Welder/MAC and Heal spray comparison
Nakorson
Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140253Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140253Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Currently the Marine repair time is in no comparison to the building heal time of the aliens.
I don't know exact numbers but it feels like you can weld a nearly destroyed CC in 20sec to full health while it takes several minutes to the same with your hive as a gorge.
The long healing time for hives allows marines to do a "attack the hive, die, run back to the hive and attack it again" tactic. Which is impossible for the aliens if there is one marine/MAC welding the CC.
I also think it should be taken into comparison that the marines have to spend 5 res and still stay a "normal" marine which can fight pretty well. The aliens have to spend 10 res and have to spend a bit time evolving to a pure support unit. If the gorge wants to return to combat after healing the hive he has to evolve to another lifeform which will result in losing at least 5 res in comparison to the marines.
The heal spray feels okay for healing a group of hydras, with normal buildings it could be a bit more. The healing value while healing players is fine in my eyes.
I don't know exact numbers but it feels like you can weld a nearly destroyed CC in 20sec to full health while it takes several minutes to the same with your hive as a gorge.
The long healing time for hives allows marines to do a "attack the hive, die, run back to the hive and attack it again" tactic. Which is impossible for the aliens if there is one marine/MAC welding the CC.
I also think it should be taken into comparison that the marines have to spend 5 res and still stay a "normal" marine which can fight pretty well. The aliens have to spend 10 res and have to spend a bit time evolving to a pure support unit. If the gorge wants to return to combat after healing the hive he has to evolve to another lifeform which will result in losing at least 5 res in comparison to the marines.
The heal spray feels okay for healing a group of hydras, with normal buildings it could be a bit more. The healing value while healing players is fine in my eyes.
Comments
But yea agreed, macs seem to weld so fast!!!
(A) Do we want to allow consecutive attacks on a hive to be a valid tactic?
(B) Do we want to make this mechanic even for the marines?
If pro (A):
If we want this tactic to be viable, <b>gorge healing should not apply to hives</b>. This way, no player has to sacrifice himself, doing a boring job for several minutes. If we want (A) it should just not be possible to heal the hive as gorge. Otherwise players will sacrifice themselves for the team, doing a boring job and this is not good game design.
If against (A):
If we want to make consecutive attacks not viable (as already introduced for marines) and focusing on "Succeed with this attack or you have to start again." Than the solution is simple. <b>Make gorge-healing stack over time if the target receives no damage.</b> If the target is receiving damage, the healing rate will be below the rate right now. But if the target receives no damage, the gorge-healing should stack so he can completely heal a hive in 20 or maybe 30 sec.
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To (B):
I think it is possible to make it symmetrical, with tweaking other aspects for balance. The question is what we want or what would be good in terms of fun and game design.
(A) Do we want to allow consecutive attacks on a hive to be a valid tactic?
(B) Do we want to make this mechanic even for the marines?
If pro (A):
If we want this tactic to be viable, <b>gorge healing should not apply to hives</b>. This way, no player has to sacrifice himself, doing a boring job for several minutes. If we want (A) it should just not be possible to heal the hive as gorge. Otherwise players will sacrifice themselves for the team, doing a boring job and this is not good game design.
If against (A):
If we want to make consecutive attacks not viable (as already introduced for marines) and focusing on "Succeed with this attack or you have to start again." Than the solution is simple. <b>Make gorge-healing stack over time if the target receives no damage.</b> If the target is receiving damage, the healing rate will be below the rate right now. But if the target receives no damage, the gorge-healing should stack so he can completely heal a hive in 20 or maybe 30 sec.
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To (B):
I think it is possible to make it symmetrical, with tweaking other aspects for balance. The question is what we want or what would be good in terms of fun and game design.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem is marines are against A, aliens are pro A.
Teams need to be similar in this regard. Marines should not be able to out-heal an alien attack if aliens cannot either. Marines don't have to be bored repairing a CC, while aliens have to.
Teams need to be similar in this regard. Marines should not be able to out-heal an alien attack if aliens cannot either. Marines don't have to be bored repairing a CC, while aliens have to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this.
Even as a marine it is no real fun to destroy the hive by attacking again and again without real tactic.
This was not a question to the teams. It was a design question. The opinion of an marine-player or alien-player isn't interesting here. We need to answer this question in the spirit of: What is more fun.
I love going gorge in early game. Speeding up the building of RTs and the 2nd hive. Putting up a clog/hydra barrier. But in late game i only go gorge when there is no other way. Since you're way to fragile in late game.
I do go gorge if i can if our hive is damaged and no gorge is around, but its ###### boring and annoying to heal the hive up, often i'm being killed because the marines return but somehow the aliens did run off and don't want to stick around the hive to defend it but that's a different problem. ^^
As for the healspray: it's so terrible it can't even out-heal the DPS on a single LMG when healing a hive, ignoring limited ammo and said marine not getting attacked during this long assault it could eventually bring down the hive by themselves. Personally this gives me the impression healspray (at least as far as hives are concerned) feels far too weak and becomes a delay rather than having a point during assaults. Outside of being under attack but for the same reason, it's horrendously slow getting a hive back on it's feet. The only way to even slightly stave off how slow I feel doing this task is plopping out a few hydras and watching those at least do something at a decent pace while I heal.
I'm watching grass grow to pass the time here. <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Looking through the lua, it seems healspray does a fixed 40 points of health to any building every 0.8s, or 50hp/s while the energy holds up. I can't see a special case for hives. It could be that hives simply have so much HP that it inherently takes a long time.
From the wiki... (so it might be out-of-date, but it's good enough to illustrate a point)
Hive: 4000 HP 750 Armour
Mature Hive: 6000 HP 1400 Armour
A rifle does 500 damage per clip and takes 2.775s to empty each clip. For the life of me I can't find where kRifleReloadTime is defined, it's not in rifle.lua and it's not in balance.lua but a bit of testing suggests it's 2 seconds exactly. In that case the rifle outputs 105dps after factoring in reloads, but it maxes out at 2500 damage and runs out of ammo after 22 seconds. Switch axe does 30 damage per 0.6 seconds, x2 for structural = 100 DPS. Since they're so similar I'll use switch-axes below because they don't run out of ammo.
#marines = time to kill a basic hive, time to kill a mature hive
1 = 55s, 1m28s
2 = 28s, 44s
3 = 19s, 29s
4 = 14s, 22s
The above ignores the passive healing of the hive itself which i'm not 100% sure on. Is it 0.08% of its total health per second? 3.2 to 4.8hp/s? That kinda matches what I remember from the game. Anyway let's take another look at the above numbers with passive regen in effect:
1 = 57s(+2s), 1m32s(+4s)
2 = 28s, 45s(+1s)
3 = 19s, 30s(+1s)
4 = 14s, 22s
Let's now consider the additional effect of just one gorge healing with the current healspray model while the marines use their switch axes. Obviously this is a pretty contrived example but it's easy to imagine marines using their guns at range while a gorge heals the hive from behind, and the DPS is similar enough to illustrate the point.
1 = 1m58s(+61s), 3m15s(+1m41s)
2 = 37s(+9s), 61s(+16s)
3 = 22s(+3s), 37(+7s)
4 = 16s(+2s), 25(+3s)
<b>Key point:</b> Basically healspray can be used to neutralise incoming DPS. Currently 1 gorge = 0.5 marine DPS. Increasing the heal rate to any non-boring levels would change this ratio to unworkable proportions. If one gorge could neutralise 2 marines DPS, you would basically need ARCs to ever take down a hive (and we all love ARCs, right? hehe). Even just prolonging a fight puts a burden on marine ammo supplies or forces them to remain prone as they axe away at the hive for longer. Also keep in mind the stuff above doesn't factor in crags which could shave off more DPS.
I understand the main concern in this thread was how long it takes to heal the hive after combat is resolved in a hive area. My post is about showing some of the potentially game breaking affects of doing this with total disregard to the other game mechanics.
Now, comparing skulks taking down a command station:
CS 3000 HP 1500 Armour
Skulk 75 damage per 0.45 s = 166 DPS
#skulks = time to take down a CS
1 = 36s
2 = 18s
3 = 12s
4 = 9s
<b>Key point:</b> Because the skulk damage is so much higher and the CS has a fair bit less HP, it supports the idea that the game is designed for aliens to have to completely kill the structure in one raid, rather than potentially successive raids.
I'm not comparing higher tech stuff like Onos or ARCs because those units are so destructive that heading & welding are non-issue.
The research I did for this post has further convinced me that the game is much more balanced than people give it credit for.
(A) Do we want to allow consecutive attacks on a hive to be a valid tactic?
(B) Do we want to make this mechanic even for the marines?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A, Yes. I think it makes for some pretty intense moments watching the aliens scramble their defences and marines regroup for a second push. It's one of those really focusing moments in NS where everybody knows what's happening. It makes for great viewing in competitive games.
B, No. Because it removes a functioning piece of the asymetrical gameplay <i>for the sake of symetry</i>. Eww, gross.
<!--quoteo(post=1948843:date=Jul 4 2012, 10:06 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Jul 4 2012, 10:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948843"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If pro (A):
If we want this tactic to be viable, <b>gorge healing should not apply to hives</b>. This way, no player has to sacrifice himself, doing a boring job for several minutes. If we want (A) it should just not be possible to heal the hive as gorge. Otherwise players will sacrifice themselves for the team, doing a boring job and this is not good game design.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't agree with the premise: if you can heal, it's always the most productive action you can take. If I happened to be a gorge, maybe. If I was already a fade I think I would spend my efforts trying to keep the marines away from the hive. Even as a gorge there are other options. That it <i>is</i> a slow and boring task probably influences my decision making, which is fine. Further, this proposal removes choice and depth from the game, again without sufficient justification. That you don't like to spend time healing a hive doesn't mean it should be banned.
Also having crunched the numbers earlier, the worst case scenario of one gorge healing a hive from 1 hp all the way to full health requires less than two minutes, with no crags. So again, this problem isn't as big as it has been made out to be.
@Kurrine: why is your text green?
This is entirely what this thread is about - what is more fun.
Currently marines healing mechanics behave in a way which prevents aliens from steadily grinding down their bases - aliens must win in a single assault or it was pointless.
Conversely, alien healing mechanics behave in a way which means marines can grind down a hive over several failed assaults.
Interestinly Khyron has done the numbers and pointed out that it is numerically balanced for early game - however as a Gorge player I find the mechanic boring to sit at a hive for a few minutes healing it up. Its not so bad when a shift is there, but energy runs out quick.
My main issue though is ARCs in relation to the bad healing mechanics for aliens. ARCS kill all the crags, all the shifts, all the whips, in the first salvos. The gorge is now alone, tasked to heal the base. The alien team might be doing fine, but the fact that ARCs can soften up the base so much due to AoE makes it so impossible for a gorge to heal in time before a lone jetpacker flies around to finish off the hive. Or worse still a few more ARCs come. They are tough and will always get a few shots off, with or without marine assistance.
Basically, at end game there is no point in healing the hive. If the marines want to attack, then they will win. Alien tactics end up becoming counter-offensive rather than defensive - force the marines to beacon and defend their base. The aliens have to start building extremely close the marine base in order to force them to slowly ARC structures before getting to the hives.
This is fun enough gameplay mechanics for aliens though, not necessarily bad to force counter-offensive tactics. However for a 'combat engineer' like the gorge, you find yourself dying alone unless you give up on the hive aswell.
I think I'm mostly just struggling to come to terms with the reduction of engineer role for the gorge. I've grown used to not building structures finally, but now it seems I am no longer tasked with maintaining them either.
Of course it might be a problem early game when you can gorge on top of a hive and the marines don't have JPs or GLs, but then marines would have a small numbers advantage when trying to take the rest of the map. Also it would put a small damper on consecutive hive rushes, which I would agree isn't good.
And personally I think heal spray should work much better on hydras and clogs. Hydras especially seem to go down right away even against level 0 lmgs. Even with heal spray I believe they die in less than 2 clips.
I think it would be okay if a gorge could outheal 1 marine. The marine has always the choice to kill the gorge to stop it from healing the hive.
This would improve the current behavior a lot.
1% per shot would make healing the hive a lot quicker and you would actually see the hive health go up rather quickly and it would feel a lot more satisfying as a gorge.
P.S. i dont know exact numbers but 1% per healspray doesn't sound too game-breaking.
I didn't factor in the gorge running out of energy, I thought healspray was much more sustainable in b212 (maybe not indefinately but for a pretty long time).
I also didn't factor in weapons research which sees the damage go up by 10% per level, but again that's starting to factor in late game stuff.
As for the option of changing to a skulk and going for a kill instead of sitting there healing. Yes, it's cool because that's an option you have :) You don't have to sit there and heal the hive.
If 1 gorge can heal at the speed of 1 marine, 2 gorges means that even a huge assault team of 5 marines will still take ages to kill a hive. Enough time that they can be attacked by many waves of skulks.
How is it neutralizing DPS if the DPS is 2x the heal rate (at weapons 0)? Slowing down, yes, but neutralizing is not the word I would have used.
these are the numbers I got: [weapons level] [damage-per-clip] [TTK of mature hive]
(consider that hives often get pushed in groups, sometimes multiple times in a span of a few minutes)
LMG: (4.7 sec total to get out 1 clip and reload)
<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->w3 = 650 = 63 seconds
w2 = 600 = 69 seconds
w1 = 550 = 75 seconds
w0 = 500 = 82 seconds
<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->GL: (10s total to get out 4 nades and reload)
<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->w3 = 1352 = 65
w2 = 1248 = 70
w1 = 1144 = 76
w0 = 1040 = 84<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Gorge TTH (time to heal =p) a mature hive: (40 healing per spray to structures, .8 sec refire rate)
<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->148 seconds with unlimited energy, 175 with energy starvation
<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->Welder TTH:
<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->75 seconds<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
The argument this thread is making is this:
The gorge is a dedicated support unit. This means that he (for the most part) is a non combat unit, effectively taking 1 whole player off of your offensive player count in a game. The gorge currently takes 2-3x as long to heal damage as a single marine takes to deal it.
Compare to a welder that repairs twice as fast as a gorge heals (consider that a CC has ~70% the HP of a hive), costs half as much p-res and is not a "class investment" that alters your playstyle or offensive capability.
<!--quoteo(post=1948936:date=Jul 4 2012, 11:08 AM:name=Khyron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Khyron @ Jul 4 2012, 11:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948936"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->would change this ratio to unworkable proportions. If one gorge could neutralise 2 marines DPS, you would basically need ARCs to ever take down a hive (and we all love ARCs, right? hehe).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is very linear thinking.. It would mean you need to kill the gorge(s) first before you start on the hive. It's also false because 1 gorge = half a marine.
My solution:
Make the gorge healspray cost less energy, so that his energy doesn't decline while using it. Make Enzyme become key for healing hives quickly (which is not viable atm without a shift nearby because the gorge becomes energy starved in ~30s, less if he has enzyme going). The downside to this would be that healing is still very boring if your Khamm isn't using enzyme.
A second solution would be to simply increase the (hive) heal rate, but I like enzyme more because it's a t-res sink/trade off and asymmetrical to marine welding (marines can target the drifter when pushing hives to cut the healing down).
edit: also, maybe nothing at all needs to be done because Adrenaline is supposed to be coming back, so the gorge would be fine on energy with that upgrade.
...
A second solution would be to simply increase the heal rate, but I like enzyme more because it's a t-res sink/trade off and asymmetrical to marine welding (marines can target the drifter when pushing hives to cut the healing down).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Solid post. Pretty much dead on with the statistics - they match what I've been noticing in-game. As it stands Gorge should definitely be able to be a better support for healing, considering that's almost his only function atm besides Hydras/Clogs and occasionally "hero gorging" with spit.
I didn't factor in the gorge running out of energy, I thought healspray was much more sustainable in b212 (maybe not indefinately but for a pretty long time).
I also didn't factor in weapons research which sees the damage go up by 10% per level, but again that's starting to factor in late game stuff.
As for the option of changing to a skulk and going for a kill instead of sitting there healing. Yes, it's cool because that's an option you have :) You don't have to sit there and heal the hive.
If 1 gorge can heal at the speed of 1 marine, 2 gorges means that even a huge assault team of 5 marines will still take ages to kill a hive. Enough time that they can be attacked by many waves of skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well the same thing goes for the marines. Since marines tend to have only 1 base the chance that marines are in the base is a lot higher than for the aliens. Sentry are rare in the current build but they will most likely change again. Although i won't take them into this discussion. But i think it is pretty much the same difficulty to kill a marine healing the cc as it is killing a gorge healing the hive. But i would add that the marines are ranged based and have the GL which allows the marines do harm the gorges and stop/interrupt them from healing.
I hope you are not serious about this or i'm not understanding you correctly. You do want that a gorge which is already at the hive should think about evolving to a skulk to kill the marine instead of healing the hive? You want him to lose his 10pres he spend to become a gorge and risk being shot while you evolve to a skulk?
And i would take the weapon upgrades into this discussion, 30% more damage is 30% less time to take down a hive.
@rantology
Thanks a lot you did formulate it a lot better than i did and could!
Make the gorge healspray cost less energy, so that his energy doesn't decline while using it. Make Enzyme become key for healing hives quickly (which is not viable atm without a shift nearby because the gorge becomes energy starved in ~30s, less if he has enzyme going). The downside to this would be that healing is still very boring if your Khamm isn't using enzyme.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the idea of the khamm supporting with emzyme, but the gorge needs to be able to heal without exhaustion. I think gorge heal needs to be changed to never run out, if it is going to be kept as pathetic as it is now. Obviously with emyzne, the commander either needs a shift or adrenaline to keep the gorge healing.
<!--quoteo(post=1949015:date=Jul 4 2012, 04:42 PM:name=Nakorson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nakorson @ Jul 4 2012, 04:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949015"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope you are not serious about this or i'm not understanding you correctly. You do want that a gorge which is already at the hive should think about evolving to a skulk to kill the marine instead of healing the hive? You want him to lose his 10pres he spend to become a gorge and risk being shot while you evolve to a skulk?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah devolving to a skulk is almost never the answer. As a gorge you have a massive "kill me please" on your back. Evolving to an egg just makes this worse, since eggs are weaker skill in addition to being a static target.
Finally, assuming you managed to survive you may probably die unless the marine is knifing the hive. And if they are just knifing the hive, a gorge probably could have killed him with spit.
That is one nice thing in NS2, the spit actually does fair damage.
The gorge is a dedicated support unit. This means that he (for the most part) is a non combat unit, effectively taking 1 whole player off of your offensive player count in a game. The gorge currently takes 2-3x as long to heal damage as a single marine takes to deal it.
Compare to a welder that repairs twice as fast as a gorge heals (consider that a CC has ~70% the HP of a hive), costs half as much p-res and is not a "class investment" that alters your playstyle or offensive capability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This a case for change does not make. Not without considering the asymetry of the repeat assault/single strike mechanic that seems to be in by design. I'd be interested to see how you answer necro's question on that issue.
<!--quoteo(post=1949004:date=Jul 5 2012, 07:21 AM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Jul 5 2012, 07:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949004"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is very linear thinking.. It would mean you need to kill the gorge(s) first before you start on the hive. It's also false because 1 gorge = half a marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, it required some pretty 'linear' thinking on your part to decide that I'm implying a gorge will always be heaing the hive under the current or proposed models and that you would always be able to kill him but chose not to. Basically you've completely missed my point. The thread started out with concern for scenario A, where a gorge has to heal a hive on his own after combat is resolved, and that the TTH should be a 'non-boring' amount. Since there has been no specific proposal here, there's really nothing to argue about. My post was forewarning that any changes to scenario A would have major implications for scenario B, where a gorge can heal the hive during combat safely.
I'll give you the benfit of the doubt because I think I made a reply clarifying the scenario I was imagining while you were in the midst of writing your reply.
And what of a gorge safely healing during an assault of the hive? I just want it so one marine isn't going to be able to overpower it without going in and killing the gorge. It should take more than one marine to hit a hive unless he's axing it since that puts them at risk at least. If you were to dump more gorges on the hive you'd be moving twards having too many gorges to repel an assault anyways. You'd all likely end up dead against a competent team in the long run.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Dude, it required some pretty 'linear' thinking on your part to decide that I'm implying a gorge will always be heaing the hive under the current or proposed models and that you would always be able to kill him but chose not to. Basically you've completely missed my point. The thread started out with concern for scenario A, where a gorge has to heal a hive on his own after combat is resolved, and that the TTH should be a 'non-boring' amount. Since there has been no specific proposal here, there's really nothing to argue about. My post was forewarning that any changes to scenario A would have major implications for scenario B, where a gorge can heal the hive during combat safely.
I'll give you the benfit of the doubt because I think I made a reply clarifying the scenario I was imagining while you were in the midst of writing your reply.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, it does require some pretty 'linear' thinking on your part to think that I'm implying i just want to say that a gorges take to long to heal a hive in comparison to the marines repairing their CC but i do not want a change.
And the numbers you juggled with were really strange like it has been said before. You're jumping from 2 gorges needed to neutralize the damage of 1 marine to 1 gorge needed to heal against 2 marines. If you want to make a example do a proper one.
Oh, so the purpose of this thread was <i>not</i> to open a discussion about chaging the healspeed of hives by gorges. My mistake.
What is the purpose of this thread?
Seems like we are looking for an answer to:
- Make base repair for aliens a quick task out of battle
- Maintain current state of play in battle, lest gorges out-heal an attack.
- Force marine teams to coordinate attacks more effectively in order to win.
How about making the hive itself weaker, and the crag/shifts/etc stronger to hopefully survive an attack and assist the gorges? Reduce healspray cost so does not exhaust for a long time, rather than run out in a minute. Perhaps reduce healspray AoE to compensate.
What is the purpose of this thread?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously the purpose of the thread was to start a discussion how to balance out the healing of the marines and the aliens.
Dude, it required some pretty 'linear' thinking on your part to decide that I'm implying a gorge will always be heaing the hive under the current or proposed models and that you would always be able to kill him but chose not to. Basically you've completely missed my point. The thread started out with concern for scenario A, where a gorge has to heal a hive on his own after combat is resolved, and that the TTH should be a 'non-boring' amount. Since there has been no specific proposal here, there's really nothing to argue about. My post was forewarning that any changes to scenario A would have major implications for scenario B, where a gorge can heal the hive during combat safely.
I'll give you the benfit of the doubt because I think I made a reply clarifying the scenario I was imagining while you were in the midst of writing your reply.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm a little confused as to what you're looking for in this thread. Problem is that healing as a gorge is really boring, takes a very long time to heal up a hive. There's been a couple ideas suggested to help with that. What else did you want "proposed" as you say? Honestly, I'm not trying to fight with you, I'm just trying to understand (my previous post was not intended to be a jab at you, either).
Asymmetry is the design model but it is not always the law, if something needs to change to become balanced then it should do so. I like the asymmetry mechanics of the slow-to-heal hive, but as a gorge I feel like I'm forced to sit there and hold right mouse for minutes at a time and that's incredibly dull gameplay. I would actually agree with necro that if this is the intended case, then perhaps the gorge should not be able to heal the hive at all and the hive should have a static regen rate. But that's somewhat unintuitive and the gorge role has already been diminished enough.