Just that uwe doesnt sell an unfinished game, they sell a preorder with access to development builds. (engine test, alpha,beta etc.) So you can playtest and contribute to development with your feedback.
<!--quoteo(post=1885941:date=Nov 21 2011, 08:42 AM:name=Electr0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Electr0 @ Nov 21 2011, 08:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885941"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well i just hope we get an update by the end of the month now, there's no one even playing most of the day, they should seriously consider more regular updates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The more updates, the more testing that needs doing to make sure a b0rked version doesn't get out to everyone else, who would them complain even more. UWE would have to keep the updates small and test more; things would actually take longer. With the larger patches such as 188 and the forthcoming 189, you get to make larger steps forward as you can work on much larger parts of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1885947:date=Nov 21 2011, 09:34 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Nov 21 2011, 09:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885947"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just that uwe doesnt sell an unfinished game, they sell a preorder with access to development builds. (engine test, alpha,beta etc.) So you can playtest and contribute to development with your feedback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If only they were more interested in what we had to say. :(
<!--quoteo(post=1885956:date=Nov 21 2011, 03:23 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Nov 21 2011, 03:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885956"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If only they were more interested in what we had to say. :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What gives you the impression that we are uninterested in what the community has to say? There have been countless changes /fixes/additions to the game, some big, some small, based on community feedback, in all aspects of the game. We read through all of the threads, post replies when we are able, and soak in all the comments that people have. A recent example of this is the reworked marine HUD, which went through changes based directly off of some comments and mockups created community members
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1885956:date=Nov 21 2011, 06:23 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Nov 21 2011, 06:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885956"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If only they were more interested in what we had to say. :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm convinced that the team is very interested in all the feedback they get. They seem to answer a big number of posts here in the forums and are using a whole lot of feedback provided through other channels as well. However they can't develop the game just by listening to the customers without having their own vision. Customers don't have one unified opinion and even the loudest opinion is not usually the most common one among the customers. They need to have their own vision how the game is going to be and they need to work towards implementing that one. It might not be the most selling one, but usually the one screamed most by the customers is not that either. And even if everybody in the dev team isn't 100% interested in what we say it is not a bad thing. After all most of them should be developing the game instead of reading the rants.
SloppyKissesomgawd a furreh!VirginiaJoin Date: 2003-07-05Member: 17942Members, Constellation
edited November 2011
What angers me is the pre-order was supposed to give us beta access, to test and play these builds. yet, they also have a behind the scenes NS2 playtesters, testing current progress being worked on, while those who pre-ordered are left behind. I find that slightly crappy, but oh well. >.<
I think everyone who pre-ordered should be entitled to what the NS2 playtesters are given. Just because we pre-ordered the game does not mean we cannot help hunt down bugs and the likes.
adapt ns1 movement, which worked for years wonderfully. Don't compensate with something else. stop shoving combat ideas into NS maps which only results in making the game more and more easy. (i'm looking at you charlie yes!) apply more ns1 ideas into ns2 which worked for years! aka why alien commander?! better graphics doesn't solve gameplay design.
<!--quoteo(post=1885991:date=Nov 21 2011, 02:00 PM:name=SloppyKisses)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SloppyKisses @ Nov 21 2011, 02:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885991"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What angers me is the pre-order was supposed to give us beta access, to test and play these builds. yet, they also have a behind the scenes NS2 playtesters, testing current progress being worked on, while those who pre-ordered are left behind. I find that slightly crappy, but oh well. >.<
I think everyone who pre-ordered should be entitled to what the NS2 playtesters are given. Just because we pre-ordered the game does not mean we cannot help hunt down bugs and the likes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> After we shipped 187 we completely broke the game so we could make some big changes. For most of this time our internal testers couldn't even run the game, so you're not missing anything.
Just saying guys, 188 is coming out of the 29th of November.
I have decided.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Max if you do this then it will show that you care for the community and you may get more people interested!<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What angers me is the pre-order was supposed to give us beta access, to test and play these builds. yet, they also have a behind the scenes NS2 playtesters, testing current progress being worked on, while those who pre-ordered are left behind. I find that slightly crappy, but oh well. >.<<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is far more efficient to use a small group of dedicated playtesters that have the time to test and work out specific bugs. Releasing significantly broken "playtest" builds with potentially game breaking bugs to thousands of pre-orderers, even in beta, is counterproductive. It's better to have a build that is stable than having everybody's game break every week due to unstable playtest builds.
<!--quoteo(post=1885976:date=Nov 21 2011, 05:49 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 21 2011, 05:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885976"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What gives you the impression that we are uninterested in what the community has to say? There have been countless changes /fixes/additions to the game, some big, some small, based on community feedback, in all aspects of the game. We read through all of the threads, post replies when we are able, and soak in all the comments that people have. A recent example of this is the reworked marine HUD, which went through changes based directly off of some comments and mockups created community members
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where is our Cerberi then?
HMM!?
Yeah thats right, its not in the game! *Crosses arms and refuses to listen*
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1886011:date=Nov 21 2011, 10:03 PM:name=Papayas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Papayas @ Nov 21 2011, 10:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Where is our Cerberi then?
HMM!?
Yeah thats right, its not in the game! *Crosses arms and refuses to listen*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/youreallwrong.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> I lolled!
I can't think of any other game that as been developed as interactively with the community as NS2. I think it's a great move on the teams part, it gives a greater sense ownership to the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1885981:date=Nov 21 2011, 03:01 PM:name=Zeikko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeikko @ Nov 21 2011, 03:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885981"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Howevery they can't develop the game just by listening to the customers without having their own vision. Customers don't have one unified opinion and even the loudest opinion is not usually the most common one among the customers. They need to have their own vision how the game is going to be and they need to work towards implementing that one. It might be the most selling one, but usually the one screamed most by the customers is not that either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*clap clap clap* I love reading a well-worded statement that <b>should</b> be common sense, but often isn't. :)
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1885991:date=Nov 21 2011, 04:00 PM:name=SloppyKisses)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SloppyKisses @ Nov 21 2011, 04:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885991"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What angers me is the pre-order was supposed to give us beta access, to test and play these builds. yet, they also have a behind the scenes NS2 playtesters, testing current progress being worked on, while those who pre-ordered are left behind. I find that slightly crappy, but oh well. >.<
I think everyone who pre-ordered should be entitled to what the NS2 playtesters are given. Just because we pre-ordered the game does not mean we cannot help hunt down bugs and the likes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You wouldn't want to play the version playtesters get, it's all broken! The second every bug we can find is fixed, you guys get it.
<!--quoteo(post=1885991:date=Nov 21 2011, 10:00 PM:name=SloppyKisses)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SloppyKisses @ Nov 21 2011, 10:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885991"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What angers me is the pre-order was supposed to give us beta access, to test and play these builds. yet, they also have a behind the scenes NS2 playtesters, testing current progress being worked on, while those who pre-ordered are left behind. I find that slightly crappy, but oh well. >.<
I think everyone who pre-ordered should be entitled to what the NS2 playtesters are given. Just because we pre-ordered the game does not mean we cannot help hunt down bugs and the likes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont agree with you like others above. It's better for us to play a stable release and act as "soft playtesters" since obviously we will find more bugs than during playtests and give feedback on the current build.
I dont know but my hopes fell down a few months ago and now I feel super optimistic and happy to see things moving on.
<!--quoteo(post=1885947:date=Nov 21 2011, 09:34 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Nov 21 2011, 09:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885947"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just that uwe doesnt sell an unfinished game, they sell a preorder with access to development builds. (engine test, alpha,beta etc.) So you can playtest and contribute to development with your feedback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This right here. How many games let you create maps before they've even been released?
Personally, I'm just glad that we're included in the consultation process. True, it's taking very long, but everyone needs to keep in mind that UWE isn't the largest developer in existence. I only wish they released patches a little more regularly. The beta was almost unplayable at first, but people were still willing to test it out!
<!--quoteo(post=1886155:date=Nov 22 2011, 07:06 PM:name=drivesouth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (drivesouth @ Nov 22 2011, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886155"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This right here. How many games let you create maps before they've even been released?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anything on a pre-existing engine. So anything Source/Unreal based right now ultimately.
Just my overall view on the open community game build:
Think of this as a once in a lifetime experience. Not everyone can say they where involved in a modern game from day one. Remember the concept art, It's all becoming reality. What if Picasso released a sketch before he did the painting, Would that awesome fish have round eyes? When you think back to the very beginning and look at the virtual playground coming together and you have an all day pass every day that never expires, It's like a Picasso Painting you can view from behind the canvas,under the paint, see things you never seen and experienced before or may never experience again. That is what UWE is doing for all of us. I to was losing interest, but then I took a moment of my time and looked back at what it started as and know realizing what I could have missed out on. (no I am not Drunk and this is just how I see it)
just remember that 188 is a huge re-build of the engine
as they mentioned, they had to break how many things work and piece it together again.
That basically means until the pieces are all tested/fixed up, the current 188 will have LESS functionality (if it even runs..) and break more often than the current build...
think back on the other times when things became worse after a certain release and how you felt, or the community felt at the time
do you really want them release anything half-baked right now?
<!--quoteo(post=1885941:date=Nov 21 2011, 09:42 AM:name=Electr0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Electr0 @ Nov 21 2011, 09:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885941"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well i just hope we get an update by the end of the month now, there's no one even playing most of the day, they should seriously consider more regular updates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You will see me on there! I'm actuallly getting on more frequently because of the intense anticipation for build 188.
UWE broke the game so they could rebuild it for the better with huge new systems under the hood. It takes time to rebuild, fix, test and sometimes re-fix.
<!--quoteo(post=1886159:date=Nov 22 2011, 05:16 PM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Nov 22 2011, 05:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anything on a pre-existing engine. So anything Source/Unreal based right now ultimately.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not exactly true. You can create the basic geometry but without FGDs for example, you can't use any entities in the source engine.
Sounds like it's almost ready, don't let us down guys, the weekend is nearing and there's nothing more disappointing than you teasing us on twitter and then failing to deliver in time.
<!--quoteo(post=1886483:date=Nov 24 2011, 03:20 PM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Nov 24 2011, 03:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886483"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hmm my NS2 seems to be updating with something :o<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
So you can playtest and contribute to development with your feedback.
The more updates, the more testing that needs doing to make sure a b0rked version doesn't get out to everyone else, who would them complain even more. UWE would have to keep the updates small and test more; things would actually take longer. With the larger patches such as 188 and the forthcoming 189, you get to make larger steps forward as you can work on much larger parts of the game.
So you can playtest and contribute to development with your feedback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If only they were more interested in what we had to say. :(
What gives you the impression that we are uninterested in what the community has to say? There have been countless changes /fixes/additions to the game, some big, some small, based on community feedback, in all aspects of the game. We read through all of the threads, post replies when we are able, and soak in all the comments that people have. A recent example of this is the reworked marine HUD, which went through changes based directly off of some comments and mockups created community members
--Cory
I'm convinced that the team is very interested in all the feedback they get. They seem to answer a big number of posts here in the forums and are using a whole lot of feedback provided through other channels as well.
However they can't develop the game just by listening to the customers without having their own vision. Customers don't have one unified opinion and even the loudest opinion is not usually the most common one among the customers. They need to have their own vision how the game is going to be and they need to work towards implementing that one. It might not be the most selling one, but usually the one screamed most by the customers is not that either.
And even if everybody in the dev team isn't 100% interested in what we say it is not a bad thing. After all most of them should be developing the game instead of reading the rants.
I think everyone who pre-ordered should be entitled to what the NS2 playtesters are given. Just because we pre-ordered the game does not mean we cannot help hunt down bugs and the likes.
eg.
SC2 beta had a few versions for "us". Yet the internal team would have been changing builds every other day.
stop shoving combat ideas into NS maps which only results in making the game more and more easy. (i'm looking at you charlie yes!)
apply more ns1 ideas into ns2 which worked for years! aka why alien commander?!
better graphics doesn't solve gameplay design.
I think everyone who pre-ordered should be entitled to what the NS2 playtesters are given. Just because we pre-ordered the game does not mean we cannot help hunt down bugs and the likes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After we shipped 187 we completely broke the game so we could make some big changes. For most of this time our internal testers couldn't even run the game, so you're not missing anything.
I have decided.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Max if you do this then it will show that you care for the community and you may get more people interested!<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
It is far more efficient to use a small group of dedicated playtesters that have the time to test and work out specific bugs. Releasing significantly broken "playtest" builds with potentially game breaking bugs to thousands of pre-orderers, even in beta, is counterproductive. It's better to have a build that is stable than having everybody's game break every week due to unstable playtest builds.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where is our Cerberi then?
HMM!?
Yeah thats right, its not in the game!
*Crosses arms and refuses to listen*
HMM!?
Yeah thats right, its not in the game!
*Crosses arms and refuses to listen*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/youreallwrong.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> I lolled!
*clap clap clap* I love reading a well-worded statement that <b>should</b> be common sense, but often isn't. :)
I think everyone who pre-ordered should be entitled to what the NS2 playtesters are given. Just because we pre-ordered the game does not mean we cannot help hunt down bugs and the likes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You wouldn't want to play the version playtesters get, it's all broken! The second every bug we can find is fixed, you guys get it.
You're having fun, ideally. Us? Not so much.
I think everyone who pre-ordered should be entitled to what the NS2 playtesters are given. Just because we pre-ordered the game does not mean we cannot help hunt down bugs and the likes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont agree with you like others above.
It's better for us to play a stable release and act as "soft playtesters" since obviously we will find more bugs than during playtests and give feedback on the current build.
I dont know but my hopes fell down a few months ago and now I feel super optimistic and happy to see things moving on.
So you can playtest and contribute to development with your feedback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This right here. How many games let you create maps before they've even been released?
Personally, I'm just glad that we're included in the consultation process. True, it's taking very long, but everyone needs to keep in mind that UWE isn't the largest developer in existence. I only wish they released patches a little more regularly. The beta was almost unplayable at first, but people were still willing to test it out!
Anything on a pre-existing engine. So anything Source/Unreal based right now ultimately.
Think of this as a once in a lifetime experience. Not everyone can say they where involved in a modern game from day one. Remember the concept art, It's all becoming reality. What if Picasso released a sketch before he did the painting, Would that awesome fish have round eyes? When you think back to the very beginning and look at the virtual playground coming together and you have an all day pass every day that never expires, It's like a Picasso Painting you can view from behind the canvas,under the paint, see things you never seen and experienced before or may never experience again. That is what UWE is doing for all of us. I to was losing interest, but then I took a moment of my time and looked back at what it started as and know realizing what I could have missed out on. (no I am not Drunk and this is just how I see it)
as they mentioned, they had to break how many things work and piece it together again.
That basically means until the pieces are all tested/fixed up, the current 188 will have LESS functionality (if it even runs..) and break more often than the current build...
think back on the other times when things became worse after a certain release and how you felt, or the community felt at the time
do you really want them release anything half-baked right now?
You will see me on there! I'm actuallly getting on more frequently because of the intense anticipation for build 188.
Like the marines, UWE build for the future. :)
Not exactly true. You can create the basic geometry but without FGDs for example, you can't use any entities in the source engine.
Sounds like it's almost ready, don't let us down guys, the weekend is nearing and there's nothing more disappointing than you teasing us on twitter and then failing to deliver in time.
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