<!--quoteo(post=1928450:date=Apr 22 2012, 07:41 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Apr 22 2012, 07:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think they'll probably change it so that marines and buildings have an outline or glow effect but everything else is the same as normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> should be like this imo
<!--quoteo(post=1928450:date=Apr 22 2012, 01:41 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Apr 22 2012, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think they'll probably change it so that marines and buildings have an outline or glow effect but everything else is the same as normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes I hope so too, added two photoshoped screenshots to the OP
<!--quoteo(post=1928341:date=Apr 21 2012, 05:58 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Apr 21 2012, 05:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928341"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If there are zero trade-offs, then you are compelled (read: forced) to use it all the time in order to compete, and I don't feel like exposing my eyes to so much yellow for 50% of the playing-time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1928507:date=Apr 22 2012, 03:36 PM:name=Ryne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryne @ Apr 22 2012, 03:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928507"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe having to stare at yellow is the tradeoff?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...
<!--quoteo(post=1928501:date=Apr 22 2012, 07:16 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Apr 22 2012, 07:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928501"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never use it and I never used whatever the equivalent was in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you cant be serious. everyone (including the best competitive players) used it all the time on. it was impossible to play without your flashlight on as an alien. having such a good feature for free. why wouldnt you use it? in ns2 the flashlight is quite different though it should only make glow living things.
I never used it in ns1 and I'd say just less than half of the top euro players used it. It was unnecessary because marines were easily spotted. I feel it does help a lot of people as a slight preference and it doesn't bother me because I feel that spotting a marine is not an integral part of the alien melee experience. Marines do not ambush from the shadows and spotting them on the other side of the room has little practical effects on the ability of either player to win a fight.
It's necessary in NS2 because the design of spore is built to grief everyone.
The alien-flashlight had a major downside in that things became really obfuscated when the scene was buzy (multiple buildings, multiple enemies). Much easier to just gammaramp and whitewall the place.
<!--quoteo(post=1928568:date=Apr 22 2012, 07:46 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Apr 22 2012, 07:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928568"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The alien-flashlight had a major downside in that things became really obfuscated when the scene was buzy (multiple buildings, multiple enemies). Much easier to just gammaramp and whitewall the place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Memu set options were generally enough. That said, I wouldnt mind a bit more contrast between skulks and the general environment. That or a devrease in muzzleflash/gun screen space. Its quite easy to not see what youre shooting at.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1928519:date=Apr 22 2012, 05:39 PM:name=Pekerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pekerman @ Apr 22 2012, 05:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928519"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you cant be serious. everyone (including the best competitive players) used it all the time on. it was impossible to play without your flashlight on as an alien.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I never used it, except for when hiding behind/inside alien rts. I dare say it didn't put me at a much of a disadvantage...
<!--quoteo(post=1928568:date=Apr 22 2012, 08:46 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Apr 22 2012, 08:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928568"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Much easier to just gammaramp and whitewall the place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't do that (whitewalls) either. It just wasn't necessary to compete and the ensl screenshot plugin could bust you for cheating if you did it anyway. The closest we had to anyone ever getting busted for whitewalls was a few of the saunamen players abusing a cvar that had a similar effect, but it wasn't really a big issue.
<!--quoteo(post=1928567:date=Apr 22 2012, 08:39 PM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Apr 22 2012, 08:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928567"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's necessary in NS2 because the design of spore is built to grief everyone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This.
<!--quoteo(post=1928450:date=Apr 22 2012, 12:41 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Apr 22 2012, 12:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think they'll probably change it so that marines and buildings have an outline or glow effect but everything else is the same as normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is exactly what it should be like. If you're going to have it at all, make it a faint glow/outline (see left for dead). But as long as spores remain the way they are now, that won't be enough unfortunately.
<!--quoteo(post=1928572:date=Apr 22 2012, 08:19 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Apr 22 2012, 08:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928572"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I didn't do that (whitewalls) either. It just wasn't necessary to compete and the ensl screenshot plugin could bust you for cheating if you did it anyway. The closest we had to anyone ever getting busted for whitewalls was a few of the saunamen players abusing a cvar that had a similar effect, but it wasn't really a big issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You could get away with quite a bit in ENSL, judging by some of the forum-conversations.
Why not make it similar to AvP2, aliens had to use multiple vision modes to fight. 1 mode was the combat one and there enemies where highlighted but the terrain became very hard ti see. The second mode was navigation mode, the terrain became highlight but enemies where impossible to see. In AvP2 you could quickly switch the vision modes. But since AvP2 MP was tdm focused and NS2 is objective based maybe there could be a cool down effect. And of course the player could forgo vision modes and just toggle them on when they are about to enter combat.
That's the only advantage I see with Spark, there's not so much legacy-crap that allows clients to screw with the game way more than they really should.
I'll admit to using alien vision the vast majority of the time; then again I used it the vast majority of the time in NS1 as well. I don't know if anyone else will agree, but marines tend to do a half-decent job of blending in with the environment since they're generally using dark-greyish colours. Alien vision just lets me focus on the marines rather than getting all lost while moving around trying to dodge them.
Only downside is I don't believe you can see your HP/Armour. You also can't see some abilities or projectiles. The biggest one is (I don't know if this was a bug or not) that the Marine Commander used Nano Shield on someone I was fighting and they turned completely invisible except for their gun. Was rather disorienting because I didn't even know they were there.
Also right now alien vision is the best counter to FPS lag when it pops up (usually due to mass sentries).
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1928581:date=Apr 22 2012, 10:10 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Apr 22 2012, 10:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928581"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You could get away with quite a bit in ENSL, judging by some of the forum-conversations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're going to have to elaborate because I have no idea what you're talking about.
A lot of players, most even, used the 9L pack, but that was fairly innocent. It had a few borderline-dodgy audio changes (removing reload sounds, ambient sounds, and so forth) but since they were impossible to detect and were not blocked by consistency, it made sense to "level the playing field".
It involved screwing about with the texture-quality and LOD through a couple vars that were as of yet left unblocked (and still are?), to approximate something very close to whitewalls, but legal nonetheless. I don't know what's been happening in the mean time, the game is dead anyway.
Just make it sensitive to light. Aliens get the perk of having the vision where they fight best - in darkness.
In the light, make everything begins to blurr together, into one big yellow/orange flat plain.
(If you want it to make sense, just think of something like the light reflecting off the objects screw up however the sight works. They bounce something off the objects to get that view, and a lot of light coming back messes that up. Or something....)
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1928599:date=Apr 22 2012, 11:25 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Apr 22 2012, 11:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928599"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It involved screwing about with the texture-quality and LOD through a couple vars that were as of yet left unblocked (and still are?), to approximate something very close to whitewalls, but legal nonetheless. I don't know what's been happening in the mean time, the game is dead anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, this is what I was referring to when I posted this above:
<!--quoteo(post=1928572:date=Apr 22 2012, 09:19 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Apr 22 2012, 09:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928572"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The closest we had to anyone ever getting busted for whitewalls was a few of the saunamen players abusing a cvar that had a similar effect, but it wasn't really a big issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem was that by that time, the organisation of the ENSL had really gone down the drain. The community was, at best, running on fumes in 2009 and none of the admins really worried a lot about checking screenshots for exploits, or anything else for that matter. If it had happened a few years earlier than that, when a significant number of people sitll played the game and the ENSL had admins who put a lot of effort into the job, it would've never gone unnoticed. That's why it was only discovered after all the matches in the tournament had been played, which was a large part of the reason why there were no consequences for the player and team in question (other than being ridiculed for it ever since). In addition to that, an admin during an earlier season, b1, had previously told Tane that he could use the command (but I assume that b1 didn't really understand what the command did, as I know him well enough that I know he wouldn't have agreed if he had seen that screenshot).
Jiriki's rather complacent posts on the issue were probably just because he didn't really care at that point. He had stepped back from everything connected with admining the league and the only reason he even replied at all was probably because it caused a bit of a ######storm (as well it should have!).
Personally I feel that it was a rule violation (there were rules in effect that could be used to ban the players and overturn the results), and that saunamen's championship that season ideally should've been overturned. Unfortunately, as I said, the admins and a lot of the players that season didn't really feel that it was a huge deal, and with the mitigating circumstances mentioned above the rage over it kind of just dissipated after a while and nobody cared enough to do anything about it.
If you want to use that single instance, or an open forum debate, between a tiny minority of the players, that actually lead to the cvar being banned, to paint the whole of the ENSL as some sort of cheater haven ("you could get away with quite a bit in ENSL"), you really need to take two steps back and re-evaluate your thinking.
<!--quoteo(post=1928605:date=Apr 22 2012, 11:41 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Apr 22 2012, 11:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928605"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wasn't it subsequently made illegal?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, the ensl plugin was quickly changed to block that particular cvar.
Good grief, throw out a senseless remark, get a boatload of ENSL-drama posted in return, my little raging Norwegian. Let us stop derailing the thread though?
<!--quoteo(post=1928651:date=Apr 22 2012, 09:22 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Apr 22 2012, 09:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928651"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good grief, throw out a senseless remark, get a boatload of ENSL-drama posted in return, my little raging Norwegian. Let us stop derailing the thread though?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow you really got back the high ground with that one
Might just be me, but I almost never ever use alien vision. Doesn't seem that great to me, and the tradeoffs for using it are too big to me. When I actually use it:
1. When I'm attacking rines and it's spored up. 2. Can't easily see marines through RT legs coming while chomping on RT 3. When I go into a big room I tap it on/off just to see if any rines or ninja structues are hiding
I don't like this idea,(original picture posts) id rather have it the way it is BUT lower the hue a little make it transparent a little, if you understand OR or make it like a infrared camera, or mix the two ideas together. I'm sure they're going to change it and its not finalized yet, but they can carry some of the pretty environment into the vision with all the advantages of being able to see and focus on your target as you jump around frantically in the dark. without alien flash light I wouldn't be able to play aliens. I use it 95% of the time on fades skulks 20% on lerk 0% on gorge n onos (unless rooms dark)
<!--quoteo(post=1928306:date=Apr 22 2012, 12:13 AM:name=paradoxum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paradoxum @ Apr 22 2012, 12:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928306"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also I just want to say that when I use it, my FPS actually decreases and the game actually becomes sluggish for some reason.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me too. I actually turn on the flashlight, peek in the room, acquire targets and deactivate the flashlight. When looking up and chasing a jumping marine, seeing textures also helps me see where walls are and keep awareness of where I am in the room.
Comments
should be like this imo
yes I hope so too,
added two photoshoped screenshots to the OP
I never use it and I never used whatever the equivalent was in NS1.
Same goes for melee in TF2 (with the spy, demoman etc).
When you say 'playable' you make it sound as though it's a necessity, but I'm not so sure...
Maybe having to stare at yellow is the tradeoff?
...
you cant be serious. everyone (including the best competitive players) used it all the time on. it was impossible to play without your flashlight on as an alien.
having such a good feature for free. why wouldnt you use it?
in ns2 the flashlight is quite different though it should only make glow living things.
It's necessary in NS2 because the design of spore is built to grief everyone.
Memu set options were generally enough. That said, I wouldnt mind a bit more contrast between skulks and the general environment. That or a devrease in muzzleflash/gun screen space. Its quite easy to not see what youre shooting at.
I never used it, except for when hiding behind/inside alien rts. I dare say it didn't put me at a much of a disadvantage...
<!--quoteo(post=1928568:date=Apr 22 2012, 08:46 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Apr 22 2012, 08:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928568"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Much easier to just gammaramp and whitewall the place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't do that (whitewalls) either. It just wasn't necessary to compete and the ensl screenshot plugin could bust you for cheating if you did it anyway. The closest we had to anyone ever getting busted for whitewalls was a few of the saunamen players abusing a cvar that had a similar effect, but it wasn't really a big issue.
<!--quoteo(post=1928567:date=Apr 22 2012, 08:39 PM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Apr 22 2012, 08:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928567"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's necessary in NS2 because the design of spore is built to grief everyone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This.
<!--quoteo(post=1928450:date=Apr 22 2012, 12:41 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Apr 22 2012, 12:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think they'll probably change it so that marines and buildings have an outline or glow effect but everything else is the same as normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is exactly what it should be like. If you're going to have it at all, make it a faint glow/outline (see left for dead). But as long as spores remain the way they are now, that won't be enough unfortunately.
You could get away with quite a bit in ENSL, judging by some of the forum-conversations.
heres a youtube link of what i mean
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95h0ftoPObU&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95h0ftoPObU...feature=related</a>
Only downside is I don't believe you can see your HP/Armour. You also can't see some abilities or projectiles. The biggest one is (I don't know if this was a bug or not) that the Marine Commander used Nano Shield on someone I was fighting and they turned completely invisible except for their gun. Was rather disorienting because I didn't even know they were there.
Also right now alien vision is the best counter to FPS lag when it pops up (usually due to mass sentries).
You're going to have to elaborate because I have no idea what you're talking about.
A lot of players, most even, used the 9L pack, but that was fairly innocent. It had a few borderline-dodgy audio changes (removing reload sounds, ambient sounds, and so forth) but since they were impossible to detect and were not blocked by consistency, it made sense to "level the playing field".
<img src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qHnjirQHWYc/TI-HDBI2GdI/AAAAAAAADLw/-RQV6SHreHQ/s1600/HatsOff.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
In the light, make everything begins to blurr together, into one big yellow/orange flat plain.
(If you want it to make sense, just think of something like the light reflecting off the objects screw up however the sight works. They bounce something off the objects to get that view, and a lot of light coming back messes that up. Or something....)
Yes, this is what I was referring to when I posted this above:
<!--quoteo(post=1928572:date=Apr 22 2012, 09:19 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Apr 22 2012, 09:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928572"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The closest we had to anyone ever getting busted for whitewalls was a few of the saunamen players abusing a cvar that had a similar effect, but it wasn't really a big issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem was that by that time, the organisation of the ENSL had really gone down the drain. The community was, at best, running on fumes in 2009 and none of the admins really worried a lot about checking screenshots for exploits, or anything else for that matter. If it had happened a few years earlier than that, when a significant number of people sitll played the game and the ENSL had admins who put a lot of effort into the job, it would've never gone unnoticed. That's why it was only discovered after all the matches in the tournament had been played, which was a large part of the reason why there were no consequences for the player and team in question (other than being ridiculed for it ever since). In addition to that, an admin during an earlier season, b1, had previously told Tane that he could use the command (but I assume that b1 didn't really understand what the command did, as I know him well enough that I know he wouldn't have agreed if he had seen that screenshot).
Jiriki's rather complacent posts on the issue were probably just because he didn't really care at that point. He had stepped back from everything connected with admining the league and the only reason he even replied at all was probably because it caused a bit of a ######storm (as well it should have!).
Personally I feel that it was a rule violation (there were rules in effect that could be used to ban the players and overturn the results), and that saunamen's championship that season ideally should've been overturned. Unfortunately, as I said, the admins and a lot of the players that season didn't really feel that it was a huge deal, and with the mitigating circumstances mentioned above the rage over it kind of just dissipated after a while and nobody cared enough to do anything about it.
If you want to use that single instance, or an open forum debate, between a tiny minority of the players, that actually lead to the cvar being banned, to paint the whole of the ENSL as some sort of cheater haven ("you could get away with quite a bit in ENSL"), you really need to take two steps back and re-evaluate your thinking.
<!--quoteo(post=1928605:date=Apr 22 2012, 11:41 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Apr 22 2012, 11:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928605"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wasn't it subsequently made illegal?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, the ensl plugin was quickly changed to block that particular cvar.
Wow you really got back the high ground with that one
1. When I'm attacking rines and it's spored up.
2. Can't easily see marines through RT legs coming while chomping on RT
3. When I go into a big room I tap it on/off just to see if any rines or ninja structues are hiding
Me too. I actually turn on the flashlight, peek in the room, acquire targets and deactivate the flashlight. When looking up and chasing a jumping marine, seeing textures also helps me see where walls are and keep awareness of where I am in the room.