It's definitely a problem that they're more fragile and also lacking Metabolize. One or the other might be enough, but it's very frustrating that the Fade only has the durability for a quick hit-and-run and then has to go all the way back to the hive to recover. They should either be able to stay in the fight longer, or not have such a punishing delay between fights. As a quick-and-dirty replacement for Metabolize, Fades could always just have innate renegeration for the short term, and then replcae that with the proper ability later.
I'm totally fine with Acid Rocket not coming back, seeing as the Lerk is now the ranged lifeform again. They definitely need a good base breaking skill though, right now Vortex isn't much help at all.
Without blink Fade can be challenging. But, if you have Shadow Step you can still escape. As a fade never counter 3 marines without blink it is just to risky. But, with Shadow Step you can fight 2 marines and maybe kill one while hurting the other and use Shadow Step to escape. Think of it like this Fade should attack a few times and escape really fast and come back again for another fight. Once you escape marines will forget you and not focus on you giving you another chance of attacking again. You don't have onos armor so don't expect to fight 3 marines. Once, you have blink let the party begin. I had a long streak as a fade recently and it was so much fun I would kill a marine and escape and come back and kill another marine. I wish I could have recorded it cause it was one great fade game. The way I survived so long was escaping right away after a kill. Don't stay in the room to long cause marines will just focus on you and its over.
UWE have not done a very competent job of handling the Aliens at all this time round, no new lifeforms, less abilities than in the Original and overall less options for the Aliens to experiment with.
No one ever uses Vortex, the fades HP is far too low to justify such an outrages price of 50 res and we have no Acid rocket.
The gorge is less fun to play as well, we need more options to make the Aliens more fun.
<!--quoteo(post=2017171:date=Nov 9 2012, 05:18 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 9 2012, 05:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017171"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's definitely a problem that they're more fragile and also lacking Metabolize. One or the other might be enough, but it's very frustrating that the Fade only has the durability for a quick hit-and-run and then has to go all the way back to the hive to recover. They should either be able to stay in the fight longer, or not have such a punishing delay between fights. As a quick-and-dirty replacement for Metabolize, Fades could always just have innate renegeration for the short term, and then replcae that with the proper ability later.
I'm totally fine with Acid Rocket not coming back, seeing as the Lerk is now the ranged lifeform again. They definitely need a good base breaking skill though, right now Vortex isn't much help at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'all the way back to hive to recover'.... isn't that defenders advantage which seems like an integral part of the game?
if fade could totally dominate while on the offensive in the marine mainbase like you suggest, i suspect that fade would be too powerful for the 'gimped relative to ns1 marine' marines.
i would be excited by some kind of useful ability for the fade - but i can't see anything which makes them stronger or more persistant in combat as being a 'balanced' solution.
Just to point out, the fade is lame for two or more reasons depending on your level of comfort with the life form.
1) Fade costs significantly more than it's counter on the marines team. (I.E. Shotgun costs 30 P.Res less, and is recyclable, AND it one shots your default life forms. Nice.)
2) Due to it's staggering cost, people play the fade 'safe' and utilize 'hit-and-run' tactics which seems to be it's role in NS2. Sadly, by the time a player is able to buy a fade it's usually too late to be effective since Marines have upgraded the Fade into oblivion. After the marines have phase gates to anywhere, what exactly does the fade do again? Guard res nodes? Yeah, that's a good expenditure of 50 P.Res.
3) The fade has a good chance of surviving all of it's encounters, which is almost a bad thing since the longer the fade lives, the more moot he becomes. Even if the aliens win, and it's directly attributed to a single fade player 'owning' the marines they are useless during the base siege portion. Now one of your best players does you no good until they die and get a life form that doesn't keel over at the sight of more than two marines.
4) I see the logic behind Vortex, but as a mechanic it's simply very lackluster. In a situation where a fade is facing two Marines, he can Vortex one and swipe kill the second. Now he's out of adrenaline, can't blink out of the area, and doesn't have the energy to escape or juke effectively. Therefore most fades just continue to blink in and out while attacking the two, never taking the time to use that third hive ability.
To be fair, that's partly because alien commanders know Vortex is useless and don't research it. I've never, ever had a fade mention to me 'hey, mind researching Vortex?' There's a reason for that.
5) Also, a fade is rendered <i>almost</i> completely pointless by a single armory heal station. Hit-and-run doesn't work if the Marines heal faster than you do, <i>and</i> have more armor.
6) Fades are terrible in narrow, closed spaces. It enhances the effectiveness of shotguns, and minimizes the effectiveness of blink. Now, guess what most of the maps are designed around? Narrow, tight corridors!
Fade Cost: 50 P.Res Benefits: Can live long enough to kill one or two marines at a time maybe, even though it takes forever. Kills structures at almost the exact same rate as the free Tier 1 skulk.
Do you see why fade might be an issue now? I would take two lerks over two fades <i>any time of the week</i>. Two lerks will flat out <i>drop</i> a marine in a ranged fire fight, and lerks can avoid direct combat and just silently zoom through a group of six marines and have a reasonable enough chance to <i>kill all six of them</i> if they are distracted by even a single skulk.
If you're really looking for value for P.Res spent, Gorge and Lerk win hands down after a second hive IMO.
Speaking of changes, I think the removal of feign death also contributed to the fade demise. Before, I was a little more confident blinking in and staying for swipes, knowing that if a lucky shot got me on the way out, I had a "second chance." Now, I have to make sure that I have at least 150 or more HP just in case stray pistol shots get me in the back on the way out.
Hopefully the invulnerability glitch is fixed and feign death makes a return, it's sorely missed, making the shade hive that much more undesirable IMO. Silence or camo on fade/lerk is pretty much useless right now, especially when the game winds down to marines camping their last 1/2 chairs.
<!--quoteo(post=2017340:date=Nov 9 2012, 02:05 PM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 9 2012, 02:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017340"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->'all the way back to hive to recover'.... isn't that defenders advantage which seems like an integral part of the game?
if fade could totally dominate while on the offensive in the marine mainbase like you suggest, i suspect that fade would be too powerful for the 'gimped relative to ns1 marine' marines.
i would be excited by some kind of useful ability for the fade - but i can't see anything which makes them stronger or more persistant in combat as being a 'balanced' solution.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Fade isn't supposed to be purely defensive any more than any of the other lifeforms are. Quite the opposite, the NS1 Fade basically lived in the midfield, he never had to go back to the hive. That was part of his core identity. If the marines are "gimped" as you say then the balance specifics can be tweaked, but it's very important for any hit-and-run class to not have a huge trek to recover after every engagement. I don't mind if he doesn't get metabolize, but if that's the case then he needs to be a stronger frontline fighter.
I've been forcing myself to play fade for a few days, and I've finally found a style that works well for me in the current set-up.
I take Regen/Adrenaline/Silence, and I basically fight away from the frontline. I hit expanding marines, ninja marines, defend harvesters & hives, and avoid hotspots unless there is no choice.
This set-up really works, and in a few games I've helped force marines into just 2 bases and that's it, then I focus on stopping them capping more RTs. At this point, with marines concentrated into 2 bases, is where many of the complaints about the fade occur. Too much firepower from too many marines drop the fade very fast, especially with GLs in play.
But anywhere else, this set-up rocks. My best play was defending double in Drilling from 4 marines. The huge room was a big advantage. I waited for the marines to start building, blinked in, killed 1, retreated. Waited for build sound, swiped a marine to half health, blinked out to retreat when the 2 shotguns almost killed me. Regen got me to full HP quickly, and I blinked in, took out a shotgunner, blinked out. Regen full HP, finish off the rest.
Not saying the fade is perfect, but it's viable with the right build and the right approach. If a fade gets forced into direct, front-line combat though, a lot of its advantage is horribly neutered. Keep the marines off-balance with hit and run, and the fade shines.
<!--quoteo(post=2017391:date=Nov 9 2012, 07:58 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 9 2012, 07:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017391"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Fade isn't supposed to be purely defensive any more than any of the other lifeforms are. Quite the opposite, the NS1 Fade basically lived in the midfield, he never had to go back to the hive. That was part of his core identity. If the marines are "gimped" as you say then the balance specifics can be tweaked, but it's very important for any hit-and-run class to not have a huge trek to recover after every engagement. I don't mind if he doesn't get metabolize, but if that's the case then he needs to be a stronger frontline fighter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
metabolize would be cool, if it didn't break game balance. i sort of like the idea of a fade retreating to a corner to heal up, then being low on energy and vulnerable for a few seconds.
but that would have to go hand in hand with a change to regeneration mechanics, otherwise it would be even more useless for fade than camo for a gorge.
It's slower at taking down buildings, as it hits with less punch than a skulk. (around 10 sec of difference in taking down IP or armslab !!!).
Jetpackers are harder to kill than with a lerk or even an onos.
Whenever I face a fade, I'm so happy to engage it, most of the time... I say MOST OF THE TIME (4/5) they go down to my shotty, and if it's a jetpack too and they go in alone, there is barely any place for them to survive. They are huge moving targets, very easy to hold your crosshair on them, yet they offer almost nothing in return.
The amount of damage they do to a3 marines is... silly, It's like being poked.
I do think there should be a change to increase damage towards light infantry (marines) by good 20-35%, maybe introduce backstab ability? 50% more damage from behind or smth?
They should rip them apart... however, exo should deal with them easily, as they do right now.
In other words:
I find skulks way better for harassing, taking down expansions and lowering their RT count. Lerk is in my opinion better assassin, due to very high mobility, good ranged attack and spores that choke rines to death and disrupt their vision. It's even easier to survive as a lerk against late marines, than with a fade, that costs 20 more pres !
<!--quoteo(post=2016863:date=Nov 9 2012, 06:54 AM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 9 2012, 06:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016863"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->also, if you can't kill a lone shotgun+jetpacker as a fade then you're doing it wrong (against an equally skilled marine), you should be winning those - although if you make a single mistake then he will likely punish you - DO NOT MAKE A MISTAKE this is not a game for newbies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd just like to point out that your reasoning for why we think fade is underpowered for its cost is because we're not perfect. Fun fact- none of us are The Terminator. You will make a mistake. That's what makes games interesting. If I could just go ahead and be perfect and not make mistakes, I'd play skulk and win just as easily.
<!--quoteo(post=2017353:date=Nov 9 2012, 01:18 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 9 2012, 01:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017353"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hopefully the invulnerability glitch is fixed and feign death makes a return, it's sorely missed, making the shade hive that much more undesirable IMO. Silence or camo on fade/lerk is pretty much useless right now, especially when the game winds down to marines camping their last 1/2 chairs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Silence is pretty necessary on the fade right now, for me at least. I've been getting an effect where the blink background sound of whispering voices/wind plays for about 30 seconds after I am done blinking, and at such a staggering volume that I can't hear my own attack swipes or my commander on voice. Without silence, there's no way I am going to bother with fade.
I think if they changed shadow step and blink a bit, it would make Fade a much more effective unit.
<u>Shadow step:</u> <ul><li> Reset duration for a second shadow step in mid-air. Reason: Makes shadow step much more effective, because right now it only extends the duration by only a fraction of a second. It would make Fades not feel useless without blink, yet not make it replace it either.</li><li> Possible to press Shift first to shadow step. Reason: If you're going to do a second shadow step in another direction, you have to release Shift and then press the respective movement key before you can press Shift again. If this is to raise the skill ceiling, then it's a horrible mechanic to do so.</li></ul>
<u>Blink:</u> <ul><li> Reduced damage taken while blinking. Reason: It's great that it makes you stealth-ish while blinking, however, with the narrow choke points most of the places, it's still easy to get a good first hit on a Fade before it can enter into the room. Since you're rendered to attack while blinking, it should also reduce the damage taken, thus make it easier for Fades to initiate.</li><li> Enable double-jumping mid-air after blinking; additionally, add the vertical speed boost on top of your current velocity. Reason: More freedom in maneuvering, letting Fades able to do more tricksy moves, and truly let them be the assassins they're meant to be.</li></ul>
<!--quoteo(post=2018180:date=Nov 10 2012, 12:04 PM:name=minos_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (minos_ @ Nov 10 2012, 12:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018180"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd just like to point out that your reasoning for why we think fade is underpowered for its cost is because we're not perfect. Fun fact- none of us are The Terminator. You will make a mistake. That's what makes games interesting. If I could just go ahead and be perfect and not make mistakes, I'd play skulk and win just as easily.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, but in the context i was using i was talking about reckless/needless/careless mistake... not a 'human error'.
therefore fade just requires you to focus while playing, as opposed to marine where you can herp derp around 90% of the time with AR and not care whether you die or not.
You guys can suggest all these half-assed fixes all you want but none of them will fix the fact that he gets 2 shotted by a shotgun and no Metabolize means you're spending more time healing at the Hive than attacking.
Increase Fade base health to 300/150. Make Blink a Hive 1 ability. Make Metabolize a Hive 2 ability.
Let me put it like this. It's ###### when the Gorge has the same amount of health as the Fade.
<!--quoteo(post=2018521:date=Nov 10 2012, 01:46 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Nov 10 2012, 01:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018521"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Movement isn't the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it is and it isn't. the ns2 fade movement is more jerky, but slower. this means that in order to evade fire, you need to be using your various movement abilities constantly, otherwise you're easy to track and die much faster due to lower health, however this means you have less energy to swipe and get out. in ns1 and ns2c, you can maintain your forward speed through bhopping, meaning you save your adrenaline for metabolize and oh-###### blinking. this means you have a bigger margin for error when you engage.
The good -Not overly expensive -Mobile -Can always solo a marine (unless you are really overly aggressive) -Quick responder to resources / hives under attack
The bad -Not tanky enough to do anything other than blink in > swipe > blink away in groups of 3 or more marines (even that can be a death sentence) -Only really effective early-mid game -Lacking firepower in the late game to deal any significant damage
Suggestions -Bring back Focus ability from NS 1 so the fade has meaningful damage in the late game -Modify Vortex (just not seeing this ability really being of any use personally) such that it gives the fade a temporary armor bonus on himself, or cast on teammates (similar to nano shield for marines)
I don't think the Fade is horrible, and I was really annoyed in a game last night when the commander would not research blink because he thought fades sucked lol... I think the Fade is a bit too weak and limited in his usefulness but I don't think he is that far off from being in a good place.
<!--quoteo(post=2016483:date=Nov 9 2012, 12:59 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Nov 9 2012, 12:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016483"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Two equally skilled players, one with a fade the other a level 2 shotgun, is quite an even matchup, though I would say it would typically go to the marine. One shot while the fade blinks in, one shot while he tries to hit you. GG fade. Its not worth the 50 res.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because you are always looking in the correct direction due to motion tracking, oh wait...
<!--quoteo(post=2017323:date=Nov 9 2012, 02:54 PM:name=Simini)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Simini @ Nov 9 2012, 02:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UWE have not done a very competent job of handling the Aliens at all this time round, no new lifeforms, less abilities than in the Original and overall less options for the Aliens to experiment with.
No one ever uses Vortex, the fades HP is far too low to justify such an outrages price of 50 res and we have no Acid rocket.
The gorge is less fun to play as well, we need more options to make the Aliens more fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah aliens got gimped, even the upgrades are pretty much the same (only in most cases crappier)
Comments
I'm totally fine with Acid Rocket not coming back, seeing as the Lerk is now the ranged lifeform again. They definitely need a good base breaking skill though, right now Vortex isn't much help at all.
No one ever uses Vortex, the fades HP is far too low to justify such an outrages price of 50 res and we have no Acid rocket.
The gorge is less fun to play as well, we need more options to make the Aliens more fun.
I'm totally fine with Acid Rocket not coming back, seeing as the Lerk is now the ranged lifeform again. They definitely need a good base breaking skill though, right now Vortex isn't much help at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'all the way back to hive to recover'.... isn't that defenders advantage which seems like an integral part of the game?
if fade could totally dominate while on the offensive in the marine mainbase like you suggest, i suspect that fade would be too powerful for the 'gimped relative to ns1 marine' marines.
i would be excited by some kind of useful ability for the fade - but i can't see anything which makes them stronger or more persistant in combat as being a 'balanced' solution.
1) Fade costs significantly more than it's counter on the marines team. (I.E. Shotgun costs 30 P.Res less, and is recyclable, AND it one shots your default life forms. Nice.)
2) Due to it's staggering cost, people play the fade 'safe' and utilize 'hit-and-run' tactics which seems to be it's role in NS2. Sadly, by the time a player is able to buy a fade it's usually too late to be effective since Marines have upgraded the Fade into oblivion. After the marines have phase gates to anywhere, what exactly does the fade do again? Guard res nodes? Yeah, that's a good expenditure of 50 P.Res.
3) The fade has a good chance of surviving all of it's encounters, which is almost a bad thing since the longer the fade lives, the more moot he becomes. Even if the aliens win, and it's directly attributed to a single fade player 'owning' the marines they are useless during the base siege portion. Now one of your best players does you no good until they die and get a life form that doesn't keel over at the sight of more than two marines.
4) I see the logic behind Vortex, but as a mechanic it's simply very lackluster. In a situation where a fade is facing two Marines, he can Vortex one and swipe kill the second. Now he's out of adrenaline, can't blink out of the area, and doesn't have the energy to escape or juke effectively. Therefore most fades just continue to blink in and out while attacking the two, never taking the time to use that third hive ability.
To be fair, that's partly because alien commanders know Vortex is useless and don't research it. I've never, ever had a fade mention to me 'hey, mind researching Vortex?' There's a reason for that.
5) Also, a fade is rendered <i>almost</i> completely pointless by a single armory heal station. Hit-and-run doesn't work if the Marines heal faster than you do, <i>and</i> have more armor.
6) Fades are terrible in narrow, closed spaces. It enhances the effectiveness of shotguns, and minimizes the effectiveness of blink. Now, guess what most of the maps are designed around? Narrow, tight corridors!
Lerk Cost: 30 P.Res
Benefits: Ranged Spikes, Poison Clouds, 50% bullet damage absorption, stupid fast mobility.
Fade Cost: 50 P.Res
Benefits: Can live long enough to kill one or two marines at a time maybe, even though it takes forever. Kills structures at almost the exact same rate as the free Tier 1 skulk.
Do you see why fade might be an issue now? I would take two lerks over two fades <i>any time of the week</i>. Two lerks will flat out <i>drop</i> a marine in a ranged fire fight, and lerks can avoid direct combat and just silently zoom through a group of six marines and have a reasonable enough chance to <i>kill all six of them</i> if they are distracted by even a single skulk.
If you're really looking for value for P.Res spent, Gorge and Lerk win hands down after a second hive IMO.
Hopefully the invulnerability glitch is fixed and feign death makes a return, it's sorely missed, making the shade hive that much more undesirable IMO. Silence or camo on fade/lerk is pretty much useless right now, especially when the game winds down to marines camping their last 1/2 chairs.
if fade could totally dominate while on the offensive in the marine mainbase like you suggest, i suspect that fade would be too powerful for the 'gimped relative to ns1 marine' marines.
i would be excited by some kind of useful ability for the fade - but i can't see anything which makes them stronger or more persistant in combat as being a 'balanced' solution.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Fade isn't supposed to be purely defensive any more than any of the other lifeforms are. Quite the opposite, the NS1 Fade basically lived in the midfield, he never had to go back to the hive. That was part of his core identity. If the marines are "gimped" as you say then the balance specifics can be tweaked, but it's very important for any hit-and-run class to not have a huge trek to recover after every engagement. I don't mind if he doesn't get metabolize, but if that's the case then he needs to be a stronger frontline fighter.
I take Regen/Adrenaline/Silence, and I basically fight away from the frontline. I hit expanding marines, ninja marines, defend harvesters & hives, and avoid hotspots unless there is no choice.
This set-up really works, and in a few games I've helped force marines into just 2 bases and that's it, then I focus on stopping them capping more RTs. At this point, with marines concentrated into 2 bases, is where many of the complaints about the fade occur. Too much firepower from too many marines drop the fade very fast, especially with GLs in play.
But anywhere else, this set-up rocks. My best play was defending double in Drilling from 4 marines. The huge room was a big advantage. I waited for the marines to start building, blinked in, killed 1, retreated. Waited for build sound, swiped a marine to half health, blinked out to retreat when the 2 shotguns almost killed me. Regen got me to full HP quickly, and I blinked in, took out a shotgunner, blinked out. Regen full HP, finish off the rest.
Not saying the fade is perfect, but it's viable with the right build and the right approach. If a fade gets forced into direct, front-line combat though, a lot of its advantage is horribly neutered. Keep the marines off-balance with hit and run, and the fade shines.
metabolize would be cool, if it didn't break game balance. i sort of like the idea of a fade retreating to a corner to heal up, then being low on energy and vulnerable for a few seconds.
but that would have to go hand in hand with a change to regeneration mechanics, otherwise it would be even more useless for fade than camo for a gorge.
It's slower at taking down buildings, as it hits with less punch than a skulk. (around 10 sec of difference in taking down IP or armslab !!!).
Jetpackers are harder to kill than with a lerk or even an onos.
Whenever I face a fade, I'm so happy to engage it, most of the time... I say MOST OF THE TIME (4/5) they go down to my shotty, and if it's a jetpack too and they go in alone, there is barely any place for them to survive. They are huge moving targets, very easy to hold your crosshair on them, yet they offer almost nothing in return.
The amount of damage they do to a3 marines is... silly, It's like being poked.
I do think there should be a change to increase damage towards light infantry (marines) by good 20-35%, maybe introduce backstab ability? 50% more damage from behind or smth?
They should rip them apart... however, exo should deal with them easily, as they do right now.
In other words:
I find skulks way better for harassing, taking down expansions and lowering their RT count.
Lerk is in my opinion better assassin, due to very high mobility, good ranged attack and spores that choke rines to death and disrupt their vision. It's even easier to survive as a lerk against late marines, than with a fade, that costs 20 more pres !
Fade however... I don't know where to put him...
I'd just like to point out that your reasoning for why we think fade is underpowered for its cost is because we're not perfect. Fun fact- none of us are The Terminator. You will make a mistake. That's what makes games interesting. If I could just go ahead and be perfect and not make mistakes, I'd play skulk and win just as easily.
<!--quoteo(post=2017353:date=Nov 9 2012, 01:18 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 9 2012, 01:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017353"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hopefully the invulnerability glitch is fixed and feign death makes a return, it's sorely missed, making the shade hive that much more undesirable IMO. Silence or camo on fade/lerk is pretty much useless right now, especially when the game winds down to marines camping their last 1/2 chairs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Silence is pretty necessary on the fade right now, for me at least. I've been getting an effect where the blink background sound of whispering voices/wind plays for about 30 seconds after I am done blinking, and at such a staggering volume that I can't hear my own attack swipes or my commander on voice. Without silence, there's no way I am going to bother with fade.
<u>Shadow step:</u>
<ul><li> Reset duration for a second shadow step in mid-air.
Reason: Makes shadow step much more effective, because right now it only extends the duration by only a fraction of a second. It would make Fades not feel useless without blink, yet not make it replace it either.</li><li> Possible to press Shift first to shadow step.
Reason: If you're going to do a second shadow step in another direction, you have to release Shift and then press the respective movement key before you can press Shift again. If this is to raise the skill ceiling, then it's a horrible mechanic to do so.</li></ul>
<u>Blink:</u>
<ul><li> Reduced damage taken while blinking.
Reason: It's great that it makes you stealth-ish while blinking, however, with the narrow choke points most of the places, it's still easy to get a good first hit on a Fade before it can enter into the room. Since you're rendered to attack while blinking, it should also reduce the damage taken, thus make it easier for Fades to initiate.</li><li> Enable double-jumping mid-air after blinking; additionally, add the vertical speed boost on top of your current velocity.
Reason: More freedom in maneuvering, letting Fades able to do more tricksy moves, and truly let them be the assassins they're meant to be.</li></ul>
yes, but in the context i was using i was talking about reckless/needless/careless mistake... not a 'human error'.
therefore fade just requires you to focus while playing, as opposed to marine where you can herp derp around 90% of the time with AR and not care whether you die or not.
Increase Fade base health to 300/150.
Make Blink a Hive 1 ability.
Make Metabolize a Hive 2 ability.
Let me put it like this. It's ###### when the Gorge has the same amount of health as the Fade.
Movement isn't the problem.
it is and it isn't. the ns2 fade movement is more jerky, but slower. this means that in order to evade fire, you need to be using your various movement abilities constantly, otherwise you're easy to track and die much faster due to lower health, however this means you have less energy to swipe and get out. in ns1 and ns2c, you can maintain your forward speed through bhopping, meaning you save your adrenaline for metabolize and oh-###### blinking. this means you have a bigger margin for error when you engage.
The good
-Not overly expensive
-Mobile
-Can always solo a marine (unless you are really overly aggressive)
-Quick responder to resources / hives under attack
The bad
-Not tanky enough to do anything other than blink in > swipe > blink away in groups of 3 or more marines (even that can be a death sentence)
-Only really effective early-mid game
-Lacking firepower in the late game to deal any significant damage
Suggestions
-Bring back Focus ability from NS 1 so the fade has meaningful damage in the late game
-Modify Vortex (just not seeing this ability really being of any use personally) such that it gives the fade a temporary armor bonus on himself, or cast on teammates (similar to nano shield for marines)
I don't think the Fade is horrible, and I was really annoyed in a game last night when the commander would not research blink because he thought fades sucked lol... I think the Fade is a bit too weak and limited in his usefulness but I don't think he is that far off from being in a good place.
Because you are always looking in the correct direction due to motion tracking, oh wait...
<!--quoteo(post=2017323:date=Nov 9 2012, 02:54 PM:name=Simini)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Simini @ Nov 9 2012, 02:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UWE have not done a very competent job of handling the Aliens at all this time round, no new lifeforms, less abilities than in the Original and overall less options for the Aliens to experiment with.
No one ever uses Vortex, the fades HP is far too low to justify such an outrages price of 50 res and we have no Acid rocket.
The gorge is less fun to play as well, we need more options to make the Aliens more fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah aliens got gimped, even the upgrades are pretty much the same (only in most cases crappier)