Marines can pretty much only win if aliens aren't destroying marine RTs actively enough. The recent build might change this and we have to wait and see.
[/quote]
Wouldn't giving marine Rt's more hp/A lengthen response time.
This is a screenshot from me in a random pub game. All of these guys are of decidedly average skill, given my play experience - the marines arent good or stacked, and my team is not good either. I may be self selecting a bit here, but this is pretty typical, WHATEVER THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME - a good half the alien team has not just a less than 1:1 ratio, but often you've got guys with no kills and numerous deaths, as here.
Explain to me how you expect to keep these guys as players. What will their experience be like when they encounter any semi decent marines with a shotgun? I'm astonished people disagree with the claim marines are fundamentally easier to play, fundamentally more forgiving to new players, and far less frustrating as a race. Things may change dramatically in 6v6; I don't know. But I do know the majority of the player base isn't 6v6ing, but they're 10v10 and 12v12ing.
But ya, the win:loss ratio is off according to ns2stats, and I cant rambo a hive as marine, so buff shotgun please.
First day for 239 Aliens lost alot of games locally.
It's back to team skill level now though, just took a day or two to get used to the whole 'marines get better performance giving an effectivness boost to current skill level' thing, it has happened alot since about 2 build befor release.
Just to note, on day 0 of release, Aliens got *SMASHED*, within a week, people were crying for an Alien nerf on the forums.
How I see it Aliens don't need nerfs but the marines need more tools to deal against them.
For an example, why not give the marines a sniper rifle that is really good against bigger and slower life forms (Onos, gorges) and bad against super fast maneuverable ones (skulks and fades)?
Or the ability to weld doors, so that you can counter the alien movement.
In my opinion, It's better to give something new, than just buff/ nurf.
Well I did say it would be against slower and bigger aliens (aka Onos). If a person can't aim at such a big target, then there is no amount of things that can help him. However, this is just a one suggestion. If we use our grey stuff in our heads, we can think of other interesting mechanics and stuff to iron the balance, which in my opinion is pretty good at the moment. At least that is how I see it. I've played many other games that are a lot more unbalanced than NS2 even to this day.
A sniper rifle does not fit the premise of this game at all. Cat packs and more mobile jetpacks (think NS1 but not as insane) would help solve the Onos problem, maybe even buffing the Exo's mobility slightly. But honestly I would like to see more skill involved in keeping the Onos alive. Whatever happened to the whole Bone Shield thing? Without any real defensive abilities, the only way to keep him viable is to give him shitloads of health like he has now which is extremely problematic when you have an Alien tech explosion and 3 Onos pop onto the field at once.
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aliens recap rts faster than marines? Same game, right? The cysts+the MASSIVE TIME it takes to build the resource tower, doesn't compare to 2 marines powerbuilding an extractor.
The most successful competitive online games are HIGHLY ACCESSIBLY (think COD and BF in FPS, SC in RTS).
The original Counterstrike wants to say hi.
That game is anything BUT accessible.
Yeah, you can jump in and play it, but you get your ass kicked for months until you L2P.
imo that's not true. I played CS to 1.6 (I think I started shortly before 1.0) a lot and it never was that hard. Sure, there were pro players mixed with normal players and noobs on the same pub servers, but the dominating players were very rarely driving you (as badder player) to ragequit or something. CS was easy to learn (buy weapons, get to love one pistol/rifle/sniper, ...) and in no way different to most other FPS games. aiming, proper bursting and strafing in and out of cover is all there is to learn (bunnyhopping and stuff like that is really pro game CS, really tough to master and shouldn't be the final goal for a normal pub player).
I think you can't compare NS1/2 to other (competitive) games that easy because you have 2 totally different races - and for aliens totally different playstyles for the lifeforms (marines in exo or jp is more or less the same). The only multiplayer game you can compare to NS1/2 is the Aliens (VS Predator) franchise afaik and that game doesn't have the whole RTS part. and this games felt also greatly unbalanced imo.
what I want to say: don't try to compare NS2 with COD/BF/CS or any competitive or non competitive game where you have MARINES vs MARINES (or ALIEN MARINES like in halo) because these games are easier to play and easier to balance.
but I get the point of the OP: NS2 should be fun in pubs, when it wants to be a sucessfull game. and it shouldn't be all about competition/competitiveness for that (most games aren't made to be competitive (I think this goes for CS aswell), they become competitive by the competitive players who play them) when it wants to be a game enjoyable for a majority of players. COD/BF and games like that may be not competitive, but at least BF bad company 2 is fun to play.
for me, NS1 and NS2 is also fun to play as it is right now (maybe before the recent shotgun changes, I'm not decided in that matter) and I hope, the devs find a proper balance for the game - between a majority of pub players, who can enjoy the game and get the hang of it and an other majority of competitive players who "exploit" the game to top the average skill cap.
TL:DR
NS is no CS (RTS/FPS mix with different races/playstyles not comparable to normal shooters)
NS is more a AvP (RTS still missing)
NS should be fun in pubs, and should be able to play competitive (like most games)
With the new patch I feel at least in 12v12 which I play alot the game is fairly good balanced.
Most games are decided within the first 3 minutes anyway which clearly has nothing to do with balance.
The other games are mostly won by the team with the better players.
If anything I feel like it's more dangerous for aliens now to be passive. If marines can tech up on 4 rts and 2 Tech points it's not a autowin for aliens anymore...
What are passive aliens doing? Be afk? Full team going gorge and building clog phalluses in the hive room? Camping in remote rooms where no marines are coming?
The definition of passive marines is marines secureing rts and building outposts instead of attacking the alien rts. That does not seem to be such a terrible thing to do, yet it regularly loses you games.
I think it is a big detriment for the gameplay that there is no calm phase in the beginning where both teams have to build up - or go all in and rush but suffer the consequences if the rush fails.
What are passive aliens doing? Be afk? Full team going gorge and building clog phalluses in the hive room? Camping in remote rooms where no marines are coming?
The definition of passive marines is marines secureing rts and building outposts instead of attacking the alien rts.
I think it is a big detriment for the gameplay that there is no calm phase in the beginning where both teams have to build up - or go all in and rush but suffer the consequences if the rush fails.
I think you could go one further and argue, why is it, that a marine needs to exactly as aggressive as the aliens? It's totally counter-intuitive to design. The slower, and logically long ranged marines, have to be just as quick and hectic as aliens?
One could make the argument that it's a game of resources, but clearly something doesn't gel well enough in the game's design. The repercussions of this are a need to always have a phase gate (lack of strategic options), and always pay dearly for not being able to be aggressive enough, or defensive enough. Aliens don't ever need to toe the line like the marines' do.
What are passive aliens doing? Be afk? Full team going gorge and building clog phalluses in the hive room? Camping in remote rooms where no marines are coming?
The definition of passive marines is marines secureing rts and building outposts instead of attacking the alien rts.
I think it is a big detriment for the gameplay that there is no calm phase in the beginning where both teams have to build up - or go all in and rush but suffer the consequences if the rush fails.
I think you could go one further and argue, why is it, that a marine needs to exactly as aggressive as the aliens? It's totally counter-intuitive to design. The slower, and logically long ranged marines, have to be just as quick and hectic as aliens?
One could make the argument that it's a game of resources, but clearly something doesn't gel well enough in the game's design. The repercussions of this are a need to always have a phase gate (lack of strategic options), and always pay dearly for not being able to be aggressive enough, or defensive enough. Aliens don't ever need to toe the line like the marines' do.
This is not asymmetry, this is frustration.
I think the answer to this is that both sides must be aggressive because the alternative is turtling. Both sides need resources as you've said, and resources are tied to expansion. It's easier to attack than to defend, so when it comes to conflicting attempts at expansion, aggression beats caution if you don't get your head cut off while you do it. Various tools like Drifters and Beacon make aggressive expansion much less risky for both teams, encouraging that style of play.
If a Marine Commander decides to leave 5 men at each Extractor, there's nothing stopping the Aliens from sending 8 in to take out one while half of the Marine forces just sit around scratching their butts. If each of those 5 men move forward to attack Harvesters, however, the Kham must split his forces to respond to the threat; if he fails to do so, both harvesters die and the Marine team beacons back to do it all over again. The defensive strategy ends in lost structures and compromised positions with no clear gain, while the offensive one has one of two more-beneficial outcomes: either it protects the Marine RTs as well or better than the defensive one, or it inflicts a corresponding attrition on the aliens.
Things like Celerity, Drifters, Beacon, and PGs all enable this hyper-aggressive play. In essence, I guess you can say that Marines need to be as aggressive as aliens because the game was designed that way. Aggression forces the enemy to respond to your actions, not the other way around. If you wanted Marines to stop rushing enemy positions constantly, you need to remove the ability to instantly beacon them back to respond to danger.
The alternative to aggression is not turtling. If the marines are locking down 3 hives in early game they are not turtling. Sadly if try to do that, or even if they pull it off, and neglect harrassing alien rts, they will most likely lose the game.
Imagine how boring SC2 would be if only rushing would be a viable strategy, and the only counter to rushing would be rushing yourself. When cheese fails anyone? There should be drawbacks for being too aggressive as well as for being too defensive. That is when mind games and the whole meta game comes into play. Right now, there is no such thing in ns2 because all you can do is rush, rush, rush.
I've found playing with a few (or even just one) really aggressive marines who spends the whole game focusing on killing RTs and upgrades really changes the game. It really grinds the aliens gears when they have to keep running back to defend RTs, which I think shows how unusual that playstyle is to them.
Is that entirely true though? That rushing is the only viable method?
I've seen/done Marines timing attacks with JP/SG to snipe a hive mid-game. Really sets a different pace for the game, or outright leads to the Aliens defeat. The trick was just to secure a second Tech Point fast enough.
The alternative to aggression is not turtling. If the marines are locking down 3 hives in early game they are not turtling. Sadly if try to do that, or even if they pull it off, and neglect harrassing alien rts, they will most likely lose the game.
Imagine how boring SC2 would be if only rushing would be a viable strategy, and the only counter to rushing would be rushing yourself. When cheese fails anyone? There should be drawbacks for being too aggressive as well as for being too defensive. That is when mind games and the whole meta game comes into play. Right now, there is no such thing in ns2 because all you can do is rush, rush, rush.
Well, there is more of this concern for aliens: constant rushing can cost you eggs, which can leave you open to egg lock or having to spawn lots from shifts which is costly. The marines, however, don't have a similar situation: a dead marine at the start of the game has cost you very little: the only thing it can cost you is map control. Clearly map control is top priority, so it's better to die in the alien hive than in your own territory. In this case, your death costs essentially nothing.
I'd like to see a little more risk involved in all out rushing (for both teams) to ensure more varied gameplay as far as possible!
Is that entirely true though? That rushing is the only viable method?
I've seen/done Marines timing attacks with JP/SG to snipe a hive mid-game. Really sets a different pace for the game, or outright leads to the Aliens defeat. The trick was just to secure a second Tech Point fast enough.
I have seen that too, next thing I saw after the hive went down was the mainbase getting biled by 2 gorges, game over.
The alternative to aggression is not turtling. If the marines are locking down 3 hives in early game they are not turtling. Sadly if try to do that, or even if they pull it off, and neglect harrassing alien rts, they will most likely lose the game.
Imagine how boring SC2 would be if only rushing would be a viable strategy, and the only counter to rushing would be rushing yourself. When cheese fails anyone? There should be drawbacks for being too aggressive as well as for being too defensive. That is when mind games and the whole meta game comes into play. Right now, there is no such thing in ns2 because all you can do is rush, rush, rush.
There are mechanics that punish for playing too aggressive?! Most obvious example: If aliens rush too hard and fail they get egglocked. Also overextending as marines in most cases costs you dearly.
Also I don't think you SC2 example works ar all. I mean, every terran will tell you, that if you do not constantly harrass zerg players from the get-go, you will loose. I actually think much of the game design of NS2 is "inspired" from SC/SC2.
Both games are about pushing your enemy so hard that he begins to make mistakes. They are even more about getting more and more bases and ressources so that you can outtech/outproduce your opponent. Thats just why you really can't play SC2 or NS2 passively, because if your opponent realizes that he will just outexpand you and you will get steamrolled.
There is one major differences between SC2 and NS2 however, but is mostly about how the player perceives the game.
In SC2 you often realize after 5-8 minutes that you fucked up. Be it that you got rushed or failed a rush or you suddently realize you got 5 cannons in your base. In SC2 you then say "gg" (or ragequite or "fuck you noob") and get into the next game.
In NS2 I also very often realize the game is lost about 2 mins into the game. But in NS2 we apparently like to play.....it....out....for......ages....
So this results in the losses in NS2 being waaay more painful
Is that entirely true though? That rushing is the only viable method?
I've seen/done Marines timing attacks with JP/SG to snipe a hive mid-game. Really sets a different pace for the game, or outright leads to the Aliens defeat. The trick was just to secure a second Tech Point fast enough.
I have seen that too, next thing I saw after the hive went down was the mainbase getting biled by 2 gorges, game over.
GG for not having a marine defend your 2 bases? That's a great example of how being too aggressive has its weakness.
I didn't read all the responses, but as some people [may] have astutely pointed out, NS2 is a game not of guns versus teeth, but of extractors versus harvesters.
It's much easier for aliens to harass marine extractors than for marines to harass alien harvesters.
An alien chomping on an extractor sees a marine [or marines] coming: he simply disengages, hops around wildly and runs to the nearest vent.
A marine axing a harvester sees an alien [or aliens] coming: he's caught with his pants down.
Given my initial point [i.e. that NS2 is a game of res control], the mobility of aliens gives them a decided advantage in this arena. Take Veil, for instance. As soon as skylights and topographical are built, by the time marines get to Overlook and C-12: "YOU'RE BASE IS UNDER ATTACK." Checking the map reveals both Topo and Skylights to to blinking, and while running back isn't necessarily futile, one can imagine the most likely outcomes: upon arrival, the RT has just exploded, and from the shrapnel, a skulk comes flying out a) to escape, or b) moving in an erratic pattern to disorient you and then attack you (or both).
Also, as others have already said, this game is inversely proportional for both sides in terms of time. I find that it's most easy to explain with a few quotes from last night's Friday Night Show Match between dn and All-In. Bitey pointed out that one of the alien players had about 5 minutes before he had enough res to evolve into an onos, to which Hugh responded [and I'm paraphrasing], 'The marines basically have 5 minutes to really do something before this gets ugly.'
I.e., the longer the game wears on, the more decidedly alien it begins to lean. The marines, in most cases, though not all, must end the game reasonably quickly before the onos explosion arrives, otherwise, it will get much more difficult.
Regardless, I still enjoy marines quite a bit. I'm one of the few that doesn't really mind getting stomped/losing every game, although lately, I've been going aliens much more often because I'm attempting to practice Fade.
I think you are confusing being aggressive (constantly harrassing alien rts in early game) with teching up at 2 techpoints, then making a timing attack on a hive.
By the time you have let the aliens free reign of the map, you will need all your marines to pull off such an attack on a hive.
For aliens to get egglocked, the marines have to rush to their hive themselfes. It ends up in rush vs rush. If after successfully defending multiple early skulkrushes the marines decide to get lots of rts up and not press the attack on the hive, the aliens are not at any disadvantage - the khammander was expanding by himself the whole time.
And in case you get 2 marines to egglock the hive, while 2 skulks survive the battle in marine base, the commandstation falls always faster than a hive - this is where the balance is leaning towards the aliens.
Comments
[/quote]
Wouldn't giving marine Rt's more hp/A lengthen response time.
Explain to me how you expect to keep these guys as players. What will their experience be like when they encounter any semi decent marines with a shotgun? I'm astonished people disagree with the claim marines are fundamentally easier to play, fundamentally more forgiving to new players, and far less frustrating as a race. Things may change dramatically in 6v6; I don't know. But I do know the majority of the player base isn't 6v6ing, but they're 10v10 and 12v12ing.
But ya, the win:loss ratio is off according to ns2stats, and I cant rambo a hive as marine, so buff shotgun please.
It's back to team skill level now though, just took a day or two to get used to the whole 'marines get better performance giving an effectivness boost to current skill level' thing, it has happened alot since about 2 build befor release.
Just to note, on day 0 of release, Aliens got *SMASHED*, within a week, people were crying for an Alien nerf on the forums.
For an example, why not give the marines a sniper rifle that is really good against bigger and slower life forms (Onos, gorges) and bad against super fast maneuverable ones (skulks and fades)?
Or the ability to weld doors, so that you can counter the alien movement.
In my opinion, It's better to give something new, than just buff/ nurf.
More options the better.
imo that's not true. I played CS to 1.6 (I think I started shortly before 1.0) a lot and it never was that hard. Sure, there were pro players mixed with normal players and noobs on the same pub servers, but the dominating players were very rarely driving you (as badder player) to ragequit or something. CS was easy to learn (buy weapons, get to love one pistol/rifle/sniper, ...) and in no way different to most other FPS games. aiming, proper bursting and strafing in and out of cover is all there is to learn (bunnyhopping and stuff like that is really pro game CS, really tough to master and shouldn't be the final goal for a normal pub player).
I think you can't compare NS1/2 to other (competitive) games that easy because you have 2 totally different races - and for aliens totally different playstyles for the lifeforms (marines in exo or jp is more or less the same). The only multiplayer game you can compare to NS1/2 is the Aliens (VS Predator) franchise afaik and that game doesn't have the whole RTS part. and this games felt also greatly unbalanced imo.
what I want to say: don't try to compare NS2 with COD/BF/CS or any competitive or non competitive game where you have MARINES vs MARINES (or ALIEN MARINES like in halo) because these games are easier to play and easier to balance.
but I get the point of the OP: NS2 should be fun in pubs, when it wants to be a sucessfull game. and it shouldn't be all about competition/competitiveness for that (most games aren't made to be competitive (I think this goes for CS aswell), they become competitive by the competitive players who play them) when it wants to be a game enjoyable for a majority of players. COD/BF and games like that may be not competitive, but at least BF bad company 2 is fun to play.
for me, NS1 and NS2 is also fun to play as it is right now (maybe before the recent shotgun changes, I'm not decided in that matter) and I hope, the devs find a proper balance for the game - between a majority of pub players, who can enjoy the game and get the hang of it and an other majority of competitive players who "exploit" the game to top the average skill cap.
TL:DR
NS is no CS (RTS/FPS mix with different races/playstyles not comparable to normal shooters)
NS is more a AvP (RTS still missing)
NS should be fun in pubs, and should be able to play competitive (like most games)
Day 0, the ratio was 50/50. One week later with zero balance changes, that ratio went to 60/40 in favor of Aliens.
When Aliens and Marines learn to play, Aliens are stronger.
Most games are decided within the first 3 minutes anyway which clearly has nothing to do with balance.
The other games are mostly won by the team with the better players.
If anything I feel like it's more dangerous for aliens now to be passive. If marines can tech up on 4 rts and 2 Tech points it's not a autowin for aliens anymore...
The definition of passive marines is marines secureing rts and building outposts instead of attacking the alien rts. That does not seem to be such a terrible thing to do, yet it regularly loses you games.
I think it is a big detriment for the gameplay that there is no calm phase in the beginning where both teams have to build up - or go all in and rush but suffer the consequences if the rush fails.
One could make the argument that it's a game of resources, but clearly something doesn't gel well enough in the game's design. The repercussions of this are a need to always have a phase gate (lack of strategic options), and always pay dearly for not being able to be aggressive enough, or defensive enough. Aliens don't ever need to toe the line like the marines' do.
This is not asymmetry, this is frustration.
Ever notice the people that bash on the USA are usually from third world countries? lol
If a Marine Commander decides to leave 5 men at each Extractor, there's nothing stopping the Aliens from sending 8 in to take out one while half of the Marine forces just sit around scratching their butts. If each of those 5 men move forward to attack Harvesters, however, the Kham must split his forces to respond to the threat; if he fails to do so, both harvesters die and the Marine team beacons back to do it all over again. The defensive strategy ends in lost structures and compromised positions with no clear gain, while the offensive one has one of two more-beneficial outcomes: either it protects the Marine RTs as well or better than the defensive one, or it inflicts a corresponding attrition on the aliens.
Things like Celerity, Drifters, Beacon, and PGs all enable this hyper-aggressive play. In essence, I guess you can say that Marines need to be as aggressive as aliens because the game was designed that way. Aggression forces the enemy to respond to your actions, not the other way around. If you wanted Marines to stop rushing enemy positions constantly, you need to remove the ability to instantly beacon them back to respond to danger.
Lighten up. Ever notice how butthurt people get on the forums?
Imagine how boring SC2 would be if only rushing would be a viable strategy, and the only counter to rushing would be rushing yourself. When cheese fails anyone? There should be drawbacks for being too aggressive as well as for being too defensive. That is when mind games and the whole meta game comes into play. Right now, there is no such thing in ns2 because all you can do is rush, rush, rush.
I've seen/done Marines timing attacks with JP/SG to snipe a hive mid-game. Really sets a different pace for the game, or outright leads to the Aliens defeat. The trick was just to secure a second Tech Point fast enough.
Ever notice the people that bash on the USA are usually from third world countries? lol
Ever notice how butthurt people get on the forums?
Well, there is more of this concern for aliens: constant rushing can cost you eggs, which can leave you open to egg lock or having to spawn lots from shifts which is costly. The marines, however, don't have a similar situation: a dead marine at the start of the game has cost you very little: the only thing it can cost you is map control. Clearly map control is top priority, so it's better to die in the alien hive than in your own territory. In this case, your death costs essentially nothing.
I'd like to see a little more risk involved in all out rushing (for both teams) to ensure more varied gameplay as far as possible!
I have seen that too, next thing I saw after the hive went down was the mainbase getting biled by 2 gorges, game over.
There are mechanics that punish for playing too aggressive?! Most obvious example: If aliens rush too hard and fail they get egglocked. Also overextending as marines in most cases costs you dearly.
Also I don't think you SC2 example works ar all. I mean, every terran will tell you, that if you do not constantly harrass zerg players from the get-go, you will loose. I actually think much of the game design of NS2 is "inspired" from SC/SC2.
Both games are about pushing your enemy so hard that he begins to make mistakes. They are even more about getting more and more bases and ressources so that you can outtech/outproduce your opponent. Thats just why you really can't play SC2 or NS2 passively, because if your opponent realizes that he will just outexpand you and you will get steamrolled.
There is one major differences between SC2 and NS2 however, but is mostly about how the player perceives the game.
In SC2 you often realize after 5-8 minutes that you fucked up. Be it that you got rushed or failed a rush or you suddently realize you got 5 cannons in your base. In SC2 you then say "gg" (or ragequite or "fuck you noob") and get into the next game.
In NS2 I also very often realize the game is lost about 2 mins into the game. But in NS2 we apparently like to play.....it....out....for......ages....
So this results in the losses in NS2 being waaay more painful
GG for not having a marine defend your 2 bases? That's a great example of how being too aggressive has its weakness.
Hit the nail on the head.
It's much easier for aliens to harass marine extractors than for marines to harass alien harvesters.
An alien chomping on an extractor sees a marine [or marines] coming: he simply disengages, hops around wildly and runs to the nearest vent.
A marine axing a harvester sees an alien [or aliens] coming: he's caught with his pants down.
Given my initial point [i.e. that NS2 is a game of res control], the mobility of aliens gives them a decided advantage in this arena. Take Veil, for instance. As soon as skylights and topographical are built, by the time marines get to Overlook and C-12: "YOU'RE BASE IS UNDER ATTACK." Checking the map reveals both Topo and Skylights to to blinking, and while running back isn't necessarily futile, one can imagine the most likely outcomes: upon arrival, the RT has just exploded, and from the shrapnel, a skulk comes flying out a) to escape, or b) moving in an erratic pattern to disorient you and then attack you (or both).
Also, as others have already said, this game is inversely proportional for both sides in terms of time. I find that it's most easy to explain with a few quotes from last night's Friday Night Show Match between dn and All-In. Bitey pointed out that one of the alien players had about 5 minutes before he had enough res to evolve into an onos, to which Hugh responded [and I'm paraphrasing], 'The marines basically have 5 minutes to really do something before this gets ugly.'
I.e., the longer the game wears on, the more decidedly alien it begins to lean. The marines, in most cases, though not all, must end the game reasonably quickly before the onos explosion arrives, otherwise, it will get much more difficult.
Regardless, I still enjoy marines quite a bit. I'm one of the few that doesn't really mind getting stomped/losing every game, although lately, I've been going aliens much more often because I'm attempting to practice Fade.
By the time you have let the aliens free reign of the map, you will need all your marines to pull off such an attack on a hive.
For aliens to get egglocked, the marines have to rush to their hive themselfes. It ends up in rush vs rush. If after successfully defending multiple early skulkrushes the marines decide to get lots of rts up and not press the attack on the hive, the aliens are not at any disadvantage - the khammander was expanding by himself the whole time.
And in case you get 2 marines to egglock the hive, while 2 skulks survive the battle in marine base, the commandstation falls always faster than a hive - this is where the balance is leaning towards the aliens.