<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are also quite a lot of places that have "holes" (that reveal the orange skybox) visible from long distance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My understanding from talking to some of the playtesters is that even some of the unreleased maps have this same issue, and will probably be something that UWE has to fix. The rooms just go a little bit too far and the current occlusion system doesnt render it all correctly. Im not too worried about those problems until the new occlusion system gets put in.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1878972:date=Oct 9 2011, 12:57 PM:name=Jonacrab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jonacrab @ Oct 9 2011, 12:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1878972"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My understanding from talking to some of the playtesters is that even some of the unreleased maps have this same issue, and will probably be something that UWE has to fix. The rooms just go a little bit too far and the current occlusion system doesnt render it all correctly. Im not too worried about those problems until the new occlusion system gets put in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah! Thanks for clearing it up.
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Edit:<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Just a few tips I'd like to suggest:
The pathway (the stairway in the rocks) between Smelting and Excavation doesn't look, nor function too well as a main path. The vent above the tram gate also feels odd. The fence enclosing the elevated tram track is turning the area into an alien refuge difficult for Marines to access.
I think a great way to fix all those issues would be to open the tramway gate (between Excav and Smelting), and use that as the main path. An access ramp can be added to link the two elevations.
Some people have seen that there was a newer version of descent running, (beta015) and wondered if I was going to release it. I wasnt planning on it, but If you guys want it I can. The only difference between 01 and 015 is that i fixed the pathing issue where macs couldnt get into excavation or into tram station. Visually its identical, I just made some adjustments at the request of some people so they could scrim it on monday. I have asked the inversion guys to keep version 01 up on their server, unless you guys would like the updated version.
I havent seen alot of public play on the map, and most of the balance suggestions are coming from the few scrims that are being played. But if you guys want it I can put a link up, just let me know.
This week I am mostly tackling visual changes, I have no plans to adjust balance at this point, but if you have suggestions let me know. I believe I will release a new version this weekend.
Yeah I must say with the power grid changes you've made, the tram remake, and power core changes I feel like the map is strongly headed in the right direction. Until we can play many more games on it, I don't have any further balance suggestions yet.
I wish UWE could implement a map rotation feature so this map could get more public play. It plays really well and performance wise it works better for me than summit. Hopefully UWE can accept this map soon with the rotation feature and I'm sure people will be playing the hell out of it.
My last bit of critique though is this: I think you should put up signs in Marine start. I have a feeling that as people first start playing the map on marines, there is confusion as to which exit to take for either crew or maintenance side. I think this has to deal with the minimap icon facing south of the map, as you're looking at either or both of the exits:
I think a pretty simple solution would be to insert a couple signs within marine start so people can easily pick up direction, and re-assert direction so it becomes second nature faster than normal:
I would assume this is a small cosmetic change. This may seem like nit-picking, cause it slightly is. But I think the map overall is a great map and playing on it has been a blast so far. I would only make this suggestion so it gives players a better starting point, helping them learn the map faster.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure if others have mentioned this yet or not; but I am getting rather large FPS drops in the maintenance/fissure area(s).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you experience those issues, (which i hear it occasionally but not much, my machine sux and the map plays fine mostly) try turning r_wireframe on, it will show you what is being rendered, and if you see some room in the distance that is not connected to the room you are in, then the issue has to do with occlusion culling(I have tried this, and there are alot of times where there are just blatantly bad rendering choices that the system is making). The current system is not great, and they are working on putting in a new one that should help solve those issues. If that doesnt seem to be the issue, I will keep that in mind as I am working on it to improve those things, but keep in mind there are still alot of optimizations to be made to the game, so its a bit futile for me to downgrade the quality of the map in the interim.
I have tried out this map with about 8 players, and I do really enjoy the map, and the way it looks. I was commanding, and it didn't take long to realise the map is to big for 8 players. Let's hope UW can get the performance up so we can have some 32 player games in this map ;-)
Yeah, so far the people who have scrimmed on the map think that it should be balanced for 6v6, but less than that probably not gonna get a great game out of it. Most people tend to initially think that the map is too big, but I believe that is just a biased opinion that comes from playing only summit to this point :P Im currently working on getting the visuals up to par, It shouldnt be too long before I can release a finished version of the map. (that is until the game changes force me to change things)
In a couple of weeks probably, its coming but the final stages are always the hardest to complete. Its mostly visual changes, although you will see some layout changes, and Im starting to rethink how I might use random spawn locations, which might require some RT and layout changes. Hopefully I can finish within a week or two, but dont hold me to it :P im working hard on it.
<!--quoteo(post=1886882:date=Nov 25 2011, 04:53 PM:name=Jonacrab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jonacrab @ Nov 25 2011, 04:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886882"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In a couple of weeks probably, its coming but the final stages are always the hardest to complete. Its mostly visual changes, although you will see some layout changes, and Im starting to rethink how I might use random spawn locations, which might require some RT and layout changes. Hopefully I can finish within a week or two, but dont hold me to it :P im working hard on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was going to ask you what you were planning on doing now random spawns have been put in? I have a feeling that some maps people are working on might have to be re-jigged. I know I nearly compleatly scrapped the map I had worked on for the last month or so. As soon as I saw random spawns, I knew I could make the map a million times better. I hope to have something to show by New Year/mid Jan. (Fingers crossed)
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
I think an interesting scenario for this map could be; Static marine start. Hive spawns in Tram Tunnels/Excavation/Alien Start I think it would be too hard for marines to gain any map control if aliens were able to get Power Core as first hive. Really looking forward to more updates, this map has great potential.
<!--quoteo(post=1891960:date=Dec 28 2011, 10:55 AM:name=vlnc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vlnc @ Dec 28 2011, 10:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891960"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah another new map is coming !<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, the map isn't new, it's been around for some time :)
A new version of it is coming would be a better statement! hehe
We are setting up a little online web gallery for everyone to get a sneak peak at some of the updated rooms/polish throughout the map. Stay tuned for an update by Jona!
<b>HERE WE GO! Everyone check out some of the new shots of descent beta27!</b> <a href="http://www.jodriscoll.com/Gaming/NS2/Descent-b27/" target="_blank">http://www.jodriscoll.com/Gaming/NS2/Descent-b27/</a>
visionz asked me to comment on the screenshots and heres what i wrote. hope it helps in some way
- lighting is nice, in some screenshots you got spotlight without a light prop where it comes froms (e.g. scr. 3+4). scr. 7 (excavation-02) you got a floor that is way too even for that kind of floor. scr. 45, awesome geometry! - all in all the map looks awesome - have played the first beta a while ago, cant remember if the map is balanced though - all in all the map is way too clean(?) cant find a word to describe it properly - its a huge facility, but you cant see that there were really humans there, working, maybe living - i would like to see more evidence of humans actually working there - maybe personalize some terminals, like pics of woman hanging around - garbage laying around - and i would like to see more damaged parts in the map. it looks like its all working fine and properly, but maybe thats on purpose. that facility doesnt have to look damaged when the aliens just invaded it
It does have a "clean" feel to it, that was on purpose for the most part, originally the map was called lockdown, as if the kharra had just invaded the facility, and the marines had cut off access to some parts of the facility to contain them. The map was intended that way, which is why through certain parts you cross over the tram rails. That being said, alien start (formerly called "research" now called "fabrication") will be a bit more dirty, im working with some broken glass props and others to get that feeling.
All in all, this is merely another "pass" on the map, the first playable version was to test balance, and this release will be a full visual upgrade, and as i get feedback from the community I will make changes. So if you have comments, please post them.
The map looks awesome, I just hope you srunk it down a bit since the last release as I remember playing it and it was waaay too big (marines couldn't get back from the first 2 RTs in time to defend the base)
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1892099:date=Dec 30 2011, 11:42 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Dec 30 2011, 11:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892099"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The map looks awesome, I just hope you srunk it down a bit since the last release as I remember playing it and it was waaay too big (marines couldn't get back from the first 2 RTs in time to defend the base)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm quite sure the marines were further away from the base in that game, if you're talking the round where you got us all spotted in the vent, and we went the other way around to attack the base ;D
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
Still working on the release? :) We would love to have it on the gather system on <a href="http://www.ensl.org" target="_blank">ensl</a>. And in the database we created to give the community an alternative to browsing the forums for files. <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115619" target="_blank">Maps/Mods Database</a> Anyway, looking forward to it!
Comments
My understanding from talking to some of the playtesters is that even some of the unreleased maps have this same issue, and will probably be something that UWE has to fix. The rooms just go a little bit too far and the current occlusion system doesnt render it all correctly. Im not too worried about those problems until the new occlusion system gets put in.
Ah! Thanks for clearing it up.
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Edit:<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Just a few tips I'd like to suggest:
The pathway (the stairway in the rocks) between Smelting and Excavation doesn't look, nor function too well as a main path. The vent above the tram gate also feels odd. The fence enclosing the elevated tram track is turning the area into an alien refuge difficult for Marines to access.
I think a great way to fix all those issues would be to open the tramway gate (between Excav and Smelting), and use that as the main path. An access ramp can be added to link the two elevations.
I havent seen alot of public play on the map, and most of the balance suggestions are coming from the few scrims that are being played. But if you guys want it I can put a link up, just let me know.
This week I am mostly tackling visual changes, I have no plans to adjust balance at this point, but if you have suggestions let me know. I believe I will release a new version this weekend.
I wish UWE could implement a map rotation feature so this map could get more public play. It plays really well and performance wise it works better for me than summit. Hopefully UWE can accept this map soon with the rotation feature and I'm sure people will be playing the hell out of it.
My last bit of critique though is this: I think you should put up signs in Marine start. I have a feeling that as people first start playing the map on marines, there is confusion as to which exit to take for either crew or maintenance side. I think this has to deal with the minimap icon facing south of the map, as you're looking at either or both of the exits:
<a href="http://www.lightsinabox.com/ns2/2011-10-11_00002.jpg" target="_blank">Minimap icon example</a>
Slightly disorienting...
I think a pretty simple solution would be to insert a couple signs within marine start so people can easily pick up direction, and re-assert direction so it becomes second nature faster than normal:
Place exit or direction signs:
<a href="http://www.lightsinabox.com/ns2/2011-10-11_00003.jpg" target="_blank">Here</a>
<a href="http://www.lightsinabox.com/ns2/2011-10-11_00004.jpg" target="_blank">and Here</a>
I would assume this is a small cosmetic change. This may seem like nit-picking, cause it slightly is. But I think the map overall is a great map and playing on it has been a blast so far. I would only make this suggestion so it gives players a better starting point, helping them learn the map faster.
=)
If you experience those issues, (which i hear it occasionally but not much, my machine sux and the map plays fine mostly) try turning r_wireframe on, it will show you what is being rendered, and if you see some room in the distance that is not connected to the room you are in, then the issue has to do with occlusion culling(I have tried this, and there are alot of times where there are just blatantly bad rendering choices that the system is making). The current system is not great, and they are working on putting in a new one that should help solve those issues. If that doesnt seem to be the issue, I will keep that in mind as I am working on it to improve those things, but keep in mind there are still alot of optimizations to be made to the game, so its a bit futile for me to downgrade the quality of the map in the interim.
Thanks for the feedback.
I was going to ask you what you were planning on doing now random spawns have been put in? I have a feeling that some maps people are working on might have to be re-jigged. I know I nearly compleatly scrapped the map I had worked on for the last month or so. As soon as I saw random spawns, I knew I could make the map a million times better. I hope to have something to show by New Year/mid Jan. (Fingers crossed)
Static marine start.
Hive spawns in Tram Tunnels/Excavation/Alien Start
I think it would be too hard for marines to gain any map control if aliens were able to get Power Core as first hive.
Really looking forward to more updates, this map has great potential.
This is still by far, the best performing map I've come across and it's larger in size than any map available to the public right now.
Well, the map isn't new, it's been around for some time :)
A new version of it is coming would be a better statement! hehe
<b>HERE WE GO! Everyone check out some of the new shots of descent beta27!</b>
<a href="http://www.jodriscoll.com/Gaming/NS2/Descent-b27/" target="_blank">http://www.jodriscoll.com/Gaming/NS2/Descent-b27/</a>
- lighting is nice, in some screenshots you got spotlight without a light prop where it comes froms (e.g. scr. 3+4). scr. 7 (excavation-02) you got a floor that is way too even for that kind of floor. scr. 45, awesome geometry!
- all in all the map looks awesome
- have played the first beta a while ago, cant remember if the map is balanced though
- all in all the map is way too clean(?) cant find a word to describe it properly
- its a huge facility, but you cant see that there were really humans there, working, maybe living
- i would like to see more evidence of humans actually working there
- maybe personalize some terminals, like pics of woman hanging around - garbage laying around
- and i would like to see more damaged parts in the map. it looks like its all working fine and properly, but maybe thats on purpose. that facility doesnt have to look damaged when the aliens just invaded it
its just copy and paste from steam chat^^
All in all, this is merely another "pass" on the map, the first playable version was to test balance, and this release will be a full visual upgrade, and as i get feedback from the community I will make changes. So if you have comments, please post them.
I'm quite sure the marines were further away from the base in that game, if you're talking the round where you got us all spotted in the vent, and we went the other way around to attack the base ;D
Can't wait to play it, looks awsome.
We would love to have it on the gather system on <a href="http://www.ensl.org" target="_blank">ensl</a>.
And in the database we created to give the community an alternative to browsing the forums for files.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115619" target="_blank">Maps/Mods Database</a>
Anyway, looking forward to it!