Hydras can have a huge impact. Seems legit!
buhehe
Join Date: 2012-05-15 Member: 152140Members
Join Date: 2012-05-15 Member: 152140Members
As I was loading a map, I read this tip: "Support classes are invaluable! A Gorge with hydras or a marine with welder can have a huge impact!"
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<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->A Gorge with hydras...huge impact<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->A Gorge with hydras can have a huge impact??<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I don't know if that's sarcasm, but hydras are a waste of resources, unless one goes dedicated gorge.
Even then, simply strafing sideways will make hydras miss most of their shots. At 2m range.
Oh, and the light emitted by them is just a big sign screaming: "Here I am, your practice target!".
Sure, they can be "slightly annoying", and a "distraction", but certainly not a "huge impact".
As a gorge lover I don't like the current hydra's state, but PLEASE don't troll me with loading tooltips.
Thanks.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->A Gorge with hydras...huge impact<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
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<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->A Gorge with hydras can have a huge impact??<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I don't know if that's sarcasm, but hydras are a waste of resources, unless one goes dedicated gorge.
Even then, simply strafing sideways will make hydras miss most of their shots. At 2m range.
Oh, and the light emitted by them is just a big sign screaming: "Here I am, your practice target!".
Sure, they can be "slightly annoying", and a "distraction", but certainly not a "huge impact".
As a gorge lover I don't like the current hydra's state, but PLEASE don't troll me with loading tooltips.
Thanks.
Comments
That's mostly because of marines' chicken sindrome.
Marines rushing a gorge = dead gorge... instead they often waste their time shooting clogs/hydras from afar, while gorges rebuilds/heals.
Holding a key, Imho, is 90% merit of clogs. Hydras' attack is so easy to dodge, damage is quite bad too...
I am not saying they don't help... they sure do, in some way.
But "help" != "huge impact"
But "help" != "huge impact"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So.... you're posting because you're upset about the wording used on a loading tip. gotcha.
Welders not as much.
Welders not as much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sarcasm?
A Gorge with Hydras...is considered equal to a Marine with a 5 resource Welder? When that Marine can solo the Gorge because he can still be equipped with a ###### Jetpack and Shotgun/GL/Flamethrower or just the base god damn LMG? And that makes him a SUPPORT CLASS?! Maybe if the Welder removed his primary gun, it would.
I'm sure that's not what this is about.
This is about the validity of hydras. "Are hydras as strong or useful as they should be?" That is the implied message of the original poster.
Well, I just never considered hydras what the tip stated them to be, that's it :p
Maybe because I'm not such a good players as well, I'm not a pro in ANY way (I played less than 100 hours)
But playing from both sides of the barricade, I have never ever considered hydras a "huge impact" making tool.
When I saw the tip it just seemed weird to me, that is all :p
no? They waste a lot of marine ammo, tres in drops, and more importantly time (even if there is no gorge). Rushing past hydra's isn't always the best thing nor is it sometimes possible against good gorges, let alone multiple gorges with 6+ hydra setups. Marines also only need to be hit by a hydra <b>once</b> in early game to put themselves on an easy 2 bite.
You can, and generally do use them to defend hives, and other harvestor expansion points. They shut down early marine harass and cost <b>pres</b> in a game where alien <b>tres</b> timing is way more important and relevant. If you're going gorge to heal a hive up, you might as well put the hydra's down as well because they're so cost effective. They were a staple of fast hive strats and still are.
Judging hydra effectiveness simply by hydra kill shots isn't very accurate.
Yes, it's not invincible, but it can delay or even stop a few marines. The marine team would have to make a pretty co-ordinated push to get past it.
My problem with hydras is accuracy.
As a marine, I can sidestrafe and almost never get hit, which is just easy.
Of course if I stand still i'll get hit, but who does that...
I would love to see<b> hydras' damage showing in my UI</b>, so to get an idea of how effective they are.
Maybe because I'm not such a good players as well, I'm not a pro in ANY way (I played less than 100 hours)
But playing from both sides of the barricade, I have never ever considered hydras a "huge impact" making tool.
When I saw the tip it just seemed weird to me, that is all :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For starters I'm not a pro either but having around 120 hrs as gorge since release I feel I got a decent idea how to play it. Often I see gorge being underestimated. Just because a gorge may not be able to single highhandedly stop pushes doesn't mean they can't have a huge impact on the game, especially early game. I can't tell you how many times I can stop the 1-3 marine recon push out for RTS early game by being aggressive and putting up clog+hydras up at a choke point past marines first RT or more often the case past their first (2nd cc) expansion on games that are more even. Tram and docking are two great maps to gorge on where if done right can (with backup when asked for) can have huge impact on games IMO.
Though I am finding that players are seeing through gorge bluffs more and they are learning when to chase us for a kill. Also what I don't see done often is it's a <b>HUGE</b> help you place hydras very close together so when a player sees them/shoots at them the player is getting hit with shots from all 3 plants. + it allows you as gorge to focus your healing in 1 spot and not skip a beat (if you are a sneaky you can heal most of your wall and all 3 plants at once). It's actually surprising how little people do this. Mostly only the players that I see regularly play gorge do it and oddly enough those are the ones I hate playing against the most since their gorge bases are generally hard to get past.
No. Did you watch ESL? They would just drop armories in any situation where marines might need a welder in NS1. You'd see hydras on almost every res tower just to delay marines from taking them down as quickly, and give aliens more time to respond and get in effective positions (if the hydras are not there marines can run in and camp wherever they want immediately, as opposed to being forced to take damage if they want that really nice spot behind the railing that's hard to jump over)
The fact that Hydras are now P-res and not T-res, and lifeforms can be dropped with T-res in the time stamps of the game where you now need a lerk, or you now need a fade, means there's much less pressure to "not waste" res on that type of defensive chamber. And if you can get them down somewhere where marines will also have to fight skulks and lifeforms, then they increase the power on the field without needing more players to babysit them.
For the same reason mines are incredibly powerful. I can still kill just as many skulks as I would normally kill by just shooting them, and the AR is still quite good. But there are now certain positions on the battlefield where the skulk will just die instantly if he goes there as well. Whenever I can have those positions around me, and still shoot skulks, twice as many skulks will die as normally would. And that can be enough to egg lock a hive for enough time that I can take down a res node, or take down an upgrade chamber. When skulks fight near hydras they're much more powerful, because ammo has been spent on hydras, damage has been whittled onto marines, the ideal positions for taking out skulks may not be the same for the ideal positions for taking out hydras... For a bunch of reasons early game hydras are now a real thing.
As a marine, I can sidestrafe and almost never get hit, which is just easy.
Of course if I stand still i'll get hit, but who does that...
I would love to see<b> hydras' damage showing in my UI</b>, so to get an idea of how effective they are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is partly true.
Hydra shots are predicted so the first volley is almost always guaranteed to hit (which is why hydra peek shooting isn't always very effective) . Sidestrafing doesn't exactly dodge hydra shots either because the shots are being predicted and 'lead' you. So yes you can dodge them completely with sidestrafing if they all fire at the same time but most of this time this isn't the case with clever hydra placement. Trying to sidestrafe dodge hydra shots which follow very quickly in succession is almost impossible because they're very accurately predicted.
Again, you don't need to die to a hydra for it to have been effective. Partial damage for 2bites and glancing bite kills, ammo, tres drops, and time. You also don't need to always 'roadblock' with them. When you put marines in situations where they need to prioritize something other than the hydras, you've got a huge advantage. It's more about how they synergise with other alien elements such as skulk ambushes, or hive/pillar dancing because they're so accurate if you're not consciously trying to time dodge them to the millisecond.
i think marines pres is alot less important than alien pres.
if you can get higher lifeforms out in time you are done.
but marines do not really need other weapons (except the GL sometimes)
and JP are incredibly cheap.
Hence, wasting pres on a useless structure is damaging.
And in most cases they are useless.
rarely a babysitting gorge can defend positions and you gain a huge early advantage.
But think about how often you jsut gun them down in 2 secs and continue without any further thought about them
if you can get higher lifeforms out in time you are done.
but marines do not really need other weapons (except the GL sometimes)
and JP are incredibly cheap.
Hence, wasting pres on a useless structure is damaging.
And in most cases they are useless.
rarely a babysitting gorge can defend positions and you gain a huge early advantage.
But think about how often you jsut gun them down in 2 secs and continue without any further thought about them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens tend to Tres drop many of their lifeforms in the competitive universe. Onos have obviously been delayed, but early fades and lerks are much more of a thing now.
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They don't wipe out entire marine pushes, they create space control for gorges. If a gorge doesn't have hydras near him then there's a good chance that he will die to just one marine and lose that map control. They also slow down marines progression of the map. They give time for other teammates to close in on the position before it is lost. Just because the kill-feed doesn't light up with hydra kills doesn't mean they are bad.
In addition, a gorge supporting his hydras further delays pushes and wastes both marine time and ammo. They are FAR more useful than players give them credit for. A couple of gorges that dedicate themselves to hydras rather than onos and fade is a huge help to the team.
Aye but the battery itself costs res as well and creates a focal point for vulnerability. Sentries are ok when they are positioned well until bile bomb comes on the field :S
As for hydras, I think 2 res per cost is more fair if people are honestly convinced that they suck because imo...they don't. They don't feed kills but they aren't meant to.
I Agree. They are meant to provide supporting fire <i>with</i> teammates, (they are suddenly more dangerous if the marine is distracted on something else like a skulk). Hydras aren't meant to hold their own and lock down a position like TF2s' Lv.3 sentry.
Because they played NS1 and know that Offensive Chambers were better.