Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1915139:date=Mar 19 2012, 08:13 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Mar 19 2012, 08:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's true, modders for this (almost completely undocumented) game would be a prime example. Still, the callousness to just throw that code out there, and have it be user-friendly to boot, I'd sit on it (who knows, I might be sitting on an aimbot right now...).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm getting more and more concerned about the contents of the next-gen Overmind :P
<!--quoteo(post=1914845:date=Mar 18 2012, 06:51 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 18 2012, 06:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Uhh. I've been averaging 1 or 2 hours per day for the past 4 or 5 months and I've never seen a botter. Now also consider the fact that pretty much every other known player has said they haven't seen a botter. Now you have thousands of hours over the past few months claiming to have never seen a botter.
What's more likely -- That all the experienced players are wrong about botters or that a couple random people have magically seen cheaters that nobody else can?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If all the regulars were complaining about aimbots i would take it seriously. There are about 50 of us that play a ridiculous number of hours and for the most part we all know each other and as GORGous said, none of these players are reporting aimbotters.
Yeah I think as said before 100% of the people complaining are doing it because of the lag. Sometimes I'll get insta killed, or if I'm shooting at someone who's far away and/or hiding, I'll shoot at them for a bit and they won't move at all, as if they don't notice, then I kill them. The only person I've ever seen get complaints about hacking is Fana, and oh boy was there a lot of crying lol. Although that was a while ago, haven't seen him in forever.
Even if i would see something suspicious i wouldnt report it on forums or whatever, the thing is there is no way to analyze it and back your claims up(no demo recording or firstperson view) so it would make you look like an paranoid idiot most of the time since its nearly impossible to make footage to support your claims.
Especially if its not something more obvious like an aimbot - there is a lot stuff possible even if you dont have any programming knowledge. I can see how it would be nice to have something against those easy cheats rather sooner than later.
<!--quoteo(post=1915179:date=Mar 19 2012, 12:24 PM:name={GGs} Chicken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ({GGs} Chicken @ Mar 19 2012, 12:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915179"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah I think as said before 100% of the people complaining are doing it because of the lag. Sometimes I'll get insta killed, or if I'm shooting at someone who's far away and/or hiding, I'll shoot at them for a bit and they won't move at all, as if they don't notice, then I kill them. The only person I've ever seen get complaints about hacking is Fana, and oh boy was there a lot of crying lol. Although that was a while ago, haven't seen him in forever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sometimes when i die to players in match i WANT to call hacking because of how absurd the kill was. But i just calmly count the bullets they fire next time i face them, and i've never seen anyone with a more than 60% hit rate with the marine weapons.
It may feel unfair, you may want to say they're hacking, but in all probability they weren't and you just got lol-dead.
<!--quoteo(post=1914947:date=Mar 19 2012, 05:05 AM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 19 2012, 05:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914947"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Forums are nothing but opinions. Welcome to the internet.
Still zero confirmed botters in NS2 AFAIK.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Without a reason to think otherwise, many people assume others are legit. By itself, there's nothing wrong with that. When you take that a step further and assume <i>everyone</i> is legit until proven otherwise, as you're doing, you're making a bad assumption. An example of another bad assumption would be to say <i>no one</i> is playing fair until proven otherwise. For context, over the last decade in FPS hundreds of thousands if not upwards of a million cheaters have been caught. Currently, there's no method to confirm if someone is cheating in NS2 in normal circumstances. However, we do know two things: 1) Cheating is possible and 2) You wouldn't know it if it happened to you on a daily basis. To put it simply, an unfalsifiable assumption is a bad one. If that is indeed your point, that there are no confirmed aimbotters, congratulations on your fatuous realization. While posting the most you've managed to contribute the least to the discussion. That brings me to my point, which I'm afraid you still don't get.
The difference between you and everyone else in this thread that's made the non-argument of "I have never seen an aimbotter yet", is they have been content with giving their piece once. You, on the other hand, seem to be compelled to repeat your opinion until everyone is in deference. I linked you to the article on grandiosity not because it's relevant to the OP's point, not that he has one, this is a troll thread, but because it's relevant to my point. Enlighten me, if you don't think your opinion matters more than everyone elses, if you don't think you're being pompous, why are you repeating it? We know what you think, you aren't adding anything constructive to this discussion by repeating yourself. If not grandiosity, what?
<!--quoteo(post=1914591:date=Mar 18 2012, 07:55 AM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 18 2012, 07:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have not seen a single person botting, aimbotting, wallhacking, speedhacking, or any other kind of hacking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914811:date=Mar 18 2012, 07:46 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 18 2012, 07:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Again, I have never seen anyone cheating in NS2. Only whiners explaining their defeat with an excuse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914845:date=Mar 18 2012, 08:51 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 18 2012, 08:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've been averaging 1 or 2 hours per day for the past 4 or 5 months and I've never seen a botter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
early in the beta i used to think people were aimbotting, especially one time someone from inv (maybe it was tempest? idk) walked into crevice on summit while i was on the ceiling far above him and instantly sniped me with a pistol. I was totally furious until i realized he probably looked at his minimap before he came in the room.
<!--quoteo(post=1915323:date=Mar 20 2012, 12:56 AM:name=hampton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hampton @ Mar 20 2012, 12:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Without a reason to think otherwise, many people assume others are legit. By itself, there's nothing wrong with that. When you take that a step further and assume <i>everyone</i> is legit until proven otherwise, as you're doing, you're making a bad assumption. An example of another bad assumption would be to say <i>no one</i> is playing fair until proven otherwise. For context, over the last decade in FPS hundreds of thousands if not upwards of a million cheaters have been caught. Currently, there's no method to confirm if someone is cheating in NS2 in normal circumstances. However, we do know two things: 1) Cheating is possible and 2) You wouldn't know it if it happened to you on a daily basis. To put it simply, an unfalsifiable assumption is a bad one. If that is indeed your point, that there are no confirmed aimbotters, congratulations on your fatuous realization. While posting the most you've managed to contribute the least to the discussion. That brings me to my point, which I'm afraid you still don't get.
The difference between you and everyone else in this thread that's made the non-argument of "I have never seen an aimbotter yet", is they have been content with giving their piece once. You, on the other hand, seem to be compelled to repeat your opinion until everyone is in deference. I linked you to the article on grandiosity not because it's relevant to the OP's point, not that he has one, this is a troll thread, but because it's relevant to my point. Enlighten me, if you don't think your opinion matters more than everyone elses, if you don't think you're being pompous, why are you repeating it? We know what you think, you aren't adding anything constructive to this discussion by repeating yourself. If not grandiosity, what?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I responded directly to others posting. I have 6 posts on this thread (of 67 total posts). 4 of the 6 are responding directly to your trolling. You have 6 posts as well with 5 of them being direct, childish remarks toward me. So we have a combined 9 posts, 10 with this one, (please note that is 5x as many posts as it took to upset you) due to you being immature, irrelevant, and a general troll. Here's to returning the favor.
The difference between you and the rest of us, is we're actually talking about the topic. You are solely talking about me.
And finally, since you seem to be obsessed with me, I've quoted for you all the players who are in agreement on this issue. Amazingly, they're basically saying exactly the same thing that I said! Some of them even had the audacity to post twice in a single thread. Are you going to throw a tantrum with them as well, or are you solely fixated on me? Would you like to talk about it? I bet talking about your feelings would help you manage these embarrassing outbursts.
<!--quoteo(post=1914544:date=Mar 18 2012, 06:33 AM:name=shiv)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shiv @ Mar 18 2012, 06:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914544"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are people who have played 100s of hours of NS2 and 100s if not 1000s of hours of NS1 or other FPS games. They have better aim and better reflexes than you, and more than likely a better computer. You were simply outplayed and now you're here on the forums complaining about hacks. Unless you have proof of cheating/hacking you should stop whining and go back to practicing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914599:date=Mar 18 2012, 10:57 AM:name=ubikjam)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ubikjam @ Mar 18 2012, 10:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914599"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really doubt this is an issue at the moment when there's only 100 or so people playing at a time, i've never noticed it. The only reason i'd like some anti-cheat is because people keep accusing each other of cheating in game and getting irrate. As soon as marines build a forward obs you know the "marine wall hack" complaints will start. It's like a microcosm for self-confirming superstitions...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914600:date=Mar 18 2012, 11:07 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Mar 18 2012, 11:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914600"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because a player is good doesn't mean they use an aimbot. Yes, it's possible (and fairly easy) to make an aimbot, but I haven't seen one yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914615:date=Mar 18 2012, 12:41 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Mar 18 2012, 12:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914615"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I haven't seen anything suspect. It's not like Battlefield 3 which I gave up because there were so many hackers with 50 kills and one or two deaths.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914737:date=Mar 18 2012, 06:48 PM:name=LV426-Colonist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LV426-Colonist @ Mar 18 2012, 06:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because someone can actually aim and you can't; that doesn't make them cheaters.
Now just stfu until you give us proof for justification.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914740:date=Mar 18 2012, 06:52 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Mar 18 2012, 06:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not this argument again. *facepalm*
You know, if we started having consequences for people who called hacks all over the forums without concrete proof, I think we'd see the instances of "aimbotting" in NS2 decrease significantly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914788:date=Mar 18 2012, 09:00 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Mar 18 2012, 09:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914788"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, while I don't doubt NS2 aimbots do exist, its doubtful that you've encountered one. The combination of lag + obs motion tracking + good shooter skills can make it seem like their aimbotting you, but their not. One serious hitch in combat can make it seem like you got one-shotted from around the corner.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914827:date=Mar 18 2012, 10:26 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Mar 18 2012, 10:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914827"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have about 200 hours and have played almost all the patches since the beginning.
Cannot remember any instance where someone was obviously using an aimbot. The closest to cheating I've seen was when people exploited glitches like the skulk hyper bite or flying outside maps. None of those things exist anymore to my knowledge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914851:date=Mar 18 2012, 10:59 PM:name=eh?)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eh? @ Mar 18 2012, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914851"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I doubt being told you're not aiming well is going to convince you, but I can't say I've seen anyone actually cheating since way back in the 16x builds. Keep in mind players like shiv and a number of others have been playing since then too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soul_Rider "Just to clarify, I don't think people are aimbotting, but it would be easy enough to write the code to be 'just less' than perfect."
Dusk "If all the regulars were complaining about aimbots i would take it seriously. There are about 50 of us that play a ridiculous number of hours and for the most part we all know each other and as GORGous said, none of these players are reporting aimbotters."
{GGs} Chicken "Yeah I think as said before 100% of the people complaining are doing it because of the lag. Sometimes I'll get insta killed, or if I'm shooting at someone who's far away and/or hiding, I'll shoot at them for a bit and they won't move at all, as if they don't notice, then I kill them. The only person I've ever seen get complaints about hacking is Fana, and oh boy was there a lot of crying lol. Although that was a while ago, haven't seen him in forever."
Its actually pretty damn cheap to use the mini map in certain occasions. I'll be "spotting" someone on the minimap and I would never have guessed they were there. A quick burst and he's dead.
The only time I've seen something really fishy is a dude going 40-2 with a shotty and 400 ping the entire game. I never got to personally fight him so I wasn't able to see if he ever missed, that and his com was very good at putting down pings and forward obs. Even then, I don't know if an aim bot will help a 400 ping player, so something must have been wrong with that reading. Shrug it off, tell the guy to lay off the itchy trigger finger or join aliens so the pubs can actually have fun. Its that or hop to a different server.
Oh, the good ole times of constant hackusations I had to deal with in my tactical realism servers I used to frequent (not usually against me but well established members of the community). Cannot wait till combat fps is improved so I can hear more whining. Let the good times roll gentlemen.
<!--quoteo(post=1914749:date=Mar 18 2012, 07:10 PM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Mar 18 2012, 07:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914749"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All those who cry about aimbots, just go and look some Quake or Unreal vids: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiolB5OCyeU&feature=youtube_gdata_player" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiolB5OCyeU...be_gdata_player</a>
So if you have a player that can aim as fast as these guys NS2 it would look like an aimbot.
But on the other side, if you take a look at modern Aimbots lile this:
So I was curious how difficult it would be to write something malicious, and went ahead and spent the morning scripting.
The fruits of my labour: <img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38570801/Wallhack.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
What you're looking at is a fully-functional wall-hack, that displays distance to the player, names\class-types and even hp\armor and ammo. It's entirely client-side, works on all vanilla servers, and is build-independent (I live to serve).
While highly amusing, it was childs-play, and any half-competent Lua-scripter will have no issue reproducing what I built. So I guess the statement that there are no cheats\hacks for this game has hereby been invalidated, and the devs really should look at implementing that script-consistency check.
Also, don't be a complete ###### by asking for this script.
While its easy to code hacks for this game, I haven't seen anybody so noob and rage-y enough to code an aimbot for this beta game thus far. I'm sure the issue willl be addressed in the future when there are hackers but for now, don't whine cause you can't aim.
lol @player that might make a good addition to spectating would be nice to have something like that and im sure ns2hd would appreciate it although im sure it can be cleaned up so its not all on one line. i say submit that script to the uw team and i hope they can add something along those lines for spectators when in free look mode.
<!--quoteo(post=1915376:date=Mar 20 2012, 01:37 PM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Mar 20 2012, 01:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915376"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that aimbot shows theres still a delay in the aiming - so still misses
so some good players prolly aim better than that aim bot :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is called a Humanised Aimbot. You can change the hit rate from 100% to 0% just as you like. Or it switches from headaiming to the chest, so that you won't have HS all the time etc. Makes it almost undetectable when spectating.
@Player congrats you are now the first official Wallhacker in the NS2 comu with proof. \o/ Hehe
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this should really be addressed before people become more and more paranoid (for a reason).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, but I don't think it should be addressed only by technical measure, what we really need is some kind of formal procedure to complain about cheaters. If I remember well on iccup (sc1, ...) you can fill a form for this, giving the replay file and some details on the game. Then the admins look at it, study the case, and apply appropriate sanctions if needed.
Since we don't have replay yet, the only thing we can provide is screenshots and videos. A forum subsection would be a convenient place to manage cheats cases.
<!--quoteo(post=1915433:date=Mar 20 2012, 10:48 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Mar 20 2012, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, but I don't think it should be addressed only by technical measure, what we really need is some kind of formal procedure to complain about cheaters. If I remember well on iccup (sc1, ...) you can fill a form for this, giving the replay file and some details on the game. Then the admins look at it, study the case, and apply appropriate sanctions if needed.
Since we don't have replay yet, the only thing we can provide is screenshots and videos. A forum subsection would be a convenient place to manage cheats cases.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem with screenshots is that they don't show anything. You kinda need hard proof. Only way to get that is by recording the player from first person view. Even then it is very hard to spot a wallhack in ns.
But I'm sure this will be addressed when the game gets closer to release.
Every competitive fps game has a huge hacking problem. I have already stated that ns2 does not have a hacking problem right now but it will eventually. The only realistic way to control this is to have dedicated servers. Active communities tend to keep the problem under control on their servers. VAC can be useful but it takes about 6 months for VAC bans to kick in. VAC doesn't control the problem, it just punishes hackers eventually. So if anyone has a problem just let the admin of the server you play on know. When D|S, #156, -[420]-, and inversion start reporting hackers on their servers then we can officially say the problem has begun.
<!--quoteo(post=1915511:date=Mar 20 2012, 02:25 PM:name=Dusk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dusk @ Mar 20 2012, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Every competitive fps game has a huge hacking problem. I have already stated that ns2 does not have a hacking problem right now but it will eventually. The only realistic way to control this is to have dedicated servers. Active communities tend to keep the problem under control on their servers. VAC can be useful but it takes about 6 months for VAC bans to kick in. VAC doesn't control the problem, it just punishes hackers eventually. So if anyone has a problem just let the admin of the server you play on know. When D|S, #156, -[420]-, and inversion start reporting hackers on their servers then we can officially say the problem has begun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, definitely.
The community is small enough where hacking on one server can easily get you banned from every other server.
I personally liked UT2k4's system of cheat detection in TAM. You had the built in anti-cheat (antiTCC for ut2k4) but some servers also employed random first person screenshots 2-3 times per player per game. The screenshots were stored in small jpgs and could be consulted if someone was suspicious. It picks up wall hackers really quickly and any botter with an overlay will get nailed quickly as well. Obviously not unbeatable anticheat, but it caught a lot of kiddies.
The screenshot systems can work, but they also sometimes have issues. I was banned by punkbuster for an issue with their screenshot system, where it basically took the screenshots mid-frame at times, and a bunch of the stuff was not drawn onscreen yet. Generally speaking pay to play games that use dedicated servers dont have nearly the problems with hackers like f2p or p2p games. Thats not to say that it should be ignored, but more that banning of players should be handled on a server to server basis. Once first person spectate is implemented it is generally very easy to tell who is cheating, even 'human aimbots' are easy to spot once you look at how a person plays overall.
Getting globally banned from a game because your better than some upset admin gets old very quickly, and there are several games i can think of where that has happened.
<!--quoteo(post=1915511:date=Mar 20 2012, 12:25 PM:name=Dusk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dusk @ Mar 20 2012, 12:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have already stated that ns2 does not have a hacking problem right now but it will eventually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What method do you have to know whether someone is cheating in NS2 that everyone else doesn't? You're making the same bad assumption as the other gentleman. It was just demonstrated today that it is indeed easy to cheat, my first point. Is the second point difficult to understand?
<!--quoteo(post=1915323:date=Mar 19 2012, 10:56 PM:name=hampton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hampton @ Mar 19 2012, 10:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Currently, there's no method to confirm if someone is cheating in NS2 in normal circumstances. However, we do know two things: 1) Cheating is possible and 2) You wouldn't know it if it happened to you on a daily basis.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1915566:date=Mar 20 2012, 12:32 PM:name=hampton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hampton @ Mar 20 2012, 12:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915566"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What method do you have to know whether someone is cheating in NS2 that everyone else doesn't? You're making the same bad assumption as the other gentleman. It was just demonstrated today that it is indeed easy to cheat, my first point. Is the second point difficult to understand?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be blunt I'm better than most players and the people better than me are not ridiculously better. I have played with and against all the best players and not one of them is suspicious to me in the slightest. The good players dominate on both sides and in every aspect of the game. If you think aimbotting helps as a fade or as commander than i am wasting my time writing this. I have had to deal with hackers countless times in other games and they are not hard to spot. 99.9999999% of them overly abuse their hacks and tend to troll people with them. If i saw a marine (who used to be bad) go 50-2 game after game, suddenly displaying god like abilities and then he goes aliens and finishes in the bottom game after game, I would then be suspicious. The bottom line is you have no proof anyone is hacking and you are making the bad assumption that people are.
<!--quoteo(post=1915601:date=Mar 20 2012, 06:07 PM:name=fallout1333)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fallout1333 @ Mar 20 2012, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915601"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hey GORGEous, you got called out. player made a hack. and you shut up about it all now haven't you?
i told you i have an aimbot, player has a wall hack. if we team up, we will have this done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you kidding? I never said you couldn't make an aimbot. I said that I've never seen an aimbotter in any NS2 game that I've played in. And I don't know of any reputable player claiming to have seen an aimbot in the last 20+ patches.
<!--quoteo(post=1915592:date=Mar 20 2012, 03:47 PM:name=Dusk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dusk @ Mar 20 2012, 03:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915592"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The bottom line is you have no proof anyone is hacking and you are making the bad assumption that people are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm at a loss, how did you come to the conclusion that I made this claim? This is what I said.
"Currently, there's no method to confirm if someone is cheating in NS2 in normal circumstances. However, we do know two things: 1) Cheating is possible and 2) You wouldn't know it if it happened to you on a daily basis."
This is what you said.
<!--quoteo(post=1915511:date=Mar 20 2012, 12:25 PM:name=Dusk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dusk @ Mar 20 2012, 12:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ns2 does not have a hacking problem right now but it will eventually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You didn't answer my question. At least have the integrity to admit you don't have a method unavailable to everyone else to determine if others are cheating. Your skill is not that method. Until you can see other player's screens, you don't know.
<!--quoteo(post=1914849:date=Mar 18 2012, 06:54 PM:name=Mkk_Bitestuff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mkk_Bitestuff @ Mar 18 2012, 06:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Better call the demo detectives then, i'm sure they will review your case quite quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> chimp is now accepting donations to build a supercomputer that will run NS2 at a tolerable framerate
Comments
I'm getting more and more concerned about the contents of the next-gen Overmind :P
What's more likely -- That all the experienced players are wrong about botters or that a couple random people have magically seen cheaters that nobody else can?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If all the regulars were complaining about aimbots i would take it seriously. There are about 50 of us that play a ridiculous number of hours and for the most part we all know each other and as GORGous said, none of these players are reporting aimbotters.
Especially if its not something more obvious like an aimbot - there is a lot stuff possible even if you dont have any programming knowledge.
I can see how it would be nice to have something against those easy cheats rather sooner than later.
Sometimes when i die to players in match i WANT to call hacking because of how absurd the kill was. But i just calmly count the bullets they fire next time i face them, and i've never seen anyone with a more than 60% hit rate with the marine weapons.
It may feel unfair, you may want to say they're hacking, but in all probability they weren't and you just got lol-dead.
Still zero confirmed botters in NS2 AFAIK.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Without a reason to think otherwise, many people assume others are legit. By itself, there's nothing wrong with that. When you take that a step further and assume <i>everyone</i> is legit until proven otherwise, as you're doing, you're making a bad assumption. An example of another bad assumption would be to say <i>no one</i> is playing fair until proven otherwise. For context, over the last decade in FPS hundreds of thousands if not upwards of a million cheaters have been caught. Currently, there's no method to confirm if someone is cheating in NS2 in normal circumstances. However, we do know two things: 1) Cheating is possible and 2) You wouldn't know it if it happened to you on a daily basis. To put it simply, an unfalsifiable assumption is a bad one. If that is indeed your point, that there are no confirmed aimbotters, congratulations on your fatuous realization. While posting the most you've managed to contribute the least to the discussion. That brings me to my point, which I'm afraid you still don't get.
The difference between you and everyone else in this thread that's made the non-argument of "I have never seen an aimbotter yet", is they have been content with giving their piece once. You, on the other hand, seem to be compelled to repeat your opinion until everyone is in deference. I linked you to the article on grandiosity not because it's relevant to the OP's point, not that he has one, this is a troll thread, but because it's relevant to my point. Enlighten me, if you don't think your opinion matters more than everyone elses, if you don't think you're being pompous, why are you repeating it? We know what you think, you aren't adding anything constructive to this discussion by repeating yourself. If not grandiosity, what?
<!--quoteo(post=1914591:date=Mar 18 2012, 07:55 AM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 18 2012, 07:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have not seen a single person botting, aimbotting, wallhacking, speedhacking, or any other kind of hacking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914811:date=Mar 18 2012, 07:46 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 18 2012, 07:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Again, I have never seen anyone cheating in NS2. Only whiners explaining their defeat with an excuse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914845:date=Mar 18 2012, 08:51 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 18 2012, 08:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've been averaging 1 or 2 hours per day for the past 4 or 5 months and I've never seen a botter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The difference between you and everyone else in this thread that's made the non-argument of "I have never seen an aimbotter yet", is they have been content with giving their piece once. You, on the other hand, seem to be compelled to repeat your opinion until everyone is in deference. I linked you to the article on grandiosity not because it's relevant to the OP's point, not that he has one, this is a troll thread, but because it's relevant to my point. Enlighten me, if you don't think your opinion matters more than everyone elses, if you don't think you're being pompous, why are you repeating it? We know what you think, you aren't adding anything constructive to this discussion by repeating yourself. If not grandiosity, what?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I responded directly to others posting. I have 6 posts on this thread (of 67 total posts). 4 of the 6 are responding directly to your trolling. You have 6 posts as well with 5 of them being direct, childish remarks toward me. So we have a combined 9 posts, 10 with this one, (please note that is 5x as many posts as it took to upset you) due to you being immature, irrelevant, and a general troll. Here's to returning the favor.
The difference between you and the rest of us, is we're actually talking about the topic. You are solely talking about me.
And finally, since you seem to be obsessed with me, I've quoted for you all the players who are in agreement on this issue. Amazingly, they're basically saying exactly the same thing that I said! Some of them even had the audacity to post twice in a single thread. Are you going to throw a tantrum with them as well, or are you solely fixated on me? Would you like to talk about it? I bet talking about your feelings would help you manage these embarrassing outbursts.
<!--quoteo(post=1914544:date=Mar 18 2012, 06:33 AM:name=shiv)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shiv @ Mar 18 2012, 06:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914544"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are people who have played 100s of hours of NS2 and 100s if not 1000s of hours of NS1 or other FPS games. They have better aim and better reflexes than you, and more than likely a better computer. You were simply outplayed and now you're here on the forums complaining about hacks. Unless you have proof of cheating/hacking you should stop whining and go back to practicing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914599:date=Mar 18 2012, 10:57 AM:name=ubikjam)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ubikjam @ Mar 18 2012, 10:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914599"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really doubt this is an issue at the moment when there's only 100 or so people playing at a time, i've never noticed it. The only reason i'd like some anti-cheat is because people keep accusing each other of cheating in game and getting irrate. As soon as marines build a forward obs you know the "marine wall hack" complaints will start. It's like a microcosm for self-confirming superstitions...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914600:date=Mar 18 2012, 11:07 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Mar 18 2012, 11:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914600"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because a player is good doesn't mean they use an aimbot. Yes, it's possible (and fairly easy) to make an aimbot, but I haven't seen one yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914615:date=Mar 18 2012, 12:41 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Mar 18 2012, 12:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914615"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I haven't seen anything suspect. It's not like Battlefield 3 which I gave up because there were so many hackers with 50 kills and one or two deaths.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914737:date=Mar 18 2012, 06:48 PM:name=LV426-Colonist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LV426-Colonist @ Mar 18 2012, 06:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because someone can actually aim and you can't; that doesn't make them cheaters.
Now just stfu until you give us proof for justification.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914740:date=Mar 18 2012, 06:52 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Mar 18 2012, 06:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not this argument again. *facepalm*
You know, if we started having consequences for people who called hacks all over the forums without concrete proof, I think we'd see the instances of "aimbotting" in NS2 decrease significantly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914788:date=Mar 18 2012, 09:00 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Mar 18 2012, 09:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914788"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, while I don't doubt NS2 aimbots do exist, its doubtful that you've encountered one. The combination of lag + obs motion tracking + good shooter skills can make it seem like their aimbotting you, but their not. One serious hitch in combat can make it seem like you got one-shotted from around the corner.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914827:date=Mar 18 2012, 10:26 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Mar 18 2012, 10:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914827"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have about 200 hours and have played almost all the patches since the beginning.
Cannot remember any instance where someone was obviously using an aimbot. The closest to cheating I've seen was when people exploited glitches like the skulk hyper bite or flying outside maps. None of those things exist anymore to my knowledge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1914851:date=Mar 18 2012, 10:59 PM:name=eh?)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eh? @ Mar 18 2012, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914851"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I doubt being told you're not aiming well is going to convince you, but I can't say I've seen anyone actually cheating since way back in the 16x builds. Keep in mind players like shiv and a number of others have been playing since then too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soul_Rider
"Just to clarify, I don't think people are aimbotting, but it would be easy enough to write the code to be 'just less' than perfect."
Dusk
"If all the regulars were complaining about aimbots i would take it seriously. There are about 50 of us that play a ridiculous number of hours and for the most part we all know each other and as GORGous said, none of these players are reporting aimbotters."
{GGs} Chicken
"Yeah I think as said before 100% of the people complaining are doing it because of the lag. Sometimes I'll get insta killed, or if I'm shooting at someone who's far away and/or hiding, I'll shoot at them for a bit and they won't move at all, as if they don't notice, then I kill them. The only person I've ever seen get complaints about hacking is Fana, and oh boy was there a lot of crying lol. Although that was a while ago, haven't seen him in forever."
The only time I've seen something really fishy is a dude going 40-2 with a shotty and 400 ping the entire game. I never got to personally fight him so I wasn't able to see if he ever missed, that and his com was very good at putting down pings and forward obs. Even then, I don't know if an aim bot will help a 400 ping player, so something must have been wrong with that reading. Shrug it off, tell the guy to lay off the itchy trigger finger or join aliens so the pubs can actually have fun. Its that or hop to a different server.
Oh, the good ole times of constant hackusations I had to deal with in my tactical realism servers I used to frequent (not usually against me but well established members of the community). Cannot wait till combat fps is improved so I can hear more whining. Let the good times roll gentlemen.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiolB5OCyeU&feature=youtube_gdata_player" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiolB5OCyeU...be_gdata_player</a>
So if you have a player that can aim as fast as these guys NS2 it would look like an aimbot.
But on the other side, if you take a look at modern Aimbots lile this:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3mDn0-qfuw&feature=youtube_gdata_player" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3mDn0-qfuw...be_gdata_player</a>
it is impossible to detect em by watching first person.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that aimbot shows theres still a delay in the aiming - so still misses
so some good players prolly aim better than that aim bot :p
The fruits of my labour:
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38570801/Wallhack.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
What you're looking at is a fully-functional wall-hack, that displays distance to the player, names\class-types and even hp\armor and ammo. It's entirely client-side, works on all vanilla servers, and is build-independent (I live to serve).
While highly amusing, it was childs-play, and any half-competent Lua-scripter will have no issue reproducing what I built. So I guess the statement that there are no cheats\hacks for this game has hereby been invalidated, and the devs really should look at implementing that script-consistency check.
Also, don't be a complete ###### by asking for this script.
I'm sure the issue willl be addressed in the future when there are hackers but for now, don't whine cause you can't aim.
so some good players prolly aim better than that aim bot :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is called a Humanised Aimbot. You can change the hit rate from 100% to 0% just as you like. Or it switches from headaiming to the chest, so that you won't have HS all the time etc. Makes it almost undetectable when spectating.
@Player congrats you are now the first official Wallhacker in the NS2 comu with proof. \o/
Hehe
Yeah, but I don't think it should be addressed only by technical measure, what we really need is some kind of formal procedure to complain about cheaters. If I remember well on iccup (sc1, ...) you can fill a form for this, giving the replay file and some details on the game. Then the admins look at it, study the case, and apply appropriate sanctions if needed.
Since we don't have replay yet, the only thing we can provide is screenshots and videos. A forum subsection would be a convenient place to manage cheats cases.
Since we don't have replay yet, the only thing we can provide is screenshots and videos. A forum subsection would be a convenient place to manage cheats cases.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem with screenshots is that they don't show anything. You kinda need hard proof. Only way to get that is by recording the player from first person view. Even then it is very hard to spot a wallhack in ns.
But I'm sure this will be addressed when the game gets closer to release.
Yeah, definitely.
The community is small enough where hacking on one server can easily get you banned from every other server.
I personally liked UT2k4's system of cheat detection in TAM. You had the built in anti-cheat (antiTCC for ut2k4) but some servers also employed random first person screenshots 2-3 times per player per game. The screenshots were stored in small jpgs and could be consulted if someone was suspicious. It picks up wall hackers really quickly and any botter with an overlay will get nailed quickly as well. Obviously not unbeatable anticheat, but it caught a lot of kiddies.
Getting globally banned from a game because your better than some upset admin gets old very quickly, and there are several games i can think of where that has happened.
What method do you have to know whether someone is cheating in NS2 that everyone else doesn't? You're making the same bad assumption as the other gentleman. It was just demonstrated today that it is indeed easy to cheat, my first point. Is the second point difficult to understand?
<!--quoteo(post=1915323:date=Mar 19 2012, 10:56 PM:name=hampton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hampton @ Mar 19 2012, 10:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Currently, there's no method to confirm if someone is cheating in NS2 in normal circumstances. However, we do know two things: 1) Cheating is possible and 2) You wouldn't know it if it happened to you on a daily basis.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be blunt I'm better than most players and the people better than me are not ridiculously better. I have played with and against all the best players and not one of them is suspicious to me in the slightest. The good players dominate on both sides and in every aspect of the game. If you think aimbotting helps as a fade or as commander than i am wasting my time writing this. I have had to deal with hackers countless times in other games and they are not hard to spot. 99.9999999% of them overly abuse their hacks and tend to troll people with them. If i saw a marine (who used to be bad) go 50-2 game after game, suddenly displaying god like abilities and then he goes aliens and finishes in the bottom game after game, I would then be suspicious. The bottom line is you have no proof anyone is hacking and you are making the bad assumption that people are.
i told you i have an aimbot, player has a wall hack. if we team up, we will have this done.
i told you i have an aimbot, player has a wall hack. if we team up, we will have this done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you kidding? I never said you couldn't make an aimbot. I said that I've never seen an aimbotter in any NS2 game that I've played in. And I don't know of any reputable player claiming to have seen an aimbot in the last 20+ patches.
I'm at a loss, how did you come to the conclusion that I made this claim? This is what I said.
"Currently, there's no method to confirm if someone is cheating in NS2 in normal circumstances. However, we do know two things: 1) Cheating is possible and 2) You wouldn't know it if it happened to you on a daily basis."
This is what you said.
<!--quoteo(post=1915511:date=Mar 20 2012, 12:25 PM:name=Dusk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dusk @ Mar 20 2012, 12:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ns2 does not have a hacking problem right now but it will eventually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You didn't answer my question. At least have the integrity to admit you don't have a method unavailable to everyone else to determine if others are cheating. Your skill is not that method. Until you can see other player's screens, you don't know.
chimp is now accepting donations to build a supercomputer that will run NS2 at a tolerable framerate