Looks like 1.04 is going to be another good patch. I didn't see one thing in that list of changes I didn't like. Now the scanner sweep button will actually be used by commanders! I see the seige alteration as a partial advantage for marines now as well. Siege was always meant to be used as a game finisher I believe, when a team was meant to have a lot of resources, and now that the scanner sweep has been upped in price it all falls into place. The commander can now target specific things with the scanner sweep, so if he doesn't want to waste his time plowing through their defense chambers and offense chambers he can just take out the hive first thing. I think the shotgun price is just about right now. It won't be used too early on, but it will be in use before it was so that marines will have a more successful and diverse infantry platform, and this might just change the game way more than anything else that was changed. Making defense chambers unable to heal themselves will also make defense crazed gorges think twice before they leave that 3 OC/1 DC combo out by itself.
So many good things at once. Thanks devs for all the attention you are giving your community.
Me see the patch......Me play the patch.......Me gets a hammer whacks my pc Yelling WHy <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->?!?!?!? WHY?!?!?!!? WHY THE Hell best half life MOD IS GETTING so screwed.......Gotta stop playing and wait till dev team sees that this patch is a nuke sent to marine players....... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Not everyone plays on a 24 -34 players server you know? Most people play on 14 players max...
I have yet to play 1.04 yet. I won't comment on a few things I'd like to until I play, except
Infantry portals, I can't believe that price was upped. I mean now at the start of the game, boom, there goes 44 RP's.
I also disagree with phase gate modifications, but I will wait to play to see how that is.. along with many other things.
And the fact that motion tracking works on all servers shouldn't be seen as a "bonus" now. It was always supposed to work, so it should be seen as a disadvantage before.
i think the changes are cute, we still see the same strategy on every server and this might fix it no?
inf portal cost increases? aliens have to live with 1 spawn a Looong time and you complain about spending 44 on 2 portals? make 1 then. and dont go off dying carelessly
im exited to see what will happen now
now all i can ask for is a better lerk flying thingy
i'm a little lost... will one d chambers heal another d chamber? or will d chambers not heal each other at all? i'm assuming that d chambers will heal each other, but not themselves.
Some people will allways complain about a new patch, thats the way life goes.
Myself I think its a good patch, its much up to the members of each team now <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
I like the idea of using siege to penetrate into the hive instead of actually destroying the hive. Makes a lot more sense. I think it'll slow down alot of marine rushes which imo are pointless. You start a game win in 3 minutes and then you start over. This isn't Counter Strike.
Haven't played yet, but I read the list. It looked pretty good. Then I got to the siege view thing. At first I thought "Ugh!", but this makes a kinda cool strategic element that's completely new. This sounds like it'll be decently balanced with the acid rocket hopefully no longer mowing down hordes of light-armored marines like a hot pizza slicer thru whipped cream. (You heard me!) Well, off to try it out.
<!--QuoteBegin--Home Star Runner+Dec 24 2002, 08:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Home Star Runner @ Dec 24 2002, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have yet to play 1.04 yet. I won't comment on a few things I'd like to until I play, except
Infantry portals, I can't believe that price was upped. I mean now at the start of the game, boom, there goes 44 RP's.
I also disagree with phase gate modifications, but I will wait to play to see how that is.. along with many other things.
And the fact that motion tracking works on all servers shouldn't be seen as a "bonus" now. It was always supposed to work, so it should be seen as a disadvantage before.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe ip's were upped in price for the same reason phases were: to cut down on the hive rushing. Its too easy to setup in a hive right now and move on.
And about the phase, lets face it, it was broken. Its had like 12498989385 hp and took almost 5 minutes to take down. Now couple that with marines coming out of it every 5 seconds and you have your self an almost impossible structure to take down for a skulk.
I actually remember playing against this guy on a 1.04 beta server the other day. He was complaining left and right about the changes, I think the map was eclipse.
Their com wasn't that good, he was too slow grabbing a second hive, while we managed to defend and build it up fast (it's easy to remember the good games, because the "right" things happen: few gors, organized team, etc.).
Lastly, their com didn't defend most of the resources he grabbed ... I knocked out two or three myself and the Marines were pretty strapped for cash the entire game.
After playing 1.04 servers for the last four days, I have to say I'm impressed with the patch. The game's doesn't become one-sided at certain points anymore (ie. when marines get heavy armor or aliens get fades), it's more of a constant tug of war that depends a lot on the amount of resources your team has.
The seige requiring a spotter now is a big and very nice change. It means the commander or marines actually have to pay attention to blast you instead of putting up a siege and just letting it do its own thing.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
edited December 2002
lets see.. i played.. 4 games on Homelan.. as a alien, we won 3, the forth we only loss because we had a 12 year old gorge that did very stupid things...
I dont know, i think its always easy to win as a alien, when i have 2 normal good gorges in my team + me (*g*) we win..
about the new siege cannons. I played one game as a marine with the 1.04. The siege thing is good, but whats about incrasing the tunring speed of the cannon? As a marine when i saw a OC, normaly i died befor the siege shoot.. fix this and then ist ok
the rest... i think its ok.... when marines play good and have HMG at the same time than aliens have the Fade. Because, also with the less big splash damage, fades are very strong, too strong for a standard marine. But thats ok, because a marine with HMG is too strong for a single skulk...
all in all, i think its a good patch, i have too play some more games, but i think marines are not strong enough, but that was so since the last patch.... we will see, we will see
Can someone please clarify here? I take it those talking about <i>games</i> played with the 1.04 patch have access to the beta, and everyone else is just talking about the proposed balance changes? Or have some people started hallucinating? Although I haven't played the newly released/unreleased version as yet, the changes seem sensible enough... particulary the hive spawning at full health, and to some extent the phase gate changes. IP cost increase I'm not so sure about- might prevent marine rushing (respawn rate advantage) to some extent but'll make it even harder to start a second base following a successful alien siege. But we'll have to see how everything works in practise...
Played a few 1.04 Nancy rounds and I must say that the increased costs didn't slow down the Phase Rush at all...basically what happened was the Marines would rush up and build a Phase, kill off a bunch of Aliens (smaller game here), then rush up and build another while we were respawning and recycle the first. And just "stack" their way closer and closer to our Hive 'til it was just outside. Then Siege it.
And for some reason the Aliens didn't seem able to hurt the Comm Chair until like 3 of them were attacking it (anecdotal; I'm told this -- I didn't participate) and then suddenly the health dropped off sharply.
But basically...once the Aliens were able to successfully hold onto more than one Hive; we won without much effort.
Had a Comm quit in disgust because after his rush failed: "We lost." Gave him a bit of a lashing over how you should have more than one "method" to win or you're a pretty talentless one-trick pony.
<!--QuoteBegin--Frizzled+Dec 24 2002, 09:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frizzled @ Dec 24 2002, 09:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lastly, their com didn't defend most of the resources he grabbed ... I knocked out two or three myself and the Marines were pretty strapped for cash the entire game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Carryover issue from 1.03. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=17387' target='_blank'>Marines can't hold resources</a>.
Yes, that's it Geldon, grasp any little straw you can...
People seem to disagree a lot...how come half of us think the aliens are overpowered and the other half feels the exact opposite???
In a big server, marines get a big bonus...in small servers, aliens rule. Because of this, balancing ALL the servers is impossible. Add to that the fact that pub games are a whole lot different from clan games.
How about hard coding all pub servers to a set amount of players and balance the game after that? And balancing "casual mode" different from "tourny mode"?
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--Asraniel+Dec 24 2002, 05:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Asraniel @ Dec 24 2002, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The siege thing is good, but whats about incrasing the tunring speed of the cannon? As a marine when i saw a OC, normaly i died befor the siege shoot.. fix this and then ist ok <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, it may be tricky if you can't see the siege so you can time when you should look out. But I think that even if you don't, just dodging back-n-forth once a sec or two should be enough to ensure that you don't miss triggering the siege - no need to stay in continous LOS. Once it starts to fire, you should be able to time it without much trouble.
For a commander, he better check the heading of the siege before doing the scan.
Well, all I can say is that pubs are so different to CWs, it is unbelievable.
In CWs the marines are amazing, as it is a war, so ANY tactics are valid. Early game HMG rushes/ siege rush(PGs too) are the only thing that goes on as marines, as it is imperitive that a mid game does NOT occur.
This happens due the the high general level of skill in CWs. I admit aliens are good in pubs, but that is ONLY due to the pub players being crap(NO OFFENCE HERE) and not working together properly(cross cover, check corners/celings, etc as the game intended(marines)!
Understand that on pubs, I usually get 20+ kills as a skulk in the early game, whereas in a CW, i get about 2-5 if I am lucky!
The marines nerfage is very welcome by me, as it will make it *slightly* fairer, but I still think that the infamous HMG rush should be totally nerfed, as it is a mid/late game weapon, having it 3 mins into the game is not the point! Just make the advanced armory require an arms labs tbh <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> It makes sense <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Basiclly I do like the changes in 1.04, and even if I dont like some, I LOVE NS and will adapt to play it as it is, no questions asked!(as long as it isnt a total game ruiner!)
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--Naughty Brembo+Dec 24 2002, 08:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Naughty Brembo @ Dec 24 2002, 08:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In a big server, marines get a big bonus...in small servers, aliens rule. Because of this, balancing ALL the servers is impossible.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, spawn rate and resource model must be adjusted to allow for a wider range of server-sizes. As it is, anything smaller than 6v6 or larger than 9v9 is just too loopsided. Can still be fun, but .. marines in a 16v16 server only need 9 resource minutes to build a basic base and then research MT/HMG/HA/AU1/WU1- ie, if they hold three resources (starting + 2), it only takes THREE minutes. If you add in the time needed to build the res towers and the time needed for the research, HA's appear at the five minute point - long before the aliens have even started to build a hive.
Meanwhile, in a 4v4 the marine needs 30 resource minutes to do the same. Assuming the marines in such a small team could hold two resources without turreting them up (lol). Realistically, they would need about 60 resource minutes in order to pay for TF+4xturrets to hold two expansion nodes. Which means they could expect to get the HA at about the 20 minute point in the game. Not that they can expect to survive that long, but..
So, basically, in a small game the marines can't ever expect to get HA before fades, while in a large (16v16) game the HA comes before second resource towers are building for the aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin--freeo+Dec 24 2002, 02:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (freeo @ Dec 24 2002, 02:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i'm glad they didn't reduce fade health/armor. but acid rockets seriously needed a nerf.
from reading the changes, it seems the marines have been nerfed yet again... coming from a server with regulars who are pros at alien, this'll only make the marines lose a lot more. i won't say any more though, as i'll have to play a few games of 1.04 before i make a decision on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> YES!!!! Exactly my point in my first post!
BTW: this wasn't meant to be for players that haven't played it yet. it was more geared towards the people with reasons, evidence and what not to support a side to the arguement. Not that what any of you guys have said is untrue, but plz. Play, then comment.
As I stated earlier, I believe that Marines are going to get owned. I have seen 1 out of almost 13 rounds won by the Marines. 1-12, that is balance i do believe.
The problem is...every change that was made (except the Siege) was made to nerf Marine rushes. And what this does is hurt everyone who DOESN'T rush...which are the games the Marines are ALREADY losing. And now will lose WORSE.
Ok, I've now played some 1.04. I gotta say, it ain't shabby at all. The last two games I played the marines won both times (I was commander on the second one, which makes it all the more cooler cuz I don't com much yet we still won.) and we didn't even use siege. 'Twas pretty balanced.
i think the changes sound good but i realize they hurt the marines a lot and marines were already losing most of the time. so i think while nerfing all these things for the marines, certain other things for the marines need to be boosted like perhaps the grenade launcher. maybe grenades should explode sooner and do more damage for example.
<!--QuoteBegin--ViPr+Dec 25 2002, 03:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Dec 25 2002, 03:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i think the changes sound good but i realize they hurt the marines a lot and marines were already losing most of the time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's what it looks like on paper (or computer screen, as the case may be), but in the five or six 1.04 games I've played over a couple different servers, the marines have been dominating. Go figure.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
I realy dont know... after playing 3 more games (2 won aliens one marines) i have to say, its ok, when the commander is a good commander marines win. Thats all. Great patch, thx
Comments
So many good things at once. Thanks devs for all the attention you are giving your community.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not everyone plays on a 24 -34 players server you know? Most people play on 14 players max...
Infantry portals, I can't believe that price was upped. I mean now at the start of the game, boom, there goes 44 RP's.
I also disagree with phase gate modifications, but I will wait to play to see how that is.. along with many other things.
And the fact that motion tracking works on all servers shouldn't be seen as a "bonus" now. It was always supposed to work, so it should be seen as a disadvantage before.
inf portal cost increases? aliens have to live with 1 spawn a Looong time and you complain about spending 44 on 2 portals? make 1 then. and dont go off dying carelessly
im exited to see what will happen now
now all i can ask for is a better lerk flying thingy
I love to play both sides and I LOVE IT!
My pointless advice - STFU AND PLAY!
cuz i am!
Myself I think its a good patch, its much up to the members of each team now <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, off to try it out.
Infantry portals, I can't believe that price was upped. I mean now at the start of the game, boom, there goes 44 RP's.
I also disagree with phase gate modifications, but I will wait to play to see how that is.. along with many other things.
And the fact that motion tracking works on all servers shouldn't be seen as a "bonus" now. It was always supposed to work, so it should be seen as a disadvantage before.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe ip's were upped in price for the same reason phases were: to cut down on the hive rushing. Its too easy to setup in a hive right now and move on.
And about the phase, lets face it, it was broken. Its had like 12498989385 hp and took almost 5 minutes to take down. Now couple that with marines coming out of it every 5 seconds and you have your self an almost impossible structure to take down for a skulk.
I actually remember playing against this guy on a 1.04 beta server the other day. He was complaining left and right about the changes, I think the map was eclipse.
Their com wasn't that good, he was too slow grabbing a second hive, while we managed to defend and build it up fast (it's easy to remember the good games, because the "right" things happen: few gors, organized team, etc.).
Lastly, their com didn't defend most of the resources he grabbed ... I knocked out two or three myself and the Marines were pretty strapped for cash the entire game.
After playing 1.04 servers for the last four days, I have to say I'm impressed with the patch. The game's doesn't become one-sided at certain points anymore (ie. when marines get heavy armor or aliens get fades), it's more of a constant tug of war that depends a lot on the amount of resources your team has.
_f
I dont know, i think its always easy to win as a alien, when i have 2 normal good gorges in my team + me (*g*) we win..
about the new siege cannons. I played one game as a marine with the 1.04. The siege thing is good, but whats about incrasing the tunring speed of the cannon? As a marine when i saw a OC, normaly i died befor the siege shoot.. fix this and then ist ok
the rest... i think its ok.... when marines play good and have HMG at the same time than aliens have the Fade. Because, also with the less big splash damage, fades are very strong, too strong for a standard marine. But thats ok, because a marine with HMG is too strong for a single skulk...
all in all, i think its a good patch, i have too play some more games, but i think marines are not strong enough, but that was so since the last patch.... we will see, we will see
Although I haven't played the newly released/unreleased version as yet, the changes seem sensible enough... particulary the hive spawning at full health, and to some extent the phase gate changes. IP cost increase I'm not so sure about- might prevent marine rushing (respawn rate advantage) to some extent but'll make it even harder to start a second base following a successful alien siege. But we'll have to see how everything works in practise...
And for some reason the Aliens didn't seem able to hurt the Comm Chair until like 3 of them were attacking it (anecdotal; I'm told this -- I didn't participate) and then suddenly the health dropped off sharply.
But basically...once the Aliens were able to successfully hold onto more than one Hive; we won without much effort.
Had a Comm quit in disgust because after his rush failed: "We lost." Gave him a bit of a lashing over how you should have more than one "method" to win or you're a pretty talentless one-trick pony.
Carryover issue from 1.03. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=17387' target='_blank'>Marines can't hold resources</a>.
Yes, that's it Geldon, grasp any little straw you can...
In a big server, marines get a big bonus...in small servers, aliens rule. Because of this, balancing ALL the servers is impossible. Add to that the fact that pub games are a whole lot different from clan games.
How about hard coding all pub servers to a set amount of players and balance the game after that? And balancing "casual mode" different from "tourny mode"?
Then again, what the hell do I know?
/NB
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, it may be tricky if you can't see the siege so you can time when you should look out. But I think that even if you don't, just dodging back-n-forth once a sec or two should be enough to ensure that you don't miss triggering the siege - no need to stay in continous LOS. Once it starts to fire, you should be able to time it without much trouble.
For a commander, he better check the heading of the siege before doing the scan.
Anyone knows how quickly a siege turns?
In CWs the marines are amazing, as it is a war, so ANY tactics are valid. Early game HMG rushes/ siege rush(PGs too) are the only thing that goes on as marines, as it is imperitive that a mid game does NOT occur.
This happens due the the high general level of skill in CWs. I admit aliens are good in pubs, but that is ONLY due to the pub players being crap(NO OFFENCE HERE) and not working together properly(cross cover, check corners/celings, etc as the game intended(marines)!
Understand that on pubs, I usually get 20+ kills as a skulk in the early game, whereas in a CW, i get about 2-5 if I am lucky!
The marines nerfage is very welcome by me, as it will make it *slightly* fairer, but I still think that the infamous HMG rush should be totally nerfed, as it is a mid/late game weapon, having it 3 mins into the game is not the point! Just make the advanced armory require an arms labs tbh <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> It makes sense <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Basiclly I do like the changes in 1.04, and even if I dont like some, I LOVE NS and will adapt to play it as it is, no questions asked!(as long as it isnt a total game ruiner!)
In a big server, marines get a big bonus...in small servers, aliens rule. Because of this, balancing ALL the servers is impossible.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, spawn rate and resource model must be adjusted to allow for a wider range of server-sizes. As it is, anything smaller than 6v6 or larger than 9v9 is just too loopsided. Can still be fun, but .. marines in a 16v16 server only need 9 resource minutes to build a basic base and then research MT/HMG/HA/AU1/WU1- ie, if they hold three resources (starting + 2), it only takes THREE minutes. If you add in the time needed to build the res towers and the time needed for the research, HA's appear at the five minute point - long before the aliens have even started to build a hive.
Meanwhile, in a 4v4 the marine needs 30 resource minutes to do the same. Assuming the marines in such a small team could hold two resources without turreting them up (lol). Realistically, they would need about 60 resource minutes in order to pay for TF+4xturrets to hold two expansion nodes. Which means they could expect to get the HA at about the 20 minute point in the game. Not that they can expect to survive that long, but..
So, basically, in a small game the marines can't ever expect to get HA before fades, while in a large (16v16) game the HA comes before second resource towers are building for the aliens.
from reading the changes, it seems the marines have been nerfed yet again... coming from a server with regulars who are pros at alien, this'll only make the marines lose a lot more. i won't say any more though, as i'll have to play a few games of 1.04 before i make a decision on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YES!!!! Exactly my point in my first post!
BTW: this wasn't meant to be for players that haven't played it yet. it was more geared towards the people with reasons, evidence and what not to support a side to the arguement. Not that what any of you guys have said is untrue, but plz. Play, then comment.
As I stated earlier, I believe that Marines are going to get owned. I have seen 1 out of almost 13 rounds won by the Marines. 1-12, that is balance i do believe.
The last two games I played the marines won both times (I was commander on the second one, which makes it all the more cooler cuz I don't com much yet we still won.) and we didn't even use siege. 'Twas pretty balanced.
I give 1.04 thumbs up.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what it looks like on paper (or computer screen, as the case may be), but in the five or six 1.04 games I've played over a couple different servers, the marines have been dominating. Go figure.