R_viewdraw
Missy
Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11246Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11246Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">offical stance needed</div> our humble community of ns players (in New Zealand <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->) have been debating this topic for a few weeks, and Ive been browsing these forums and found only a few topics that address this subject
<b>IS</b> the HL command that lets u turn off the majority of yr HUD an exploit? is it a cheat?
and WHAT exactly is the dev teams' stance on this subject?
i do understand that the lack of topics on this subject may b due to its being 'moderated' from the forums since the topics i did find were utimately locked. so if it happens to get trashed ill take the offical stance as being 'no comment'
<b>IS</b> the HL command that lets u turn off the majority of yr HUD an exploit? is it a cheat?
and WHAT exactly is the dev teams' stance on this subject?
i do understand that the lack of topics on this subject may b due to its being 'moderated' from the forums since the topics i did find were utimately locked. so if it happens to get trashed ill take the offical stance as being 'no comment'
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Some means its an exploit, some means its a cheat, some means its just ok to use it, and some says that they take it away to get higher FPS...
I dont know what i think really, i dont use it, but i really dont know what i think about it <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anything that gives one player a definite advantage over another is an exploit.
Every exploit is interchangeably a cheat, but not every cheat is an exploit.
Removing muzzle flare, or the skulk's teeth, gives one player an advantage over another. Anyone who argues this point has their head up their @$$. A game is only a game so long as everyone is on a level playing field. Anyone being above that playing field has an *UNFAIR* advantage, and this should not be allowed.
I can pretty much assume the stance on the matter is that this is not to be allowed, as the option will be locked next patch.
Hope that clears it for ya =)
If NS locks this option in later releases, them circumventing it WOULD be cheating.
If you want to leave your opinion on the matter, debate it or both, start another thread.
Otherwise, lets just wait for an official announcement. Leaving your opinion etc isn't helping the authors initial request.
is this guy part of the dev team?
if hes not then thats the problem. ppl SAY the dev team say this and that.. but i cant seem to find the evidence. i dont believe that just cause sumone says so-and-so says this... that its concrete
of course im being nit picky, and quite pedantic.. but hey! i like to make up my own mind with as accurute information as possible.
the truth is out there, and i want it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Bump..for the people who haven't seen it yet
u would b surprised. im not trying to say he doesnt know his stuff.. but if its spread enuff it bcomes believable
ppl u trust do it everyday... like mum and dad and the whole farce of father christmas! damn them! ill have to live with that betrayal the rest of my life!
another example is the bible
[me] feels his nerves twitch, his adrenal glands go ballistic, and his muscles tense for the coming debate....[/me]
Do NOT get me started. I warn you. Don't. Some people actually have read it for themselves and do beleive what it says, and could fill an 11 page thread with arguments as to why it is true and the word of God.
People like me.
i love religious debates as much as the next biatch...
but that <b>isnt</b> wat i came for <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
i love religious debates as much as the next biatch...
but that <b>isnt</b> wat i came for <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not what I came for either, but you're obviously new, and not accustomed to my tendencies towards firey defense of my faith.
If you'd like to start a thread about it, I'll be there.
LOL thx for the invite <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=17013' target='_blank'>The challenge</a>
be gentle <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<span style='color:blue'>Technically, it does. </span>
wrong, pure ignorance at hand. That is not a flame. Ignorance is a lack of knowing, not that you're stupid. Look it up
To make use of selfishly or unethically...if everyone can do something you're not exploiting anything. For example:
<i>There was a bug/exploit only with the voodoo chipset where you could see as far as you wanted underwater with a voodoo card in any half-life mod. THAT is an exploit because only certain people can do it. </i>
A command is not an exploit my friend. I think that this issue needs to have an offical public statement. The users of the game/forums have created so much propoganda and speculation on this command it has gotten out of hand. I think that one final post by flayra or someone of equal stature should put this topic to rest.
ps - dont take it out, my laptop cant handle any models =(
How do the players feel? It seems pretty well split for players. Half want an alternative to this exploit, while the other half want to keep things as they are (r_drawviewmodel locked to 1).
Personally? I want an alternative to r_drawviewmodel. I no longer use it since ppl started calling it a cheat. Kinda weird isn't it tho? No other game has considered removing part of the HUD a cheat before.
It's like someone trying to say it's cheating to use 'sensitivity' higher than 1, because you can aim easier.
I could really care less if people use it or not, becuase I don't play games to try to be the very best. It doesn't bother me if someone has a slight advantage, I am ahving more fun WITH the models <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
No. An exploit is something that the developers don't want you to do but you find a way to do anyway. Most people either don't know about it (ignorance or they purposely don't search out how to exploit) or don't use the exploits thank goodness.
No one wants to go do your searching for you so either search yourself or wait until it's locked in the patch.
Fact is, Rhoad (Forum moderator) is pretty much in contact with the devs (how else would he be a forum moderator then?) and moderators will not lie and say some devs said it while they didn't.
So you can rely on your fellow forum moderators like Rhoad, and believe that this command is considered an exploit by the devs and therefore it will be removed.
For those of you who doesn't understand why the command is considered an exploit while hardwares are not, I will save my breath explaining since you won't understand anyways (because of the difference in concept) and this will be dealed with anyways so...
I guess this thread should get a lockeh and everyone should just settle until the dev/mods do something with it. [/IMO]
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sobe.dragon seems to be the only one with the best solution to my issue.
this is all i ask for. one simple statement.
then i can put it to rest
Until a fix or compromise can be found, use of the command is looked down upon. On a personal note, it seems a *lot* of computers can't handle models. Well guys, I have trouble in TFC, so using OGC is not a valid excuse!
Fact is, Rhoad (Forum moderator) is pretty much in contact with the devs (how else would he be a forum moderator then?) and moderators will not lie and say some devs said it while they didn't.
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<span style='color:blue'>***Watch yourself.***</span> in this case other than passing the issue off on some hypothetical statement the devs <i>supposedly</i> said. It's a hell of a lot easier to "win" an argument by going "Uh, yeah. Someone said this." and locking the thread than it is to win one by actually saying something convincing. Rhoad, in this case, is merely good for pacifying <span style='color:blue'>***Ne nice.***</span> like you.
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So you can rely on your fellow forum moderators like Rhoad, and believe that this command is considered an exploit by the devs and therefore it will be removed.
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<span style='color:blue'>***You know what? Forget that 'Be nice'. Just be quite.***</span>
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For those of you who doesn't understand why the command is considered an exploit while hardwares are not, I will save my breath explaining since you won't understand anyways (because of the difference in concept) and this will be dealed with anyways so...
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<span style='color:blue'>***So he has as much as you, only that he says it without swearing.***</span>
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I guess this thread should get a lockeh and everyone should just settle until the dev/mods do something with it. [/IMO]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:blue'>***Be nice <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->***</span>
Think you peons can handle that <b>for once</b>?
<span style='color:blue'>If that's the way you want this discussion? <b>NO.</b></span>
yeah, there is good logic, alter the half life code so you can get better framerate....
To put it bluntly:
Hardwares are stuff you buy, which you deserve to get because you paid the price for its performance. It is public at stores.
Software c_var commands especally ones like this which is not totally public because these commands do not come with the Half life manual. The manual doesn't give all these developer c_vars and explain it's usage. Therefore a normal gamer (getting a game without modifying anything) <b>would not be exposed to this command</b> and therefore it is a tweak and an advantage for tweakers/hackers/crackers etc.
And removing something that blocks your view when the other's view remains unchanged is much like wallhack because it gives you better reaction time. This is like fighting a half-blinded person with a full vision. (well actually it <i>is</i> the case...) and how is this fair?
If that is still not convincing, please help yourself searching the forum, there are many explanation about why this command should be considered an exploit. So please leave this matter alone you flame-happy posters... or just try to stay objective and give some useful points in your posts? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
[edit] Ahhh I got some even better allusions.
using this c_var is like having a race of 100m dash, except the c_var users are on steriods
using this c_var is like having a 3legged race, except the c_var users' legs are not tied.
and so on...[/edit]
I wanna see this 10 page argument as to why what the bible says is true.
I see Christianity as a cult that just became popular. You hear all the time about strange cults in america, but u just assume that what they believe is crazy. Like the leader could claim he was the son of god, now, would anyone believe him? But maybe if people started talking about some amazing things he had done.... Who knows....?
Every exploit is interchangeably a cheat, but not every cheat is an exploit.
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So low ping, higher FPS, better mouse, good headphones... are exploits/cheats then. You can't define cheating or exploiting like this simply because:
<b><span style='color:red'>The playing field will never be level on the internet </span></b>
Now on a LAN tournament where everyone has the same hardware and connection, same air-humidity even, there this definition might work.
However, if the Developers say it's a cheat, then it is. They made the game, so they make the rules.
Personally I have used r_drawviewmodel 0 in all HL mods for about 2 years, I remove the gun-model in pretty much all FPS games I play now. I started using it to get better FPS (it increases it a *lot*, especially in CS) and now I'm just used to it. If the Devs are against it I assume they will lock the value in the code. I'm just wondering why Skulks have their eyes in their mouth, they watch what they eat? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Altering the game itself is like altering the track. If you create an inside lane for yourself, then everyone else needs to be able to use it, too. But the track was designed without the added lane for a specific reason. And pretty soon the devs will take that extra lane away all together.
</analogy>