<!--quoteo(post=1881215:date=Oct 22 2011, 11:29 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Oct 22 2011, 11:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881215"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The best game on steam.
Really?
You do know about some of the games they sell on steam right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For me, NS2 is the game I jones for after a long week.
SkymanderXGreen Marine - The Few, The Proud, The Green.Join Date: 2011-07-29Member: 113006Members
<!--quoteo(post=1881217:date=Oct 22 2011, 12:37 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Oct 22 2011, 12:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881217"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let us worry about our funding situation. And, in fact, our funding situation is fine, and there is no risk of us going bankrupt before we release NS2 due to lack of money.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
couldn't agree more. Stop worrying about UWE's money and if their working hard or not. Let them make the game.
I'm thinking like the OP. At first I was super hype when NS2 beta started, because ns 3.x was in beta for like... forever? And I was expecting something like that. Because the word "beta" didn't meant that much to UWE that time imo. But this time the beta version was unplayable the first time I started it and nothing much changed until know tbh. The thing is even when I imagine having no lag and constant frames I am not quite sure if I would like the game. The bad perfomance overshadows the gameplay, thats why I would say stick to the ns1 gameplay, because everybody knows that it is the best mod ever made.
NS1 was far from perfect, but NS2 is pile of random problems that even if solved would not make enjoyable experience on the long run. I personally thought they would start to improve NS adding these functions like power nodes remove the unwanted features of bunnyhopping and more together make the <b>gameplay</b> more fluent instead of raping it beyond recogniziton.
<!--quoteo(post=1881227:date=Oct 22 2011, 05:47 PM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Oct 22 2011, 05:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881227"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS1 was far from perfect, but NS2 is pile of random problems that even if solved would not make enjoyable experience on the long run. I personally thought they would start to improve NS adding these functions like power nodes remove the unwanted features of bunnyhopping and more together make the <b>gameplay</b> more fluent instead of raping it beyond recogniziton.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
pretty much this partly.
all ns1 needed is improvement, but in ns2 they completely changed everything ns1 was about anything from the gameplay to even the aliens themselves. The game has been dumbed-down pretty badly actually, I just don't understand charlies vision in this. NS2 seems to focus on graphics more then actual gameplay. We need to capture the ns1 gameplay not completely change everything.
The movement ns1 brought into its gameplay was special, its one of the things made the game such success actually. It gave aliens the agility needed in combat, and it was fun. compared to ns2 movement now, alien movement dull, simple and limited. Charlie said it himself ns1 was fast paced game, and he wanted ns2 to be slow paced game.
I just don't understand why so much had to change when it was working for years, all the game needed is improvement, not rebuilding the whole gameplay and aliens.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited October 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1881135:date=Oct 22 2011, 12:37 AM:name=rein4ce)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rein4ce @ Oct 22 2011, 12:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881135"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Haha gosh that is so funny seeing the same generic responses too all criticism on these boards for the last 3 years.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
then why are you still here? just to troll / complain, and hope that people respond? <u>gtfo </u>if you dont like the situation so much, i dont see why you need to post anything?
lock this useless thread, it doesn't even have a point
I can honestly say that NS is by far THE game Ive put most hours into more than any other game I can think of ( well MAYBE counter strike ), it can get frustrating to play the game in its current state but I would not change anything about it. I want to fall in love with NS2 just like I did with the first game and I dont want to play the game when its released and think ohh they could have done this or that. So I say let them take their time to bring us NS2 as it should be and from what Ive seen throughout the development process I belive UWE will deliver.
1: IdSoftware made a successful copy of a Quake game? What game? O.o
2: TF2 Is NOT the same game as TFC almost every class had some sort of machine gun and they added heavy + LOTS of weapons/hats/whatever in TF2, Your statement is invalid!
3: CoD and MW is the same game.. And the Battlefield series have changed alot too, look at BF3's Operation Metro for example and both BFBCs and Battlefield 2: Modern Combat.
4: I enjoy the Beta, ALOT. Sure, theres this Frames per seconds problem but Im sure they'll fix that soon and its very few servers thats full but Hopefully it will come more players when they release it on steam, just imagine the title Natural Selection 2 on the steam shop front page ;) nah but really I think when its released on steam, gets some (good) reviews and such It will come more players.
5: Theres alot of more wierd things you've said that I wont even bother to mention. Jesus..
<!--quoteo(post=1881281:date=Oct 22 2011, 11:34 PM:name=jbaker8935)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jbaker8935 @ Oct 22 2011, 11:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i did laugh. is it a non sequitur or not? very good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyone that still plays NS and remembers what made NS good is going to want bunnyhopping. If you don't, you don't like the idea of skill in your FPS.
<!--quoteo(post=1881289:date=Oct 22 2011, 07:58 PM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Oct 22 2011, 07:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881289"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone that still plays NS and remembers what made NS good is going to want bunnyhopping. If you don't, you don't like the idea of skill in your FPS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
spazzing your hand on the spacebar/jump button and moving your mouse left and right with your jumps isn't skill, you look like a retard having an epileptic seizure. It looks the same in every game and most of the games now-a-days is getting rid of that little engine exploit simply because it's stupid, you can't aim for ###### so you're going to jump around until the person shooting at you runs out of bullets so you can stop dead and unload a full clip into the now defenceless person. How about you get some REAL skill and LEARN TO AIM so you don't need to jump around like you just downed a full shipment of redbull.
Richard if you couldn't kill a single skulk with an entire magazine from an LMG, you've no place disparaging the aim or skill of anyone else.
Konata - that's not really true. BH was left in the game to give 1-hive skulks a way to close with marines. It required some skill, but not very much. The core of fast-paced FPS movement skill remains - knowing to do things like hop on ladders and bits of the environment then back off of them, circle strafing, etc. These all remain.
Your statement is like saying that SC2 doesn't require skill because it doesn't require the APM that broodwar did. I would contend that SC2's skillcap is still almost unlimited, and none of today's pro competitors have reached it, as they still have seconds with production buildings idle, forgotten upgrades, etc. When BW's pro players move into SC2 they will demolish the current field of pros.
I'd like to see OP's credentials before I start taking what seems from appearances to be absolutely terrible marketing and game development advice. I worked on my game for years until the damn thing was ready; I worked for so long that the rest of my team took on other commitments or abandoned the project, but had I the ability to shape the past, I wouldn't have released it a day earlier than it was. Not even if it'd kept my team together to do it. What mattered at the end of the day, what always matters from my experience, is not the time it takes to polish a game or the impatience fans feel waiting for it to come, it's the product that gets released and the game that people play.
You only get one launch. It's worth whatever you can give to make it a damn good one.
<!--quoteo(post=1881293:date=Oct 23 2011, 02:46 AM:name=RichardRahl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RichardRahl @ Oct 23 2011, 02:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881293"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->spazzing your hand on the spacebar/jump button and moving your mouse left and right with your jumps isn't skill, you look like a retard having an epileptic seizure. It looks the same in every game and most of the games now-a-days is getting rid of that little engine exploit simply because it's stupid, you can't aim for ###### so you're going to jump around until the person shooting at you runs out of bullets so you can stop dead and unload a full clip into the now defenceless person. How about you get some REAL skill and LEARN TO AIM so you don't need to jump around like you just downed a full shipment of redbull.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Skulks shoot bullets? Then what game have I been playing for years... It's like paella said, it had good reason to be there for the skulks to not be crap at certain distances. The wrong decision was that they did not embrace bunnyhopping fully and have proper built-in binds\scripts\mechanisms to facilitate it, instead of treating it like an elephant in the room and basically not mention it (and keeping it's knowledge from newcomers).
I'd rather ns2 take longer to come out at least it will be working correctly rather than rushing it out somewhat broken and have the gaming community criticise it (more so)
I'd rather be patient and wait for decent quality games, than have a buggy mess shipped too early. This happens far too often in the industry, with only the likes of Valve & Blizzard taking their time to properly test a game for months/years before release. If UWE have the funds, let them make it great. It will be worth it in the long run.
<!--quoteo(post=1881305:date=Oct 23 2011, 02:14 AM:name=paella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paella @ Oct 23 2011, 02:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881305"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your statement is like saying that SC2 doesn't require skill because it doesn't require the APM that broodwar did. I would contend that SC2's skillcap is still almost unlimited, and none of today's pro competitors have reached it, as they still have seconds with production buildings idle, forgotten upgrades, etc. When BW's pro players move into SC2 they will demolish the current field of pros.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In all honesty SC2 is running to some trouble, partitially due to skill curve right now. It's not capped, but the top korean tournament GSL Code S has 20 terrans out of 32 players and one of the bigger reasons for that is that terran has the easiest time finding extra room for improvement. The game itself is design wise probably as balanced as BW ever has been, but because the players have harder time to outplay their opponent, the balance gets tilted far easier.
Out of your BW pros the most dominant SC2 player recently is MVP. In BW he was known for being good at flawlessly executing build orders and being well rounded, but never being spectacular in anything. That's SC2 for you - a lot more goes to punctual execution and not making little mistakes. As BW pros move over, they'll definitely be top contenders, but I highly doubt there will be any demolishing going on. There simply isn't that extra room to be spectacularly dominant.
Notably also I don't care so much about the cap itself - it's way beyond the reach of any of us mortals. However what matters is that SC2 is a lot softer in general. There are far less ways to wiggle yourself ahead and often you're stuck executing more optimal builds and plans and making less small mistakes way more than in BW where you had more ways to push your opponent out of the comfort zone.
All that being said SC2 is a great game. However, it exactly isn't all the way as brilliant or ambitious as BW in many skill curve and play challenge aspects. I enjoy SC2, but I doubt it'll ever make me feel such exitement as a game of BW can do.
<!--quoteo(post=1881293:date=Oct 23 2011, 01:46 AM:name=RichardRahl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RichardRahl @ Oct 23 2011, 01:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881293"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->spazzing your hand on the spacebar/jump button and moving your mouse left and right with your jumps isn't skill, you look like a retard having an epileptic seizure. It looks the same in every game and most of the games now-a-days is getting rid of that little engine exploit simply because it's stupid, you can't aim for ###### so you're going to jump around until the person shooting at you runs out of bullets so you can stop dead and unload a full clip into the now defenceless person. How about you get some REAL skill and LEARN TO AIM so you don't need to jump around like you just downed a full shipment of redbull.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can aim well thanks. It's your choice if you want crap slow skulks like now so, have fun.
<!--quoteo(post=1881132:date=Oct 22 2011, 09:12 AM:name=Grizzy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grizzy @ Oct 22 2011, 09:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881132"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also comparing UWE to companies like DICE and Valve makes you a complete moron.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think that anyone watching game list in Steam Store will care about supporting new random devs.
TF2 in dev for 10 years: ###### lol. NS2 team will go out of business without new (pre)orders within year maybe. Valve is huge and rich enough to be able to pipeline and down/upscale resources for given project.
Game engine - no one will care either. Players mistake Havok physics library for game engine and start to whine how it's not UE3 and stuff like that. You convince them with polished product.
ATM NS2 just isn't 10% of NS1 fun.
tl;dr: Most of population won't give a damn how ambitious NS2 team tried to be, they want good game released.
<!--quoteo(post=1881352:date=Oct 23 2011, 01:38 PM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ Oct 23 2011, 01:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881352"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->tl;dr: Most of population won't give a damn how ambitious NS2 team tried to be, they want good game released.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Reminds me of what John Carmack said recently. Technology doesn't make games, the amount of effort you put in to them shows how good your game is.
<!--quoteo(post=1881383:date=Oct 24 2011, 12:03 AM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Oct 24 2011, 12:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881383"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Reminds me of what John Carmack said recently. Technology doesn't make games, the amount of effort you put in to them shows how good your game is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> and still did rage fail to meet any expectations. even worse releasing it to early after a bunch of chimpanzees beta tested it. i dont know why peoples still quote carmack with a straight face
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prey_%28video_game%29" target="_blank">Prey</a> was in developement for over a decade. Until UWE goes over that line, then I'll start to get worried.
Well, i agree to the most terms of the autors post. Anyway the this concept seems to be funny but i also getting feared that UWE will miss money one day. And Cory i still take care about it because if UWE goes bankrupt i blew 35 bucks into the trash. Im watching several games which are sequells for example rfactor 2, a racing simulation, there are working for it now for 4 years and they are releasing it 2011, own graphic engine, high phyiscal engine (flat tires, aerodynamics, chassis, rain, etc.), and they are doing there jobs! I really miss some core features like Onos, Jetpacks, a playable engine (lags, fps). Go on and do it. I think UWE needs to listen to those guys who dont want to ***** there ***** too.
<!--quoteo(post=1881392:date=Oct 23 2011, 05:00 PM:name=sheena_yanai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sheena_yanai @ Oct 23 2011, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881392"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and still did rage fail to meet any expectations. even worse releasing it to early after a bunch of chimpanzees beta tested it. i dont know why peoples still quote carmack with a straight face
and good job with the trollan op, i applaud you<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I liked rage actually, my only complaint was that it was a little short, but everything in it worked nicely.
Comments
Really?
You do know about some of the games they sell on steam right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For me, NS2 is the game I jones for after a long week.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
couldn't agree more. Stop worrying about UWE's money and if their working hard or not. Let them make the game.
At first I was super hype when NS2 beta started, because ns 3.x was in beta for like... forever? And I was expecting something like that. Because the word "beta" didn't meant that much to UWE that time imo.
But this time the beta version was unplayable the first time I started it and nothing much changed until know tbh. The thing is even when I imagine having no lag and constant frames I am not quite sure if I would like the game.
The bad perfomance overshadows the gameplay, thats why I would say stick to the ns1 gameplay, because everybody knows that it is the best mod ever made.
By some, not all.
pretty much this partly.
all ns1 needed is improvement, but in ns2 they completely changed everything ns1 was about anything from the gameplay to even the aliens themselves. The game has been dumbed-down pretty badly actually, I just don't understand charlies vision in this. NS2 seems to focus on graphics more then actual gameplay. We need to capture the ns1 gameplay not completely change everything.
The movement ns1 brought into its gameplay was special, its one of the things made the game such success actually. It gave aliens the agility needed in combat, and it was fun. compared to ns2 movement now, alien movement dull, simple and limited. Charlie said it himself ns1 was fast paced game, and he wanted ns2 to be slow paced game.
I just don't understand why so much had to change when it was working for years, all the game needed is improvement, not rebuilding the whole gameplay and aliens.
then why are you still here? just to troll / complain, and hope that people respond?
<u>gtfo </u>if you dont like the situation so much, i dont see why you need to post anything?
lock this useless thread, it doesn't even have a point
i did laugh. is it a non sequitur or not? very good.
1: IdSoftware made a successful copy of a Quake game? What game? O.o
2: TF2 Is NOT the same game as TFC almost every class had some sort of machine gun and they added heavy + LOTS of weapons/hats/whatever in TF2, Your statement is invalid!
3: CoD and MW is the same game.. And the Battlefield series have changed alot too, look at BF3's Operation Metro for example and both BFBCs and Battlefield 2: Modern Combat.
4: I enjoy the Beta, ALOT. Sure, theres this Frames per seconds problem but Im sure they'll fix that soon and its very few servers thats full but Hopefully it will come more players when they release it on steam, just imagine the title Natural Selection 2 on the steam shop front page ;) nah but really I think when its released on steam, gets some (good) reviews and such It will come more players.
5: Theres alot of more wierd things you've said that I wont even bother to mention. Jesus..
Anyone that still plays NS and remembers what made NS good is going to want bunnyhopping. If you don't, you don't like the idea of skill in your FPS.
Everytime I do it it just doesn't work ? :|
spazzing your hand on the spacebar/jump button and moving your mouse left and right with your jumps isn't skill, you look like a retard having an epileptic seizure. It looks the same in every game and most of the games now-a-days is getting rid of that little engine exploit simply because it's stupid, you can't aim for ###### so you're going to jump around until the person shooting at you runs out of bullets so you can stop dead and unload a full clip into the now defenceless person. How about you get some REAL skill and LEARN TO AIM so you don't need to jump around like you just downed a full shipment of redbull.
Konata - that's not really true. BH was left in the game to give 1-hive skulks a way to close with marines. It required some skill, but not very much. The core of fast-paced FPS movement skill remains - knowing to do things like hop on ladders and bits of the environment then back off of them, circle strafing, etc. These all remain.
Your statement is like saying that SC2 doesn't require skill because it doesn't require the APM that broodwar did. I would contend that SC2's skillcap is still almost unlimited, and none of today's pro competitors have reached it, as they still have seconds with production buildings idle, forgotten upgrades, etc. When BW's pro players move into SC2 they will demolish the current field of pros.
You only get one launch. It's worth whatever you can give to make it a damn good one.
I mean damn. 'It's difficult so stop.' What? Someone shut this down.
Skulks shoot bullets? Then what game have I been playing for years... It's like paella said, it had good reason to be there for the skulks to not be crap at certain distances. The wrong decision was that they did not embrace bunnyhopping fully and have proper built-in binds\scripts\mechanisms to facilitate it, instead of treating it like an elephant in the room and basically not mention it (and keeping it's knowledge from newcomers).
In all honesty SC2 is running to some trouble, partitially due to skill curve right now. It's not capped, but the top korean tournament GSL Code S has 20 terrans out of 32 players and one of the bigger reasons for that is that terran has the easiest time finding extra room for improvement. The game itself is design wise probably as balanced as BW ever has been, but because the players have harder time to outplay their opponent, the balance gets tilted far easier.
Out of your BW pros the most dominant SC2 player recently is MVP. In BW he was known for being good at flawlessly executing build orders and being well rounded, but never being spectacular in anything. That's SC2 for you - a lot more goes to punctual execution and not making little mistakes. As BW pros move over, they'll definitely be top contenders, but I highly doubt there will be any demolishing going on. There simply isn't that extra room to be spectacularly dominant.
Notably also I don't care so much about the cap itself - it's way beyond the reach of any of us mortals. However what matters is that SC2 is a lot softer in general. There are far less ways to wiggle yourself ahead and often you're stuck executing more optimal builds and plans and making less small mistakes way more than in BW where you had more ways to push your opponent out of the comfort zone.
All that being said SC2 is a great game. However, it exactly isn't all the way as brilliant or ambitious as BW in many skill curve and play challenge aspects. I enjoy SC2, but I doubt it'll ever make me feel such exitement as a game of BW can do.
I can aim well thanks. It's your choice if you want crap slow skulks like now so, have fun.
I don't think that anyone watching game list in Steam Store will care about supporting new random devs.
TF2 in dev for 10 years: ###### lol. NS2 team will go out of business without new (pre)orders within year maybe. Valve is huge and rich enough to be able to pipeline and down/upscale resources for given project.
Game engine - no one will care either. Players mistake Havok physics library for game engine and start to whine how it's not UE3 and stuff like that. You convince them with polished product.
ATM NS2 just isn't 10% of NS1 fun.
tl;dr: Most of population won't give a damn how ambitious NS2 team tried to be, they want good game released.
Reminds me of what John Carmack said recently. Technology doesn't make games, the amount of effort you put in to them shows how good your game is.
and still did rage fail to meet any expectations. even worse releasing it to early after a bunch of chimpanzees beta tested it.
i dont know why peoples still quote carmack with a straight face
and good job with the trollan op, i applaud you
Until UWE goes over that line, then I'll start to get worried.
I really miss some core features like Onos, Jetpacks, a playable engine (lags, fps). Go on and do it.
I think UWE needs to listen to those guys who dont want to ***** there ***** too.
i dont know why peoples still quote carmack with a straight face
and good job with the trollan op, i applaud you<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I liked rage actually, my only complaint was that it was a little short, but everything in it worked nicely.