<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe if GG's were had, honestly all i saw was alot of *$#@. The fact that the server 'issues' were magically resolved and then the other 'oddities' its pretty obvious that more was going on then is known...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im not even sure what your implying, perhaps it would be better if u just say it without all the ""
Honestly, ive tried to be as polite as i can here, i know i lost my rag when u wanted to play all the rounds on a euro server, but ive tried to apologise, and be nice. But i want to know exactly what you are talking about. So either say it, or lets just say gg, and be done with it.
<!--quoteo(post=1974754:date=Sep 9 2012, 06:48 PM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Sep 9 2012, 06:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1974754"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe if GG's were had, honestly all i saw was alot of *$#@. The fact that the server 'issues' were magically resolved and then the other 'oddities' its pretty obvious that more was going on then is known...
From the rounds I saw the first day its pretty clear who the winners should have been, doesnt really matter much in the end but when your trying to promote competitive gameplay and then have teams winning because of unbalanced or arguably unfun gameplay... it doesnt do much to make people want to play.. IMO ofcourse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The server crashes were probably from one of the 1k+ randoms on the stream, I doubt anyone in the community would do something like that. They could have gotten the IP for the servers via the console being opened on stream displaying the info or easily found using sites like Nanogrid or Play4dead. So while both this and the game balance issues are really unfortunate I don't see how either could have really been avoided.
I would rather have a light hearted mini-tourny to help publicly promote the game (which it really did) than to not have had anything at all, but that's just me. I don't see why it had to be viewed so harshly, **** happens :/
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would rather have a light hearted mini-tourny to help publicly promote the game (which it really did) than to not have had anything at all, but that's just me. I don't see why it had to be viewed so harshly, **** happens :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not accusing any team of causing it, just saying that there is more there going on then is known... To say its a random causing it is pretty naive as most likely you would need to have some knowledge of NS2 to cause that...
You can promote the game all day long but honestly when you see games that play out the way those did, and end the way they did I would not want to play that, nor could I recommend someone to play a game like that competitively... I dont play for any team my posts are not about the outcome of the tournament.. just how the games were actually played.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1974755:date=Sep 10 2012, 01:48 AM:name=RedDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RedDragon @ Sep 10 2012, 01:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1974755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This isn't the first time I've had to point out that you would be better served by maintaining a polite and civil attitude towards members of the community Fana. You're well respected, but you have a habit of making biting, if not all together hostile, comments towards people you disagree with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You would be better served by not interpreting everything as an insult and taking great offense at innocent remarks.
<!--quoteo(post=1974757:date=Sep 10 2012, 01:56 AM:name=Hunter.S.T.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hunter.S.T. @ Sep 10 2012, 01:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1974757"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->when u wanted to play all the rounds on a euro server<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We never <i><u>wanted</u></i> to play all the rounds on a euro server.
<!--quoteo(post=1974753:date=Sep 10 2012, 01:42 AM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Sep 10 2012, 01:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1974753"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was just a small beta tourny... and it's over, can't the teams just say GG and start preparing for the next event instead of trying to invalidate each other?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're right of course, but it's very difficult to resist <a href="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png" target="_blank">this</a>.
<!--quoteo(post=1974763:date=Sep 9 2012, 09:15 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Sep 9 2012, 09:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1974763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You would be better served by not interpreting everything as an insult and taking great offense at innocent remarks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've taken no offense, simply offered you my opinion. Being defensive only validates my point.
<!--quoteo(post=1974785:date=Sep 10 2012, 04:57 AM:name=WasabiOne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WasabiOne @ Sep 10 2012, 04:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1974785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When we have 1400 people in the stream and we are making people wait and wait and wait it looks really bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you run some comercials, talk about the rounds, try to conduct some interviews with the players of whatever. If the casters don't know what to do between rounds thats the casters problem, not the players. You don't have to just sit afk in the ready room waiting.
I know there were server issues, and that this might be a bit off topic, but this seems like it's becoming a trend in most games casted for players to "hurry up for the stream". I'll tell you one thing. I'll play when I'm damn ready to play. If the casters don't like it they can disconnect for all I care.
<!--quoteo(post=1974785:date=Sep 9 2012, 06:57 PM:name=WasabiOne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WasabiOne @ Sep 9 2012, 06:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1974785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lastly to those that take issue with me questioning the subs, yes it was not a rule on ENSL.org, I was mearly stating that I dont think it was fair. I know you have enough players for two teams but that doesnt mean you get to swap everyone you want out each round, that is unfair in my opinion, one player per round is understandable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Player swapping is completely acceptable in many/most online gaming leagues.
ESPECIALLY considering the fact that the match was played ahead of schedule and their "first string" players were not all available, when those players did become available they were swapped in.
<!--quoteo(post=1974785:date=Sep 9 2012, 10:57 PM:name=WasabiOne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WasabiOne @ Sep 9 2012, 10:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1974785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh the drama :P This is mainly why I stay away from the forums... to clarify, I did not call you a liar, however at our teamspeak meeting on Friday afternoon Nxzl had still not signed up for the cup, it was in that teamspeak meeting Nxzl said they wanted to play if they had enough. Again, congratulations to Nxzl they have a great team, I even talked about how good they were in the stream before the games even begun. I do not question their skill or ability to play the game and win.
For those they claim Arc wanted to play on EU only, thats BS. I was the one asking for that too happen since Nxzl's server has a ban on Eh and couldnt be removed. When we have 1400 people in the stream and we are making people wait and wait and wait it looks really bad. I suggested doing the other rounds on EU server just to be done with it and continue the games, I do realize this is somewhat unfair due in part to the ping disadvantage, but again we were trying to keep things rolling for the stream.
Lastly to those that take issue with me questioning the subs, yes it was not a rule on ENSL.org, I was mearly stating that I dont think it was fair. I know you have enough players for two teams but that doesnt mean you get to swap everyone you want out each round, that is unfair in my opinion, one player per round is understandable.
The games are done, they are over, there is a winner. Congratz to Nxzl again and well played Arc, it was exciting to watch no matter the outcome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I clarified this elsewhere but I'll state it again here. Eh (or Ryyan) was not actually banned from the nxzl server during the match. We simply assumed he was still banned because he said he couldn't join the server. But we looked into it later and he was not actually on any ban list, anywhere, for the server, during the match, so there was no reason that the server should have kicked him. To reiterate, we don't know why he was having problems joining our server, but it wasn't because he was banned.
Lets also be fair. It was not "suggested" to us that we play the rest of the rounds on a EU server. We were <i>told</i> that we had three minutes to find another server or our only other option was to play on an EU server.
I understand that this tournament was great for NS publicity, and I'm all for exposing the game to as many people as possible. But the server issues were not something we could control, so it was unreasonable to change the tournament format at the last minute simply for the sake of viewership.
If what you wanted was a show match, you should have put the tournament match on hold, and Nexzil would have been happy to have a show match for NS2HD on whatever server was available. But this was a tournament, and to simply give us no option other than play at a disadvantage or forfeit was, quite frankly, ridiculous. You think our subs were unfair, but that was blatantly unreasonable, by an standard.
On the topic of subs though, I don't understand why you persist in calling it unfair when it was not stated anywhere that there was a rule against it. Further, we signed up well over seven people to our roster, so I'm not sure what you were expecting, but not only was there no rule against it, the system in place seemed to promote it.
And again, Natural Selection is a game with asymetrical teams. I can understand why a game like Counter Strike might have a rule saying no more than one sub between rounds (though I still don't understand why it would), but if any game had any reason to have two totally separate teams play under the same name, then Natural Selection is that game.
You may not have liked it, but again, publicly calling it unfair diminishes our hard, HARD, earned victory, and (in my opinion) is extremely rude.
But that's just my opinion. Thanks for the congrats, and I'm glad the tournament was successful.
Just for the record Fana, (not that is matters at this stage) but we had won a practice round against you guys on Summit. I recall the opening where you hit us on Atrium, I had a double (triple kill?) and nSidia proceeded to go like 24 and 6 or something? He was wrecking you guys. We lost the rest of the halves. But then again we rarely had our best lineup in those practices.
GGs all, I don't see why this drama was necessary o_o
<!--quoteo(post=1974832:date=Sep 10 2012, 01:17 AM:name=eh?)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eh? @ Sep 10 2012, 01:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1974832"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So for the record I'm still banned.
You're a pretty good admin, ######lear.
Just so everyone knows how ###### locklear is, I was actually banned from the nxzl server during a match between our two teams.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Preaty sure I explained that you weren't actually banned. Donno what kind of client problems you were having, but you weren't on the server ban list. I believe it was actually cleared this morning and you still couldn't get in. Can't imagine what was holding it up on your end, but it is what it is. It was a gg regardless.
<!--quoteo(post=1974839:date=Sep 10 2012, 01:29 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Sep 10 2012, 01:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1974839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why did the servers crash anyway? I want a no BS answer in 60 seconds...
*hides*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol.
We don't know exactly, but I think Ryne managed to confirm that some third party was crashing the servers though we were never told any more than that.
We're not sure how, but the game code is exposed so all it would take is some decent programming knowledge and some familiarity with the NS2 server code to do it, I suspect. It doesn't seem like it was very complicated, as I think they actually took down a couple of the All-in servers before we switched to the 420 server.
Honestly, all the talk about moving the matches to an EU server was kinda moot, in all likely-hood they would have just kept continuing to crash whatever server we were playing on.
Why is there always drama when the super team don't win? It happened when we(All-In) beat the EU mix. And now when nxzl. beats arc (super team). I see poor sportsmanship and poor losers with ego's from ns1 days. This isnt ns1 boys, the game has been built so more ppl can be good at it. I didnt get to watch yesterday but ive read here and heard around. It was a tie then issues. You both had chances to go at it today and nxzl got the best of arc. As i knew it would happen Fana and eh are the first to come crying and talking ###### here, you cant just take it and walk with it. As for you Eh? you know why you have been banned from many NA servers as of now. And even tho there is not 100 % proof any of its for sure, there were still words from your mouth to give ppl to think shady stuff. At the end of the day it was gg's and the losers need to suck it up untill next time. GG's nxzl.
Comments
Im not even sure what your implying, perhaps it would be better if u just say it without all the ""
Honestly, ive tried to be as polite as i can here, i know i lost my rag when u wanted to play all the rounds on a euro server, but ive tried to apologise, and be nice. But i want to know exactly what you are talking about. So either say it, or lets just say gg, and be done with it.
From the rounds I saw the first day its pretty clear who the winners should have been, doesnt really matter much in the end but when your trying to promote competitive gameplay and then have teams winning because of unbalanced or arguably unfun gameplay... it doesnt do much to make people want to play.. IMO ofcourse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The server crashes were probably from one of the 1k+ randoms on the stream, I doubt anyone in the community would do something like that. They could have gotten the IP for the servers via the console being opened on stream displaying the info or easily found using sites like Nanogrid or Play4dead. So while both this and the game balance issues are really unfortunate I don't see how either could have really been avoided.
I would rather have a light hearted mini-tourny to help publicly promote the game (which it really did) than to not have had anything at all, but that's just me. I don't see why it had to be viewed so harshly, **** happens :/
Fond memories of the cal forums.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would rather have a light hearted mini-tourny to help publicly promote the game (which it really did) than to not have had anything at all, but that's just me. I don't see why it had to be viewed so harshly, **** happens :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Word.
You can promote the game all day long but honestly when you see games that play out the way those did, and end the way they did I would not want to play that, nor could I recommend someone to play a game like that competitively... I dont play for any team my posts are not about the outcome of the tournament.. just how the games were actually played.
lol. sigh.
You would be better served by not interpreting everything as an insult and taking great offense at innocent remarks.
<!--quoteo(post=1974757:date=Sep 10 2012, 01:56 AM:name=Hunter.S.T.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hunter.S.T. @ Sep 10 2012, 01:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1974757"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->when u wanted to play all the rounds on a euro server<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We never <i><u>wanted</u></i> to play all the rounds on a euro server.
<!--quoteo(post=1974753:date=Sep 10 2012, 01:42 AM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Sep 10 2012, 01:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1974753"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was just a small beta tourny... and it's over, can't the teams just say GG and start preparing for the next event instead of trying to invalidate each other?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right of course, but it's very difficult to resist <a href="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png" target="_blank">this</a>.
I've taken no offense, simply offered you my opinion. Being defensive only validates my point.
I seriously enjoyed the games. Shame the servers were playing up on saturday games.
Congrats to Nexzil for the win, and well played Arc. Both teams played exceptionally well and helped show off the game to record new viewers.
Thanks for doing this! :-)
Then you run some comercials, talk about the rounds, try to conduct some interviews with the players of whatever. If the casters don't know what to do between rounds thats the casters problem, not the players. You don't have to just sit afk in the ready room waiting.
I know there were server issues, and that this might be a bit off topic, but this seems like it's becoming a trend in most games casted for players to "hurry up for the stream". I'll tell you one thing. I'll play when I'm damn ready to play. If the casters don't like it they can disconnect for all I care.
Player swapping is completely acceptable in many/most online gaming leagues.
ESPECIALLY considering the fact that the match was played ahead of schedule and their "first string" players were not all available, when those players did become available they were swapped in.
For those they claim Arc wanted to play on EU only, thats BS. I was the one asking for that too happen since Nxzl's server has a ban on Eh and couldnt be removed. When we have 1400 people in the stream and we are making people wait and wait and wait it looks really bad. I suggested doing the other rounds on EU server just to be done with it and continue the games, I do realize this is somewhat unfair due in part to the ping disadvantage, but again we were trying to keep things rolling for the stream.
Lastly to those that take issue with me questioning the subs, yes it was not a rule on ENSL.org, I was mearly stating that I dont think it was fair. I know you have enough players for two teams but that doesnt mean you get to swap everyone you want out each round, that is unfair in my opinion, one player per round is understandable.
The games are done, they are over, there is a winner. Congratz to Nxzl again and well played Arc, it was exciting to watch no matter the outcome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I clarified this elsewhere but I'll state it again here. Eh (or Ryyan) was not actually banned from the nxzl server during the match. We simply assumed he was still banned because he said he couldn't join the server. But we looked into it later and he was not actually on any ban list, anywhere, for the server, during the match, so there was no reason that the server should have kicked him. To reiterate, we don't know why he was having problems joining our server, but it wasn't because he was banned.
Lets also be fair. It was not "suggested" to us that we play the rest of the rounds on a EU server. We were <i>told</i> that we had three minutes to find another server or our only other option was to play on an EU server.
I understand that this tournament was great for NS publicity, and I'm all for exposing the game to as many people as possible. But the server issues were not something we could control, so it was unreasonable to change the tournament format at the last minute simply for the sake of viewership.
If what you wanted was a show match, you should have put the tournament match on hold, and Nexzil would have been happy to have a show match for NS2HD on whatever server was available. But this was a tournament, and to simply give us no option other than play at a disadvantage or forfeit was, quite frankly, ridiculous. You think our subs were unfair, but that was blatantly unreasonable, by an standard.
On the topic of subs though, I don't understand why you persist in calling it unfair when it was not stated anywhere that there was a rule against it. Further, we signed up well over seven people to our roster, so I'm not sure what you were expecting, but not only was there no rule against it, the system in place seemed to promote it.
And again, Natural Selection is a game with asymetrical teams. I can understand why a game like Counter Strike might have a rule saying no more than one sub between rounds (though I still don't understand why it would), but if any game had any reason to have two totally separate teams play under the same name, then Natural Selection is that game.
You may not have liked it, but again, publicly calling it unfair diminishes our hard, HARD, earned victory, and (in my opinion) is extremely rude.
But that's just my opinion. Thanks for the congrats, and I'm glad the tournament was successful.
GGs all, I don't see why this drama was necessary o_o
Pretty much, more drama = more people caring about results :)
Sounds good to me!
You're a pretty good admin, ######lear.
Just so everyone knows how ###### locklear is, I was actually banned from the nxzl server during a match between our two teams.
Is that your rat in your userpic? =O
because it's pretty freaking cute for a rat
and rats are like
pretty far up there on the scale of cute things in the world
You're a pretty good admin, ######lear.
Just so everyone knows how ###### locklear is, I was actually banned from the nxzl server during a match between our two teams.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Preaty sure I explained that you weren't actually banned. Donno what kind of client problems you were having, but you weren't on the server ban list. I believe it was actually cleared this morning and you still couldn't get in. Can't imagine what was holding it up on your end, but it is what it is. It was a gg regardless.
Why did the servers crash anyway? I want a no BS answer in 60 seconds...
*hides*
*hides*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol.
We don't know exactly, but I think Ryne managed to confirm that some third party was crashing the servers though we were never told any more than that.
We're not sure how, but the game code is exposed so all it would take is some decent programming knowledge and some familiarity with the NS2 server code to do it, I suspect. It doesn't seem like it was very complicated, as I think they actually took down a couple of the All-in servers before we switched to the 420 server.
Honestly, all the talk about moving the matches to an EU server was kinda moot, in all likely-hood they would have just kept continuing to crash whatever server we were playing on.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->LOCKED<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->