Mines hit owners
thefonz
Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Members
Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Members
<div class="IPBDescription">potential issues, also another idea to fix mines</div>So mines can hit their owners now in the next build, great seems like a good balance move for the short term life of a mine. I see a few issues in the long term though. First off, mining base and PGs will suck. If you drop a mine near an IP, PG, ect. like a good marine, you stand a fair chance that later in the match when you have forgotten who's mines are who's you could spawn/phase during a fight and be killed by a mine you placed ten minutes ago. This applies to anywhere you put mines really, but I see bases and PGs as the most likely problem areas. I expect that mines are going to be much less popular in general now, which I suppose is good. I just don't like that I'm gonna have to remember any mines I drop all game to avoid crappy accidents.
IMO, let mines hurt thier owners for either:
A) a period of time after the mine is deployed
B) until the owner moves a certain distance away
C) Until the owner respawns
All three or any combinations of them addresses (what I think) the main problem of marines dropping mines and standing on them during fights.
ALTERNATE SOLUTION
I think a better alternate solution is that mines hurt ALL marines, regardless of owner, AND, mines do not detonate if a marine is close to the mine. Universal rules for mines are much less confusing than, worrying about who's mine is who's...
Wouldn't mind seeing grenades hurt all marines either, but perhaps half damage of you didn't shoot the grenade. grenade covering friendlies is easy, can't understand why I don't see it more often.
Edit, the reason mines should hurt all marines if for situations where the aliens detonate the mine, IE bile bomb, infestation, ect.
IMO, let mines hurt thier owners for either:
A) a period of time after the mine is deployed
B) until the owner moves a certain distance away
C) Until the owner respawns
All three or any combinations of them addresses (what I think) the main problem of marines dropping mines and standing on them during fights.
ALTERNATE SOLUTION
I think a better alternate solution is that mines hurt ALL marines, regardless of owner, AND, mines do not detonate if a marine is close to the mine. Universal rules for mines are much less confusing than, worrying about who's mine is who's...
Wouldn't mind seeing grenades hurt all marines either, but perhaps half damage of you didn't shoot the grenade. grenade covering friendlies is easy, can't understand why I don't see it more often.
Edit, the reason mines should hurt all marines if for situations where the aliens detonate the mine, IE bile bomb, infestation, ect.
Comments
You misundertand, a skulking tripping a mine I dropped 10 minutes ago is exactly my concern. Not setting off my own mines.I agree wither the change to prevent easy kills. I just don't want to get killed for doing good things like mining a pg. Or get killed because I walk through some of my mines much later and get attacked.
Besides, the current change doesn't fix the mine problem completely. I can still drop a patch of mines and my teamates can stand over them, invulnerable to the detonations. I think mines not detonating when marines are close is a better, more complete fix.
B) is also a bit unintuitive and people who know about this solution will move away and back to their mines, which seems a bit silly
C) sounds like a nice solution though, i'd be happy with that
B) until the owner moves a certain distance away
C) Until the owner respawns<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
none of these stops (what i believe to be) the main reason for this change.. marines placing mines right under them and camping/dancing around it when fighting skulks. if you can think of an alternate solution without allowing the previously stated, go for it.
Lets ingore those, I admit they are poorly thought. My alternate solution does cover the main problem. It unifies the solution so that Marine A cannot place mines for Marine B to stand over, Which is still possible in the current solution. By requireing a minimum distance for any marine from the mine, camping over mines becomes impossible.
mines hurt marines = marines stop buying mines..
so next friendly fire enabled... ??? alien stack...
anyhoo...
for those who don't know about mines.... easy to spot.. most of the time, most people stack them too close..
(oh by the way... parasite can kill a mine in like 10 hits)
and even the marines who camp on mines.. all you have to do is wait 3 seconds and the marine will move off the mine
but all in all...look before you leap and LERKS ARE CHEAP!
i just think this is a bad direction...
*oh and as a marine i kill myself enough with grenades :)
It won't stop marines from making agressive forward mine camps. They will just camp on each others mines.
If my mines can kill me I'll never drop mines where I'm likely to go, such as the infantry portal, armoury, power node, phase gate.. you know, all the places that need defending. But ok, I'll still deploy them in places I'm not likely to go, which is basically vents. And that's if I can actually reach the vent in such a way that I think I'm likely to get a kill rather than just expend 5 pRes. Which is not often.
So as far as I can tell, this will weaken the marines in the early game and push up the demand for sentries, which just makes the aliens complain about sentry spam.
Also to make them actually useful make them only be dropped by the commander to be picked up by marines and not requiring research. This would reduce spam in public and make them useful as an early game choice for additional defence against skulk rushes. Right now with the research theyre always too late for what i see as their most effective use.
dunno about them being available right off the bat.. as aliens don't have such a strong early game counter. but aside from that, +1.
Wouldn't mind seeing grenades hurt all marines either, but perhaps half damage of you didn't shoot the grenade. grenade covering friendlies is easy, can't understand why I don't see it more often.
Edit, the reason mines should hurt all marines if for situations where the aliens detonate the mine, IE bile bomb, infestation, ect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not a big fan of friendly-fire in FPSs because its an easy method to grief your team. The best solution I've seen to simulate friendly-damage that reduces the ability to grief is to cause any damage that is dealt to a friendly to instead be dealt to the player (i.e. a damage reflect system). Its a bit unintuitive at first, but it achieves roughly the same goal as enabling friendly-fire (i.e. be careful while shooting) without being easily griefable.
be kindda funny if an onos went to stomp a marine, but instead knocked down 3 skulks..
a pack of skulks swarming a group of marines I mean.. chomp chomp in a frantic fight teeth and claws everywhere ...
you see where this is going?
i'd like to see this tested.
+1
This seems like a much more viable option.
Also if this is to stop mine camping, and if it only hurts the owner of the mine, what is to prevent good marine teams from dropping mines for teammates to camp on?
+1
noooooo!! Then we should get the ability to remote detonate mines. I don't mind dying along with the mines, but its quite enjoyable insta killing fades with 6 mines hidden underneath you.
- I can see the problem their trying to address but i don't see why tbh.. Marines on top of mines is something that should be a locational advantage to the marine and as a skulk you simply avoid whether or not its the owner. It costs a chunk of pres, has a chargeup time, cannot be picked back up, and cannot be placed on infestation. This means that the offensive mine dancing only occurs in areas that are not yet under alien infestation control and this i think is fine. I mean this is what lerk and cyst spreading is for right? (long and short ranged options respectively)
Skulks don't need to attack marines wasting pres and time dancing on mines and can just wait it out in a vent or around the corner. Its really to the marines loss if their doing this in areas not under alien control - you can't be wasting time as a marine with 5 minute fades and 11 minute opnos.
Have you ever seen early game marines standing on top of mines while being invulnerable to skulks? Yeah, it's dumb. That's why it needs to be changed. I like the idea that they can't detonate within a short distance of marines, though. That's a neat compromise which gets rid of the mine dancing exploit but still limits self kills.
i've literally never seen a single marine standing on top of a mine waiting for a skulk to attack him just so he can blow the skulk up rather than shooting it. deadly serious here.
I'm just wondering how it will be in an enclosed base, when it's chaotic and you're frantically trying to re-mine the IPs and whatnot before another attack comes. Getting constantly blown up because there is nowhere to go and aliens keep suiciding can really suck the fun out of the match. Of course it could just be as simple as adjusting the mine strategy... just playing devil's advocate here.
It also raises the question of whether this can be used to trap marines in their own base (although this is really only relevant if the FF of mines ends up being that they hurt ANY marine near them). I can definitely see a lerk or skulk shooting the mine down enough to be have 1 hit, and since marines can't pick up or repair their mines (at least as far as I know... guess I've never tried to repair them, so correct me if I'm wrong), the aliens can just wait for a 'rine to walk over it while on their way out of the base and pop it in one shot, destroying the marine in a situation where they WEREN'T using it exploitishly.
Now, if that's an intended mechanic of the change that's one thing, but I figured I'd mention it as a possible repercussion of having the mines hurt ANY marines. If it's only your personal mines that would hurt you it'd be less likely, because I can't imagine many aliens are going to follow you to keep track of which mines are yours, then site an plot your demise while hoping you just happen to walk out that door again.
Just my $0.02. I'm sure it'll be fine however its final implementation is.
<!--quoteo(post=1925222:date=Apr 13 2012, 09:51 PM:name=paradoxum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paradoxum @ Apr 13 2012, 09:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925222"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i've literally never seen a single marine standing on top of a mine waiting for a skulk to attack him just so he can blow the skulk up rather than shooting it. deadly serious here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's surprising, as it is incredibly common right now, especially if the marines are getting pounded or can't aim worth a damn.
still can't believe you're serious.
but if im in a fight and theres a mine nearby, i will most likely start dancing around it
I think this would be a more elegant solution as it allows marines to still place them around the base and kill skulks munching on IPs. without making them useless.