<!--quoteo(post=1969462:date=Aug 31 2012, 03:45 PM:name=MiniH0wie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MiniH0wie @ Aug 31 2012, 03:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969462"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's OK, he already posted a video of himself getting stuck there. :D
<b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Goods!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b> +feature complete! +optimisation. 24 player now supportable on 5ghz. 27-30 ticks +Beginnings of easy access pug feature! +hide hints option +increased extractor build time +finally 30 cara, but slowdown needs to go. Makes shade/cara unviable as well as onos among other things. +help widgets are really well implemented. That is how you should be thinking about implementing the red hive/cc objective icons, once only instead of an ever-present glowing flybait. +cloak shader fix and model turning improvements. +tram improvements +gl resupply from aa only
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Issues</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> -New commander UIs are harder to read - too transparant without enough colour contrast. Flame animations on alien ui are annoying, distracting and create the illusion of eating into too much game space. UI's need to have clear cut borders and minimal moving parts. -Weapon/welder drop restriction. Welding powernodes and the decision to buy a welder is now incredibly annoying. Spend 5 pres, possibly die, dont spend 5 pres, encounter broken powernode and have to run all the way back to base. Quick fix solution: Don't replace axe with welder to streamline the decision making process. -Drifter hp is over the top. Needs to be reduced high priority. -spike/flap energy management is still at the point where adrenaline is the only sane upgrade choice. Adren/cara, adren/regen. Lerk has no useful shade upgrade (sof). -rupture is spammable and has too little overall res cost (replacing cyst). This is not balanced by 'marine can shoot cysts'. -Spikes on left click, bite on right, or the option to change it :). -No downward air control on skulk anymore. Leap distance seems very predetermined now. Might be bug related? Can't really give any solid feedback on skulk since its very heavily impacted by walljump bug. -No more shadowstep bhop :(.
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro--><b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->EXO feedback<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> <b>-Mac synergy</b> Simulate proper RTS collision by limiting the number of macs that can weld an exo at any given time e.g. 3-5. Now we have a basis for thinking about reasonable inidividual mac weld rates. <b>-Armoury healing</b> Remove exo armoury healing. It promotes camping and stale games given the res investment of an exosuit. Allows purposeful griefing and kdr whoring to an extreme level . Simply reducing armoury heal rate on exo will not solve the former issue. <b>-No resupply costs</b> Exosuits are fire and forget besides constantly adjusting mac waypoints to follow. They are also zero support cost relative to a light marine. This has several problems such as making exo tech rushing more viable than upgrades first. Dominant cookiecutter build is now phasegates to 2nd cc and exo to upgrades. Implement health. It seems to be in the lua already? Implement ammo. Would personally enjoy ammo and heat management more than just heat management. <b>-Build restriction</b> Given that exo's cost pres and are not necessarily commander distributed (exo tech explosion), this drawback adds more frustration than depth. Allow single minigun to build. <b>-Jumping</b> Seems to add more problems than it does movement depth. Suggest removing it for double minigun at the very least. <b>-Armour numbers</b> Armour level modifiers are too high. 570 is a bit over the top given its damage potential (16 skulk bites + welding etc.). Suggest something like 300-420 instead or 250-370 depending on mac implementation. <b>-Heat mechanic</b> Suggest less heat dissipation if both guns are overheated. While its 'realistic' to have constant heat dissipation, double minigun needs a nerf to burst dps and more punishment for overheating. Now we have a rudimentary skill-based system that more fully takes advantage of the unique and interesting left/right click system. <b>-Dual minigun research</b> New players will buy 1 minigun without realising or experienced players will just wait for dual. There is no specific utility to splitting up single and dual research. Remove dual research and shift this cost into ammo/med resup. <b>-Movement</b> Like the speed and movement. Agree with phasegate limitation, not necessarily beacon. Beacon should always have an aggression/map presence penalty. There is no real downside to this segregation due to the presence of macs. Aliens need a way to 'reset' exo trains given their collective power. They suffer much less from the inability to collectively apply damage to small areas like onos melee.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Dual minigun research New players will buy 1 minigun without realising or experienced players will just wait for dual. There is no specific utility to splitting up single and dual research. Remove dual research and shift this cost into ammo/med resup.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or they could make dual exosuit research require three tech points (similar to how onos stomp requires three hives).
I love this game right now. It can be just as enjoyable as NS1 if you take your nostalgia goggles off. Here are a few suggestions: - Carapace shouldn't slow down the alien. Do level 1, 2 or 3 armor upgrades slow down the marines?
- I think Onos should have <a href="http://naturalselection.wikia.com/wiki/Devour" target="_blank">Devour </a>again while we are in Beta. We should even test out the Onos being able to Devour Exo's. This worked with Heavy Armor in NS1 and I do feel Onos needs a bit more in NS2.
- The map needs larger text! It is too hard for me at 1080 on a 23" monitor to read the text on the maps.
- I can't see player names that I am spectating unless I pick overhead map. i do want to mention that the spectator mode in this game is very high quality and I am very impressed with it.
Hang on SykNid, the utility of AI resources is determined by the extent of their AI?
Cyclic thinking...? Get rid of them? Dunno, I love drifters (sans SPAM, aus servs), catalyse is immense, MACs, all I ever want to see is INCREASED repair radius.
Kinda says they are good where the are currently yes? (sans SPAM, xor make flamers do 2X dmadge to drifters) that as a happy comm I won't want more or less from either of them?
Build 217 is my favourite so far. Lots to like and very little to dislike.
Pleased the health and armour rings have gone as the less clutter the better for me and the option to turn off seeing the hives/CC markers is welcome.
New (old) maps are great.
Exo is great to look at and the sounds are well done and the whole thing has been thought out really well game play wise. The speed is perfect.
Only a few things I don't like:
1. Hate the marine grunting sounds when using melee and the axe. 2. Exo with 2 mini-guns should require 3 CC's. 3. Turrets are still too weak. Hydras seem a little more effective but its been a long while since I have seen a Marine die from them. 4. The map when pressing C is too fuzzy and the icons/text are way too small. Red and green were better as well imo. 5. Exo should not be able to jump. 6. Slowdown for Skulks when using Carapace. 7. Early game is still over too quickly. 8. Onos needs a buff as Exo just shreds them in seconds. Bone Shield maybe? 9. ARCs seem redundant now we have Exo. I don't miss ARC trains.
Nice to have features:
1. Option to have mini gun on left and melee on right. Same option for Lerk Spikes/bite/spores. 2. The option to upgrade an Exo to dual mini-guns. 3. More options for different styles of xhairs. 4. More options to remove/customise HUD and hint clutter. 5. Option for different types of AA. I don't like the deferred type of AA as it just blurs the screen and always use MSAA when possible.
I don't know if it's been posted about, or if it was intended, or something. But you can't cyst past a whip. You need to unroot the whip, move it away and cyst by, then move it back and root it. Kind of annoying, and very unclear to figure out.
<!--quoteo(post=1969716:date=Sep 1 2012, 09:22 AM:name=greenpee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (greenpee @ Sep 1 2012, 09:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know if it's been posted about, or if it was intended, or something. But you can't cyst past a whip. You need to unroot the whip, move it away and cyst by, then move it back and root it. Kind of annoying, and very unclear to figure out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There seems to be a lot of bugs with cyst pathfinding in this patch.
<!--quoteo(post=1968189:date=Aug 29 2012, 12:47 PM:name=Twiggeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twiggeh @ Aug 29 2012, 12:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968189"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So.. Hydras now cost pres, and im fine with that.
But can you PLEASE change the cap? Having 3 hydras really doesnt do anything at all. couldnt it atleast be 5?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> boooooooooo thats horrible, ya I hope they do something about the hydras cause no way I'm going gorge now lol
To anyone who thinks the exo is too expensive, see how fast it takes to kill an onos lol but i think the dual guns are completely over powered (especially with alternating to have constant shooting without overheating) perhaps there could just be one bar for over heating? And using both the guns would just have it overheat quicker? Just a thought!
Seems like hydras are still useless, thats realy a shame, i also notice they shoot again, very un-accuracy. I mean 3 cost 9 resources, which is very much and they still die quick.
I would like to see a future patch, that make it possible to exit the exosuit per USE key. I mean it would help the game, press use, the player exit the suit (locked?), can weld it and re-enter it. If every marine is exo, nobody can build and there is no way to do it except if you suicide. I realy like it, but it would balance the game a bit i guess.
Excellent patch, noticing no server crashes anymore. I've noticed a few problems though.
Can't hear pistol sounds as an alien, sometimes my game crashes about 5 minutes into a round for no apparent reason, and no health bar above marines as marine commander.
I've suspected for a while, but now seen enough times that I'm satisfied there are two fairly game breaking balance problems with b217. <ol type='1'><li><b>Drifters</b> are now capable of dealing huge amounts of damage. A drifter train is capable of causing the kind of problems ARCs were nerfed for, eg. in big enough waves, they can solo Command Stations.</li><li><b>MACs</b> in small groups are almost invincible to many lifeforms. As soon as you bite or swipe one, the other starts welding. 3 or more MACs are invincible to everything except bile bomb. A MAC train following EXOs makes EXOs effectively invincible. When the aliens are down to one hive, bile bomb is not available and so there is no way for aliens to respond.</li></ol> Drifters aren't often abused for various reasons but it's almost inevitable that marines abuse MACs in the late game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->MACs in small groups are almost invincible to many lifeforms. As soon as you bite or swipe one, the other starts welding. 3 or more MACs are invincible to everything except bile bomb. A MAC train following EXOs makes EXOs effectively invincible. When the aliens are down to one hive, bile bomb is not available and so there is no way for aliens to respond.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So a marine team with a few hundred resources worth of late-game tech will almost always win against 1-hive aliens. Why is this a problem?
So many "balance" problems translate to "the team that's controlled the map and most of the resources for the entire game is far more likely to win".
<!--quoteo(post=1970438:date=Sep 3 2012, 08:19 AM:name=paella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paella @ Sep 3 2012, 08:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970438"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So a marine team with a few hundred resources worth of late-game tech will almost always win against 1-hive aliens. Why is this a problem?
So many "balance" problems translate to "the team that's controlled the map and most of the resources for the entire game is far more likely to win".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skip the majority of his post then shrug it off as not a balance problem? MACs need reworking. Even before EXOs, they were insanely powerful on the front lines. Take 1 or 2 with 2-3 shotty marines on a hive push and the eggs are camped and hive is down. IIRC 2 or more MACs also outheal any structure you attempt to kill, disregarding bile, and its unreasonable to have half of your team playing tag with a MAC train to do any sort of damage.
So I'm Khammanding and I hear that some exos are coming from computer lab to my hive in sub. "Ah-ha!!" I think "I'll upgrade my already mature whips to bombard! I'll trust the tooltip, which says 'disintegrates armor'. That should teach those walking tincans who's boss!!"
Well, those were a lot of resources very badly spent. They did nothing. Not in the metaphorical nothing of 'they failed to do their purpose', nothing in the 'they didn't move at all' sense.
Why is whip bombard in the game, actually? It's the most useless and least used feature ever to be implemented, in a fierce competition with Xenocide.
<!--quoteo(post=1970450:date=Sep 3 2012, 09:44 AM:name={GGs} Chicken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ({GGs} Chicken @ Sep 3 2012, 09:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skip the majority of his post then shrug it off as not a balance problem? MACs need reworking. Even before EXOs, they were insanely powerful on the front lines. Take 1 or 2 with 2-3 shotty marines on a hive push and the eggs are camped and hive is down. IIRC 2 or more MACs also outheal any structure you attempt to kill, disregarding bile, and its unreasonable to have half of your team playing tag with a MAC train to do any sort of damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed. They were balanced before autoweld, just because no one could micro them well enough.
Or do away with autoweld? It's certainly useful, but a little too much.
Maybe if it worked in very small radius around it, such that it would only matter for any structure it was previously welding, or marines that walk up to it.
<!--quoteo(post=1970417:date=Sep 3 2012, 08:11 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Sep 3 2012, 08:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm, one grenade launcher should be more then enough to take care of any Drifter problems Khyron :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats the same logic people use with MACs - use bilebomb. Its true, but its not great when something is completely rock-paper-scissors.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2012
That is why I bring <a href="http://www.photohome.com/pictures/aircraft-pictures/fighters/a-10-warthog-tank-buster-1a.jpg" target="_blank">this baby</a> to any competitive rock-paper-scissors match
<!--quoteo(post=1970417:date=Sep 4 2012, 12:11 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Sep 4 2012, 12:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm, one grenade launcher should be more then enough to take care of any Drifter problems Khyron :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a fair point, I hadn't thought about that. Even so, if you remember back to how ARCs were nerfed even when they died really quickly due to bile bomb, the precedence there seemed to be that NPC units shouldn't have a sudden/overwhelming influence on the end game conditions. I'm not saying the precedence necessitates a change, I'm just saying it suggests a change might be required.
<!--quoteo(post=1970438:date=Sep 4 2012, 01:19 AM:name=paella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paella @ Sep 4 2012, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970438"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So a marine team with a few hundred resources worth of late-game tech will almost always win against 1-hive aliens. Why is this a problem?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I completely understand where you're coming from. I'm all for removing stalemates and making games end faster when there's an obvious outcome. Regardless, MACs are a problem. The situation I described above is, in my view, going against one of the design principles - there should be no game ending technology. Further, MACs are dirt cheep - they by no means require the marines to have extensive map control. And I didn't mention above how MACs can make sentries invincible, which surely is a big concern given how fragile sentries are supposed to be.
Removing autoweld would be an easy but crude solution, maybe ok for the short term. Commanders would build fewer MACs, no doubt. I don't really like the idea that the alien lifeforms would sort of be battling the commander's reaction time, or using up his time for that kind of thing. Autoweld feels like a sensible feature for MACs to have. I think a better solution would be to slow the repair speed such that a skulk could kill a MAC that was being repaired by 2-3 other MACS and also improve MAC collision detection to prevent huge numbers of MACs clustering around something. An alternative solution might involve some new combat mechanic, like parasiting a MAC disables it for a short time, or something like that.
Only gripe is the abundance of t-rez lifeforms, at least make them = to the actual cost in prez. There can be upwards of 6 fades on the field when marines still hold 2 chairs, or 4+ exos when aliens have 2-3 hives, all dropped by a rez-swimming comm.
<!--quoteo(post=1970417:date=Sep 4 2012, 12:11 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Sep 4 2012, 12:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm, one grenade launcher should be more then enough to take care of any Drifter problems Khyron :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Grenade launcher should not be as powerful as it is 'metagame' wise. Specifically, grenade launcher rushing should not be the only viable strategy. Also, the threat of drifter rushing should not be so large that grenade launcher rush is again, the only viable strategy. Mass drifter timings will always hit before non-rushed grenade launchers are out e.g. phasegates to aa. Thats the whole point of drifter rushing.
Again, the problem is not that they do too much damage (4 per tick), but that they have too much hp, thus rendering them incredibly hard to kill by anything BUT grenade launchers and flamethrowers. They were actually pretty balanced at 100-150 hp cost vs power wise.
Besides, the active kham timing response to grenade launchers is whip spam and eventual train, not drifter train. (echo is so useless lol).
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1970703:date=Sep 3 2012, 06:01 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Sep 3 2012, 06:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970703"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Grenade launcher should not be as powerful as it is 'metagame' wise. Specifically, grenade launcher rushing should not be the only viable strategy. Also, the threat of drifter rushing should not be so large that grenade launcher rush is again, the only viable strategy. Mass drifter timings will always hit before non-rushed grenade launchers are out e.g. phasegates to aa. Thats the whole point of drifter rushing.
Again, the problem is not that they do too much damage (4 per tick), but that they have too much hp, thus rendering them incredibly hard to kill by anything BUT grenade launchers and flamethrowers. They were actually pretty balanced at 100-150 hp cost vs power wise.
Besides, the active kham timing response to grenade launchers is whip spam and eventual train, not drifter train. (echo is so useless lol).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you tried using Mortein Drifter Mines? :P
On a serious note, MAC/Drifter armies are pretty silly. An army of MACs (with marine support) are even more difficult to stop as they can repair each other.
<!--quoteo(post=1970703:date=Sep 4 2012, 11:01 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Sep 4 2012, 11:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970703"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Grenade launcher should not be as powerful as it is 'metagame' wise. Specifically, grenade launcher rushing should not be the only viable strategy. Also, the threat of drifter rushing should not be so large that grenade launcher rush is again, the only viable strategy. Mass drifter timings will always hit before non-rushed grenade launchers are out e.g. phasegates to aa. Thats the whole point of drifter rushing.
Again, the problem is not that they do too much damage (4 per tick), but that they have too much hp, thus rendering them incredibly hard to kill by anything BUT grenade launchers and flamethrowers. They were actually pretty balanced at 100-150 hp cost vs power wise.
Besides, the active kham timing response to grenade launchers is whip spam and eventual train, not drifter train. (echo is so useless lol).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, you're right, their survivability is more the problem than their DPS. And you're right that GL isn't an available response to drifter rushing. I still don't understand what the game gains by having drifters or MACs able to deal out DPS. I'd be happy to see those attack features removed, but I'd also be curious to know what you think since you do love drifter rushing so much.
Mac's just repair way to much it takes away a massive maintenance role from the marines it used to be a big and important job making sure all the structures where 100%..
Now 1 mac auto repairs everything very quickly..
Mac's need to repair at 1/10th of the rate they do now and be limited to 1 Mac per structure....
Comments
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=120444" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=120444</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's like those times when I did mapping and didn't check if an Onos could get everywhere!
+feature complete!
+optimisation. 24 player now supportable on 5ghz. 27-30 ticks
+Beginnings of easy access pug feature!
+hide hints option
+increased extractor build time
+finally 30 cara, but slowdown needs to go. Makes shade/cara unviable as well as onos among other things.
+help widgets are really well implemented. That is how you should be thinking about implementing the red hive/cc objective icons, once only instead of an ever-present glowing flybait.
+cloak shader fix and model turning improvements.
+tram improvements
+gl resupply from aa only
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Issues</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
-New commander UIs are harder to read - too transparant without enough colour contrast. Flame animations on alien ui are annoying, distracting and create the illusion of eating into too much game space. UI's need to have clear cut borders and minimal moving parts.
-Weapon/welder drop restriction. Welding powernodes and the decision to buy a welder is now incredibly annoying. Spend 5 pres, possibly die, dont spend 5 pres, encounter broken powernode and have to run all the way back to base. Quick fix solution: Don't replace axe with welder to streamline the decision making process.
-Drifter hp is over the top. Needs to be reduced high priority.
-spike/flap energy management is still at the point where adrenaline is the only sane upgrade choice. Adren/cara, adren/regen. Lerk has no useful shade upgrade (sof).
-rupture is spammable and has too little overall res cost (replacing cyst). This is not balanced by 'marine can shoot cysts'.
-Spikes on left click, bite on right, or the option to change it :).
-No downward air control on skulk anymore. Leap distance seems very predetermined now. Might be bug related? Can't really give any solid feedback on skulk since its very heavily impacted by walljump bug.
-No more shadowstep bhop :(.
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro--><b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->EXO feedback<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b>-Mac synergy</b>
Simulate proper RTS collision by limiting the number of macs that can weld an exo at any given time e.g. 3-5. Now we have a basis for thinking about reasonable inidividual mac weld rates.
<b>-Armoury healing</b>
Remove exo armoury healing. It promotes camping and stale games given the res investment of an exosuit. Allows purposeful griefing and kdr whoring to an extreme level . Simply reducing armoury heal rate on exo will not solve the former issue.
<b>-No resupply costs</b>
Exosuits are fire and forget besides constantly adjusting mac waypoints to follow. They are also zero support cost relative to a light marine. This has several problems such as making exo tech rushing more viable than upgrades first. Dominant cookiecutter build is now phasegates to 2nd cc and exo to upgrades.
Implement health. It seems to be in the lua already?
Implement ammo. Would personally enjoy ammo and heat management more than just heat management.
<b>-Build restriction</b>
Given that exo's cost pres and are not necessarily commander distributed (exo tech explosion), this drawback adds more frustration than depth. Allow single minigun to build.
<b>-Jumping</b>
Seems to add more problems than it does movement depth. Suggest removing it for double minigun at the very least.
<b>-Armour numbers</b>
Armour level modifiers are too high. 570 is a bit over the top given its damage potential (16 skulk bites + welding etc.). Suggest something like 300-420 instead or 250-370 depending on mac implementation.
<b>-Heat mechanic</b>
Suggest less heat dissipation if both guns are overheated. While its 'realistic' to have constant heat dissipation, double minigun needs a nerf to burst dps and more punishment for overheating. Now we have a rudimentary skill-based system that more fully takes advantage of the unique and interesting left/right click system.
<b>-Dual minigun research</b>
New players will buy 1 minigun without realising or experienced players will just wait for dual. There is no specific utility to splitting up single and dual research. Remove dual research and shift this cost into ammo/med resup.
<b>-Movement</b>
Like the speed and movement. Agree with phasegate limitation, not necessarily beacon. Beacon should always have an aggression/map presence penalty. There is no real downside to this segregation due to the presence of macs. Aliens need a way to 'reset' exo trains given their collective power. They suffer much less from the inability to collectively apply damage to small areas like onos melee.
New players will buy 1 minigun without realising or experienced players will just wait for dual. There is no specific utility to splitting up single and dual research. Remove dual research and shift this cost into ammo/med resup.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or they could make dual exosuit research require three tech points (similar to how onos stomp requires three hives).
Here are a few suggestions:
- Carapace shouldn't slow down the alien. Do level 1, 2 or 3 armor upgrades slow down the marines?
- I think Onos should have <a href="http://naturalselection.wikia.com/wiki/Devour" target="_blank">Devour </a>again while we are in Beta. We should even test out the Onos being able to Devour Exo's. This worked with Heavy Armor in NS1 and I do feel Onos needs a bit more in NS2.
- The map needs larger text! It is too hard for me at 1080 on a 23" monitor to read the text on the maps.
- I can't see player names that I am spectating unless I pick overhead map. i do want to mention that the spectator mode in this game is very high quality and I am very impressed with it.
Cyclic thinking...? Get rid of them? Dunno, I love drifters (sans SPAM, aus servs), catalyse is immense, MACs, all I ever want to see is INCREASED repair radius.
Kinda says they are good where the are currently yes? (sans SPAM, xor make flamers do 2X dmadge to drifters) that as a happy comm I won't want more or less from either of them?
Except maybe less spam and more flair/re.
is the funniest thing
ever.
Seriously, never remove it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm 100% certain that because you have said this they will now remove it.
Pleased the health and armour rings have gone as the less clutter the better for me and the option to turn off seeing the hives/CC markers is welcome.
New (old) maps are great.
Exo is great to look at and the sounds are well done and the whole thing has been thought out really well game play wise. The speed is perfect.
Only a few things I don't like:
1. Hate the marine grunting sounds when using melee and the axe.
2. Exo with 2 mini-guns should require 3 CC's.
3. Turrets are still too weak. Hydras seem a little more effective but its been a long while since I have seen a Marine die from them.
4. The map when pressing C is too fuzzy and the icons/text are way too small. Red and green were better as well imo.
5. Exo should not be able to jump.
6. Slowdown for Skulks when using Carapace.
7. Early game is still over too quickly.
8. Onos needs a buff as Exo just shreds them in seconds. Bone Shield maybe?
9. ARCs seem redundant now we have Exo. I don't miss ARC trains.
Nice to have features:
1. Option to have mini gun on left and melee on right. Same option for Lerk Spikes/bite/spores.
2. The option to upgrade an Exo to dual mini-guns.
3. More options for different styles of xhairs.
4. More options to remove/customise HUD and hint clutter.
5. Option for different types of AA. I don't like the deferred type of AA as it just blurs the screen and always use MSAA when possible.
Congrats on 217 UW.
Sal
There seems to be a lot of bugs with cyst pathfinding in this patch.
But can you PLEASE change the cap? Having 3 hydras really doesnt do anything at all. couldnt it atleast be 5?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
boooooooooo thats horrible, ya I hope they do something about the hydras cause no way I'm going gorge now lol
To anyone who thinks the exo is too expensive, see how fast it takes to kill an onos lol but i think the dual guns are completely over powered (especially with alternating to have constant shooting without overheating) perhaps there could just be one bar for over heating? And using both the guns would just have it overheat quicker? Just a thought!
I mean 3 cost 9 resources, which is very much and they still die quick.
I would like to see a future patch, that make it possible to exit the exosuit per USE key.
I mean it would help the game, press use, the player exit the suit (locked?), can weld it and re-enter it.
If every marine is exo, nobody can build and there is no way to do it except if you suicide.
I realy like it, but it would balance the game a bit i guess.
Can't hear pistol sounds as an alien, sometimes my game crashes about 5 minutes into a round for no apparent reason, and no health bar above marines as marine commander.
<ol type='1'><li><b>Drifters</b> are now capable of dealing huge amounts of damage. A drifter train is capable of causing the kind of problems ARCs were nerfed for, eg. in big enough waves, they can solo Command Stations.</li><li><b>MACs</b> in small groups are almost invincible to many lifeforms. As soon as you bite or swipe one, the other starts welding. 3 or more MACs are invincible to everything except bile bomb. A MAC train following EXOs makes EXOs effectively invincible. When the aliens are down to one hive, bile bomb is not available and so there is no way for aliens to respond.</li></ol>
Drifters aren't often abused for various reasons but it's almost inevitable that marines abuse MACs in the late game.
good idea, hydra cap needs to be increased now and this seems a logical way to do it.
So a marine team with a few hundred resources worth of late-game tech will almost always win against 1-hive aliens. Why is this a problem?
So many "balance" problems translate to "the team that's controlled the map and most of the resources for the entire game is far more likely to win".
So many "balance" problems translate to "the team that's controlled the map and most of the resources for the entire game is far more likely to win".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skip the majority of his post then shrug it off as not a balance problem? MACs need reworking. Even before EXOs, they were insanely powerful on the front lines. Take 1 or 2 with 2-3 shotty marines on a hive push and the eggs are camped and hive is down. IIRC 2 or more MACs also outheal any structure you attempt to kill, disregarding bile, and its unreasonable to have half of your team playing tag with a MAC train to do any sort of damage.
Well, those were a lot of resources very badly spent. They did nothing. Not in the metaphorical nothing of 'they failed to do their purpose', nothing in the 'they didn't move at all' sense.
Why is whip bombard in the game, actually? It's the most useless and least used feature ever to be implemented, in a fierce competition with Xenocide.
Indeed. They were balanced before autoweld, just because no one could micro them well enough.
Now we need a max weld rate.
Maybe if it worked in very small radius around it, such that it would only matter for any structure it was previously welding, or marines that walk up to it.
Thats the same logic people use with MACs - use bilebomb. Its true, but its not great when something is completely rock-paper-scissors.
It wasn't easy but you could kind of bite the node and then a mac, the macs focus on the node first, and slowly you can get a mac down at a time.
Bile bomb isn't always 100% required.
That's a fair point, I hadn't thought about that. Even so, if you remember back to how ARCs were nerfed even when they died really quickly due to bile bomb, the precedence there seemed to be that NPC units shouldn't have a sudden/overwhelming influence on the end game conditions. I'm not saying the precedence necessitates a change, I'm just saying it suggests a change might be required.
<!--quoteo(post=1970438:date=Sep 4 2012, 01:19 AM:name=paella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paella @ Sep 4 2012, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970438"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So a marine team with a few hundred resources worth of late-game tech will almost always win against 1-hive aliens. Why is this a problem?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I completely understand where you're coming from. I'm all for removing stalemates and making games end faster when there's an obvious outcome. Regardless, MACs are a problem. The situation I described above is, in my view, going against one of the design principles - there should be no game ending technology. Further, MACs are dirt cheep - they by no means require the marines to have extensive map control. And I didn't mention above how MACs can make sentries invincible, which surely is a big concern given how fragile sentries are supposed to be.
Removing autoweld would be an easy but crude solution, maybe ok for the short term. Commanders would build fewer MACs, no doubt. I don't really like the idea that the alien lifeforms would sort of be battling the commander's reaction time, or using up his time for that kind of thing. Autoweld feels like a sensible feature for MACs to have. I think a better solution would be to slow the repair speed such that a skulk could kill a MAC that was being repaired by 2-3 other MACS and also improve MAC collision detection to prevent huge numbers of MACs clustering around something. An alternative solution might involve some new combat mechanic, like parasiting a MAC disables it for a short time, or something like that.
Grenade launcher should not be as powerful as it is 'metagame' wise. Specifically, grenade launcher rushing should not be the only viable strategy. Also, the threat of drifter rushing should not be so large that grenade launcher rush is again, the only viable strategy.
Mass drifter timings will always hit before non-rushed grenade launchers are out e.g. phasegates to aa. Thats the whole point of drifter rushing.
Again, the problem is not that they do too much damage (4 per tick), but that they have too much hp, thus rendering them incredibly hard to kill by anything BUT grenade launchers and flamethrowers. They were actually pretty balanced at 100-150 hp cost vs power wise.
Besides, the active kham timing response to grenade launchers is whip spam and eventual train, not drifter train. (echo is so useless lol).
Mass drifter timings will always hit before non-rushed grenade launchers are out e.g. phasegates to aa. Thats the whole point of drifter rushing.
Again, the problem is not that they do too much damage (4 per tick), but that they have too much hp, thus rendering them incredibly hard to kill by anything BUT grenade launchers and flamethrowers. They were actually pretty balanced at 100-150 hp cost vs power wise.
Besides, the active kham timing response to grenade launchers is whip spam and eventual train, not drifter train. (echo is so useless lol).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you tried using Mortein Drifter Mines? :P
On a serious note, MAC/Drifter armies are pretty silly. An army of MACs (with marine support) are even more difficult to stop as they can repair each other.
Mass drifter timings will always hit before non-rushed grenade launchers are out e.g. phasegates to aa. Thats the whole point of drifter rushing.
Again, the problem is not that they do too much damage (4 per tick), but that they have too much hp, thus rendering them incredibly hard to kill by anything BUT grenade launchers and flamethrowers. They were actually pretty balanced at 100-150 hp cost vs power wise.
Besides, the active kham timing response to grenade launchers is whip spam and eventual train, not drifter train. (echo is so useless lol).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, you're right, their survivability is more the problem than their DPS. And you're right that GL isn't an available response to drifter rushing. I still don't understand what the game gains by having drifters or MACs able to deal out DPS. I'd be happy to see those attack features removed, but I'd also be curious to know what you think since you do love drifter rushing so much.
Now 1 mac auto repairs everything very quickly..
Mac's need to repair at 1/10th of the rate they do now and be limited to 1 Mac per structure....