<!--quoteo(post=2054307:date=Jan 1 2013, 10:21 PM:name=Timarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Timarius @ Jan 1 2013, 10:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2054307"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, how about I toss this one out there again... make it a ranged skill shot. Bring back that fleshy mouth arm on the Fade's shoulder and make it fire a vortex orb that vortexes whatever it hits. Give it a decent amount of speed, say... about as fast as a bile bomb, in a straight line. Maybe a little faster.
Suddenly, Vortex becomes amazing! Exo train coming in? Vortex ball! Break a turtle by disabling the arms lab? VORTEX BALL! Troll a guy trying to kill a harvester from a vent? VOR-TEX-BAAAAALLL!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Suggested that a long time ago.
However, I am afraid your approach would make it too powerful. Taking something out of the game IS a powerful ability after all. The only grudge with it is that the Fade is too valuable to risk it's life by going in to create an effect in a situation where it might be better off with dealing just plain damage. If you remove the risky part for the Fade, there should be something in return to make the ability not overpowered (i.e. that a Fade could sit somewhere in safe distance, never having to risk it's life and being able to reliably harass the marines without many chances for them to counter it).
Good multiplayer design does not only ask "how can we make this ability fun for the player using it?" but also "how can we make it fun for the player that it's being used against?". If the Vortex projectile could be shot down by marines if they can focus it's tiny hitbox with their rifle, this would actually add a new game mechanic for the marines as well with which they can deny a Fade a frontal Vortex if they know that the Fade is there and anticipate that it's going to use it. It would also prevent the ability from becoming overpowered against Exos, which could now shoot the projectile down if the Fade tries to Vortex them in a straight corridor from afar. The Vortex projectile might need to be a bit slower than Bile Bomb for this to work properly, but after all it's a more efficient PvE mechanic than PvP anyway. In return would this ability of the marines raise the skill floor and ceiling for the ability on the alien side again: the Fade could deny the denial of the Vortex to the marines by closing the distance before using it. Or by making use of the environment, set up an ambush and vortex the marines from a direction where they don't see it coming. It encourages to sneak around the Exo that keeps shooting down that corridor instead of taking him head-on.
What if they made it just disable weapons and buildings without phasing them out, so they could still be attacked? That would actually fall in line with common RTS abilities and maybe make it useful.
<!--quoteo(post=2054335:date=Jan 1 2013, 03:12 PM:name=CrushaK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CrushaK @ Jan 1 2013, 03:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2054335"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However, I am afraid your approach would make it too powerful. Taking something out of the game IS a powerful ability after all. The only grudge with it is that the Fade is too valuable to risk it's life by going in to create an effect in a situation where it might be better off with dealing just plain damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You raise a valid point, but if it was slower than a bile bomb, you risk it never hitting anything because players could just step to the left or the right and avoid it. It would need to be as fast as a Gorge spit, and even then, it would only be reliable against exos and buildings (unless a marine jumps in front of it and takes the bullet, so to say, for the building or exo). And as for being able to shoot it down, sure, that sounds fun... but again, if the projectile is too slow, it's a completely useless ability.
So in summation, if Vortex became an orb that was fired out of the Fade's fleshy shoulder mouth, it would need to be at a speed just above bile bomb or nearing Gorge spit with a large enough hitbox that it could hit something but small enough that it could be dodged by faster units and waste enough energy that the Fade may have to think twice about jumping in after using it. Possible chance of it being shot down (although, I'm not a fan of this one).
<!--quoteo(post=2053777:date=Jan 1 2013, 12:59 AM:name=Dwavenhobble)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dwavenhobble @ Jan 1 2013, 12:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053777"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Vortex the Arms lab.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines don't lose their upgrades. I checked this.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Volcano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Volcano)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just remove it and replace it with something decent, the current version of vortex is beyond useless<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's useful when you don't need 3th hive for research this vortex - for sending PG away and canceling beacon.
Would be cool if Vortex could be utilized as a temporary phasegate. Like 1 fade on the map channels vortex, and the other fade does the same and aliens can get through as long as both fades keep channeling. There would be a delay on aliens getting through individually.
I know that could be too powerful though, marines need to construct ninja phasegates to do the same thing.
Then again, the phasegates are permanent and marines can still beacon in case of an attack.
<!--quoteo(post=2054674:date=Jan 2 2013, 08:46 AM:name=Keldorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keldorn @ Jan 2 2013, 08:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2054674"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Would be cool if Vortex could be utilized as a temporary phasegate. Like 1 fade on the map channels vortex, and the other fade does the same and aliens can get through as long as both fades keep channeling. There would be a delay on aliens getting through individually.
I know that could be too powerful though, marines need to construct ninja phasegates to do the same thing.
Then again, the phasegates are permanent and marines can still beacon in case of an attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought of that too but it sounds like Gorges are getting tunnels in the big content patch. I don't know if other aliens will be able to use those tunnels though, if not then Vortex would be very useful if it created an alien "phase gate." Rather than being channeled, one Fade should be able to maintain one pair of vortexes, either of which can be destroyed by a marine touching it.
<!--quoteo(post=2054802:date=Jan 2 2013, 12:58 PM:name=CrushaK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CrushaK @ Jan 2 2013, 12:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2054802"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While mobile Ink is tempting, it would basically make a bulk of Camouflage aliens with a Fade invincible in a base rush.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, why would you think Ink has one absolute value of effectiveness?
Totally opaque ink over a large radius = Invincible Aliens Mostly transparent ink over a small radius = Useless ...and the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle.
They've already tweaked the transparency of Shade ink once, as I recall (it used to be far darker and almost totally opaque.)
Comments
Suddenly, Vortex becomes amazing! Exo train coming in? Vortex ball! Break a turtle by disabling the arms lab? VORTEX BALL! Troll a guy trying to kill a harvester from a vent? VOR-TEX-BAAAAALLL!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Suggested that a long time ago.
However, I am afraid your approach would make it too powerful. Taking something out of the game IS a powerful ability after all. The only grudge with it is that the Fade is too valuable to risk it's life by going in to create an effect in a situation where it might be better off with dealing just plain damage.
If you remove the risky part for the Fade, there should be something in return to make the ability not overpowered (i.e. that a Fade could sit somewhere in safe distance, never having to risk it's life and being able to reliably harass the marines without many chances for them to counter it).
Good multiplayer design does not only ask "how can we make this ability fun for the player using it?" but also "how can we make it fun for the player that it's being used against?". If the Vortex projectile could be shot down by marines if they can focus it's tiny hitbox with their rifle, this would actually add a new game mechanic for the marines as well with which they can deny a Fade a frontal Vortex if they know that the Fade is there and anticipate that it's going to use it. It would also prevent the ability from becoming overpowered against Exos, which could now shoot the projectile down if the Fade tries to Vortex them in a straight corridor from afar. The Vortex projectile might need to be a bit slower than Bile Bomb for this to work properly, but after all it's a more efficient PvE mechanic than PvP anyway.
In return would this ability of the marines raise the skill floor and ceiling for the ability on the alien side again: the Fade could deny the denial of the Vortex to the marines by closing the distance before using it. Or by making use of the environment, set up an ambush and vortex the marines from a direction where they don't see it coming. It encourages to sneak around the Exo that keeps shooting down that corridor instead of taking him head-on.
You raise a valid point, but if it was slower than a bile bomb, you risk it never hitting anything because players could just step to the left or the right and avoid it. It would need to be as fast as a Gorge spit, and even then, it would only be reliable against exos and buildings (unless a marine jumps in front of it and takes the bullet, so to say, for the building or exo). And as for being able to shoot it down, sure, that sounds fun... but again, if the projectile is too slow, it's a completely useless ability.
So in summation, if Vortex became an orb that was fired out of the Fade's fleshy shoulder mouth, it would need to be at a speed just above bile bomb or nearing Gorge spit with a large enough hitbox that it could hit something but small enough that it could be dodged by faster units and waste enough energy that the Fade may have to think twice about jumping in after using it. Possible chance of it being shot down (although, I'm not a fan of this one).
Marines don't lose their upgrades. I checked this.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Volcano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Volcano)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just remove it and replace it with something decent, the current version of vortex is beyond useless<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's useful when you don't need 3th hive for research this vortex - for sending PG away and canceling beacon.
It's useful when you don't need 3th hive for research this vortex - for sending PG away and canceling beacon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn I thought they did, they panicked enough as though they had
I know that could be too powerful though, marines need to construct ninja phasegates to do the same thing.
Then again, the phasegates are permanent and marines can still beacon in case of an attack.
I know that could be too powerful though, marines need to construct ninja phasegates to do the same thing.
Then again, the phasegates are permanent and marines can still beacon in case of an attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought of that too but it sounds like Gorges are getting tunnels in the big content patch. I don't know if other aliens will be able to use those tunnels though, if not then Vortex would be very useful if it created an alien "phase gate." Rather than being channeled, one Fade should be able to maintain one pair of vortexes, either of which can be destroyed by a marine touching it.
No commanders, kill evemy base, killing enemy gives exp, exo gives levels, levels give points, points give stuff.
Among other things, you could get ink on a fade. 14 sec CD I think.
Bloddy scary, I tell ya...
Eh, why would you think Ink has one absolute value of effectiveness?
Totally opaque ink over a large radius = Invincible Aliens
Mostly transparent ink over a small radius = Useless
...and the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle.
They've already tweaked the transparency of Shade ink once, as I recall (it used to be far darker and almost totally opaque.)