Time to think about shipping the game

135

Comments

  • konatakonata Join Date: 2011-08-24 Member: 118296Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881392:date=Oct 23 2011, 05:00 PM:name=sheena_yanai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sheena_yanai @ Oct 23 2011, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881392"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and still did rage fail to meet any expectations. even worse releasing it to early after a bunch of chimpanzees beta tested it.
    i dont know why peoples still quote carmack with a straight face


    and good job with the trollan op, i applaud you<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    He's right though. Your hard work will pay off. How well was Half-Life 2 received after 5 years? How much effort do you think Blizzard have been putting in to their games too? All the top games have enormous amounts of effort put in to their games and that is what makes them top. They never come out with excuses or tell you their ambition, they put out the goods, they deliver the goods instead of telling you what they're going to do. That's why, those people make the best games. More action, more deliverance, less talk.
  • rein4cerein4ce Join Date: 2008-07-05 Member: 64567Members
    edited October 2011
    As usual idiots on these forums mistake criticism for trolling. I don't post because I already said what I had in mind. Others have even put it in much better words. I am not going to participate in a senseless discussion as all of your arguments I have already seen dozens of times, not only on this project's occasion but also many other... that later failed miserably. People, get real. Stats don't lie, there is something seriously wrong with the game right now (it has been for the last year) and adding new small feature here and there is NOT going to suddenly turn that 180 degrees.

    So, instead of just telling everyone "it's going to be fine" try to find reasons for the current state of things and how to fix it. Before Age of Conan or recently mentioned Rage everyone was so cocksure about them becoming real blockbusters - well guess what. The only thing is Id Software can afford making a flop once in a while...

    Oh and just for the sake of clarifiaction: I did not mean rewriting the whole game to match NS1 archetype but rather finishing it from now by sticking only to the core things proven to be fun in NS1 and nothing more.

    Flame away, unless you have something reasonable to add!
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    Although again, how does sticking to NS1, whatever that might mean, result in instantaneous bugfixing and implementation of remaining features?
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    Sure is flamebait in here.
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1881397:date=Oct 23 2011, 04:37 PM:name=snooops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooops @ Oct 23 2011, 04:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881397"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And Cory i still take care about it because if UWE goes bankrupt i blew 35 bucks into the trash.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I appreciate your concern about the money you put in to the pre order, but UWE has a lot more to lose if we go bankrupt, then 35 bucks. Such as our jobs, and all the blood sweat and tears we've put into this game over the past few years. So, we have a pretty big incentive to stay in business and get this game done, and we've taken the necessary steps to do so.

    We have an internal deadline for when we want to release this game, and we know everything that needs to be done to ship the game, and we are hiring more people and working hard to do everything it takes to...ship this game.

    --Cory
  • rein4cerein4ce Join Date: 2008-07-05 Member: 64567Members
    Sticking to NS1 is not about fixing the bugs but fixing the gameplay plus instead of wasting time on researching new design ideas and trying to balance them for the next few months you can use something that actually works and just tweak it, and thanks to that start concentrating more on fixing the engine issues.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881418:date=Oct 23 2011, 06:27 PM:name=rein4ce)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rein4ce @ Oct 23 2011, 06:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881418"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sticking to NS1 is not about fixing the bugs but fixing the gameplay plus instead of wasting time on researching new design ideas and trying to balance them for the next few months you can use something that actually works and just tweak it, and thanks to that start concentrating more on fixing the engine issues.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What's wrong with the gameplay? Apart from obviously everything runs like crap and is horribly balanced, which I'd call bugs.

    Otherwise it's pretty much like NS1, a very buggy, badly optimised NS1.
  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881420:date=Oct 23 2011, 05:29 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Oct 23 2011, 05:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881420"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's wrong with the gameplay? Apart from obviously everything runs like crap and is horribly balanced, which I'd call bugs.

    Otherwise it's pretty much like NS1, a very buggy, badly optimised NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ns2 isn't like ns1 at all. It has the same idea what ns1 was about but not actually being anything what ns1 was about. they changed, rebuild the game pretty much as I said before anything from gameplay to aliens themselves. They changed things that did work for years into dumbed-down version you see now. The OP has good points, and its something been said before already but its being ignored and flamed.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    edited October 2011
    There's a few changes yeah but it's mostly the same idea with mostly the same classes and weapons in mostly the same setting.

    I don't think there are any changes I would call significant.

    Certainly not more significant than the changes between the various NS versions, and people generally don't bother to refer to NS1 v1 2 and 3 as distinct when comparing them to NS2.
  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881428:date=Oct 23 2011, 05:54 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Oct 23 2011, 05:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881428"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a few changes yeah but it's mostly the same idea with mostly the same classes and weapons in mostly the same setting.

    <b>I don't think there are any changes I would call significant.</b>

    Certainly not more significant than the changes between the various NS versions, and people generally don't bother to refer to NS1 v1 2 and 3 as distinct when comparing them to NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    dude come on...

    so you compared ns1 builds vs ns2?
    ..
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    edited October 2011
    Well yeah, they made some relatively effective changes between the builds, Like it used to be that you needed more hives to even unlock lifeforms, then they got rid of that, and then maybe they added it back in? I forget now. The maps changed a lot, fades used to be teleporty, then they changed to just flying around, stuff like that.

    NS2 has stuff like arcs being mobile, but that's basically a streamlining of an existing feature whereby you used to rebuild them everywhere, now you just move them. And you've got stuff like buy from armory rather than piles of guns lying around the place. There are changes but there are all pretty similar in idea and effect, just different in precise execution.
  • ShalfaShalfa Join Date: 2011-10-19 Member: 128261Members
    Uhmm.. this guy pretty much explains why you can't stick with the old NS1 gameplay: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH9RhXRLB_M" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH9RhXRLB_M</a>
  • konatakonata Join Date: 2011-08-24 Member: 118296Members
    I got to about 4 minutes and switched off when he started some sort of speech about NS1/NS2.
  • ShalfaShalfa Join Date: 2011-10-19 Member: 128261Members
    Haha xD But still I think he's saying some good stuff, If they just make a remake of NS1 the game will never evolve..
  • konatakonata Join Date: 2011-08-24 Member: 118296Members
    True. Although you don't need to change it that much. Q1 to Q3 there wasn't a lot of change but Q3 was a big improvement.

    If you change things too much, you often lose sight of where you are going, that's sort of what has happened here too.
  • MOOtantMOOtant Join Date: 2010-06-25 Member: 72158Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881415:date=Oct 23 2011, 07:24 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Oct 23 2011, 07:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881415"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We have an internal deadline for when we want to release this game, and we know everything that needs to be done to ship the game, and we are hiring more people and working hard to do everything it takes to...ship this game.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Oh, most of us are talking about it more hypothetically. Let's say that UWE's internal work done goes linearly with time. Since there are more people working it might be even faster.
    Gameplay quality goes up in jumps. 20 builds stay at level X then it jumps to 2X or more and stays so until next 10-20 builds. But people's memory focuses on visible gameplay improvement in last 10-20 builds. If nothing major was at that time - visible to players that is - then extrapolating that progress NS2 would take years to get anywhere. I for instance haven't noticed anything major since ns_summit was added even if 90% game changed under the covers.

    Everyone already has his $35 worth already, it's just pointing out the limits. :)
  • saltybp53saltybp53 Join Date: 2010-07-22 Member: 72675Members
    If your havin' game/budget/nostalgia/beta/release problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 Problems but a game ain't one! *Starts Rapping*

    .....What? Jay-Z anyone?

    I could say just be patient and play other games, but that cards been played too many times. But look at it from the Devs point of view, they have to make sure it appeals to you old vets and accessible enough to new players. Not only that, but they have a small team of about 12 or less, not counting the hot chick tied up in the basement. And look how much progress we made, from a near useless Engine Test, to a half complete game with commander mode and Dynamic Infestation. Going "Back to Basics" won't fix anything, because there's no turning back now.

    To be Honest, I'm half drunk while I type this.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited October 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1881293:date=Oct 22 2011, 05:46 PM:name=RichardRahl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RichardRahl @ Oct 22 2011, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881293"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->spazzing your hand on the spacebar/jump button and moving your mouse left and right with your jumps isn't skill, you look like a retard having an epileptic seizure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    lol
    ::facepalm:: you just lost so many respect points from this side. go play RA3, and let me see you not be in the negatives, then come back and tell me how much you know about skill based movement systems.

    also,
    <!--quoteo(post=1881405:date=Oct 23 2011, 10:06 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Oct 23 2011, 10:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881405"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but everything in it worked nicely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    did we play the same game?
    you must not read gaming news or visit any rage forums.
    besides the countless glitches its known for theres the obvious textures.
    heres over 500 posts dedicated to it:
    <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2154243&page=36" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...243&page=36</a>
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited October 2011
  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881420:date=Oct 23 2011, 07:29 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Oct 23 2011, 07:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881420"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's wrong with the gameplay? Apart from obviously everything runs like crap and is horribly balanced, which I'd call bugs.

    Otherwise it's pretty much like NS1, a very buggy, badly optimised NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm assuming NS2's movement is the biggest thorn in a lot of people's sides right now, as it doesn't even come close to what NS1 had to offer in terms of flexibility\learning-curve. And I would be a proponent in stealing as much of NS1 as possible in that regard, but right now that kinda isn't wise. NS1 movement was pretty contigent on having a solid FPS (100+) and extremely slick and efficient netcode, that was something NS1 got for free with Gldsource, and is what's just taking forever with NS2 (replace netcode with Lua). The question that when the game runs smoother it'll get a serious movement-buff across the board, is what people are mostly looking assurance for right now (in fear of dumbed-down gameplay, a fear that is warranted).
  • moses-moses- Join Date: 2011-10-22 Member: 128826Members
    edited October 2011
    Honestly I think it is hilarious after reading the 4 pages of post's that no-one understands the current state of the game. This is beta, a time for change and constanst development of the game and to get community feedback on the game as it is currently under development. A year from now we might have the perfect game, but threads like this and the OP will not help in any sort of way other than expressing their own rants in anger that they do not have the game they so truely beloved as NS1.

    I am right to the fullest regaurd, as people in my fellow community might say (esea)

    /thread
  • konatakonata Join Date: 2011-08-24 Member: 118296Members
    A beta isn't the time for change and constant development.

    A beta should be that almost finished article which may need tweaking, not to be re-designed over and over for 2 years.

    @Player. "t when the game runs smoother it'll get a serious movement-buff across the board, is what people are mostly looking assurance for right now (in fear of dumbed-down gameplay, a fear that is warranted)."

    Dumbed down movement? You mean, lacking bunnyhop?
  • CygoneCygone Join Date: 2011-05-29 Member: 101528Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881548:date=Oct 24 2011, 08:07 AM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Oct 24 2011, 08:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881548"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A beta isn't the time for change and constant development.

    A beta should be that almost finished article which may need tweaking, not to be re-designed over and over for 2 years.

    @Player. "t when the game runs smoother it'll get a serious movement-buff across the board, is what people are mostly looking assurance for right now (in fear of dumbed-down gameplay, a fear that is warranted)."

    Dumbed down movement? You mean, lacking bunnyhop?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Your difinition of 'Beta' has been distorted by companies such as Blizzard and EA, who use the term 'Beta' as a 'demo' of their product, before shipping to get media coverage.

    The definition of Beta is:

    'A pre-release of software that is given out to a larger group of users to try under real conditions. Beta versions have gone through alpha testing inhouse and are generally fairly close in look, feel and function to the final product; however, design changes often occur as a result.'

    This is accurate of the product to which we are 'testing' our feedback chanages the gameplay, direction and function of this game, and then we test the next 'beta' and improve upon that.
  • CygoneCygone Join Date: 2011-05-29 Member: 101528Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881415:date=Oct 23 2011, 06:24 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Oct 23 2011, 06:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881415"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I appreciate your concern about the money you put in to the pre order, but UWE has a lot more to lose if we go bankrupt, then 35 bucks. Such as our jobs, and all the blood sweat and tears we've put into this game over the past few years. So, we have a pretty big incentive to stay in business and get this game done, and we've taken the necessary steps to do so.

    We have an internal deadline for when we want to release this game, and we know everything that needs to be done to ship the game, and we are hiring more people and working hard to do everything it takes to...ship this game.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If UWE did go bankrupt, I couldn't care less about my $35. I can tell you this; if I look at my Steam games profile I have played about 5x more NS2 than literally every other game on my database, so to me that is good value for money. I can also tell you that most of them cost more than $35, I have about 50 games on their, the only 2 games that I have played more than NS2 are, DOW2/Chaos/Retri at about 1500hours, and CSS at about 6000hours

    For all those in this thread b1tching and moaning, have a look at your Steam Games list, how many games have you played more than NS2? I bet for a lot of you, the answer is relativly few.
  • TrueVeritasTrueVeritas Join Date: 2006-10-20 Member: 58082Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881556:date=Oct 24 2011, 03:14 AM:name=Cygone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cygone @ Oct 24 2011, 03:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881556"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If UWE did go bankrupt, I couldn't care less about my $35. I can tell you this; if I look at my Steam games profile I have played about 5x more NS2 than literally every other game on my database, so to me that is good value for money. I can also tell you that most of them cost more than $35, I have about 50 games on their, the only 2 games that I have played more than NS2 are, DOW2/Chaos/Retri at about 1500hours, and CSS at about 6000hours

    For all those in this thread b1tching and moaning, have a look at your Steam Games list, how many games have you played more than NS2? I bet for a lot of you, the answer is relativly few.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    you probably haven't played many video games
  • CygoneCygone Join Date: 2011-05-29 Member: 101528Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881557:date=Oct 24 2011, 09:27 AM:name=TrueVeritas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrueVeritas @ Oct 24 2011, 09:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881557"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you probably haven't played many video games<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Oh I have, problem is most of them are the same, just a reskinned Quake of SC, gets boring very fast hence the low amount of time playing them.

    Very few games out their are the same as NS2.
  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881548:date=Oct 24 2011, 09:07 AM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Oct 24 2011, 09:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881548"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dumbed down movement? You mean, lacking bunnyhop?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yea I ment in terms of movement-mechanics, but certainly not the lack of bunnyhopping specifically. Bunnyhopping is just one way to enrich the game's movement-gameplay, but if UWE can find alternatives that measure up, power to them. Right now it's no good at all, I think most people would agree with that.
  • zexzex Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881553:date=Oct 24 2011, 08:00 AM:name=Cygone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cygone @ Oct 24 2011, 08:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881553"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The definition of Beta is: 'A pre-release of software that is given out to a larger group of users to try under real conditions. Beta versions have gone through alpha testing inhouse and are generally fairly close in look, feel and function to the final product; however, design changes often occur as a result.'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That is not the definition of beta. 99.99999% of software betas aren't given to the public to test, they are given to paid employees at a QA company. When QA is testing a beta, they are not critiquing the design of the game, they are making sure the game functions as its design specifies. The only real design changes that typically result from QA beta testing are features that were planned but not completed before the beta's due date, and are cut or drastically simplified on agreement with the publisher. In other words Beta is the stage where the publisher <b>pays someone to verify that the game is fully functional</b>. The beta *candidate* must be plausibly "complete" (although it never is in actuality) because that is the entire point of the beta testing process.
  • hamham Join Date: 2011-08-31 Member: 119370Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1881136:date=Oct 22 2011, 01:39 AM:name=SloppyKisses)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SloppyKisses @ Oct 22 2011, 01:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*yawn*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    just incase you didn't realize it, the OP never responded to you because you're an idiot. nothing you said even came close to addressing the points he raised. your argument was so stupid and incoherent you were practically arguing in his favor and you probably didn't even realize it.
  • CygoneCygone Join Date: 2011-05-29 Member: 101528Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881562:date=Oct 24 2011, 09:48 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Oct 24 2011, 09:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is not the definition of beta. 99.99999% of software betas aren't given to the public to test, they are given to paid employees at a QA company. When QA is testing a beta, they are not critiquing the design of the game, they are making sure the game functions as its design specifies. The only real design changes that typically result from QA beta testing are features that were planned but not completed before the beta's due date, and are cut or drastically simplified on agreement with the publisher. In other words Beta is the stage where the publisher <b>pays someone to verify that the game is fully functional</b>. The beta *candidate* must be plausibly "complete" (although it never is in actuality) because that is the entire point of the beta testing process.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It is the definition, I know this because I Googled it, and several sites gave near enough a word-for-word answer the same as the above. Your talking about a 'Closed Beta' not an 'Open Beta'.
This discussion has been closed.