Carapace is not good
Gertjan
Join Date: 2011-08-30 Member: 119151Members
Join Date: 2011-08-30 Member: 119151Members
Hi
Most of the people think carapace is one of the best upgrades there is. But in my opinion it is one of the most useless upgrades there is ( I'm talking about skulks )
I prefer to have Silence, camoflage or celerity as first upgrade. everything execpt carapace...
I mean carapace gives you 20 extra armor.. Its like 1 tiny bullet more. I prefer to go silence and sneak or go fast and dodge all bullets.
Can someone please explain me why everyone uses carapace as first upgrade. I really can not see why it is so good!
20 armor is nothing, marines get alot alot alot more then that. 1 tiny bullet more versus 2 or 3 bites more if marines have armor ...
Be aware: i'm talking about skulks!! For onos cara is very good ...
(off topic) And imo bite needs too much aim. Just saying that bite needs to be less accurate. Alien is skillbased, wich is good, but pffff somethimes its pissing me off.
Most of the people think carapace is one of the best upgrades there is. But in my opinion it is one of the most useless upgrades there is ( I'm talking about skulks )
I prefer to have Silence, camoflage or celerity as first upgrade. everything execpt carapace...
I mean carapace gives you 20 extra armor.. Its like 1 tiny bullet more. I prefer to go silence and sneak or go fast and dodge all bullets.
Can someone please explain me why everyone uses carapace as first upgrade. I really can not see why it is so good!
20 armor is nothing, marines get alot alot alot more then that. 1 tiny bullet more versus 2 or 3 bites more if marines have armor ...
Be aware: i'm talking about skulks!! For onos cara is very good ...
(off topic) And imo bite needs too much aim. Just saying that bite needs to be less accurate. Alien is skillbased, wich is good, but pffff somethimes its pissing me off.
Comments
(cant remember if its true, think i read it in the forums somewhere)
I do think for the skulk (not sure about other aliens) Carapace improved is a must.
**EDIT** Maybe scale Carapace per hive? That'd be awesome...at least for skulk, again, no idea for other aliens
I do think for the skulk (not sure about other aliens) Carapace improved is a must.
**EDIT** Maybe scale Carapace per hive? That'd be awesome...at least for skulk, again, no idea for other aliens<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was "Better" (broken) when it gave you 50 armor instead of 20.
Cara is great now, it allows skulks to survive shotgun blasts and take a few crucial hits more before dying. The difference is pretty substantial.
I don't have a clue either, but I can damn well tell it increases my survivability for quite a bit. Considering how easy it is to gun down skulks, you NEED that extra HP. If you need cele because you have trouble closing gaps, stop running towards marines thru straight corridors.
Lvl 0 LMG (10 damage) against a skulk (70 hp) without carapace (armour 10): 70/10 = 7 shots for health + 10/(10/2 ) (normal dmg vs armour) = 2 shots for armour. 9 hits = 1 dead skulk.
Lvl 0 LMG (10 damage) against a skulk (70 hp) with carapace (armour 30): 7 shots for health + 30/(10/2) = 6 shots for armour. 13 hits = 1 dead skulk.
This is a pretty big increase in survivability.
I would also like to point out that Carapace is pretty much the only upgrade that makes attacking defensive marine positions (phasegates, bases) significantly easier for all lifeforms. Sometimes you need that capability for head-on attack, and this is where many of the more situational upgrades fail.
Lvl 0 LMG against a skulk without carapace (armour 10): 70/10 = 7 shots for health and 10/(10/2) (normal dmg vs armour) = 2 shots for armour. 9 hits = 1 dead skulk.
Lvl 0 LMG against a skulk with carapace (armour 30): 7 shots for health and 30/(10/2) = 6 shots for armour. 13 hits = 1 dead skulk.
This is a pretty big increase in survivability.
I would also like to point out that Carapace is pretty much the only upgrade that makes attacking defensive marine positions (phasegates, bases) significantly easier for all lifeforms. Sometimes you need that capability for head-on attack, and this is where many of the more situational upgrades fail.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok that's 4 more hits... 4 hits = 1 mouse click or 0,5 second holding down the mouse. I just don't understand why people take carapace as first upgrade. It gives like 1 second more survivability.
Make is a descent upgrade so marines will need to have like 16 hits, 50 armor for skulks. Cause 20 armor is nothing
Make is a descent upgrade so marines will need to have like 16 hits, 50 armor for skulks. Cause 20 armor is nothing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok you can stop trolling now.
I don't think hes trolling sadly.
If so I will bite.
The thing about being a skulk is that you try to avoid bullets. If you just stand there and take it in the face then yes 4 bullets doesnt help. But if your moving all over the place or for example running around a marines feet, 4 more bullets can be quite a few. This is compounded by the fact that clip sizes are limited, so if a good marine typically uses half a clip killing a skulk then they can kill 2 vanilla skulks, but only 1 carapace skulk. Likewise if a meh marine kills a skulk with a whole clip then he can no longer do so which makes a huge difference.
Not to mention you can survive a direct mine hit and are much more resistant to shotgun marines.
As alien commander I always get leap first and then cara immediately and I am always a little baffled by leap -> celerity commanders (I would say they likely do it for the utility of the shifts).
yet another reason to put in focus
A single attack upgrade makes carapace worthless.
In conclusion, carapace is worthless.
Carapace is not worthless?
In conclusion, your conclusion is worthless.
Carapace is not worthless?
In conclusion, your conclusion is worthless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm yes that would be true if there was ever a game without shotguns or weapon upgrades during the early game, you know that tiny timing window when carapace actually isn't a garbage upgrade.
A single attack upgrade makes carapace worthless.
In conclusion, carapace is worthless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. Even if you don't think carapace is worthless, give it one weapon upgrade and it is. Look, point being, the marines have upgrades that stay with them all game, and only improve (save the arms lab going down). But the alien upgrades stay the same, so while the game goes on, the upgrade carapace gets weaker. No?
What? The slowdown was removed 3 builds ago.
Yea, it was 221 I believe? Or maybe 220? Definitely remember reading it in the changelog.
kinda worded that wrong. meant it was more effective at that time. didnt get 1 shot with it as much. skulks are still painfully slow
Shift is 100% required as first hive in pubs just for egg spawning. If you don't have somewhere else to spawn eggs then it's game over as soon as two marines walk into the hive and kill all your eggs. A shade hive first is suicide.
In NS1, aliens armor scaled with hives, upgrades scaled with no of chambers, everything scaled on the alien team, to create a balance. They have removed scaling as it is a hidden number, and have gone with an approach that the number of alien upgrades chosen by the lifeform is the only scaling factor. Now bearing in mind, Marines get damage and armor upgrades to scale, Aliens are left to counter those with increased speed, health, or hiding ability.
The trouble is, while additional speed/more energy is useful, increased health or faster health regen is useful, and the ability to hide from enemies or move around them quietly is useful, they are all 1 hive upgrades.
Should more hives make the benefits scale? Should number of chambers cause effects to scale? UWE decided no, they should not.
That is fine, it is their decision. Now they are forcing the lifeforms as the method of scaling. Level 2 marines? Buy a fade. Level 3 marines? Buy an Onos. That too makes sense. However, unlike marines, when aliens lose a lifeform, they may not have the res to get that balanced lifeform again, so go in as underpowered Skulks.
It is a compromise UWE have made. Whether it is good or bad can be debated until the cows come home, this is the method UWE have gone for. The question is how do you provide a sense of scale, without using hidden numbers, and that doesn't make 1 hive Fades or Onos overpowered? This is the problem, tying lifeforms to hives is a very effective solution, but UWE have been down that route, and don't want to go there again, even though they have now chained the JP's and Exo's to '2nd hive'.
UWE have decided that hidden numbers are bad, it is a good design decision, but one that really hurts a game like NS, which relied on the scalability provided by the hidden numbers in the first version.
Try and come up with solutions that work within that frame, no hidden numbers, keep skulks kind of relevant (a Skulk should not be able to easily take on a lvl2 or 3 marine, no matter how many hives), but not overpowered. If you try that, you will see the difficult position UWE are in from a balance perspective.
The problem lies with a shotties power-shells per clip, but that's from another topic <3