IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Great point demonstrating how cost *does* influence what weapon you hold, and thus their effective use / overpowered appearance, as you dont have to choose between a good weapon and a JP, currently.
You've changed my mind and I'd now consider the cost AS important as the actual interaction considering that the interaction is heavily influenced by the weapon chosen. A shotgun JP combo is far deadlier than JP and LMG and this adds to the frustration ...
But i still contend that the other issue is important still the lack of means to combat them from the alien side. I think blink is fine enough of a mechanic (i despise the unintuitive mechanic of vulnerable during blink but this has little to do with physically navigating to a JPer) but perhaps there needs to be a compromise considering the amount of swipes required? like say less available jetpack fuel per swipe?
Less fuel after you have been swiped??? I honestly couldnt think of a more confusing mechanic then that to try and nerf jetpacks... If you say that the blink mechanic if fine, why does the NS2 jetpack which is much slower, has less maneuverability, and needs to land more than the NS1 jetpack a problem? Even non-focus fades and skulks had a better time in NS1.. It all comes down to how leap and blink are designed, and how the jetpack is designed. It shouldnt be about adding strange/confusing weaknesses to the jetpack, as you already have enough reason to avoid getting hit.. It should be about modifying the blink/leap to be effective at landing hits midair.
I also agree that i would rather see a more effective and expensive jetpack, but there is risk in increasing the cost too much as you really dont want to go north of 50-55 pres total for the equipment. 20-25 pres might be a good compromise (along with an increased research cost).
<!--quoteo(post=1948597:date=Jul 3 2012, 08:44 AM:name=Nakorson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nakorson @ Jul 3 2012, 08:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948597"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh wait isn't it the same for the aliens? How often can you go fade or onos? Right as soon as i die i can evolve to onos again because it cost only 10pres. Oh wait no it doesn't. Why have marines to use the jetpack all the time? Why not pick the right time to buy them and use them effectively? It's also the way they have been used in ns1. When aliens evolve to a higher lifeform and they fail and die they have lost a lot of resources. While they are in the higher lifeform they may have some advantages but they are gone when they die. Why shouldn't this be the case with the marines? Why should they be allowed to just buy a new jetpack for nearly no cost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1949069:date=Jul 4 2012, 05:41 PM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Jul 4 2012, 05:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Less fuel after you have been swiped??? I honestly couldnt think of a more confusing mechanic then that to try and nerf jetpacks... If you say that the blink mechanic if fine, why does the NS2 jetpack which is much slower, has less maneuverability, and needs to land more than the NS1 jetpack a problem? Even non-focus fades and skulks had a better time in NS1.. It all comes down to how leap and blink are designed, and how the jetpack is designed. It shouldnt be about adding strange/confusing weaknesses to the jetpack, as you already have enough reason to avoid getting hit.. It should be about modifying the blink/leap to be effective at landing hits midair.
I also agree that i would rather see a more effective and expensive jetpack, but there is risk in increasing the cost too much as you really dont want to go north of 50-55 pres total for the equipment. 20-25 pres might be a good compromise (along with an increased research cost).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It was just an idea, and a question at that.. geeze.. :-/
I think it primarily has to do with performance currently.. that's my best bet? That and the amount of swipes needed to kill a marine who, by the time are able to purchase a JP are typically very well armored.. What was the numbers for ns1, anyhow? typical amount of swipes per Armor level?
I really hope they leave jet pack alone and create a fun way to deal with them.
Suggestion. Skulks and Fades should grapple marines out of the air and only damage a marine if they get them to the ground.
Researchable: Air Attack Once researched attacks made in the air would trigger a grapple event if a successfull attack is landed while in the air.
Fades get a body slam maneuver. A Marine would be able to fight them off with rifle butt while in a frontal grapple. and team mates would have to shoot them off you if they snatch you out of the air from behind.
A Skulk would drag a marines down to the ground so other aliens can ###### you. A Marine can repel a air attack frontal assault with rifle butt.
<!--quoteo(post=1949091:date=Jul 4 2012, 10:50 PM:name=WorthyRival)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WorthyRival @ Jul 4 2012, 10:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949091"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really hope they leave jet pack alone and create a fun way to deal with them.
Suggestion. Skulks and Fades should grapple marines out of the air and only damage a marine if they get them to the ground.
Researchable: Air Attack Once researched attacks made in the air would trigger a grapple event if a successfull attack is landed while in the air.
Fades get a body slam maneuver. A Marine would be able to fight them off with rifle butt while in a frontal grapple. and team mates would have to shoot them off you if they snatch you out of the air from behind.
A Skulk would drag a marines down to the ground so other aliens can ###### you. A Marine can repel a air attack frontal assault with rifle butt.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Effectively a 1 hit kill. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Better performance surely will make hitting those jetpackers easier, but the same will also happen to the fade. Without better blink, focus, adrenaline, proper celerity and metabolize, i really dont think the fades can do much later on. Because of the blink mechanics and lack of energy to keep blinking the fade will die very quickly. If we simply give him more energy via adrenaline/metabolize, then hes going to be too hard to kill because he can be invisible all the time and keep his damage reduction to high levels. It should be hard to kill because its fast and thus hard to aim at, not because it can tank huge amounts of damage even if the marines aim was perfect.
The lifeforms are already fairly fragile, theyre just lacking the agility that needs to go with it to work. Right now the lack of performance and bad hitreg is substituting for it. Less than 30 lvl 3 lmg bullets kills a fade. What will happen with dual minigus? Especially without focus when that dual miniguning exo is going to need 10+ swipes to kill.
Of course not. I'd set him somewhere between the lerk and the fade based on his damage and surviveabilty based on his equipment. I did the comparison because it's a big difference between losing 30-50res at once or losing 10res and being able to pickup your weapon, spend another 10res and you are as powerful as before.
Jetpacks should like anything else in the game have a trade off, if there is no other trade off except the spend resources it should become more expensive so it really becomes a trade off.
I don't think that any alien should have a "takedown move" to kill jetpackers that just doesn't fit into ns2. I'd rather see that the jetpack stays useful and that it's quite easy to use but that it shouldn't be always the obvious choice to buy a jetpack if they are available. Marines should like aliens depend on a good mix of their setup. Some people with the GL, Shotgun, Flamer, LMG some on the ground some in the air.
Edit: Oh and better performance will also increase the usefulness of the jetpack player not only the enemies fighting him.
Besides the fact that I agree with Gorgeous that it would effectively be a 1-hit kill, the notion of even more impairing effects makes me want to vomit.
One of the factors that tends to get ignored in this conversation is the strong gravity. NS1 had much weaker gravity, which made it easier to hit airborne targets (especially when they were moving). There was a longer window in which you were high enough to attack. If a jetpacker moved to the side after you had begun leaping, you could usually curve into them and still have enough height to hit them.　
In NS2's case, leap's arc is short and sharp, which means that the jetpacker can move out of your effective attack range easier. NS2's strong gravity has been bugging me since alpha and it's frustrating that most people don't even notice it.
Copy-pasted from my post in the jetpack counter thread since I really want an answer to this.
"Just to clarify the logic behind changing the jetpack. It seems to me most skulks and fades had/have trouble hitting marines moving vertically such as going to the ceiling and floor over and over in a hive area or as Ironhorse was describing in crevice. Not killing these marines can be frustrating as the move doesn't require much skill and its effectiveness is seemly a result of aliens' (or the game engine's) ineffectiveness. The effectiveness of purely vertical jp movement might be a result of performance or aliens trying to time a vertical target with horizontal movement such as leap and shadowstep, some combination of the two, or something else entirely. All I know is its frustrating as hell, jping extremely vertical requires next to no skill in my opinion, and most of all should not be rewarded. However, I've never seen anyone complaining about jetpack marines plain out-maneuvering an alien with short, horizontal or diagonal bursts which I associate with marine skill (both in regards to earlier builds and ns1).
Here's where things get really murky for me with the new build. Why would you add a fixed delay which rewards long, vertical, movements by allowing them to refuel after .7 seconds. Therefore, so long as you make sure you get .7 seconds of hangtime, you're guaranteed to have at least some fuel for a second maneuver once you land. In my mind, this mechanic also actively penalizes short bursts as they will not regenerate fuel, so long as there's not the .7 seconds after their final burst.
To reconcile the changes with observations I've made above, the new jetpack actively rewards unskillful, vertical movement, while penalizes skillful, "hop scotching", horizontal movement. Please tell me how I'm wrong because I have a huge headache from this."
<!--quoteo(post=1949190:date=Jul 5 2012, 12:04 PM:name=Jaweese)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jaweese @ Jul 5 2012, 12:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949190"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One of the factors that tends to get ignored in this conversation is the strong gravity. NS1 had much weaker gravity, which made it easier to hit airborne targets (especially when they were moving). There was a longer window in which you were high enough to attack. If a jetpacker moved to the side after you had begun leaping, you could usually curve into them and still have enough height to hit them.　
In NS2's case, leap's arc is short and sharp, which means that the jetpacker can move out of your effective attack range easier. NS2's strong gravity has been bugging me since alpha and it's frustrating that most people don't even notice it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A couple weeks ago, before leap was changed, you could leap into the air and effectively fight jetpacks. Gravity didn't change between then and now. Thoughts?
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1949501:date=Jul 6 2012, 03:54 PM:name=bily)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bily @ Jul 6 2012, 03:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949501"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's where things get really murky for me with the new build. Why would you add a fixed delay which rewards long, vertical, movements by allowing them to refuel after .7 seconds. Therefore, so long as you make sure you get .7 seconds of hangtime, you're guaranteed to have at least some fuel for a second maneuver once you land. In my mind, this mechanic also actively penalizes short bursts as they will not regenerate fuel, so long as there's not the .7 seconds after their final burst.
To reconcile the changes with observations I've made above, the new jetpack actively rewards unskillful, vertical movement, while penalizes skillful, "hop scotching", horizontal movement. Please tell me how I'm wrong because I have a huge headache from this."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with you completely, though i believe not many others will.. :-/ Also, idk if you meant "the new build" is when this 0.7 number when in or not? Just for clarification its always been there.
Fix blink all you want, with freedom of movement and no fixed time, and you will still have those incidences you listed above in areas like crevice or landing pad or cross roads or alien spawn in mineshaft etc etc..
Anyone have the numbers on the JP in ns1 since we are all trying to figure out why that one worked better? I want to know specifically how long before recharging began, was it also 0.7 sec?
Confused by what exactly that means. Wouldn't increasing leap force make more sense and have the same effect?
Also, very interested in any changes to make the gorge more like tf2's medic. Medic is my most played class, and I'd love to see the gorge inherit some of his depth.
<b>Check in by flayra: #BALANCE Reduced gravity on Leap so Skulks have more of a fighting chance against jetpackers.</b>
Testing it / not final. :-D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> First off, I'm very happy that this is getting some recognition. But it's the gravity as a whole which is too strong. Fixing the symptoms one-by-one creates too many inconsistencies and makes the physics difficult to understand. It's confusing enough that each lifeform has its own air friction.
The focus should be creating simple, universal rules - not exceptions at every turn.
<!--quoteo(post=1949512:date=Jul 6 2012, 06:21 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jul 6 2012, 06:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949512"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A couple weeks ago, before leap was changed, you could leap into the air and effectively fight jetpacks. Gravity didn't change between then and now. Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think the problem before this change was that your forward impulse of the leap was penalized too harshly for looking slightly upward. So the forward impulse was changed to remain the same no matter your view angle. The problem with that is you're now forced to leap forward even if you're looking straight up! It probably would have been best to keep the formula similar to what it was a couple patches ago, but I'm still convinced that getting the gravity right is essential in the long term.
<b>Check in by flayra: #BALANCE Reduced gravity on Leap so Skulks have more of a fighting chance against jetpackers.</b>
Testing it / not final. :-D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nice! Now just get a proper fade movement and we can almost revive the good balanced jp vs fade dogfights from glorious NS1 days.
Right now I feel clumsy and like a 70 year old when playing NS2...compared to the HL mod, I am slow, heavy, and have less control over my body. Not saying that we need the exact same mechanics again, but please at least a bit faster.
btw: Jets also feel strange, especially with the vertical thrust it feels like a NS1 jp on catpack just flying up while you are trying to get a horizontal boost to chase a fade. At the moment I actually prefer to <i>walk</i> in hallways when having a jet - or I just didn't figure out how to use it properly yet -.-
<!--quoteo(post=1950012:date=Jul 9 2012, 08:54 AM:name=blind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blind @ Jul 9 2012, 08:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1950012"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nice! Now just get a proper fade movement and we can almost revive the good balanced jp vs fade dogfights from glorious NS1 days.
Right now I feel clumsy and like a 70 year old when playing NS2...compared to the HL mod, I am slow, heavy, and have less control over my body. Not saying that we need the exact same mechanics again, but please at least a bit faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
I know you can't see the progress page because its been broken for a little bit, but if you could, you would see something in there that is addressing the fade. :)
Comments
You've changed my mind and I'd now consider the cost AS important as the actual interaction considering that the interaction is heavily influenced by the weapon chosen. A shotgun JP combo is far deadlier than JP and LMG and this adds to the frustration ...
But i still contend that the other issue is important still the lack of means to combat them from the alien side. I think blink is fine enough of a mechanic (i despise the unintuitive mechanic of vulnerable during blink but this has little to do with physically navigating to a JPer) but perhaps there needs to be a compromise considering the amount of swipes required? like say less available jetpack fuel per swipe?
I also agree that i would rather see a more effective and expensive jetpack, but there is risk in increasing the cost too much as you really dont want to go north of 50-55 pres total for the equipment. 20-25 pres might be a good compromise (along with an increased research cost).
You honestly think jetpack = fade?
?
I also agree that i would rather see a more effective and expensive jetpack, but there is risk in increasing the cost too much as you really dont want to go north of 50-55 pres total for the equipment. 20-25 pres might be a good compromise (along with an increased research cost).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was just an idea, and a question at that.. geeze.. :-/
I think it primarily has to do with performance currently.. that's my best bet? That and the amount of swipes needed to kill a marine who, by the time are able to purchase a JP are typically very well armored.. What was the numbers for ns1, anyhow? typical amount of swipes per Armor level?
Suggestion.
Skulks and Fades should grapple marines out of the air and only damage a marine if they get them to the ground.
Researchable: Air Attack
Once researched attacks made in the air would trigger a grapple event if a successfull attack is landed while in the air.
Fades get a body slam maneuver. A Marine would be able to fight them off with rifle butt while in a frontal grapple. and team mates would have to shoot them off you if they snatch you out of the air from behind.
A Skulk would drag a marines down to the ground so other aliens can ###### you. A Marine can repel a air attack frontal assault with rifle butt.
Suggestion.
Skulks and Fades should grapple marines out of the air and only damage a marine if they get them to the ground.
Researchable: Air Attack
Once researched attacks made in the air would trigger a grapple event if a successfull attack is landed while in the air.
Fades get a body slam maneuver. A Marine would be able to fight them off with rifle butt while in a frontal grapple. and team mates would have to shoot them off you if they snatch you out of the air from behind.
A Skulk would drag a marines down to the ground so other aliens can ###### you. A Marine can repel a air attack frontal assault with rifle butt.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Effectively a 1 hit kill. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
The lifeforms are already fairly fragile, theyre just lacking the agility that needs to go with it to work. Right now the lack of performance and bad hitreg is substituting for it. Less than 30 lvl 3 lmg bullets kills a fade. What will happen with dual minigus? Especially without focus when that dual miniguning exo is going to need 10+ swipes to kill.
?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course not. I'd set him somewhere between the lerk and the fade based on his damage and surviveabilty based on his equipment. I did the comparison because it's a big difference between losing 30-50res at once or losing 10res and being able to pickup your weapon, spend another 10res and you are as powerful as before.
Jetpacks should like anything else in the game have a trade off, if there is no other trade off except the spend resources it should become more expensive so it really becomes a trade off.
I don't think that any alien should have a "takedown move" to kill jetpackers that just doesn't fit into ns2. I'd rather see that the jetpack stays useful and that it's quite easy to use but that it shouldn't be always the obvious choice to buy a jetpack if they are available. Marines should like aliens depend on a good mix of their setup. Some people with the GL, Shotgun, Flamer, LMG some on the ground some in the air.
Edit:
Oh and better performance will also increase the usefulness of the jetpack player not only the enemies fighting him.
I don't remember saying a grapple a instant kill ? Maybe if your team works together. Isn't that the whole idea of the game ?
Even if it was instant kill the idea of a jetpack is not to get caught. skillfully evading capture.
In NS2's case, leap's arc is short and sharp, which means that the jetpacker can move out of your effective attack range easier. NS2's strong gravity has been bugging me since alpha and it's frustrating that most people don't even notice it.
"Just to clarify the logic behind changing the jetpack. It seems to me most skulks and fades had/have trouble hitting marines moving vertically such as going to the ceiling and floor over and over in a hive area or as Ironhorse was describing in crevice. Not killing these marines can be frustrating as the move doesn't require much skill and its effectiveness is seemly a result of aliens' (or the game engine's) ineffectiveness. The effectiveness of purely vertical jp movement might be a result of performance or aliens trying to time a vertical target with horizontal movement such as leap and shadowstep, some combination of the two, or something else entirely. All I know is its frustrating as hell, jping extremely vertical requires next to no skill in my opinion, and most of all should not be rewarded. However, I've never seen anyone complaining about jetpack marines plain out-maneuvering an alien with short, horizontal or diagonal bursts which I associate with marine skill (both in regards to earlier builds and ns1).
Here's where things get really murky for me with the new build. Why would you add a fixed delay which rewards long, vertical, movements by allowing them to refuel after .7 seconds. Therefore, so long as you make sure you get .7 seconds of hangtime, you're guaranteed to have at least some fuel for a second maneuver once you land. In my mind, this mechanic also actively penalizes short bursts as they will not regenerate fuel, so long as there's not the .7 seconds after their final burst.
To reconcile the changes with observations I've made above, the new jetpack actively rewards unskillful, vertical movement, while penalizes skillful, "hop scotching", horizontal movement. Please tell me how I'm wrong because I have a huge headache from this."
In NS2's case, leap's arc is short and sharp, which means that the jetpacker can move out of your effective attack range easier. NS2's strong gravity has been bugging me since alpha and it's frustrating that most people don't even notice it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A couple weeks ago, before leap was changed, you could leap into the air and effectively fight jetpacks. Gravity didn't change between then and now.
Thoughts?
To reconcile the changes with observations I've made above, the new jetpack actively rewards unskillful, vertical movement, while penalizes skillful, "hop scotching", horizontal movement. Please tell me how I'm wrong because I have a huge headache from this."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you completely, though i believe not many others will.. :-/
Also, idk if you meant "the new build" is when this 0.7 number when in or not? Just for clarification its always been there.
Fix blink all you want, with freedom of movement and no fixed time, and you will still have those incidences you listed above in areas like crevice or landing pad or cross roads or alien spawn in mineshaft etc etc..
Anyone have the numbers on the JP in ns1 since we are all trying to figure out why that one worked better? I want to know specifically how long before recharging began, was it also 0.7 sec?
<b>Check in by flayra: #BALANCE Reduced gravity on Leap so Skulks have more of a fighting chance against jetpackers.</b>
Testing it / not final.
:-D
Gravity <i>on </i><b>leap</b>?
(p.s., i.e: mission accomplished per gorge "medic ripoff" suggestion in other thread.)
Also, very interested in any changes to make the gorge more like tf2's medic. Medic is my most played class, and I'd love to see the gorge inherit some of his depth.
<b>Check in by flayra: #BALANCE Reduced gravity on Leap so Skulks have more of a fighting chance against jetpackers.</b>
Testing it / not final.
:-D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, I'm very happy that this is getting some recognition. But it's the gravity as a whole which is too strong. Fixing the symptoms one-by-one creates too many inconsistencies and makes the physics difficult to understand. It's confusing enough that each lifeform has its own air friction.
The focus should be creating simple, universal rules - not exceptions at every turn.
Edit: player.lua contains kgravity, try to play around with different numbers until you feel what it should be, then give me a PM with your suggestion
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the problem before this change was that your forward impulse of the leap was penalized too harshly for looking slightly upward. So the forward impulse was changed to remain the same no matter your view angle. The problem with that is you're now forced to leap forward even if you're looking straight up! It probably would have been best to keep the formula similar to what it was a couple patches ago, but I'm still convinced that getting the gravity right is essential in the long term.
<b>Check in by flayra: #BALANCE Reduced gravity on Leap so Skulks have more of a fighting chance against jetpackers.</b>
Testing it / not final.
:-D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice! Now just get a proper fade movement and we can almost revive the good balanced jp vs fade dogfights from glorious NS1 days.
Right now I feel clumsy and like a 70 year old when playing NS2...compared to the HL mod, I am slow, heavy, and have less control over my body. Not saying that we need the exact same mechanics again, but please at least a bit faster.
btw: Jets also feel strange, especially with the vertical thrust it feels like a NS1 jp on catpack just flying up while you are trying to get a horizontal boost to chase a fade. At the moment I actually prefer to <i>walk</i> in hallways when having a jet - or I just didn't figure out how to use it properly yet -.-
Right now I feel clumsy and like a 70 year old when playing NS2...compared to the HL mod, I am slow, heavy, and have less control over my body. Not saying that we need the exact same mechanics again, but please at least a bit faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1