<!--quoteo(post=1984030:date=Sep 27 2012, 10:54 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Sep 27 2012, 10:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984030"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's also a wholly different type of game, and clearly has nothing to do with his conception of 'multiplayer game' as it applies to ns2
and so is league of legends, and barbie horse adventure 2, and beetle adventure racing
what is your point? oh right, you don't have one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He said he'd never played a game with movement as sluggish as the NS2 marine, I gave him an example of one.
<!--quoteo(post=1984078:date=Sep 28 2012, 03:44 PM:name=ChickenOfWar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChickenOfWar @ Sep 28 2012, 03:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984078"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He said he'd never played a game with movement as sluggish as the NS2 marine, I gave him an example of one.
Dont have to be an ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's also been made on a mil sim, with entirely different design goals and context. I can see it right now, day z esports 6 v 6. Whoever repairs a car first wins, or whoever's still left in the server after 10 days of trying to find the other team.
- Slower marine movement backwards forces you to think whether you want to start running away completely, or just take a few steps backwards while firing. Making him move backwards a little faster wouldn't be bad though. Or even at full speed if the skulk could actually go fast. I'm guessing everyone interested in checking the difference of NS2 and the proposed fast backpedaling should try NS2c. I should too...
- I would like to see the marine having the ability of jumping at least thrice before the slowdown on jumping kicks in. This would give him much more mobility already. Running away from skulks while reloading is not just about jumping in circles, but also ascending obstacles, like stacks of crates. That's pretty crippled at the moment with only one full jump. Veil's cargo, for example, has a few cool stacks of crates to climb that I'd like to try getting the advantage of.
- Unsure about modifications to sprint... I kind of like it as a mechanic because it brings the importance of sound into the game. Sprinting makes a huge noise while just walking doesn't make much sound at all. This allows you to sneak up on aliens sometimes. I think that's cool.
- Just as a mention, walljumping has given us one cool thing, which is the ability to jump to higher altitudes from walls (by aiming up). Much more maneuverability for the skulk than NS1 had in that aspect. Still wishing for better speed buildup and maintaining mechanics.
All I want is tools to match my creativity; is it too much to ask? That’s what different movement mechanics are for me. Against common believe person who only knew how to bunny hop wasn’t really good at movement in NS1. Skill in movement is to mix different movement mechanics together and mix them to teamwork and tactical approach of the game. A player who just bunny hops everywhere was an awful player in NS1.
In NS1, the game gave you variety of different movement mechanics and the skill was to use these tools in right situations. The tools NS2 gives you are just too limited for my creativity as both marine and alien (fade being only exception). This was kind of my basic move in NS1: I fool that incoming skulk to left with my fake strafe and then jump to right over that rail. You can’t do that in NS2 because of strafe acceleration and broken crouch jump/jump height.
I want to do <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=G5uqc00yrVI#t=288s" target="_blank">this</a> in NS2 as well.
AngeluszHarmonic entropistJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1984106:date=Sep 28 2012, 11:35 AM:name=Tane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tane @ Sep 28 2012, 11:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All I want is tools to match my creativity; is it too much to ask? That’s what different movement mechanics are for me. Against common believe person who only knew how to bunny hop wasn’t really good at movement in NS1. Skill in movement is to mix different movement mechanics together and mix them to teamwork and tactical approach of the game. A player who just bunny hops everywhere was an awful player in NS1.
In NS1, the game gave you variety of different movement mechanics and the skill was to use these tools in right situations. The tools NS2 gives you are just too limited for my creativity as both marine and alien (fade being only exception). This was kind of my basic move in NS1: I fool that incoming skulk to left with my fake strafe and then jump to right over that rail. You can’t do that in NS2 because of strafe acceleration and broken crouch jump/jump height.
I want to do <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=G5uqc00yrVI#t=288s" target="_blank">this</a> in NS2 as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Imo the best post in this thread. Sums the issue up without unnecessary negativity.
I'd like UWE to make the skulks running sound quieter. Maybe marine sounds too. I hear them through very thick walls. All that seems to count is proximity not the environment?
<!--quoteo(post=1984123:date=Sep 28 2012, 01:36 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Sep 28 2012, 01:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984123"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like UWE to make the skulks running sound quieter. Maybe marine sounds too. I hear them through very thick walls. All that seems to count is proximity not the environment?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Infestation has a big impact on skulk movement sounds. Also, there's an evolution called silence. You might want to give it a try.
If you walk as a marine it's quiet. Crouch-walking is practically completely silent.
<!--quoteo(post=1982658:date=Sep 24 2012, 05:22 PM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Sep 24 2012, 05:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1982658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- shotguns are ridiculous to balance. Either you hit your shot and it doesn't hit all the pellets so the experienced skulk kills you before you can fire again, or you get lucky or have good aim at really close range so that it kills him in one shot. Can't position yourself after or before the first shot because of movement. Sure the spread is already a big problem, but movement is what changes whether you can get another shot off to survive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1984106:date=Sep 28 2012, 05:35 AM:name=Tane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tane @ Sep 28 2012, 05:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All I want is tools to match my creativity; is it too much to ask? That’s what different movement mechanics are for me. Against common believe person who only knew how to bunny hop wasn’t really good at movement in NS1. Skill in movement is to mix different movement mechanics together and mix them to teamwork and tactical approach of the game. A player who just bunny hops everywhere was an awful player in NS1.
In NS1, the game gave you variety of different movement mechanics and the skill was to use these tools in right situations. The tools NS2 gives you are just too limited for my creativity as both marine and alien (fade being only exception). This was kind of my basic move in NS1: I fool that incoming skulk to left with my fake strafe and then jump to right over that rail. You can’t do that in NS2 because of strafe acceleration and broken crouch jump/jump height.
I want to do <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=G5uqc00yrVI#t=288s" target="_blank">this</a> in NS2 as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well said.
<!--quoteo(post=1984123:date=Sep 28 2012, 06:36 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Sep 28 2012, 06:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984123"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like UWE to make the skulks running sound quieter. Maybe marine sounds too. I hear them through very thick walls. All that seems to count is proximity not the environment?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hearing through walls is a major staple of fps games that is very important for positional awareness and has many tactical implications that would be lost if it weren't possible. That, and calculating geometric sound would be very expensive in terms of resources.
<!--quoteo(post=1984096:date=Sep 28 2012, 04:15 AM:name=Skie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skie @ Sep 28 2012, 04:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984096"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Slower marine movement backwards forces you to think whether you want to start running away completely, or just take a few steps backwards while firing. Making him move backwards a little faster wouldn't be bad though. Or even at full speed if the skulk could actually go fast. I'm guessing everyone interested in checking the difference of NS2 and the proposed fast backpedaling should try NS2c. I should too...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem with this is that using the S key at ANY time is NEVER a viable option. That 1 cm it gives you while a skulk gets on top of you does nothing for your survival. You could tap A or D to give you speed but 99% of the time you're better off unloading your magazine, then running away and zig zagging until you are reloaded again, or if you're not confident with your aim just hold a strafe key down and keep tracking the skulk. The other 1% of the time is the time where you are so screwed you are better off dropping all your weapons and sprinting, which will give you enough speed to outrun a skulk half way across the map. You can't balance sprint distance either, it's impossible. And even if you could, it takes away from gameplay and making things less FUN. There is no fun, strategy or tactical thinking in this and it's really stupid and boring to have to play like this. Like I said TF2 has 10% less speed moving backwards which isn't that noticable, but it makes the slightest difference so that it is perfectly balanced where you could turn around and not shoot back, instead running away and getting some more distance until your chaser catches you. If sprint was removed and marine base speed was a modest amount lower than the skulks while the skulks could bhop or walljump or something then even base marine speed moving backwards wouldn't be a problem. It's not like a marine could run away from you while you are right next to him anyway. And even if you could, they could always buff skulk bite range while keeping marine speed good, as that only matters in combat while marine speed matters outside of combat too.
neorussia I think your problem is unique to you, I just played a game today where one marine pretty much avoided 2-3 skulks and managed to kill two of em by just strafing around and jumping occasionally.
<!--quoteo(post=1984204:date=Sep 28 2012, 11:48 AM:name=ChickenOfWar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChickenOfWar @ Sep 28 2012, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->neorussia I think your problem is unique to you, I just played a game today where one marine pretty much avoided 2-3 skulks and managed to kill two of em by just strafing around and jumping occasionally.
No one is forcing you to press S.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, with the current skulk movement that's not so rare. But I don't think the point is if a marine manages to kill 2 skulks alone or doesn't lol.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Tane's video makes me want that head sway introduced when u take damage, again. Whats funny is, if it wasn't already in ns1, it'd be considered a "negative ability" in ns2..
Comments
and so is league of legends, and barbie horse adventure 2, and beetle adventure racing
what is your point? oh right, you don't have one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He said he'd never played a game with movement as sluggish as the NS2 marine, I gave him an example of one.
Dont have to be an ######.
Dont have to be an ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's also been made on a mil sim, with entirely different design goals and context. I can see it right now, day z esports 6 v 6. Whoever repairs a car first wins, or whoever's still left in the server after 10 days of trying to find the other team.
- Slower marine movement backwards forces you to think whether you want to start running away completely, or just take a few steps backwards while firing. Making him move backwards a little faster wouldn't be bad though. Or even at full speed if the skulk could actually go fast. I'm guessing everyone interested in checking the difference of NS2 and the proposed fast backpedaling should try NS2c. I should too...
- I would like to see the marine having the ability of jumping at least thrice before the slowdown on jumping kicks in. This would give him much more mobility already. Running away from skulks while reloading is not just about jumping in circles, but also ascending obstacles, like stacks of crates. That's pretty crippled at the moment with only one full jump. Veil's cargo, for example, has a few cool stacks of crates to climb that I'd like to try getting the advantage of.
- Unsure about modifications to sprint... I kind of like it as a mechanic because it brings the importance of sound into the game. Sprinting makes a huge noise while just walking doesn't make much sound at all. This allows you to sneak up on aliens sometimes. I think that's cool.
- Just as a mention, walljumping has given us one cool thing, which is the ability to jump to higher altitudes from walls (by aiming up). Much more maneuverability for the skulk than NS1 had in that aspect. Still wishing for better speed buildup and maintaining mechanics.
In NS1, the game gave you variety of different movement mechanics and the skill was to use these tools in right situations. The tools NS2 gives you are just too limited for my creativity as both marine and alien (fade being only exception). This was kind of my basic move in NS1: I fool that incoming skulk to left with my fake strafe and then jump to right over that rail. You can’t do that in NS2 because of strafe acceleration and broken crouch jump/jump height.
I want to do <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=G5uqc00yrVI#t=288s" target="_blank">this</a> in NS2 as well.
In NS1, the game gave you variety of different movement mechanics and the skill was to use these tools in right situations. The tools NS2 gives you are just too limited for my creativity as both marine and alien (fade being only exception). This was kind of my basic move in NS1: I fool that incoming skulk to left with my fake strafe and then jump to right over that rail. You can’t do that in NS2 because of strafe acceleration and broken crouch jump/jump height.
I want to do <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=G5uqc00yrVI#t=288s" target="_blank">this</a> in NS2 as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Imo the best post in this thread. Sums the issue up without unnecessary negativity.
Infestation has a big impact on skulk movement sounds. Also, there's an evolution called silence. You might want to give it a try.
If you walk as a marine it's quiet. Crouch-walking is practically completely silent.
QFTW, takes like 1.5 sec to load the next pellet
In NS1, the game gave you variety of different movement mechanics and the skill was to use these tools in right situations. The tools NS2 gives you are just too limited for my creativity as both marine and alien (fade being only exception). This was kind of my basic move in NS1: I fool that incoming skulk to left with my fake strafe and then jump to right over that rail. You can’t do that in NS2 because of strafe acceleration and broken crouch jump/jump height.
I want to do <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=G5uqc00yrVI#t=288s" target="_blank">this</a> in NS2 as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well said.
<!--quoteo(post=1984123:date=Sep 28 2012, 06:36 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Sep 28 2012, 06:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984123"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like UWE to make the skulks running sound quieter. Maybe marine sounds too. I hear them through very thick walls. All that seems to count is proximity not the environment?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hearing through walls is a major staple of fps games that is very important for positional awareness and has many tactical implications that would be lost if it weren't possible. That, and calculating geometric sound would be very expensive in terms of resources.
The problem with this is that using the S key at ANY time is NEVER a viable option. That 1 cm it gives you while a skulk gets on top of you does nothing for your survival. You could tap A or D to give you speed but 99% of the time you're better off unloading your magazine, then running away and zig zagging until you are reloaded again, or if you're not confident with your aim just hold a strafe key down and keep tracking the skulk. The other 1% of the time is the time where you are so screwed you are better off dropping all your weapons and sprinting, which will give you enough speed to outrun a skulk half way across the map. You can't balance sprint distance either, it's impossible. And even if you could, it takes away from gameplay and making things less FUN. There is no fun, strategy or tactical thinking in this and it's really stupid and boring to have to play like this. Like I said TF2 has 10% less speed moving backwards which isn't that noticable, but it makes the slightest difference so that it is perfectly balanced where you could turn around and not shoot back, instead running away and getting some more distance until your chaser catches you. If sprint was removed and marine base speed was a modest amount lower than the skulks while the skulks could bhop or walljump or something then even base marine speed moving backwards wouldn't be a problem. It's not like a marine could run away from you while you are right next to him anyway. And even if you could, they could always buff skulk bite range while keeping marine speed good, as that only matters in combat while marine speed matters outside of combat too.
No one is forcing you to press S.
No one is forcing you to press S.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, with the current skulk movement that's not so rare. But I don't think the point is if a marine manages to kill 2 skulks alone or doesn't lol.
Whats funny is, if it wasn't already in ns1, it'd be considered a "negative ability" in ns2..