Full (lvl3) Armor Or Full Weapon Upgrade?

Error404 · December 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">If one or the other, which do u choose?</div> <b>If you could only save to have full armor OR a full weapon upgrade, which would you choose, and why?</b>

peacekeeper · December 2002

Weapons.

TomCerul · December 2002

I would say weapons everytime. The best defense is a good offense.

But you folks got me thinking... If my n00b marines get eaten like hot wings, armor might be better. With extra armor, they might be able to stay alive longer... peanuts with shells versus without. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

aN-Azrael · December 2002

lol, good analogy.

~Az

Error404 · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kilmster @ Dec 18 2002, 12:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>neither, i'd get level 2 weapons AND level2 armor for the same price as level 3 armor OR level 3 weapons.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Hey, that is sooo copping out of the question!

Ardesco · December 2002

I normally work on making armor the first priority over weapons initially. Level 1 armor has a significant benefit over having no armor upgrade, as it means the difference between 2 and 3 skulk bites per marine life. Sometimes I like mixing up the order in which I do level 2 armor/weapons upgrade, because in my opinion, the order in which you get level 2 upgrades is largely dependent on what you have right now (hmgs, no fades yet, or fades, etc all play into this consideration). Finally, I always get level 3 armor upgrade first whenever possible, because that allows marines to take a full 4 bites before dying, and usually, in my opinion, level 2 weapons upgrades pretty much do the job--unless your marines can't aim for their lives...but that's another issue entirely <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

BlAcK_PlAgUe22 · December 2002

I'd say weapons. It also upgrades sentries all all that other good stuff, too.

Sling_Blade · December 2002

Armor is always more important than it's equivalent weapon upgrade, and some may argue more important than those above it. It usually takes me 25 bullets starting out to kill a skulk. Give me a weapon upgrade and I can now kill that skulk with 2.5 less bullets! WOW! I'd rather it take them an extra bite to kill me.

rebo · December 2002

I dont usually build an arms lab till both hives are secured anyway <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

ogz · December 2002

well lv3 armor lets u take 4 bites/acid rockets instead of 2 and lv3 weapons lets u kill 30% faster only

this means lv3 armor for rambos and lv3 weapons for very coordinated marines

FlatlineUTD · December 2002

I always get level 2 armor before I start on the weapon upgrades. It's much better, IMHO, to give a soldier an extra 5-7 seconds to fight back against a surprise attack.

The LMG can deal out more damage with the extra time that an armor upgrade allows than an upgraded weapon can, due to the fact that the marine still has to hit the target, and they don't have the protection.

freeo · December 2002

my normal upgrade path is: weapons, weapons, armor, armor, weapons, armor.

why? if they can't reach you, they can't kill you. this is especially true for skulks and onos (though to a lesser extent). it also helps to take down their gorge(s) quickly. fades, however, can be a pain. but by the time i've got weapons level 2 upgraded, armor upgrades are already underway.

i try not to upgrade armory/build an armslab until mid-late game. why spend 25 resources getting ONE ha, another 25 resources getting ONE hmg, when you can just upgrade and get free strong lmgs and las for everybody?

as for the initial question, i'd say weapons level 3. i like the fast kill over "shoot alien, alien runs off and comes for another round" scenario.

EDIT: to add another point... if the aliens have come within melee range of you, you're screwed anyway. even the marine with the greatest aim will have problems shooting a skulk bite-dancing around them. sure you'll live a few bites longer. but during reload, the aliens will feast on a marine mcnugget.

Tazol · December 2002

Weapons.. always. To counter what Flatline said, what if they emptied their lmg and pistol against a lvl 3carapace skulk(it's happened), now he has to reload and that armor ain't gonna help. Usually, marines don't repair each other's armor when they're all in LA, so a skulk may bite him once or twice, so the next skulk can easily kill him. Whereas, if he had level 2 gun upgrades, he may only take two bites, but he'll kill more(that is, if he has a decent aim). So I always go weapons>armor>weapons>armor. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Dead_Dragon · December 2002

Personally, I always go: Armor1, Weap1, Armor2, Weap2, Armor3, Weap3.

Though having said that, I've never been in a public game that has lasted until level 3 of each.

Geronimo · December 2002

Yeah, it doesnt really matter what you choose first, but upgrading both before going to lvl 2 is better , since the costs are to high at that time in the game

Freekill · December 2002

As I usually play defensive Marine or handyman I'd rather pack more punch then take less dmg. Rather the **obscenity** dies before he reaches me alltogether.

EDIT: Ohh and the carpaced gorges are really hard to get without more ppunch

Akfeka · December 2002

Weapons. Level 1 or 2 of armor is nice, but 3 is generally overkill. Also, once you have motion tracking (120 seconds + research time into the game). The ambush bonus armor provides is reduced compared to the first strike help weapons give. But then, when I play, a couple of my friends are on, and we know to keep watch while building...

On the other hand...

I don't know if this has been fixed with a patch, but in screwing around with draw damage on a listenserver, lvl 3 lmgs do 12, not 13, and lvl 3 handguns do 25, not 26. Not really significant in an absolute sense, but it does basically nerf the 3rd level of the weapon upgrade.

Has anyone done this on a dedicated server?

Insidious · December 2002

Depends on how quickly you get the research going. If they are still mostly skulking, armor means you'll live long enough to pump more bullets into a skulk. If they have fades, you want the weapons upgrade because the problem with fades isn't (only) that they kill your men... it's that they heal and do it again. You need as much firepower NOW as you can get. You can't chip away at a fade, it's gotta be all or nothing, and in my experiance, I usually live long enough to empty at least my LMG when fighting a fade - I'd rather that empty LMG be enough for the kill than that I live long enough to die while reloading. It also upgrades turrets, though fades generally don't even get in sight of turrets, due to splash damage attacks. Upgraded turrets do chew up skulks, for what it's worth.

Lumanis · December 2002

You don't do the upgrades to fight skulks.

I do level 1 armor cause it's cheap, then concentrate on weapons.

The trick to killing fades is suprising them.

I know that when I'm a fade, 9/10 times I warp away before they are able to kill me.

But 2 fully upgraded LMG marines who suprise a fade shred him like toilet paper.

Vimstl · December 2002

I would prefer that my commander upgrade weapons over armour. I pretty much always fight in spawn gear, so I'm not too concerned about dying - I just want to take as many critters as possible with me. Against skulks, I don't need armour if the bugger is dead before he reaches me. Once the fades show up, the best way to kill them is 3 or 4 marines working together. Again, I want to put him down as soon as possible.

ALso, weapon upgrades leave me less prone to the "Damn, died while reloading again" phenomenon.

Vimstl · December 2002

I am grateful to have a commander who remembers to upgrade anything. Regrettably, on pub servers the upgrades often don't happen because the comm is using all the resources to turret spam every res node. Sigh . . .

Lumanis · December 2002

I always use rush tactics.

If you ever find me upgrading, its because my rush failed... and the aliens some how didn't manage to finish us off.

Even then, nomally in that position I'm trying for the hail mary (jetpacks / HMGs).

ogz · December 2002

as a skulk, my effectiveness in killin marines diminishes greatly when they get lv1 armour, and even more at lv3 armour.. this is because backstabbing marines gives you 1-2 free hits depending on their reaction time, so i can (at lv0) either kill a marine before he attacks me, or he has 1 bitetime worth of shots at me, while at lv1, he'll get 1-2bitetimes worth, and has probably strafed/dodged someplace by the time i want to get the 3rd bite in..

so as a marine, id rather lv1 armour than lv1 weapons.
upgrades afterthat are arguable, and probably depends on situations
(weapon upgrades for defence, when you're holding a position(s) and armour when you are attacking and sceptible to ambushes)

and peacekeeper is noob

peacekeeper · December 2002

no you are.

If you know where to look it's easy to smack down skulks, but it's next to impossible to kill a half decent skulk that has lvl3 carapace with a non-upgraded lmg.

Narfwak · December 2002

I'd agree with Kilmster and get both to level two, but not higher unless it was really neccessary. Level three costs a ton, and doesn't do that much more. In terms of overall importance, weapons and armor are fairly equal. Weapons kills things faster, and upgrades sentries. Armor gets you live long enough to get said kill. You need both, but not an uber-amount of both (i.e. level three upgrades).

Morose · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If I were to choose the order to go in for my upgrades; it would be armor1, weapon1, weapon2, armor2, weapon3, armor3.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That's exactly the build order that is statistically the most effective too. A buddy and I crunched the numbers, and you get the maximum benefit (because of the rounding issues with damage and such) per upgrade based on the above. The first level weapon upgrade is basically worthless except as a stepping stone to the second with regards to how many shots it takes to get a kill. While the first level armor upgrade is HUGE as it takes the required bites by a skulk/lerk on a marine up from 2 to 3... a 33% increase in survivability.

So... given that information, and answering the initial question posed by the original poster, I guess I would go with Armor. Not to mention the fact that once you get Heavy Armor, the armor upgrade are just plain INSANE with regards to how much they increase survivability.

Leusugi · December 2002

[QUOTE]If you could only save to have full armor OR a full weapon upgrade, which would you choose, and why?[QUOTE]

If I had to choose one I would choose armor. For light weapons, the weapon upgrades don't do a whole lot. For the heavier weapons, it's often overkill and wasted damage. But once you get Heavy Armor, you soon have marines with 290 armor welding each other. <i>Walking tanks.</i> Kinda like baby onos.

NzE · December 2002

i take: armour, weapon, weapon, armour, weapon, armour.

start off with armour first as this will allow your marines to take one extra bite from a skulk. then go weapons as not only does this increase your marines damage, it allows turret to hold areas much easier. two or three skulks attacking an unupgraded turreted area could easily kill the fact (as long as the strafe around). weapon upgrades really stop this :>

Pika-Cthulhu · December 2002

As for copping out by not picking one or the other, I think kilm did a good job, in that you asked if you could only _save_ for one or the other, he takes the middle ground that is by far more effective. By choosing level 2 of both he gives his marines a bit more punch and a bit more defense at the expense of having a bit more damage with less defense or more defense at cost of damage. Id choose lvl 2 of both anyday. All or nothing is a bit of a foolish approach, its like dishing out Heavy armour to LMG marines, or HMG's and GL's to LA marines (Both situation with 0 lvl weapons or armour), they either shoot weaker, or die faster, id rather have the middleground. At least then you can cope with most situations handed to you. Your men last a bit longer against fades, meaning they dont die as often, and can dish out abit more damage, Granted not as much as level 3 weapons, but with lvl 3 weapons they get basic armour and die alot more, thus slowly taking out the fade, or if lvl 3 armour, they can rush the fade but he dies slowly to lvl 0 LMG fire, I think both at lvl 2 would be my option, in that its the better (not best) Of both worlds, that enables your marines a bit more life and a bit more punch.

ogz · December 2002

lv0 only takes a few more bullets than lv3 to kill carapace skulls noob peacekeeper

freeo · December 2002

i don't understand why you would want armor over weapons. if you can't even kill the alien, what's the point of living longer? lets say you and another marine spot a fade and both begin attacking it with level 0 lmgs. you both fire 50 rounds at the fade, and it's still advancing at you. it takes one of you down as you both reload, then turns and flees. they gained a kill, you lost a marine.

what's more important to you: having a marine survive a few swipes/acid rockets longer, or killing a fade and stealing those 44 resources from the aliens?

Full (lvl3) Armor Or Full Weapon Upgrade?

Comments