<!--quoteo(post=1975200:date=Sep 10 2012, 02:39 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Sep 10 2012, 02:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975200"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks guys. Here's the Lerk plan for 219:
#BALANCE De-nerfed Lerk. Spore damage up to 20/second (was 13), bite to 55 (was 50) and spike range up to 50 (was 30).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1975200:date=Sep 11 2012, 07:39 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Sep 11 2012, 07:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975200"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks guys. Here's the Lerk plan for 219:
#BALANCE De-nerfed Lerk. Spore damage up to 20/second (was 13), bite to 55 (was 50) and spike range up to 50 (was 30).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are some steps in the right direction but the inaccuracy of spikes at a distance needs to also be addressed if the additional range is going to be of any help.
They dont quit go to where they need to and the lerk still has only a very narrow window of usability.
Once w2/exo is up lerks lose any dominance they might have had (assuming comm has researched spores early), considering exos can be up by less than 6 min in we have at best 3 min to play lerk (takes ~2 min to get fast hive and ~60 sec to research spores and then evolve)
Please make the lerk a worthy 30 res investment again flayra...currently he is not worth the 30 res and dies too easily due to melee only to be a hypermutaiton stepping stone.
I enjoy lerking, sadly I just dont anymore as I die too easily for the 30 res I am investing.
I simply save and go fade..and I am a terrible fade...I mean terrible. But going fade or battle gorge is better way to invest res.
Consider trying to fly past 2-3 exo's to spore the 2 marines welding them, how often will you be killed/effective? Now remember its not just a case of doing it once but constantly for say 1-2 minutes whilst team mates attack.
With spores being tier 2 by the time its researched (after leap...nothing delays leap) we are expecting to see JP's and also Exo's appearing in the next 5 min.
So unless you want to have the lerk only playable for this short window changes need to be made to lerks arsenal and in particular spores.
One of the hardest things about killing exo's is the marines healing them, I have tried to lerk around exos (short lived and very painful) and can tell you that gas is hopeless considering the risk I am under.
Allowing spores to be ranged will give lerks a late game purpose, they will be able to gas around an exo to try to keep the marines away and allow the skulks/fades to damage unhindered by marines welding.
i would like to think of the lerk as a humanhunter, with his spores and poisonbite he mostly ignores armor and i think that makes him veasible in lategame. to realy achive this, the maindamage of the bite should be focused on the poison and as a special the lerk poison should either deny medpaks or at least half the healed amount. 55 bitedamage for that little flying lerk? makes no sense to me, bring that down to 20 and add 35damage to the poison over time. remember, the poison is the only thing that somewhat keeps the lerk usefull in lategame.
and yes that means it would take you ages to bring down an RT, but quess what, thats not your job, your job is it to get out there, to hunt, kill and support, tell a skulk to get that rt down. + lerkrushes are suddenly no problem, you would need some skulks to realy damage the marine base.
i actually dont know which damagetype spikes have, but i guess it would naturally be piercing(most of the damage would go to health)
So strange.... In NS1 I played as Lerk religiously. In NS2, which I've frequented since Alpha, I have nearly never lerked until this build (219?)
I like how the lerk works. I do think that spores (and spikes) need to be pre-equipped along with the bites, since 2 ugrades for a specialized unit seems unsuitable.
I imagine that on release the range and angular compensation(?) of bite on Skulk and Lerk will be enhanced.
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
now charlie, just make sure the lerk silence is fixed and we're set for the next build. currently theres no point picking silence for lerk because NOTHING is silenced par the bite and the flap (leaves 2 abilities still loud and annoying) :(!
<!--quoteo(post=1975200:date=Sep 11 2012, 06:39 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Sep 11 2012, 06:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975200"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks guys. Here's the Lerk plan for 219:
#BALANCE De-nerfed Lerk. Spore damage up to 20/second (was 13), bite to 55 (was 50) and spike range up to 50 (was 30).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would say this is a step in the right direction but it really isn't. Even if you consider these changes in isolation without consideration of the current state of lerk. These do not address the two fundamental problems with lerk. (don't really have a care for cropdusting gameplay). 1)flap energy. 2)spike spread.
I know there are many different opinions on this, but honestly cropdusting for damage isn't mutually engaging and fun gameplay. Increasing spore damage is simply going to grief pubs yet have almost no effect on the viability issue in competitive. We've been here and covered this ground before in the beta regarding spore damage =/. Atleast now i know what my next trollsploit video is going to be about.
For the increase in bite damage, why bother? rof is so slow the actual increase in dps is negligible. Taking off 1 extra armour every bite isn't exactly a de-nerf.
Regarding 50 range, goodluck hitting anything enough to be worth your time and energy that far away anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1975320:date=Sep 11 2012, 01:24 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Sep 11 2012, 01:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975320"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->TL;DR version: the problem is you need spores for your skulks early game, you need them to engage with your own weapons and to survive, and its also not getting researched on time if at all.. so i suggest starting with spores and spikes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ This!
And than you can make the bite stronger, so it is viable in late game and worth its res cost. By stronger I would think of a stronger effect against the health, not the armor. Maybe more dps for the poison effect.
<!--quoteo(post=1975320:date=Sep 11 2012, 02:24 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Sep 11 2012, 02:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975320"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exactly. See fana's proposal for lerk: "In order to comply with the support role, one of the t1 attacks should ideally be a support attack, but giving the lerk support attacks on t2 and t3 will at least fulfill this principle for parts of most rounds."
But what he failed to assess is the effectiveness of the lerk's ability to engage in fights is exponentially increased with said "support" weapons .. because they are more than damage , they obscure you. I think he - like many others - underestimated the effectiveness of spores and their potential strengths, (maybe he's still thinking of ns1 spores, idk?) and therefore the lerk is still the "fast moving, agile and vulnerable lifeform" <i>that is now highly visible and less protected.</i>
This vulnerable early lifeform does a lot more for it's team with the support role weapons (Spores) early on, not only assisting his team in engaging (when the majority of players are skulks and actually NEED spores the most) but also assisting the lerk itself in engaging with it's own weapons.
So either we keep adjusting this, buffing the health of the lerk to compensate for him becoming more of a tougher combat role and more visible, and not basing it's lifeform around support / obscuring abilities since typically, a commander sees far more viability in the other upgrades for other classes.
OR We can give the lerk spikes and spores to start with (T1) so it has it's melee and range, and then have X as it's T2.... there's a million ideas here, but an easy one is corrosive bite so the lerk's melee is rewarded by scaling with late game finally, destroying armor everywhere he goes (and cleaning up with spores and spikes) and finally contending with BB and Blink.
Oh yea.. and remove energy flapping as long as we have spikes are taking from the same energy pool as flapping...
EDIT: TL;DR version: the problem is you need spores for your skulks early game, you need them to engage with your own weapons and to survive, and its also not getting researched on time if at all.. so i suggest starting with spores and spikes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, the best way to keep the Lerk as a support class and keep him lerking and not trying to jump into soloing marines early on when he's likely to die and just waste res.
<!--quoteo(post=1975320:date=Sep 10 2012, 05:24 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Sep 10 2012, 05:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975320"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: TL;DR version: the problem is you need spores for your skulks early game, you need them to engage with your own weapons and to survive, and its also not getting researched on time if at all.. so i suggest starting with spores and spikes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this. Good thing your a playtester, you can badger the devs lol.
I don't see what increasing spike range to 50 is going to accomplish unless there is an accompanying increase in accuracy. Range doesn't mean much if you're only hitting with 5% of your shots.
An idea: what if when roosted spores become a ranged weapon, and spikes gain a big accuracy improvement?
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1975200:date=Sep 10 2012, 09:39 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Sep 10 2012, 09:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975200"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks guys. Here's the Lerk plan for 219:
#BALANCE De-nerfed Lerk. Spore damage up to 20/second (was 13), bite to 55 (was 50) and spike range up to 50 (was 30).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This helps, and I'm glad you're looking at the problem, but it doesn't solve anything. The combination of flap and spike energy cost makes it more or less useless with its current DPS.
Increasing bite damage by 5 is more or less pointless; its DPS is still far too low because of the slow ROF.
rhombusLerk QueenJoin Date: 2011-06-23Member: 106055Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1975810:date=Sep 11 2012, 01:45 PM:name=Typhon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Typhon @ Sep 11 2012, 01:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975810"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't see what increasing spike range to 50 is going to accomplish unless there is an accompanying increase in accuracy. Range doesn't mean much if you're only hitting with 5% of your shots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1975858:date=Sep 11 2012, 03:43 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Sep 11 2012, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This helps, and I'm glad you're looking at the problem, but it doesn't solve anything. The combination of flap and spike energy cost makes it more or less useless with its current DPS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1975901:date=Sep 11 2012, 10:07 PM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Sep 11 2012, 10:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->These values were changed too<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Great, look forward to trying it out in the next build.
<!--quoteo(post=1975901:date=Sep 11 2012, 10:07 PM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Sep 11 2012, 10:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->These values were changed too<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats good but I still think spores should not be a fly by attack and instead make it more like bile bomb (throw a ball ahead of the lerk which explodes into a big gas cloud)
<!--quoteo(post=1975901:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:07 AM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Sep 12 2012, 08:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->These values were changed too<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> oooh so both accuracy and range..nice. I recall it beng mentioned earlier that not all the changes for lerk made it into most recent patch..sounds like the ones coming will help make lerk fun mid game (before exo's).
Now if we can just get lerk gas ranged...we have a decent use for lerks mid to late game (Gas the marines trying to heal the exo). Sitting back with umbra is just not as satisfying...and umbra does not reduce the heal rate of welders.
I think the best bet is to go back to spore at level one for the lerk. Currently, with bite/spike at level one the lerk can't really fulfill it's roll as support if that's what's intended. Then either make spikes or bite researchable at hive 2 and balance around that.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1975901:date=Sep 11 2012, 10:07 PM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Sep 11 2012, 10:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->These values were changed too<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you sure? I just tried playing it and it seemed like I ran out of energy just as fast as in the previous builds.
rhombusLerk QueenJoin Date: 2011-06-23Member: 106055Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I find it hilarious that you doubt that it was changed. Go look in the lau next time.
The lerk is far from from perfect, but I'd rather do a small amount of changes and see how they go before changing it more. Also only 2-3 people are even able to give any sort of feedback for the lerk, so it's hard to work out values. You're welcome to do that yourself.
<!--quoteo(post=1976477:date=Sep 12 2012, 09:55 PM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Sep 12 2012, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976477"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find it hilarious that you doubt that it was changed. Go look in the lau next time.
The lerk is far from from perfect, but I'd rather do a small amount of changes and see how they go before changing it more. Also only 2-3 people are even able to give any sort of feedback for the lerk, so it's hard to work out values. You're welcome to do that yourself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only 2-3 people? Are the others not able to go Lerk or something?
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1976477:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:55 PM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Sep 12 2012, 08:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976477"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find it hilarious that you doubt that it was changed. Go look in the lau next time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://healium.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/obamam-lol-y-u-mad-tho.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Comments
#BALANCE De-nerfed Lerk. Spore damage up to 20/second (was 13), bite to 55 (was 50) and spike range up to 50 (was 30).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<3
Will spores and spikes be swapped back?
#BALANCE De-nerfed Lerk. Spore damage up to 20/second (was 13), bite to 55 (was 50) and spike range up to 50 (was 30).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are some steps in the right direction but the inaccuracy of spikes at a distance needs to also be addressed if the additional range is going to be of any help.
They dont quit go to where they need to and the lerk still has only a very narrow window of usability.
Once w2/exo is up lerks lose any dominance they might have had (assuming comm has researched spores early), considering exos can be up by less than 6 min in we have at best 3 min to play lerk (takes ~2 min to get fast hive and ~60 sec to research spores and then evolve)
Please make the lerk a worthy 30 res investment again flayra...currently he is not worth the 30 res and dies too easily due to melee only to be a hypermutaiton stepping stone.
I enjoy lerking, sadly I just dont anymore as I die too easily for the 30 res I am investing.
I simply save and go fade..and I am a terrible fade...I mean terrible. But going fade or battle gorge is better way to invest res.
Consider trying to fly past 2-3 exo's to spore the 2 marines welding them, how often will you be killed/effective? Now remember its not just a case of doing it once but constantly for say 1-2 minutes whilst team mates attack.
With spores being tier 2 by the time its researched (after leap...nothing delays leap) we are expecting to see JP's and also Exo's appearing in the next 5 min.
So unless you want to have the lerk only playable for this short window changes need to be made to lerks arsenal and in particular spores.
One of the hardest things about killing exo's is the marines healing them, I have tried to lerk around exos (short lived and very painful) and can tell you that gas is hopeless considering the risk I am under.
Allowing spores to be ranged will give lerks a late game purpose, they will be able to gas around an exo to try to keep the marines away and allow the skulks/fades to damage unhindered by marines welding.
to realy achive this, the maindamage of the bite should be focused on the poison and as a special the lerk poison should either deny medpaks or at least half the healed amount.
55 bitedamage for that little flying lerk? makes no sense to me, bring that down to 20 and add 35damage to the poison over time.
remember, the poison is the only thing that somewhat keeps the lerk usefull in lategame.
and yes that means it would take you ages to bring down an RT, but quess what, thats not your job, your job is it to get out there, to hunt, kill and support, tell a skulk to get that rt down.
+ lerkrushes are suddenly no problem, you would need some skulks to realy damage the marine base.
i actually dont know which damagetype spikes have, but i guess it would naturally be piercing(most of the damage would go to health)
Guess I'll wait for a NS1 mod.
In NS1 I played as Lerk religiously. In NS2, which I've frequented since Alpha, I have nearly never lerked until this build (219?)
I like how the lerk works.
I do think that spores (and spikes) need to be pre-equipped along with the bites, since 2 ugrades for a specialized unit seems unsuitable.
I imagine that on release the range and angular compensation(?) of bite on Skulk and Lerk will be enhanced.
:(!
#BALANCE De-nerfed Lerk. Spore damage up to 20/second (was 13), bite to 55 (was 50) and spike range up to 50 (was 30).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would say this is a step in the right direction but it really isn't. Even if you consider these changes in isolation without consideration of the current state of lerk. These do not address the two fundamental problems with lerk. (don't really have a care for cropdusting gameplay).
1)flap energy.
2)spike spread.
I know there are many different opinions on this, but honestly cropdusting for damage isn't mutually engaging and fun gameplay. Increasing spore damage is simply going to grief pubs yet have almost no effect on the viability issue in competitive. We've been here and covered this ground before in the beta regarding spore damage =/. Atleast now i know what my next trollsploit video is going to be about.
For the increase in bite damage, why bother? rof is so slow the actual increase in dps is negligible. Taking off 1 extra armour every bite isn't exactly a de-nerf.
Regarding 50 range, goodluck hitting anything enough to be worth your time and energy that far away anyway.
^ This!
And than you can make the bite stronger, so it is viable in late game and worth its res cost. By stronger I would think of a stronger effect against the health, not the armor. Maybe more dps for the poison effect.
See fana's proposal for lerk:
"In order to comply with the support role, one of the t1 attacks should ideally be a support attack, but giving the lerk support attacks on t2 and t3 will at least fulfill this principle for parts of most rounds."
But what he failed to assess is the effectiveness of the lerk's ability to engage in fights is exponentially increased with said "support" weapons .. because they are more than damage , they obscure you. I think he - like many others - underestimated the effectiveness of spores and their potential strengths, (maybe he's still thinking of ns1 spores, idk?) and therefore the lerk is still the "fast moving, agile and vulnerable lifeform" <i>that is now highly visible and less protected.</i>
This vulnerable early lifeform does a lot more for it's team with the support role weapons (Spores) early on, not only assisting his team in engaging (when the majority of players are skulks and actually NEED spores the most) but also assisting the lerk itself in engaging with it's own weapons.
So either we keep adjusting this, buffing the health of the lerk to compensate for him becoming more of a tougher combat role and more visible, and not basing it's lifeform around support / obscuring abilities since typically, a commander sees far more viability in the other upgrades for other classes.
OR
We can give the lerk spikes and spores to start with (T1) so it has it's melee and range, and then have X as it's T2.... there's a million ideas here, but an easy one is corrosive bite so the lerk's melee is rewarded by scaling with late game finally, destroying armor everywhere he goes (and cleaning up with spores and spikes) and finally contending with BB and Blink.
Oh yea.. and remove energy flapping as long as we have spikes are taking from the same energy pool as flapping...
EDIT: TL;DR version: the problem is you need spores for your skulks early game, you need them to engage with your own weapons and to survive, and its also not getting researched on time if at all.. so i suggest starting with spores and spikes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, the best way to keep the Lerk as a support class and keep him lerking and not trying to jump into soloing marines early on when he's likely to die and just waste res.
I agree with this. Good thing your a playtester, you can badger the devs lol.
An idea: what if when roosted spores become a ranged weapon, and spikes gain a big accuracy improvement?
#BALANCE De-nerfed Lerk. Spore damage up to 20/second (was 13), bite to 55 (was 50) and spike range up to 50 (was 30).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This helps, and I'm glad you're looking at the problem, but it doesn't solve anything. The combination of flap and spike energy cost makes it more or less useless with its current DPS.
Increasing bite damage by 5 is more or less pointless; its DPS is still far too low because of the slow ROF.
<!--quoteo(post=1975858:date=Sep 11 2012, 03:43 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Sep 11 2012, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This helps, and I'm glad you're looking at the problem, but it doesn't solve anything. The combination of flap and spike energy cost makes it more or less useless with its current DPS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These values were changed too
Great, look forward to trying it out in the next build.
Thats good but I still think spores should not be a fly by attack and instead make it more like bile bomb (throw a ball ahead of the lerk which explodes into a big gas cloud)
oooh so both accuracy and range..nice.
I recall it beng mentioned earlier that not all the changes for lerk made it into most recent patch..sounds like the ones coming will help make lerk fun mid game (before exo's).
Now if we can just get lerk gas ranged...we have a decent use for lerks mid to late game (Gas the marines trying to heal the exo).
Sitting back with umbra is just not as satisfying...and umbra does not reduce the heal rate of welders.
Are you sure? I just tried playing it and it seemed like I ran out of energy just as fast as in the previous builds.
Still a waste of 30 res from what I can tell.
The lerk is far from from perfect, but I'd rather do a small amount of changes and see how they go before changing it more. Also only 2-3 people are even able to give any sort of feedback for the lerk, so it's hard to work out values. You're welcome to do that yourself.
It should also kill a rifle marine with spikes in 1v1, assuming perfect aim on both ends (so spikes out-dps the rifle).
I don't know how it compare to actual numbers.
The lerk is far from from perfect, but I'd rather do a small amount of changes and see how they go before changing it more. Also only 2-3 people are even able to give any sort of feedback for the lerk, so it's hard to work out values. You're welcome to do that yourself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only 2-3 people? Are the others not able to go Lerk or something?
<img src="http://healium.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/obamam-lol-y-u-mad-tho.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
1) momentum-based ranged spores
2) spore-spike spores
3) distance:damage ratio based spores
4) finite range spores
5) standard ranged spores
...and tada(ish)!