I'd take stats from the last builds before launch more seriously, as the games there had a more mature metagame. Now all I can find is comms not researching shotguns because "they suck", rushing exos with armor 1, and if we get Leap before the 15 minute mark it's a miracle.
<!--quoteo(post=2009233:date=Nov 4 2012, 05:59 AM:name=dethovu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dethovu @ Nov 4 2012, 05:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009233"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If up-to-date stats had anything to do with the context of my statement I would certainly grab a graph from within the past hour there. My only point was that if <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=123295&view=findpost&p=2008727" target="_blank">"marines [are] far and away superior to the aliens"</a> then the graph, or any graph from any game ever played in the history of NS2 since launch, would read 100% Marines 0% Aliens, or something extremely similar. I chose to take the graph that UWE posted 2 days ago specifically showing how even it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know, I wasn't saying you where wrong or right or talking about anything you had said. I was tring to help you by showing you newer infomation and you rant on at me? Thats what I get for tring to help I guess
2. If you say that taking the power out in their main isn't a big deal, you are incorrect. Having IPs out of commission is a huge, huge deal. You can literally win the game by killing all of the marines if they have no IPs. It is probably the complete end to the other team (if they don't have a second tech point) and it doesn't happen so infrequently to say it never happens. Hell, commanding last night, my team won by doing this in two different games.
3. Power nodes are a huge, huge deal throughout the game. Got a room with a phase gate, extractor, and armory? Eat the power node, all three things are no longer functional. No phasing, no ammo/healing, no resources. Then, you eat the phase, the extractor, and finally whatever else.
4. When you take out power, the room is pitch black for like ten seconds. This is plenty of time to pop on alien vision and get the best of the marines in the room.
If you for some reason don't think that power nodes are a big point of contention in this game, you aren't playing it right. You've gotta learn when it's important to take out the power and when it's important to ignore the power.
EDIT:
Saying that the aliens have to own basically all the res to tech up at a similar rate to marines is really, really wrong. If this was the case, aliens wouldn't win more than 50% of the time. All you need is a commander that knows how/when to spend res, just like on the marine team. Considering that the alien commander doesn't need half of his team on build duty, they have a small early game advantage. Marines have a small late game advantage with the higher end tech being generally cheaper than the aliens' higher life forms, but it isn't that significant because a good fade can eat like three average-skilled marines, a skilled lerk can totally ruin a base, and a skilled onos/gorge push will kill everything ever.
I swear the majority of the complaints/remarks on balance come from games where one team or the other is doing really poorly because they aren't good at the game, as opposed to the balance actually being bad. The group of people I play with regularly has a lot of skill, so our games are actually quite balanced and fair.
<!--quoteo(post=2008794:date=Nov 3 2012, 07:07 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 3 2012, 07:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2008794"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I didn't say 90 seconds to repair a node. Nice try though. It's 12 seconds with a welder.
The words were "DO THE ALIENS LOSE THEIR WHOLE BASE". We aren't talking about hitting some bull###### extraneous extension of the marine expansion. The only thing that is ever at the second tech point is a phase gate, an RT, a command chair, and I've seen maybe the odd IP or armory.
There is nothing vital there. There is never anything vital there. We aren't talking about knocking out the crappy little outpost they have there, we're talking about their main base, and if you're hitting that, you go for the chair to end the game, not the power node.
And for the record? If the aliens lose an upgrade structure they have to rebuild it <b>and then re-research the upgrade</b>. We're going to moan that the poor marines have life so rough with their W3/A3 upgrades that they can get on one tech point because you could knock out their power?
The node should be weaker, and marines should be punished for letting it get destroyed. The marines have their hand held in this game everywhere I look. They get cannons that can shoot through walls, teleportation across the map, they can rescue dropped guns for free upgrades, they don't have to expand to get most of their tech, they get motion sensors and sensor sweeps, they get free power nodes, they get the maps lit up like the light side of the ###### moon, they get free ammo, health, and armor repairs nearly instantly from an armory... god forbid they have a mechanic in this game that is difficult and requires them to pay attention to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look, the power node is the giant shiny Achilles heel of any marine base. If you're chewing on the CC and not the power node, you're already doing it wrong. Two or three skulks can take out a power node fairly quickly, and after that node is down the marines are blind with no lights outside of their flashlights for around ten seconds with free reign in a base where nothing works.
The correct destroy order in any marine base at any time is going to be the Observatory, the Power Node, the Command Chair. If there's a sentry battery, you'd probably want to kill that real fast before the command chair or if it's hammering you while hitting the Obs or Power.
Also, 'for the record', aliens have far, far, FAR fewer upgrades and structures that need to be built or researched. You can just build them. Wherever, whenever, so long as you have the correct hive and it's on infestation (which you can grow in any direction without help from any other member of your team at any time for almost no res cost what-so-ever.)
Not to mention you can build your second base first thing in any match, regardless if it's a good idea or not you can still do it.
Do you know what IS vital in a marines second base? The flipping command chair. If you can't understand even the most basic conditions required to win any given match, I'm sorry to say you're useless. What I can't understand is the fact you have so many posts here on the forums yet seem to be completely unaware of what is actually contained in this game. Also, if they have a second base with a command chair and you kill the CC in their main base you still don't win. You see, they have <i>another</i> command chair and IP. The only condition required to win <i>any</i> match of Natural Selection is to have the last command structure standing. It doesn't matter what else you have, you just need that one requirement to win. It's how you <i>get</i> there that matters.
<!--quoteo(post=2009044:date=Nov 3 2012, 09:57 PM:name=ellnic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ellnic @ Nov 3 2012, 09:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009044"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is an old graph you have got you're self there.
Try this website for more up to date infomation on the game <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">NS2 Stats</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How is that up to date? Your link only shows stats of servers that are running NSStats. It shows 2100 players but uw <a href="https://twitter.com/NS2" target="_blank">tweeted</a> there are over 7000.
<!--quoteo(post=2010415:date=Nov 5 2012, 12:35 AM:name=Ketamine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ketamine @ Nov 5 2012, 12:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2010415"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How is that up to date? Your link only shows stats of servers that are running NSStats. It shows 2100 players but uw <a href="https://twitter.com/NS2" target="_blank">tweeted</a> there are over 7000.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 28% is a pretty big sample size.
<!--quoteo(post=2009179:date=Nov 4 2012, 04:51 AM:name=ellnic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ellnic @ Nov 4 2012, 04:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009179"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, like I said, old graph. that was build 227.
Also like I said 'Try this website for more up to date infomation on the game <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">NS2 Stats</a>' - Has build 228 graph, Hmm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
whether it's up to date or not, it shows more or less the same result - alien won 52%.
i filtered the date on NS2 Stats to only show matches in the last 2 days. alien won 54%. the last 1 day, alien won 56%. starting to see a pattern here...
heh... but alas it's not enough, the whiners will undoubtedly put all of that down to veterans stacking the alien team etc.
Comments
I know, I wasn't saying you where wrong or right or talking about anything you had said. I was tring to help you by showing you newer infomation and you rant on at me? Thats what I get for tring to help I guess
2. If you say that taking the power out in their main isn't a big deal, you are incorrect. Having IPs out of commission is a huge, huge deal. You can literally win the game by killing all of the marines if they have no IPs. It is probably the complete end to the other team (if they don't have a second tech point) and it doesn't happen so infrequently to say it never happens. Hell, commanding last night, my team won by doing this in two different games.
3. Power nodes are a huge, huge deal throughout the game. Got a room with a phase gate, extractor, and armory? Eat the power node, all three things are no longer functional. No phasing, no ammo/healing, no resources. Then, you eat the phase, the extractor, and finally whatever else.
4. When you take out power, the room is pitch black for like ten seconds. This is plenty of time to pop on alien vision and get the best of the marines in the room.
If you for some reason don't think that power nodes are a big point of contention in this game, you aren't playing it right. You've gotta learn when it's important to take out the power and when it's important to ignore the power.
EDIT:
Saying that the aliens have to own basically all the res to tech up at a similar rate to marines is really, really wrong. If this was the case, aliens wouldn't win more than 50% of the time. All you need is a commander that knows how/when to spend res, just like on the marine team. Considering that the alien commander doesn't need half of his team on build duty, they have a small early game advantage. Marines have a small late game advantage with the higher end tech being generally cheaper than the aliens' higher life forms, but it isn't that significant because a good fade can eat like three average-skilled marines, a skilled lerk can totally ruin a base, and a skilled onos/gorge push will kill everything ever.
I swear the majority of the complaints/remarks on balance come from games where one team or the other is doing really poorly because they aren't good at the game, as opposed to the balance actually being bad. The group of people I play with regularly has a lot of skill, so our games are actually quite balanced and fair.
The words were "DO THE ALIENS LOSE THEIR WHOLE BASE". We aren't talking about hitting some bull###### extraneous extension of the marine expansion. The only thing that is ever at the second tech point is a phase gate, an RT, a command chair, and I've seen maybe the odd IP or armory.
There is nothing vital there. There is never anything vital there. We aren't talking about knocking out the crappy little outpost they have there, we're talking about their main base, and if you're hitting that, you go for the chair to end the game, not the power node.
And for the record? If the aliens lose an upgrade structure they have to rebuild it <b>and then re-research the upgrade</b>. We're going to moan that the poor marines have life so rough with their W3/A3 upgrades that they can get on one tech point because you could knock out their power?
The node should be weaker, and marines should be punished for letting it get destroyed. The marines have their hand held in this game everywhere I look. They get cannons that can shoot through walls, teleportation across the map, they can rescue dropped guns for free upgrades, they don't have to expand to get most of their tech, they get motion sensors and sensor sweeps, they get free power nodes, they get the maps lit up like the light side of the ###### moon, they get free ammo, health, and armor repairs nearly instantly from an armory... god forbid they have a mechanic in this game that is difficult and requires them to pay attention to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look, the power node is the giant shiny Achilles heel of any marine base. If you're chewing on the CC and not the power node, you're already doing it wrong. Two or three skulks can take out a power node fairly quickly, and after that node is down the marines are blind with no lights outside of their flashlights for around ten seconds with free reign in a base where nothing works.
The correct destroy order in any marine base at any time is going to be the Observatory, the Power Node, the Command Chair. If there's a sentry battery, you'd probably want to kill that real fast before the command chair or if it's hammering you while hitting the Obs or Power.
Also, 'for the record', aliens have far, far, FAR fewer upgrades and structures that need to be built or researched. You can just build them. Wherever, whenever, so long as you have the correct hive and it's on infestation (which you can grow in any direction without help from any other member of your team at any time for almost no res cost what-so-ever.)
Not to mention you can build your second base first thing in any match, regardless if it's a good idea or not you can still do it.
Do you know what IS vital in a marines second base? The flipping command chair. If you can't understand even the most basic conditions required to win any given match, I'm sorry to say you're useless. What I can't understand is the fact you have so many posts here on the forums yet seem to be completely unaware of what is actually contained in this game. Also, if they have a second base with a command chair and you kill the CC in their main base you still don't win. You see, they have <i>another</i> command chair and IP. The only condition required to win <i>any</i> match of Natural Selection is to have the last command structure standing. It doesn't matter what else you have, you just need that one requirement to win. It's how you <i>get</i> there that matters.
Try this website for more up to date infomation on the game <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">NS2 Stats</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is that up to date? Your link only shows stats of servers that are running NSStats. It shows 2100 players but uw <a href="https://twitter.com/NS2" target="_blank">tweeted</a> there are over 7000.
28% is a pretty big sample size.
Also like I said 'Try this website for more up to date infomation on the game <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">NS2 Stats</a>' - Has build 228 graph, Hmm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
whether it's up to date or not, it shows more or less the same result - alien won 52%.
i filtered the date on NS2 Stats to only show matches in the last 2 days. alien won 54%. the last 1 day, alien won 56%. starting to see a pattern here...
heh... but alas it's not enough, the whiners will undoubtedly put all of that down to veterans stacking the alien team etc.