much bonus damage as you'd think.. and it's funny because people have been saying about the aliens charging head on and just being shot in the head, but I'm not suggesting at all the the hitbox for aliens should be so dynamic that skulks only take 2 bullets to the head, I'm just suggesting that the damage, when registering, is varied depending on how accurate your shots are hitting the target. It wouldn't be by much.. for example, the closer you are to a vital in CS with a weaker weapon (pistol, machine pistol), when the target is wearing armor - the damage will vary by only 1~8, but that's on top of a base damage of 23 per shot, and based on how skillfully you're hitting the target. With the same weapon you can shoot a player in the head and if hes not wearing a helmet, do 75 +-9 damage, or if he's wearing a helmet, 44 +-8 damage. Again though, this is with humanoids, but it shows that if you are using the gun effectively, you can drop a target in as little as 2 shots while he has the best armor he can buy, or it can take as many as 8~9 if you're shooting at his feet and legs - so there's a lot of skill in <i>how</i> you're dealing damage to the target. Shooting at someone's feet opens up a large window for the guy you're shooting at to just plant some shot in your head and neck, should he be so skilled to do so. At the same time, the person shooting at the feet should have aimed a little better and/or chose a better weapon for that matter. Some will say it's somewhat luck.. but many times I've used a PISTOL and specifically went to take down the oppositions strongest player using those weapons that are made restricted because they're "overpowered". It's not just about how powerful a weapon is, but how you use it. In NS the damage is still about how you're using it but without varied damage, the bullets do a linear amount of damage and it doesn't feel skillful to use. There were NS1 servers that had the damage come up on the screen, and you could easily see the numbers are always the exact same.. no variance as to how well the hit was registered. This has been carried over to NS2, for example I was watching a clan match on NS2HD and one team as alien went into Surface Access (now Data Core) to defend their newly built hive. The last 1v1 that it came down to, a skulk vs. a marine - because everyone else had died - the skulk made a bite and the attack was so poorly aimed that only 1 tooth scratched by the marines leg and the marine fell over dead and <i>then</i> a medpack falls on the marine. It's situations like that where I would like to know who was really aiming the best.. Just because the skulk was able to close distance in the frantic pace of the battle, he was able to get the kill because he barely aimed.. well still the hit landed though so that's why I would like to see how it would play out if there was varied damage.. It would change fights and make the game feel a little bit more atmospheric and dynamic.. plus it would encourage people to actually need to aim properly or risk being killed outright by a player that then has a larger window to aim and kill, even if it is just the targets legs or whatever.. Anyways I'm not entirely sure how the CS damage is calculated but it seems to be a radial target, much like a bullseye, painted on the boxes.. so the closer to the heart and the more centered, the more damage you will deal.. as well as a head hitbox bonus for 10~33% depending on how close to the centre of the head you aim (essentially the cerebellum). I could draw a crude picture but it would basically be a box with a radial pattern, the easiest way to think of it would be painted bullseyes over the body, each colour radial indicating varied damage.
Sheesh... will.. you... use... those... damn... nifty... things... called... paragraphs... already... Corpsey!!!
So this is somewhat true, the aliens will not take as much bonus damage as you'd think.. and it's funny because people have been saying about the aliens charging head on and just being shot in the head, but I'm not suggesting at all the the hitbox for aliens should be so dynamic that skulks only take 2 bullets to the head, I'm just suggesting that the damage, when registering, is varied depending on how accurate your shots are hitting the target. It wouldn't be by much..
for example, the closer you are to a vital in CS with a weaker weapon (pistol, machine pistol), when the target is wearing armor - the damage will vary by only 1~8, but that's on top of a base damage of 23 per shot, and based on how skillfully you're hitting the target. With the same weapon you can shoot a player in the head and if hes not wearing a helmet, do 75 +-9 damage, or if he's wearing a helmet, 44 +-8 damage.
Again though, this is with humanoids, but it shows that if you are using the gun effectively, you can drop a target in as little as 2 shots while he has the best armor he can buy, or it can take as many as 8~9 if you're shooting at his feet and legs - so there's a lot of skill in <i>how</i> you're dealing damage to the target.
Shooting at someone's feet opens up a large window for the guy you're shooting at to just plant some shot in your head and neck, should he be so skilled to do so. At the same time, the person shooting at the feet should have aimed a little better and/or chose a better weapon for that matter. Some will say it's somewhat luck.. but many times I've used a PISTOL and specifically went to take down the oppositions strongest player using those weapons that are made restricted because they're "overpowered". It's not just about how powerful a weapon is, but how you use it.
In NS, the damage is still about how you're using it but without varied damage, the bullets do a linear amount of damage and it doesn't feel skillful to use. There were NS1 servers that had the damage come up on the screen, and you could easily see the numbers are always the exact same.. no variance as to how well the hit was registered.
This has been carried over to NS2, for example I was watching a clan match on NS2HD and one team as alien went into Surface Access (now Data Core) to defend their newly built hive. The last 1v1 that it came down to, a skulk vs. a marine - because everyone else had died - the skulk made a bite and the attack was so poorly aimed that only 1 tooth scratched by the marines leg and the marine fell over dead and <i>then</i> a medpack falls on the marine.
It's situations like that where I would like to know who was really aiming the best.. Just because the skulk was able to close distance in the frantic pace of the battle, he was able to get the kill because he barely aimed.. well still the hit landed though so that's why I would like to see how it would play out if there was varied damage..
It would change fights and make the game feel a little bit more atmospheric and dynamic.. plus it would encourage people to actually need to aim properly or risk being killed outright by a player that then has a larger window to aim and kill, even if it is just the targets legs or whatever..
Anyways I'm not entirely sure how the CS damage is calculated but it seems to be a radial target, much like a bullseye, painted on the boxes.. so the closer to the heart and the more centered, the more damage you will deal.. as well as a head hitbox bonus for 10~33% depending on how close to the centre of the head you aim (essentially the cerebellum). I could draw a crude picture but it would basically be a box with a radial pattern, the easiest way to think of it would be painted bullseyes over the body, each colour radial indicating varied damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand where you are coming from. Alien-wise it might be neat for the skulk to take higher damage in the rear and more in the belly (+2-+4?) and same with the gorge/lerk/onos. Those classes you rarely see the exposed belly but it would be nice to exploit it when you do. Fade... Maybe a head hit box but no more than +2-+4 like the other classes. It would be interesting to see how it played out.
I just cringed at the though of head shots like other FPS games. If it was implemented subtly with only a minor gain i wouldn't mind it.