Feels great, just one small thing: There should be another level of motion tracking. The tracker right now is excellent, but having the 'alien near' beeps on constantly loses a little of the fear factor. Having separate beeps for alien near and alien close would be very atmospheric :D.
The new version is almost ready. I'm preparing a new playtest in order to chase the last bugs before publication on the workshop, tomorrow. I'm planning this alpha 3 for this weekend ;).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Feels great, just one small thing: There should be another level of motion tracking. The tracker right now is excellent, but having the 'alien near' beeps on constantly loses a little of the fear factor. Having separate beeps for alien near and alien close would be very atmospheric :D.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a bit hard to calibrate this motion tracking :). But yes, I will try. I'm planning to add a "special" bip when a stronger alien is near (Fade or Onos) ;).
Merci :). Je travail encore sur cet atmosphère ;).
----------
I'm doing a playtest right now, for interested players.
Join on me (with steam), or look for a server with the game "<b>Forsaken Test</b>" ;), Or type in the console "<b>connect server.theicecave.net:27015</b>"
The AlgerianJoin Date: 2012-12-22Member: 175962Members
I've been playing this mod pretty much all evening. It's really great, you guys all need to try it out, as marines it's scary as hell, as alien you laugh your jaws out scaring the hell out of marines. If you want to try, go to server browser and type "Forsaken" in the filter "Game".
The AlgerianJoin Date: 2012-12-22Member: 175962Members
<!--quoteo(post=2056130:date=Jan 4 2013, 09:11 PM:name=lucskywalker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lucskywalker @ Jan 4 2013, 09:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2056130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I want to thank the players who were present for the playtest of the new version :). I must fix few things before the publication... for tomorrow !
I already have some ideas for the alpha 4 ... for marines ;).
See you soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's always a pleasure. I got a few suggestions though: - Remove friendly fire or if possible let it be only for Grenade Launchers. - Weapons Limit: 2 flamethrowers per team and 1 GL, max. - If possible try to influence the percentage of time the Hive is on the most far tech point from the Marine base. (Like 70%)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Infestation and alien structures (Crag, Shift, Whip and BoneWall) are randomly generated on the map, each round. - The environment and the infestation are darker. - Some alien structures are more tough: BoneWalls, Clogs and eggs. - Eggs are invisible.
- Marines start with more ammunition. - Aliens don't drop anymore ammopacks when they are killed. - Few ammopacks and medpacks are scattered all over the map, randomly. - Marines move more slowly (again).
- Friendlyfire activated for Marines (penalty set to 15%) - Alien upgrades have a cost, now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have made a quick fix for this new version, for shaders and the infestation generation. The mod works better :).
For the next version (alpha 4), I will work on the marines equipment: They will can carry a weapon (Rifle, Shotgun, flame, grenade) and a tool on them. They can choose one tool: - A nanoshield, which covers them for 5 seconds. Single use. - A pack of 3 mines, which can be set on infestation. - A welder, less powerfull than the ordinary one. - A pack of 4 flares, that illuminate the room for 10 seconds.
Moreover, I will work on the dark atmosphere of the game. I'm planning to add few effects on this atmosphere, like random noises or hallucinations, and I will refine it.
There is a loooooott of things to do on this atmosphere. But I can't do everything in one version ;).
After that version, I will rework all the alien gameplay to add more diversity. The idea is that all evolution are equals (gorge = fade) and they can be accessed early. Exceptions are Skulk and Onos. Maybe I will allow the cloak and silence upgrades.... for more scary moments :D.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Xk_6qTDKEA4"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Xk_6qTDKEA4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center> A little test with the atmosphere, infestation, and hallucination ;). And few things.
I finished the work on the atmosphere of this mod. Next part: Marine's equipements ;).
I'm planning a quick playtest for the next week, with the few changes. I will try to make a better video and few screenshots about this new version, during this session.
I foresee two new alpha versions for this mod (after alpha 4), ​​before entering in the beta version. Unless the mod needs more tweaking.
However, don't hesitate to play with this mod and give me more feedbacks!
There is 2 way to find and join a Forsaken server. - Connect with the IP address. You must open the console (key "²", i think), and write "connect server.theicecave.net:27015" (or "connect" follow by the IP). - Search them on the server list. You can find them by filtering servers with the "forsaken" key word, in the "game" filter.
Some things, including radar and the alien gameplay, will be reworked and be polished ;).
There is a lot of ideas or stuff to implement for this mod, even if the current version is well evolved. The mod will be in beta when I would be satisfied ;). My standards are a bit high.
I'm planning a new playtest for the alpha 4, Wednesday at 9PM (GMT +1, French time zone :o).
Everything is not implemented (or not correctly implemented), but there are already some things to try: Hallucinations, few changes about the atmosphere and the buy system of marines, some corrections ... as well as the "Flare Launcher" and the personnal "NanoShield" :).
Played for a good hour last night on the hidden server when we tried it out. A few comments that I just want to share.
Aliens are pretty strong. I think in all the games last night marines only won once. It only takes about 5 min to get lerks, and with lerks and gorges you can setup a pretty good road block. In a few games the marines went all over the map losing people on the way. By the time they found the hive they had two people and it was a no go. I thought if they knew where the hive was they would have a better chance. So for the next 10 games or so I told the marines where we spawned at the start. We still won all the games but they did get closer. Usually they would get right outside the hive then we would just destroy them. Once aliens get lerks and can just shoot from afar it gets much harder.
For marines I like the idea of one life. It goes with the story and plot. I like the flare gun. I really hate that you have to ask your teammates to see how much health you have. In a normal pub game people will usually not heal you unless you ask. I think its pretty important that you can see your HP hud. Then you can be like.. o im one hit from dying... "someone weld me". Or if you see a hp pack.. "i have 99% hp someone else take it". Also if your low on health it would change your playing style. You would probably not lead if you were super low. In this story and plot a person would know if they had been bitten half to death.
I really like the game idea its new and I think it can work.
A few other random notes - Marines can currently kill the armory, could be used for griefing - All talk during the game, could be used for griefing (aliens say where they spawn) - If your marien you can hop to spectator and back to see where they are at - maybe make nano shield reusable? (5 uses or something) - maybe make marines only visible on infestation, they kill stuff around the map so you can follow them that way also. Its pretty easy to see if someone gets separated and then swarm them.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Played for a good hour last night on the hidden server when we tried it out. A few comments that I just want to share.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What a feedback! Thank you :). You summarize some of black points of my mod. Nevertheless, I already know about these problems (most of them). So, better than explain them, I will tell you what I'm planning to do ;).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens are pretty strong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, they are, and they must be "strong". However, cause of a bad design, they are TOO DAMN strong!
In reality, there is two main reasons that marines lose every rounds: - Aliens have access to the super lerk, early (everyone know about that). - This mod is difficult for marines, and different from the original game.
But, there is some reasons that this mod is hard for marines. In one word: Atmosphere. If "good" marines know the position of the Hive, they will rush it in one or two minutes, and kick every alien's ass with their shotguns. They will be sure of what they are doing, without fear. Without knowing the hive position at start, marines will lose their "hope" in an abandonned and dark space station. Their actions will have uncertain consequences and the atmosphere will dominates marines movements (and their doubt). They are not rushing (or they try.. and die :p). In this situation, a lot of marines play together, instinctively.
The real question is: "Should we be afraid of the known or the unknown?". Yes, I like being a little philosophical :p. But the atmosphere of this game is very - very - important. Not only the gameplay.
So, what I plan for this balancing problem? In the next alpha, I will change the alien gameplay (again). I've already explained everything about that. Aliens will be nerf with this version. But everything will not be balanced in this version. I will try to correct all balance issues in the last alpha version (before the first beta version). I will do it in one specific version.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really hate that you have to ask your teammates to see how much health you have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is something that I will rework. But, marines will have no HUD in this mod (for the atmosphere). In any situation. I don't know if you notice but when a marine is nearly dead, his screen turns a little red (with a blur effect). I will tweak this cool stuff for this mod, in order to add a better indication of the marines health :).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Marines can currently kill the armory, could be used for griefing - All talk during the game, could be used for griefing (aliens say where they spawn) - If your marien you can hop to spectator and back to see where they are at<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you for informing me of this. Nevertheless, I don't want to waste my time with "exploits". I trust the players of this mod, and they are only one or two for exploiting my baby ;) I will work on that later.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- maybe make nano shield reusable? (5 uses or something)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Tools (mines, welder, nanoshield and flares) are used for specific situation, for the team. They are underpowered or with limited uses. For example, the welder is my mod is an underpowered version of the one in the original game.
About the nanoshield, this is a very personal tool which can easily counter alien attacks. There is only very few situations where the NanoShield actually helps the team and not just the player. This is why this object has only one use: To promote the use of other tools, which are more useful for the team. However, I'll improve its execution time ;).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->maybe make marines only visible on infestation, they kill stuff around the map so you can follow them that way also. Its pretty easy to see if someone gets separated and then swarm them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> When aliens don't know marine's positions, the game become very slow and very boring for everyone. I try it in the first alpha :p. But the idea itself is not bad. Maybe marines must not be shown on the radar, in the first seconds ? I'll think about it later.
I hope I could make myself understood with my bad english :). Have fun guys !
A little change of the luminosity for aliens, in order to know what is a dark room or not (and understand what marines saw).
I'm planning a new playtest next Thursday at 9pm. Last playtest before the publication of the new version :). You can find the playtest server by using the game filter "forsaken test".
<!--quoteo(post=2065063:date=Jan 22 2013, 10:03 PM:name=lucskywalker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lucskywalker @ Jan 22 2013, 10:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2065063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm planning a new playtest next Thursday at 9pm. Last playtest before the publication of the new version :). You can find the playtest server by using the game filter "forsaken test".
See you soon !<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
9:00 PM in which time zone ? Would it be possible to join ? What would I have to do before joining ? Never done anything modding like before. Will the mod be loaded automatically on joining the server ?
You may need to subscribe to the mod in Steam workshop ( <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=109430851" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...s/?id=109430851</a> ), then in NS2 main menu, select mods, and activate this mod, then hit the restart button.
Or....it may download automatically when you connect to the server ^^
If you join the steam group you'll get a notification when it begins. <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/groups/NS2Forsaken" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/groups/NS2Forsaken</a>
This is Paris timezone. UTC/GMT +1. However, the server will be active for 24 hours. But I would not be here all the time ;).
You can find the playtest server, by setting the game filter on "forsaken test". You don't need to do anything. The mod will be loaded automatically, when you join the server ;).
Thank you very much for this great Alpha test. Athmosphere is great and I really think, this is how NS2 should look like. Overall, this is a great mod which I really do not want to miss, but there are some things I dislike or for which I am not sure if I like them:
1) Games tend to be too fast (and short) for my taste. Maybe this is the fault of the too small NS2 standard maps, but for both sides rushing out is still the best strategy.
2) It is a great advantage for the aliens to know every time where the marines are. Maybe Aliens should only see Marines while those walk on infestation ?
3) Marines do die somewhat easily. Well, maybe this is because I am really bad in FPS games based on PvP, but every time I encounter an Alien as Marine I die. ( Well the same happens while I encounter a Marine as Alien - but that's supposed to happen, it's part of the gameplay ^_-)
4) While playing Marines, I hardly heared a difference in beeping when an alien was near.
5) Marines hardly have a benefit from repairing power nodes ... and it takes ages. While the latter is OK and ensures teamplay nicely, repairing energy nodes is more of a threat than a strategy for Marines. So they do not take the time and rush by, because most of them are so trained by playing NS2 that they can navigate the maps even blindly. To give Marines a reason for repairing power nodes, maybe those could provide am armour bonus in powered sections or the ability to seldomly revive some of the fallen comrades.
6) Gameplay is somewhat static, mission statement is clear and once the marines found the hive, it's live and let die. There are no surprises nor twists which the aliens could introduce. Letting a gorge build a second hive unnoticedly whould introduce some surprises and ensure it's not game over until the marines killed all hives and all aliens - which would be a propper mission because the marines are there to secure the station again (and remaining free running skulks are not what I'd call secure ^^)
7) You did a great job in balancing. As I recall, we had near 1:1 winning ratios. But still, the system forces you to join in evenly distributed teams. It would be great, if you could enable the possibility to join in unequal numbers of players per team. So one could decide to put a few good players into Aliens and a bigger rookie team in Marines (or the other way round)
I mostly agree with Ineluki's points. Especially 4) 5) 6)
There should be 3 or 4 different beeping sounds instead of two.
The objective of killing the hive doesn't feel right to me in this mode. Once you find the hive the atmosphere falls flat and you're back to standard ns2 almost. I'd prefer an objective like escape or capture the flag.
Features like spikes were good...they make it feel more like a gauntlet. It would be nice if the gorge could lay traps like that.
Impressed with the flares too. Just make them more saturated red, they're a bit pale. Can you make them flicker?
Not sure if all marines should automatically get the sonar/radar item. They don't even have to equip anything...feels cheap.
The menus and messages are well designed and functional.
Not sure if it's been suggested yet or if it's possible but as possible missions, escorting 1 exo to a safe zone or taking down 1 onos might be fun as alternatives to hunting and killing the hive.
Another idea could be to have proto labs or bonuses off-route that they need to decide whether to risk getting to.
Atmosphere of this mod is very cool ! But due to fast paced gameplay there is still too less tension / horror in the game. Permanent death is nearly no penalty because of still too fast paced gameplay, feasible rushing and short game sessions. Marines have too less HP and deal too much damage to be scared of the aliens. So there is no need in staying alive at all costs. Longer game sessions offering other tactical options than rushing, and abandoning permanent death in favor of very long respawn times which are modified by tactical elements may be a feasible way to achieve tension and horror in the game.
<b>LONG Version</b>
As far as I get the intention of this mod, it is to introduce some tension and a tiny touch of horror to the game. By using atmospheric effects such as darkness, etc, this mod definitely does a better job than the original, but there are still some points, which do not directly contribute to this goal.
1) Marines die somewhat fast. While in normal horror games this is a feasible way to go, here it is not. Games are fast paced and hardly longer than 7 to 10 minutes, so death means nothing atm. New game, new luck.
2) So, the best way to ensure tension would be to ensure that the marines do want to stay alive. This could be achieved by longer games in which being dead is a penalty because one is not able to play. On the other hand, staying dead for too long is no penalty at all, because frustrated players will quit shortly after dying.
3) By penalizing players for dying, the game designer is also responsible to give the players the tools to stay alive. Removing the health status of the player's character from the HUD is in this way contraproductive to the horror/tension element. A player knowing he is nearly dying would built up tension and adapt its strategic play. Even more so when he lost lots of HP in the process of playing, because he knows, he wasn't dying on every encounter anyways.
This brings me to the conclusion, that games should be longer, marines should have more HP but deal less damage to the aliens, and their HP should be shown again. Furthermore I'd like to advocate penalization of player death by removing perma-death and introducing very long Marine respawn times.
<i><b>In greater detail:</i></b>
Although one of the original features of the mod is permanent marine death, I had some thoughts on the topic. As I stated above, matches are a bit short for my taste. Hardly 10 minutes each. So I made some suggestions concerning elongation but then perma-death would be a bigger problem. As it is now, watching the remaining 3 to 5 minutes of a game is fun. Watching a game from death for an hour isn't. So I thought about a solution which additionally solves some of my above mentioned problems, especially lack of tactical variation / mission goals.
What about an infantry portal which is buyable at the armory under two conditions: a) there is no other infantry portal in the game, and b) the last infantry portal died at minimum 3 minutes ago
This infantry portal has the following properties: 1) It can be placed in any room but only within 10 meters from a power node. Also, the node has to be powered in order to let the portal work. 2) Its building time is extrordinary long. As lonely marine, this should take about 2 to 3 minutes, using a team it should be reduced accordingly. 3) Albeit its long building time, the infantry portal is a more or less weak structure, so its protection is of paramount import. 4) Marine respawn time should be very long (e.g. 2 minutes), but should decrease proportional to the number of running power nodes.
<i><b>In-game explanation: </i></b> A TSF Infantry Portal , being a combination of high detail atomic plotter and neuro inductor, is a very complex piece of equippment. Therefore, it is prone to damage during transportation, and, based on this ground, it is futile to bring one with the troops. So it has to be constructed on site by nano robots (nanites). On destruction, which is achieved easily (so take caution), because of its complex nature, the specialized nanites have to be recollected at the armory facility which takes some time. Furthermore, restructuring of matter on an atomic level including such high detail needed to produce living matter and conciousness, takes an aweful lot of data processing and energy, which has to be conducted to the TSF Infantry Portal due to the space stations own energy relais. This is only feasible if and only if most of the stations power routes are used. Otherwise, the TSF Infantry Portal can not operate to its full potential which reduces reconstruction time dramatically. So take care, soldier !
<i><b>How does this improve gameplay ?</i></b>
1) While rushing in is still a feasible tactic for the marines, it is now only one of two options, i.e. the risky one.
2) Construction and maintaining of an infantry portal binds valuable human rescources to the preparation and protection of a base.
3) Maximising respawn rate requires securing of as much power nodes as possible. This ensures maximal survival probabilities but requires good team work and slows down marine expansion.
4) Marines have to calculate the trade offs between securing their base (and reviving their fallen comrades) and offering ambush possibilities and expansion to the aliens (e.g. building a secondary or third hive by the Gorge class).
5) For Aliens, rushing the Marine's base is still a feasible tactic, espeacially in the beginning, but now they have to be a bit more tactical because it is not only killing some marines but to prevent marine respawning through gnawing on lonely power nodes, luring marines into the darkness, and destroying their infantry portal. Through their ability to construct additional hives as well as their dark sight and their fast respawn rate, they are still competetive.
Maybe by these ideas, gameplay is moved from rushing/crushing in fast paced short games to surviving long enough in a fearful and hostile environment in order to gain the advantage over the aggressor.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But due to fast paced gameplay there is still too less tension / horror in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank you for this feedback :). The best part of your feedback is that you are right. Totally right.
There is a reason that games are "short" (5 minutes around). This is not a cooperative game only, but it's a PvP with an annoying death penalty. And this is on this last point that you are right.
However! I don't want to abandon the death penalty. If marines are sure to respawn, the atmosphere becomes less oppressive.
Actually, packs (medpack/ammopack) and marine structures are randomly generated on the map, in order to give a "bonus" for marines who doesn't rush. At the same time, I generated some "walls" on the fastest way to the Hive (to not encourage marines to take this path.) But despite of that, marines rush everytime :/. I must improve this part.
The IP idea is not bad. I had already thought about the possibility of an Infantry Portal (dropped randomly on the map), but this is very hard to balance.
I have in mind three other solutions to this problem, but that will take time to implement. - Infantry Portal: The same idea as yours, but marines must search for it. The original idea is that the IP has a single use. - "Secondary mission": This are not real "missions", but something small that marines can do. This is a "bigger" version of "packs/structures/infestation generation". For example: marines can build a small base to retrieve ammunition and heal wounds, before attacking the Hive. - More missions: Instead of achieving one mission, marines must achieve several. Between each missions, marines can revive one or few of their friends (or heal wounds, etc...)
But despite these solutions, I need to find something to "occupy" dead marines, without encouraging suicide. One idea I have is to turn them into an alien (in a smaller version) who attack their ex-friends.
For now, these are only ideas :). But it is true that this problem is very annoying. I'm going to work on it "soon". We can talk about it on Steam if you want ;).
About other problems (no HUD for health, aliens vision, etc...), I noted some. I have nothing more to say, you've said it all :).
Thank you for videos ;). I will add them on the workshop page.
Changelog: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Friendlyfire penalty was reduced. - Better atmosphere, less "un-realistic HUD" for marines.
- Sentry and observatory are randomly spawned on the map. Marines must repair the powernode to activate them. - New tools for marines: The Flare launcher and the Nanoshield pack. - Marines can buy a weapon AND a tool. - Armory menu reworked. - Mines can be armed on the infestation. - Welder is nerfed.
- Hive HP reduced. - Alien vision darker. - Lerk and Fade are nerfed. - Crag/Healspray/Regen for aliens are nerfed. - Alien gestation time quicker.
- Some (technical) fix.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
The new version is almost ready. I'm preparing a new playtest in order to chase the last bugs before publication on the workshop, tomorrow.
I'm planning this alpha 3 for this weekend ;).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Feels great, just one small thing: There should be another level of motion tracking. The tracker right now is excellent, but having the 'alien near' beeps on constantly loses a little of the fear factor. Having separate beeps for alien near and alien close would be very atmospheric :D.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a bit hard to calibrate this motion tracking :). But yes, I will try.
I'm planning to add a "special" bip when a stronger alien is near (Fade or Onos) ;).
Je travail encore sur cet atmosphère ;).
----------
I'm doing a playtest right now, for interested players.
Join on me (with steam),
or look for a server with the game "<b>Forsaken Test</b>" ;),
Or type in the console "<b>connect server.theicecave.net:27015</b>"
It's really great, you guys all need to try it out, as marines it's scary as hell, as alien you laugh your jaws out scaring the hell out of marines.
If you want to try, go to server browser and type "Forsaken" in the filter "Game".
I must fix few things before the publication... for tomorrow !
I already have some ideas for the alpha 4 ... for marines ;).
See you soon.
I must fix few things before the publication... for tomorrow !
I already have some ideas for the alpha 4 ... for marines ;).
See you soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's always a pleasure.
I got a few suggestions though:
- Remove friendly fire or if possible let it be only for Grenade Launchers.
- Weapons Limit: 2 flamethrowers per team and 1 GL, max.
- If possible try to influence the percentage of time the Hive is on the most far tech point from the Marine base. (Like 70%)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Infestation and alien structures (Crag, Shift, Whip and BoneWall) are randomly generated on the map, each round.
- The environment and the infestation are darker.
- Some alien structures are more tough: BoneWalls, Clogs and eggs.
- Eggs are invisible.
- Marines start with more ammunition.
- Aliens don't drop anymore ammopacks when they are killed.
- Few ammopacks and medpacks are scattered all over the map, randomly.
- Marines move more slowly (again).
- Friendlyfire activated for Marines (penalty set to 15%)
- Alien upgrades have a cost, now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the next version (alpha 4), I will work on the marines equipment: They will can carry a weapon (Rifle, Shotgun, flame, grenade) and a tool on them.
They can choose one tool:
- A nanoshield, which covers them for 5 seconds. Single use.
- A pack of 3 mines, which can be set on infestation.
- A welder, less powerfull than the ordinary one.
- A pack of 4 flares, that illuminate the room for 10 seconds.
Moreover, I will work on the dark atmosphere of the game. I'm planning to add few effects on this atmosphere, like random noises or hallucinations, and I will refine it.
There is a loooooott of things to do on this atmosphere. But I can't do everything in one version ;).
After that version, I will rework all the alien gameplay to add more diversity. The idea is that all evolution are equals (gorge = fade) and they can be accessed early. Exceptions are Skulk and Onos.
Maybe I will allow the cloak and silence upgrades.... for more scary moments :D.
See you soon :).
A little test with the atmosphere, infestation, and hallucination ;). And few things.
I finished the work on the atmosphere of this mod. Next part: Marine's equipements ;).
I'm planning a quick playtest for the next week, with the few changes. I will try to make a better video and few screenshots about this new version, during this session.
I foresee two new alpha versions for this mod (after alpha 4), ​​before entering in the beta version. Unless the mod needs more tweaking.
However, don't hesitate to play with this mod and give me more feedbacks!
Have fun guys ;).
- Connect with the IP address. You must open the console (key "²", i think), and write "connect server.theicecave.net:27015" (or "connect" follow by the IP).
- Search them on the server list. You can find them by filtering servers with the "forsaken" key word, in the "game" filter.
Have fun guys ;).
There is a lot of ideas or stuff to implement for this mod, even if the current version is well evolved.
The mod will be in beta when I would be satisfied ;). My standards are a bit high.
Everything is not implemented (or not correctly implemented), but there are already some things to try: Hallucinations, few changes about the atmosphere and the buy system of marines, some corrections ... as well as the "Flare Launcher" and the personnal "NanoShield" :).
See you soon !
Aliens are pretty strong. I think in all the games last night marines only won once. It only takes about 5 min to get lerks, and with lerks and gorges you can setup a pretty good road block. In a few games the marines went all over the map losing people on the way. By the time they found the hive they had two people and it was a no go. I thought if they knew where the hive was they would have a better chance. So for the next 10 games or so I told the marines where we spawned at the start. We still won all the games but they did get closer. Usually they would get right outside the hive then we would just destroy them. Once aliens get lerks and can just shoot from afar it gets much harder.
For marines I like the idea of one life. It goes with the story and plot. I like the flare gun. I really hate that you have to ask your teammates to see how much health you have. In a normal pub game people will usually not heal you unless you ask. I think its pretty important that you can see your HP hud. Then you can be like.. o im one hit from dying... "someone weld me". Or if you see a hp pack.. "i have 99% hp someone else take it". Also if your low on health it would change your playing style. You would probably not lead if you were super low. In this story and plot a person would know if they had been bitten half to death.
I really like the game idea its new and I think it can work.
A few other random notes
- Marines can currently kill the armory, could be used for griefing
- All talk during the game, could be used for griefing (aliens say where they spawn)
- If your marien you can hop to spectator and back to see where they are at
- maybe make nano shield reusable? (5 uses or something)
- maybe make marines only visible on infestation, they kill stuff around the map so you can follow them that way also. Its pretty easy to see if someone gets separated and then swarm them.
Thanks for the fun!
What a feedback! Thank you :).
You summarize some of black points of my mod.
Nevertheless, I already know about these problems (most of them). So, better than explain them, I will tell you what I'm planning to do ;).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens are pretty strong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, they are, and they must be "strong".
However, cause of a bad design, they are TOO DAMN strong!
In reality, there is two main reasons that marines lose every rounds:
- Aliens have access to the super lerk, early (everyone know about that).
- This mod is difficult for marines, and different from the original game.
But, there is some reasons that this mod is hard for marines. In one word: Atmosphere.
If "good" marines know the position of the Hive, they will rush it in one or two minutes, and kick every alien's ass with their shotguns. They will be sure of what they are doing, without fear.
Without knowing the hive position at start, marines will lose their "hope" in an abandonned and dark space station. Their actions will have uncertain consequences and the atmosphere will dominates marines movements (and their doubt). They are not rushing (or they try.. and die :p).
In this situation, a lot of marines play together, instinctively.
The real question is: "Should we be afraid of the known or the unknown?". Yes, I like being a little philosophical :p. But the atmosphere of this game is very - very - important. Not only the gameplay.
So, what I plan for this balancing problem?
In the next alpha, I will change the alien gameplay (again). I've already explained everything about that. Aliens will be nerf with this version. But everything will not be balanced in this version.
I will try to correct all balance issues in the last alpha version (before the first beta version). I will do it in one specific version.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really hate that you have to ask your teammates to see how much health you have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is something that I will rework. But, marines will have no HUD in this mod (for the atmosphere). In any situation.
I don't know if you notice but when a marine is nearly dead, his screen turns a little red (with a blur effect). I will tweak this cool stuff for this mod, in order to add a better indication of the marines health :).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Marines can currently kill the armory, could be used for griefing
- All talk during the game, could be used for griefing (aliens say where they spawn)
- If your marien you can hop to spectator and back to see where they are at<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you for informing me of this.
Nevertheless, I don't want to waste my time with "exploits". I trust the players of this mod, and they are only one or two for exploiting my baby ;)
I will work on that later.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- maybe make nano shield reusable? (5 uses or something)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tools (mines, welder, nanoshield and flares) are used for specific situation, for the team. They are underpowered or with limited uses.
For example, the welder is my mod is an underpowered version of the one in the original game.
About the nanoshield, this is a very personal tool which can easily counter alien attacks. There is only very few situations where the NanoShield actually helps the team and not just the player.
This is why this object has only one use: To promote the use of other tools, which are more useful for the team.
However, I'll improve its execution time ;).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->maybe make marines only visible on infestation, they kill stuff around the map so you can follow them that way also. Its pretty easy to see if someone gets separated and then swarm them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When aliens don't know marine's positions, the game become very slow and very boring for everyone. I try it in the first alpha :p.
But the idea itself is not bad. Maybe marines must not be shown on the radar, in the first seconds ? I'll think about it later.
I hope I could make myself understood with my bad english :).
Have fun guys !
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A little change of the luminosity for aliens, in order to know what is a dark room or not (and understand what marines saw).
I'm planning a new playtest next Thursday at 9pm. Last playtest before the publication of the new version :).
You can find the playtest server by using the game filter "forsaken test".
See you soon !
You can find the playtest server by using the game filter "forsaken test".
See you soon !<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
9:00 PM in which time zone ? Would it be possible to join ?
What would I have to do before joining ? Never done anything modding like before.
Will the mod be loaded automatically on joining the server ?
That's 8pm GMT, and 3pm EST
You may need to subscribe to the mod in Steam workshop ( <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=109430851" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...s/?id=109430851</a> ), then in NS2 main menu, select mods, and activate this mod, then hit the restart button.
Or....it may download automatically when you connect to the server ^^
If you join the steam group you'll get a notification when it begins. <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/groups/NS2Forsaken" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/groups/NS2Forsaken</a>
This is Paris timezone. UTC/GMT +1.
However, the server will be active for 24 hours. But I would not be here all the time ;).
You can find the playtest server, by setting the game filter on "forsaken test".
You don't need to do anything. The mod will be loaded automatically, when you join the server ;).
Have fun!
Well... starting now ;).
Athmosphere is great and I really think, this is how NS2 should look like.
Overall, this is a great mod which I really do not want to miss, but there are some things I dislike or for which I am not sure if I like them:
1) Games tend to be too fast (and short) for my taste. Maybe this is the fault of the too small NS2 standard maps, but for both sides rushing out is still the best strategy.
2) It is a great advantage for the aliens to know every time where the marines are. Maybe Aliens should only see Marines while those walk on infestation ?
3) Marines do die somewhat easily. Well, maybe this is because I am really bad in FPS games based on PvP, but every time I encounter an Alien as Marine I die. ( Well the same happens while I encounter a Marine as Alien - but that's supposed to happen, it's part of the gameplay ^_-)
4) While playing Marines, I hardly heared a difference in beeping when an alien was near.
5) Marines hardly have a benefit from repairing power nodes ... and it takes ages. While the latter is OK and ensures teamplay nicely, repairing energy nodes is more of a threat than a strategy for Marines. So they do not take the time and rush by, because most of them are so trained by playing NS2 that they can navigate the maps even blindly. To give Marines a reason for repairing power nodes, maybe those could provide am armour bonus in powered sections or the ability to seldomly revive some of the fallen comrades.
6) Gameplay is somewhat static, mission statement is clear and once the marines found the hive, it's live and let die. There are no surprises nor twists which the aliens could introduce. Letting a gorge build a second hive unnoticedly whould introduce some surprises and ensure it's not game over until the marines killed all hives and all aliens - which would be a propper mission because the marines are there to secure the station again (and remaining free running skulks are not what I'd call secure ^^)
7) You did a great job in balancing. As I recall, we had near 1:1 winning ratios. But still, the system forces you to join in evenly distributed teams. It would be great, if you could enable the possibility to join in unequal numbers of players per team. So one could decide to put a few good players into Aliens and a bigger rookie team in Marines (or the other way round)
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I mostly agree with Ineluki's points. Especially 4) 5) 6)
There should be 3 or 4 different beeping sounds instead of two.
The objective of killing the hive doesn't feel right to me in this mode. Once you find the hive the atmosphere falls flat and you're back to standard ns2 almost. I'd prefer an objective like escape or capture the flag.
Features like spikes were good...they make it feel more like a gauntlet. It would be nice if the gorge could lay traps like that.
Impressed with the flares too. Just make them more saturated red, they're a bit pale. Can you make them flicker?
Not sure if all marines should automatically get the sonar/radar item. They don't even have to equip anything...feels cheap.
The menus and messages are well designed and functional.
For alpha it's impressive overall.
Not sure if it's been suggested yet or if it's possible but as possible missions, escorting 1 exo to a safe zone or taking down 1 onos might be fun as alternatives to hunting and killing the hive.
Another idea could be to have proto labs or bonuses off-route that they need to decide whether to risk getting to.
Atmosphere of this mod is very cool ! But due to fast paced gameplay there is still too less tension / horror in the game.
Permanent death is nearly no penalty because of still too fast paced gameplay, feasible rushing and short game sessions.
Marines have too less HP and deal too much damage to be scared of the aliens. So there is no need in staying alive at all costs.
Longer game sessions offering other tactical options than rushing, and abandoning permanent death in favor of very long respawn times which are modified by tactical elements may be a feasible way to achieve tension and horror in the game.
<b>LONG Version</b>
As far as I get the intention of this mod, it is to introduce some tension and a tiny touch of horror to the game. By using atmospheric effects such as darkness, etc, this mod definitely does a better job than the original, but there are still some points, which do not directly contribute to this goal.
1) Marines die somewhat fast. While in normal horror games this is a feasible way to go, here it is not. Games are fast paced and hardly longer than 7 to 10 minutes, so death means nothing atm. New game, new luck.
2) So, the best way to ensure tension would be to ensure that the marines do want to stay alive. This could be achieved by longer games in which being dead is a penalty because one is not able to play. On the other hand, staying dead for too long is no penalty at all, because frustrated players will quit shortly after dying.
3) By penalizing players for dying, the game designer is also responsible to give the players the tools to stay alive. Removing the health status of the player's character from the HUD is in this way contraproductive to the horror/tension element. A player knowing he is nearly dying would built up tension and adapt its strategic play. Even more so when he lost lots of HP in the process of playing, because he knows, he wasn't dying on every encounter anyways.
This brings me to the conclusion, that games should be longer, marines should have more HP but deal less damage to the aliens, and their HP should be shown again. Furthermore I'd like to advocate penalization of player death by removing perma-death and introducing very long Marine respawn times.
<i><b>In greater detail:</i></b>
Although one of the original features of the mod is permanent marine death, I had some thoughts on the topic.
As I stated above, matches are a bit short for my taste. Hardly 10 minutes each. So I made some suggestions concerning elongation but then perma-death would be a bigger problem. As it is now, watching the remaining 3 to 5 minutes of a game is fun. Watching a game from death for an hour isn't. So I thought about a solution which additionally solves some of my above mentioned problems, especially lack of tactical variation / mission goals.
What about an infantry portal which is buyable at the armory under two conditions:
a) there is no other infantry portal in the game, and
b) the last infantry portal died at minimum 3 minutes ago
This infantry portal has the following properties:
1) It can be placed in any room but only within 10 meters from a power node. Also, the node has to be powered in order to let the portal work.
2) Its building time is extrordinary long. As lonely marine, this should take about 2 to 3 minutes, using a team it should be reduced accordingly.
3) Albeit its long building time, the infantry portal is a more or less weak structure, so its protection is of paramount import.
4) Marine respawn time should be very long (e.g. 2 minutes), but should decrease proportional to the number of running power nodes.
<i><b>In-game explanation: </i></b>
A TSF Infantry Portal , being a combination of high detail atomic plotter and neuro inductor, is a very complex piece of equippment. Therefore, it is prone to damage during transportation, and, based on this ground, it is futile to bring one with the troops. So it has to be constructed on site by nano robots (nanites). On destruction, which is achieved easily (so take caution), because of its complex nature, the specialized nanites have to be recollected at the armory facility which takes some time. Furthermore, restructuring of matter on an atomic level including such high detail needed to produce living matter and conciousness, takes an aweful lot of data processing and energy, which has to be conducted to the TSF Infantry Portal due to the space stations own energy relais. This is only feasible if and only if most of the stations power routes are used. Otherwise, the TSF Infantry Portal can not operate to its full potential which reduces reconstruction time dramatically. So take care, soldier !
<i><b>How does this improve gameplay ?</i></b>
1) While rushing in is still a feasible tactic for the marines, it is now only one of two options, i.e. the risky one.
2) Construction and maintaining of an infantry portal binds valuable human rescources to the preparation and protection of a base.
3) Maximising respawn rate requires securing of as much power nodes as possible. This ensures maximal survival probabilities but requires good team work and slows down marine expansion.
4) Marines have to calculate the trade offs between securing their base (and reviving their fallen comrades) and offering ambush possibilities and expansion to the aliens (e.g. building a secondary or third hive by the Gorge class).
5) For Aliens, rushing the Marine's base is still a feasible tactic, espeacially in the beginning, but now they have to be a bit more tactical because it is not only killing some marines but to prevent marine respawning through gnawing on lonely power nodes, luring marines into the darkness, and destroying their infantry portal. Through their ability to construct additional hives as well as their dark sight and their fast respawn rate, they are still competetive.
Maybe by these ideas, gameplay is moved from rushing/crushing in fast paced short games to surviving long enough in a fearful and hostile environment in order to gain the advantage over the aggressor.
Thank you for this feedback :).
The best part of your feedback is that you are right. Totally right.
There is a reason that games are "short" (5 minutes around). This is not a cooperative game only, but it's a PvP with an annoying death penalty.
And this is on this last point that you are right.
However! I don't want to abandon the death penalty. If marines are sure to respawn, the atmosphere becomes less oppressive.
Actually, packs (medpack/ammopack) and marine structures are randomly generated on the map, in order to give a "bonus" for marines who doesn't rush. At the same time, I generated some "walls" on the fastest way to the Hive (to not encourage marines to take this path.)
But despite of that, marines rush everytime :/. I must improve this part.
The IP idea is not bad. I had already thought about the possibility of an Infantry Portal (dropped randomly on the map), but this is very hard to balance.
I have in mind three other solutions to this problem, but that will take time to implement.
- Infantry Portal: The same idea as yours, but marines must search for it. The original idea is that the IP has a single use.
- "Secondary mission": This are not real "missions", but something small that marines can do. This is a "bigger" version of "packs/structures/infestation generation". For example: marines can build a small base to retrieve ammunition and heal wounds, before attacking the Hive.
- More missions: Instead of achieving one mission, marines must achieve several. Between each missions, marines can revive one or few of their friends (or heal wounds, etc...)
But despite these solutions, I need to find something to "occupy" dead marines, without encouraging suicide.
One idea I have is to turn them into an alien (in a smaller version) who attack their ex-friends.
For now, these are only ideas :). But it is true that this problem is very annoying. I'm going to work on it "soon".
We can talk about it on Steam if you want ;).
About other problems (no HUD for health, aliens vision, etc...), I noted some.
I have nothing more to say, you've said it all :).
Thank you for videos ;). I will add them on the workshop page.
See you later and have fun!
Changelog:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Friendlyfire penalty was reduced.
- Better atmosphere, less "un-realistic HUD" for marines.
- Sentry and observatory are randomly spawned on the map. Marines must repair the powernode to activate them.
- New tools for marines: The Flare launcher and the Nanoshield pack.
- Marines can buy a weapon AND a tool.
- Armory menu reworked.
- Mines can be armed on the infestation.
- Welder is nerfed.
- Hive HP reduced.
- Alien vision darker.
- Lerk and Fade are nerfed.
- Crag/Healspray/Regen for aliens are nerfed.
- Alien gestation time quicker.
- Some (technical) fix.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->