Not sure where else to put it, so I'll put it here. I've gone back to playing after a month or so of not playing, and I come back to find two speedhackers. It's disheartening, and I'd like to know, what measures are being taken to prevent cheating in NS2?
Speedhackers, what do you mean? Really? I thought the server/&engine restricted player movements, I can never imagine someone coding the clients to decide the running speeds.
Are you sure it's not me because yesterday I spent some time having fun teasing skulks by dropping my rifle & pistol and sprinting with the axe, gaining a lot of extra speed.
Marines are surprisingly hard to bite when they are fast.. Wish there was awesome swords for marines that want to be manly. Its kinda embarrassing pulling out the tiny switch axe :D. I seen people use it with nanoshield :D
I don't see how people could speedhack given how the networking works. The server does all the movement calculations, players just send movement commands.
Did you mean someone who was glitching around rather than moving super fast?
Anyway the "what is being done to handle cheating" was covered a little while ago in a thread somewhere. Short answer - server admins will soon be able to enforce consistency on client lua files.
If someone was speed hacking it should be blatantly obvious that they are doing it. Speed hacking doesnt just mean someone sprints faster than all of the other marines. If anyone has ever seen a speedhacker you know. You basically cannot see them except when they stop to shoot.
I've seen an aimbot or two. this one guy was playing marine on a 20+ server had a redonkulous kill count.. something like 38/3 when the average was around 6 kills for the game
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited September 2012
Oh please, not another one of these threads. Yes, there will be anti-cheat measures. No, there is no way to fully prevent cheats. No, the anti-cheat measures won't be the most aggressive ones as those tend to ban innocent players.
Almost all of the guys you call hackers are actually just good players. Calling "obvious" aimbots is pretty much impossible without first person spec and even with that it is almost impossible to tell a cheater from a good player unless the aimbot is very poorly written. The only thing that can separate them is that good players just play good in general. They have proper communication, proper movement, proper positioning, proper decision-making, etc., while cheaters usually do not. It's not impossible to have godlike aim without using your brain much though, so even that is not a clear sign. Watching K/D ratios on the other hand is definitely one of the most ridiculous ways to "detect" cheaters.
<!--quoteo(post=1978643:date=Sep 16 2012, 09:55 PM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Sep 16 2012, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978643"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh please, not another one of these threads. Yes, there will be anti-cheat measures. No, there is no way to fully prevent cheats. No, the anti-cheat measures won't be the most aggressive ones as those tend to ban innocent players.
Almost all of the guys you call hackers are actually just good players. Calling "obvious" aimbots is pretty much impossible without first person spec and even with that it is almost impossible to tell a cheater from a good player unless the aimbot is very poorly written. The only thing that can separate them is that good players just play good in general. They have proper communication, proper movement, proper positioning, proper decision-making, etc., while cheaters usually do not. It's not impossible to have godlike aim without using your brain much though, so even that is not a clear sign. Watching K/D ratios on the other hand is definitely one of the most ridiculous ways to "detect" cheaters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Theres alot of newer players around who dont understand some people have been playing this game for a couple of years and are exceptionally good at the game. In a game with hitscan weapons an aimbot means someone will never miss at all, even the best shoots miss now and then.
been playing for ~850 hours now and i never saw any form of game-mechanic hacking (except possibly aimbot / wallhack at 1 or 2 occasions).
not saying you are wrong, but it seems likely. for this kind of thing you really need record some evidence to be convincing. here is a nice thread about movement speed mechanics: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121069" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=121069</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1978635:date=Sep 16 2012, 03:48 PM:name=3DKnight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (3DKnight @ Sep 16 2012, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978635"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've seen an aimbot or two. this one guy was playing marine on a 20+ server had a redonkulous kill count.. something like 38/3 when the average was around 6 kills for the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FYI, kill count means nothing. I've been well on my way to counts like that on both aliens and marines. Not saying you didn't see a cheater, but some people ARE that good.
It'd surprise me if people actually bothered cheating in a beta, that'd be quite sad even. That being said, given how NS2 has 0 anti-cheat protection and is incredibly moddable, it won't be long after release before mass cheating/hacking starts occurring.
rhombusLerk QueenJoin Date: 2011-06-23Member: 106055Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1978706:date=Sep 16 2012, 06:36 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Sep 16 2012, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It'd surprise me if people actually bothered cheating in a beta, that'd be quite sad even. That being said, given how NS2 has 0 anti-cheat protection and is incredibly moddable, it won't be long after release before mass cheating/hacking starts occurring.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
<!--quoteo(post=1978570:date=Sep 17 2012, 04:51 AM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ Sep 17 2012, 04:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978570"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've seen one speedhacker and one dude with an obvious aimbot. Hopefully the devs are planning on adding VAC or punkbuster or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> just as an fyi, vac and punkbuster never stopped hacking, just added an extra step for hackers, and made it so innocent people were caught out for (not) hacking at all. The 2 programs are buggy as hell, please, PLEASE, no vac or punkbuster.
<!--quoteo(post=1978680:date=Sep 16 2012, 10:55 PM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Sep 16 2012, 10:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978680"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->FYI, kill count means nothing. I've been well on my way to counts like that on both aliens and marines. Not saying you didn't see a cheater, but some people ARE that good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, and they are even better when new players join a game and just feed there kills which then causes the whole confusion with newer playing acuusing people of hacking. Then it's hard to explain to them that some people who have played this for years and/or play competitive alot can be that good.
<!--quoteo(post=1978771:date=Sep 17 2012, 01:00 AM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Sep 17 2012, 01:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978771"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->just as an fyi, vac and punkbuster never stopped hacking, just added an extra step for hackers, and made it so innocent people were caught out for (not) hacking at all. The 2 programs are buggy as hell, please, PLEASE, no vac or punkbuster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
VAC is amazing. Did you get banned from it or something?
<!--quoteo(post=1978771:date=Sep 16 2012, 07:00 PM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Sep 16 2012, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978771"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->just as an fyi, vac and punkbuster never stopped hacking, just added an extra step for hackers, and made it so innocent people were caught out for (not) hacking at all. The 2 programs are buggy as hell, please, PLEASE, no vac or punkbuster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No VAC will be the instadeath for this game. No protection = rampant, easily available cheats.
There has been one incident with VAC I believe that got clean people banned but that was more than 5 years ago. Punkbuster has also had a few issues, but they've been resolved pretty quickly. If by "innocent people" you mean the 14-year-olds whining daily on the Steam forums about how they never cheated and got banned, I have ZERO sympathy for them or you. Cheaters deserve what's coming to them sooner or later.
<!--quoteo(post=1978792:date=Sep 16 2012, 09:06 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 16 2012, 09:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978792"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->VAC is amazing. Did you get banned from it or something?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> VAC is too amazing. It stops cheaters who are too stupid to just hot-load their programs directly past (or around) it, but it also flags many non-illicit modifications (running server plugins as a client, almost anything to do with .dll files) and invalidates the entire libraries of people who never had any intention of cheating. This problem is compounded astronomically by Valve's insistence that VAC bans do not need to be reviewed or overturned.
I recall once in an NS1 pub an Onos came into our base and one of my team mates pulled out his knife, stabbed him 100 times in less than a second, and instagibbed him. I lol'd for days. It's the only time I can remember witnessing cheating in a FPS.
I've heard some horror stories about VAC, though. I think we can get away just fine with Lua consistency checks and good server admins.
Cant say i have ever heard anything bad about VAC, aside from one event where i believe it was an accident.. VAC bans are very delayed from when the actual cheating occured generally, which tends to confuse people.
Now punkbuster i have personally been banned by for no reason other than a glitch with the stupid automatic screenshot, where it took the screenshot of a half-drawn frame and banned on the spot.. That took over a month to get reversed and by then i had stopped caring about the game.
I've seen it ban people for things that arent actually hacks, various plugins and such. Though that happened more with early CSS times, I'm not a fan of VAC tbh. It doesnt stop those who really want to hack and can stop those who arent
Not having an ultimate anti-cheat solution doesn't mean we should have non. VAC may not be perfect but it reduces the amount of cheaters in games immensely (at least this is my experience in comparison to non-vac-servers of other games) and I never heard of a wrong ban.
I've also never heard of a wrongful ban by VAC, but what you all fail to understand is its deterrence factor. Global ban on your account = new account and new game purchase. Unless of course you want to wait 5+ months to play again.
<!--quoteo(post=1979057:date=Sep 17 2012, 06:48 AM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ Sep 17 2012, 06:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979057"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->AFAIR VAC is like an antivirus - it detects things matching signatures of known cheats and nothing else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1979057:date=Sep 17 2012, 09:48 AM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ Sep 17 2012, 09:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979057"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->AFAIR VAC is like an antivirus - it detects things matching signatures of known cheats and nothing else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You remember wrong. It detects the way external programs interact with your game's session.
If you want to get VAC banned without having anything resembling a cheat in your system, just load up a server plugin with your Source game.
<!--quoteo(post=1979087:date=Sep 17 2012, 12:08 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Sep 17 2012, 12:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You remember wrong. It detects the way external programs interact with your game's session.
If you want to get VAC banned without having anything resembling a cheat in your system, just load up a server plugin with your Source game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have a lot of experience in this and I assure you this cannot happen unless it's something on Valve's end. You can run whatever plugins you want in online mode, if you are running unauthorized plugins VAC will just refuse connection and you'll be kicked out of the server with an error message. VAC will only ban you for using illegal DLL injects or altering game files to allow something like this. Hacks are usually a combination of these and plugins. I've seen many programs that weren't hacks but were injections that extracted and inputed data that were not otherwise possible in source games, and nobody has been banned for using them even once. That's because VAC looks for specific lines of code, it's very unlikely that you will be banned for using new inject code, and VAC will NEVER ban you for using plugins and any type of material/model edits, unless UWE restricts them and you use a hack to get through.
Comments
Are you sure it's not me because yesterday I spent some time having fun teasing skulks by dropping my rifle & pistol and sprinting with the axe, gaining a lot of extra speed.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VEdImnChvBg"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VEdImnChvBg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Did you mean someone who was glitching around rather than moving super fast?
Anyway the "what is being done to handle cheating" was covered a little while ago in a thread somewhere. Short answer - server admins will soon be able to enforce consistency on client lua files.
Yes, there will be anti-cheat measures. No, there is no way to fully prevent cheats. No, the anti-cheat measures won't be the most aggressive ones as those tend to ban innocent players.
Almost all of the guys you call hackers are actually just good players. Calling "obvious" aimbots is pretty much impossible without first person spec and even with that it is almost impossible to tell a cheater from a good player unless the aimbot is very poorly written. The only thing that can separate them is that good players just play good in general. They have proper communication, proper movement, proper positioning, proper decision-making, etc., while cheaters usually do not. It's not impossible to have godlike aim without using your brain much though, so even that is not a clear sign. Watching K/D ratios on the other hand is definitely one of the most ridiculous ways to "detect" cheaters.
Yes, there will be anti-cheat measures. No, there is no way to fully prevent cheats. No, the anti-cheat measures won't be the most aggressive ones as those tend to ban innocent players.
Almost all of the guys you call hackers are actually just good players. Calling "obvious" aimbots is pretty much impossible without first person spec and even with that it is almost impossible to tell a cheater from a good player unless the aimbot is very poorly written. The only thing that can separate them is that good players just play good in general. They have proper communication, proper movement, proper positioning, proper decision-making, etc., while cheaters usually do not. It's not impossible to have godlike aim without using your brain much though, so even that is not a clear sign. Watching K/D ratios on the other hand is definitely one of the most ridiculous ways to "detect" cheaters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Theres alot of newer players around who dont understand some people have been playing this game for a couple of years and are exceptionally good at the game. In a game with hitscan weapons an aimbot means someone will never miss at all, even the best shoots miss now and then.
not saying you are wrong, but it seems likely. for this kind of thing you really need record some evidence to be convincing.
here is a nice thread about movement speed mechanics: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121069" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=121069</a>
FYI, kill count means nothing. I've been well on my way to counts like that on both aliens and marines. Not saying you didn't see a cheater, but some people ARE that good.
Devs are working on it at the moment.
just as an fyi, vac and punkbuster never stopped hacking, just added an extra step for hackers, and made it so innocent people were caught out for (not) hacking at all.
The 2 programs are buggy as hell, please, PLEASE, no vac or punkbuster.
Yeah, and they are even better when new players join a game and just feed there kills which then causes the whole confusion with newer playing acuusing people of hacking. Then it's hard to explain to them that some people who have played this for years and/or play competitive alot can be that good.
The 2 programs are buggy as hell, please, PLEASE, no vac or punkbuster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
VAC is amazing. Did you get banned from it or something?
The 2 programs are buggy as hell, please, PLEASE, no vac or punkbuster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No VAC will be the instadeath for this game. No protection = rampant, easily available cheats.
There has been one incident with VAC I believe that got clean people banned but that was more than 5 years ago. Punkbuster has also had a few issues, but they've been resolved pretty quickly. If by "innocent people" you mean the 14-year-olds whining daily on the Steam forums about how they never cheated and got banned, I have ZERO sympathy for them or you. Cheaters deserve what's coming to them sooner or later.
VAC is too amazing. It stops cheaters who are too stupid to just hot-load their programs directly past (or around) it, but it also flags many non-illicit modifications (running server plugins as a client, almost anything to do with .dll files) and invalidates the entire libraries of people who never had any intention of cheating. This problem is compounded astronomically by Valve's insistence that VAC bans do not need to be reviewed or overturned.
I've heard some horror stories about VAC, though. I think we can get away just fine with Lua consistency checks and good server admins.
Now punkbuster i have personally been banned by for no reason other than a glitch with the stupid automatic screenshot, where it took the screenshot of a half-drawn frame and banned on the spot.. That took over a month to get reversed and by then i had stopped caring about the game.
This
You remember wrong. It detects the way external programs interact with your game's session.
If you want to get VAC banned without having anything resembling a cheat in your system, just load up a server plugin with your Source game.
If you want to get VAC banned without having anything resembling a cheat in your system, just load up a server plugin with your Source game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have a lot of experience in this and I assure you this cannot happen unless it's something on Valve's end. You can run whatever plugins you want in online mode, if you are running unauthorized plugins VAC will just refuse connection and you'll be kicked out of the server with an error message. VAC will only ban you for using illegal DLL injects or altering game files to allow something like this. Hacks are usually a combination of these and plugins. I've seen many programs that weren't hacks but were injections that extracted and inputed data that were not otherwise possible in source games, and nobody has been banned for using them even once. That's because VAC looks for specific lines of code, it's very unlikely that you will be banned for using new inject code, and VAC will NEVER ban you for using plugins and any type of material/model edits, unless UWE restricts them and you use a hack to get through.