In my opinion, aliens should be hard to spot visually if they are standing still at a distance. The difficulty in tracking strafe jumping skulks comes from many factors, like how they animate when clipping walls, players, and other aliens, as well as personal FPS problems and general latency issues. I agree that the marine models are kind of bland, but there is always the option of installing custom models from the workshop that make them brighter and easier to see.
Alien vision helps my FPS in addition to easing the task of tracking marine players. If considered unfair for aliens, it could be balanced by adding a slight energy penalty while it is active.
Aliens can not shoot back, that is what separates NS2 from many other FPSs. It is an important part of the game for aliens to be able to close the distance with the marine before getting shot in the face.
Yeah, but being able to close the distance is not the same thing as being able to land bites.
Again, aim is a factor.
When did I say it wasn't? The point was aliens should not be overly easy to see.
Just like an LMG is clearly superior to a pistol MOST of the time, alien vision is clearly superior to normal vision MOST of the time. That doesn't make the pistol or normal vision totally obsolete though.
At what point in time is normal vision superior to AV?
Just like an LMG is clearly superior to a pistol MOST of the time, alien vision is clearly superior to normal vision MOST of the time. That doesn't make the pistol or normal vision totally obsolete though.
At what point in time is normal vision superior to AV?
When trying to find the hole in glass.
Like a bird into a window.
Just like an LMG is clearly superior to a pistol MOST of the time, alien vision is clearly superior to normal vision MOST of the time. That doesn't make the pistol or normal vision totally obsolete though.
At what point in time is normal vision superior to AV?
When did I say it wasn't? The point was aliens should not be overly easy to see.
How am I supposed to infer that point from a single sentence?
Next time, read the post you are quoting. Normal vision is better for target differentiation. When you have a target-rich environment like an enemy base, or even your own base under attack, Alien vision makes it harder to spot marines against the almost all orange backdrop. And again, transparency including glass, phase gates (is it active?) and bile bomb/spit.
Yup, vision obscuring is pretty heavy in NS2. You have that in FPS games like CS, e.g. in the form of smoke/flash grenades, but they're used sparingly. If NS2 was an MMO instead, then I could understand the large amount of effects, shadows, etc. on-screen. Since this is a FPS, we're handicapping themselves by enabling shadows, ambient occlusion, atmospherics, rich infestation, and by disabling alien vision. It's not that I don't appreciate these graphics settings, but you know what I mean.
Regarding alien vision, it might be a good idea to implement a certain distance in which alien vision works. Past that range, the game might be rendered as it's normally seen. Alien vision becomes a lantern instead, balancing farsighted vision with marines'.
Next time, read the post you are quoting. Normal vision is better for target differentiation. When you have a target-rich environment like an enemy base, or even your own base under attack, Alien vision makes it harder to spot marines against the almost all orange backdrop. And again, transparency including glass, phase gates (is it active?) and bile bomb/spit.
I've never had a problem telling a marine apart from a fade/skulk/onos/observatory.
I will concede that it is harder to see if a window is broken/a phase gate is active, but the holes in windows don't change, and you can tell if the phase is up if you're close enough to it, which you should be if you're planning on taking it down.
Hah, you think I'd be able to by know, huh? I guess I have more macro knowledge of the maps, rather than which pane, out of a possible 3, has the hole.
Also, suggestive quote.
Well, there's only like three maps with windows that you can go through anyways.
I really appreciate your first post in the topic, Strofix. I naturally disagree with you entirely on the point that states that aiming is not a skill just because it's a practical one, but it's really refreshing to read someone else's point of view that doesn't involve insults.
I could however further explain why i believe this by replying to your other post:
I mean, if you had to divvy up the overall "percentage" of focus given to three gameplay elements, namely aim, movement, and tactics, how would you do it for these three games?
Quake 3
Counter-Strike
Natural-Selection 1/2
For starters; the game modes i competed in in UT are called Instagib DM and Instagib CTF. Instagib is a mode in which there are no powerups whatsoever and all players only carry a single weapon that is direct-hit from any distance, has unlimited ammo and that can fire only once a second. This essentially makes iDM a sniper-fest minus the scopes and the camping. Twitchy hand-movements, a mouse-sensitivity setting individually perfected down to the third decimal (no joke), and the highest demands for quick reflexes in the e-sports world. iDM = 100% aim. If you miss a single shot, you're dead. Movement was no obstacle whatsoever to the really good aimers back then.
As i see it, this is where the true champions of FPS gaming came from and will remain. There's nothing but you, an enemy, two identical weapons on a symmetrical map. No advantages whatsoever. Anyone can learn tactics and plan this and that. But the greatest aimers are (or at least were) less than 20 the world over.
iCTF has the same weapons-system though with teams of four or five that involves capturing the other team's flag. This of course requires movement, though more in terms of communication and co-ordination with the team of which path to chose depending on where the enemy is. My role in the teams i played with was usually the mid-fielder, who's task it is to cover our flag-carrier and shoot down the enemy flag-carrier, thus in large only requiring aim. I played this part not because i lack the ability to plan tactics, but because i had the fastest and most accurate hands in Europe. Putting the right man in the right spot is obviously an important part of any battle.
Could i had done this if i didn't clearly see the enemy the split-second he came around a corner? Of course not. My skills would never had been discovered if it wasn't for games such as UT. NS2 for one certainly isn't about head-shots or one-shot shock rifles, so i do realize that i'm not exactly "at home" in this game. That doesn't necessarily mean that i don't have a voice concerning the unfair advantage of orange pillars representing the enemies during alien vision.
The only two elements in CS that needs to be taken into consideration of the aim vs movement vs tactics debate is the sound of footsteps and well-placed campers. The camping-spots are known by all who compete, so it's more of a game of faking-out the enemy team than it is to shoot the enemy while you're partly invisible. The best aimers easily head-shot campers and strafers alike, one-on-one. However, with team-work you can of course ensure that you and a team-mate get LOS over an enemy at the same time, thus doubling your chances of surviving. But still, once you and the enemy see each other in a competitive match, that battle's over in 0.5 seconds. So movement isn't really applicable here. Though tactics is.
Just thought i could help giving some input on these matters.
For the record, i've seen quite a few competitive matches in modern FPS games since i quit. And your theory of modern games being a lot less about aiming is at least practically easy to confirm, because today's FPS champions would have been absolutely battered if they stepped into a time-machine and faced someone like me back then. The people who win today's e-sports championships make me drop my jaw in how little practical aiming-skill it requires to get a big ol' trophy from a couple of skirts. That's neither insult nor boast. Ask any old UT or CS champion what they think of today's FPS tournaments and you'll receive a similar reply even from the most neutral person.
You may think that tactics and planning are more important, and in todays games they certainly may be, but nothing takes more work and time to perfect than aim. Nothing. That's why i consider it the most honorable and respectable talents of gaming. If you don't consider this a skill, i don't even know what the heck has happened to the FPS genre since i quit. FPS was that one genre that always was about practical skill. Not about planning or taking your time. That's what RTS was for.
*snip*
Your simply comparing apples and oranges. Your comparing a game that is symmetrical and about 1 shotting to a game that is asymmetrical on purpose.
Not everyone wants to point and click on a big badly textured red blob over and over and the evolution of fps games has shown this.
As a traditional RTS player, I'd personally like to see the reliance on common FPS-skills (e.g. reaction time, enemy identification, tracking/aiming) lessened
Next time, read the post you are quoting. Normal vision is better for target differentiation. When you have a target-rich environment like an enemy base, or even your own base under attack, Alien vision makes it harder to spot marines against the almost all orange backdrop. And again, transparency including glass, phase gates (is it active?) and bile bomb/spit.
I've never had a problem telling a marine apart from a fade/skulk/onos/observatory.
I will concede that it is harder to see if a window is broken/a phase gate is active, but the holes in windows don't change, and you can tell if the phase is up if you're close enough to it, which you should be if you're planning on taking it down.
How about seeing a marine against a building (or hive)? Both are the same bright orange, you are better off using normal vision to spot the marine.
Alien vision is better like 95% of the time, but normal vision is still useful enough that no one would want them to take it away entirely either, so it's not completely obsolete.
Come on, guys.... did you forget how to detect movement?
Humans excel at sensing movement even when the object is partially obscured. A buncha scientists even wrote a bunch of papers on it (and of course wrote in a bunch of guesswork on the evolution side of things).
As you may have figured out already, i as an old FPS gamer consider that clearly seeing the enemy is way more important than realism. How fun would a shooter be if a big part of the reason why you couldn't become very good at it was because the enemies simply were too difficult to see? I believe that NS2 is somewhere in-between in this aspect. It's not a disaster thanks to alien vision and scans, but it would definitely feel like more of a battle of aim (which typically is the practical and fun-to-learn skill that define the winners and loser in FPS games) if changes were made that took away the aliens' exaggerated enemy light-up during alien vision and that instead made both marines and aliens simply more visible.
This is where I have to depart from this train of thought. While I accept your perspective on the matter, and appreciate your skill and experience with regards to this topic, I personally do not like the overemphasis placed on aim in many of today's online shooters. When games were simpler, and hardware could only handle the most basic of functionality in a game, aim was all we had. There was simply you and a bunch of other dudes, and you all had guns and a crosshair, and the best aim won. That was fine for the time, but things have changed now.
Many people think that there are so called "skill equalisers" which ultimately detract from the paramount skill of aim, things like vision obscuration, massive health pools, asymmetric weapon match ups etc. In my opinion it is quite the reverse. Aim is the skill equaliser for intelligent and tactical play, and in my opinion, aim is featuring less and less in shooters every year.
The problem I have with aim is that its just so basic, so primitive. That isn't to say that its easy, or that I could simply have god like aiming if I wanted to. However, its akin to, for a rough example, someone who can lift a really heavy weight. Sure, the weight is damn heavy, and no way in hell I could ever lift it, and congratulations to them for being able to, but is it a skill? To me it isn't, because its entirely physical, and humans are intellectual beings. The true magic happens in our brain, the way we out think others, rather than simply move a mouse better than they can.
That, I suppose, is simply just another form of aiming though, the "predictive aimer", which is not your typical knee jerk reaction aimer. I, for example, have pretty bad aim, yet I still kill quite efficiently and on a large scale (pub hero inc) because I practice a lot of predictive aiming. Luckily enough, predictive aim has a very low reliance on being able to clearly see your enemy.
Just my (perhaps ignorant) 2 cents on a topic which I also think quite a lot about.
That is just plain ridiculous. Aim is every thing in a FPS. Want proof its called AIM BOT. Even playing against good players with on point shooting it is not fun; hey look turn corner as skulk boom insta death.
Now in regards to alien vision I agree with you, it helps out a ton. I used it in NS1 for the same reason, it is just plain hard some times to glance at a skulk or marine that is not moving and notice them. Just think about camouflage you want it to match the back ground colors so it is harder for you to be seen.
The 120 hertz monitor to me seems pointless since you will not ever be above 70 FPS during game play. Wait like 2-3 generation of CPU's maybe then but by that time 4K monitors will be standard.
How about seeing a marine against a building (or hive)? Both are the same bright orange, you are better off using normal vision to spot the marine.
Alien vision is better like 95% of the time, but normal vision is still useful enough that no one would want them to take it away entirely either, so it's not completely obsolete.
Yeah, 120hz doesn't do much if you aren't running more than 60fps. Still nice to have for other games though.
FTFY- Anything above traditional 60fps is till more frames shown per second on a 120hz than a 60hz. Personally, this is a full 33 min marine side run with exos and macs.
Wouldn't be unreasonable for highly overclocked i5 2500k or better to hit close to 100fps average and thus benefit from a 120hz greatly, this notion that the game can't reach over 60 fps is clearly uncalled for.
To paraphrase Valve, "Getting killed by things you can't see is no fun." (Don't reply with boomers, that game is designed so that it requires a cascade of errors to kill you.)
Yes, the color scheme is so desaturated that it makes the game look very, very flat. Even in "bright areas", I had such a hard time seeing that I wrote a command line utility that would change the desktop gamma before and after the game.
Compare the look to a game like Left 4 Dead. Valve designs game so that players stand out and they explicitly worked on this part of the game. Both games are designed with very similar goals and mechanisms, but only one of these games does it well. Guess who said "we were able to define a stylistic look that balances visual drama with clear readability for players."
Myself coming from Q3 Instagib and CS think that Alien vision is not really a problem. In Q3 it was normal set up the game in a way so that it actually looked quite like NS2 alien vision.(Textures so low that they were grey/brown mud and bright neon green enemies).
However I would not like skulks to be seen as easy by marines, because hiding and ambushes ARE a feature and no accidental thing.
However I agree that it seems kind of moronic to put much effort in disorienting and obscuring the ling of sight for aliens (bite animation) on behalf of "immerson" just to negate these effects with Alien vision which is a have-to. I mean, not turining it on as Alien in fights is stupid. There is no other way to put it.
At the same time I really do not like Alien vision. I like to enjoy the games I play, but I certainly do not enjoy the ass-ugly view of the game I have to play everytime I switch on Aliens vision.
I think it would be best to make Aien vision more beautiful by leaving the overall levels more as they naturally are and just highlighting the marines in a less ugly and offensive way than right now. If this would make alien aming harder, you could still reduce the size of the Alien mouths.
Plz UWE, consider this because Alien vision makes your game magnitudes more ugly and this cannot really be your intend?!
Vision is a massive factor in this game with gorge spit, bile bomb, spores and umbra, flashlight atmospherics. Skulks are much harder to track because the environments are darker and more detailed than ns1. Fades also have semicloaking in Blink.
Ns2 could use some in-game brightness/gamma options.
Completely agree about vision obscuring, it's ironic that only single player games normally have this much "immersion" since you're not playing against real people so it tries to engage your mind in other ways, sound quietening on low health (Really fucking stupid mechanic I utterly fucking hate 'Oh I'm at half HP better lose half my hearing at the same time'), lerks gas being solid as fuck, gorge and bile overlays, weapon models being obtuse as fuck (th-thanks ammo hud on weapons, even mines, now I can't get rid of the models without a floating hud, immershun), weapon models having 'pop out' animations which makes it counter intuitive to switch from pistol to LMG since you spend a good 1 - 1.5 seconds putting a weapon away and drawing it back out again which is a total 180 from old NS1 shooting, pistol to pick a skulk off or damage and LMG to sweep, now LMG and oh shit pistol wait wait wait bang bang bang bang or script bangbangbang bangbangbang.
But implying the horrible Q3A precedence of no fun allowed shit stains for map models or CS 1.5 setting of 640x480 so the models are bigger with 0.7 sens is almost just as bad, running powerstrip in NS1 to remove all dark spots especially with CRT monitors is just as rampant as fluro models in NS2 are now, i.e. every fuck and their cat is nearly using them. I would agree new players will benefit greatly from running fluros to begin with, the movement animation in this game is fucking horrible and when skulks can literally change direction at full speed at any point in time makes it really awkward, not withstanding the fact everything is the same 3 colours and each room needs 100 different light sources since it seems rooms have no default gamma to see through.
Watching the streams of some of the best players in pub I've never seen so many overshots and spray and pray from "the best" players, it's obvious the immersion is hindering the game play in spades when people investing 1000+ hours at the top of the pile still can't reliably shoot down 3-4 skulks per LMG mag and pick off 2 skulks with a pistol, while that wasn't possible 100% of the time in NS1 it certainly wasn't unusual to see the better shooters pull these feats off in pubs/scrims all the time, much like 1 person in CS spraying down 4-5 people in a rush on 1 mag, clutch plays don't exist in NS2.
Not sure what the solution is exactly but something needs to change with models or introduce a gamma/brightness slider at least, using fluros for a week or two helped my aim incredibly but it was obvious playing from game to game on and off I was making kills I couldn't without it because I either couldn't flat out see shit or it was just too obscured to track without it, haven't used fluros in a month or so now and I get the same scores as before with them but it's frustrating playing on default sometimes, rooms like lava falls/conduit in refinery are a fucking nightmare no matter how much you play with display settings or use outside programs like RadeonHD or sweetFX, the game just feels bad trying to track aim half the time across creep/dark areas/lights/warping or stuttering models.
Good to see Savant shit posting as usual, the major disadvantage of AV is that it completely drops off at a distance, a very real distance in a lot of maps from res node to doorway, stuff will not light up if you rely on AV at a distance before it's too late and you're pistoled. You know, that asymmetrical range vs melee argument tossed around everyday, disadvantage.
tl;dr: It's bad and feels bad to aim in NS2 thanks to colours/models/animations/effects/IMMERSHUN, use fluros if you're struggling with aim but ween that shit off fast or you'll forever be an online hero or struggling rocket arena nerd.
Completely agree about vision obscuring, it's ironic that only single player games normally have this much "immersion" since you're not playing against real people so it tries to engage your mind in other ways, sound quietening on low health (Really fucking stupid mechanic I utterly fucking hate 'Oh I'm at half HP better lose half my hearing at the same time'), lerks gas being solid as fuck, gorge and bile overlays, weapon models being obtuse as fuck (th-thanks ammo hud on weapons, even mines, now I can't get rid of the models without a floating hud, immershun)
-WildCat-Cape Town, South AfricaJoin Date: 2008-07-19Member: 64664Members, Reinforced - Shadow
edited February 2013
Some people have said that Alien Vision has no down sides but I don't find this to be true. The main down side is that you can't see the lighting situation in your environment when Alien Vision is enabled.
Being able to see the color of the walls and where the shadows are is important when you hear Marines approaching and you want to reduce your chances of being seen. When the moment comes to launch into the fray, I turn on Alien Vision. When I'm zooming around in amongst 3 Marines, trying to bite them all to death, Alien Vision becomes very useful.
The rest of the time, I tend to use regular vision. Obviously, I'll turn it on when the lights go out and I sometimes leave it on in red-lit rooms as well.
I actually use Alien Vision quite similarly to how I use the Marine's flashlight. When playing Marine, I sometimes find that Skulks can blend in with the background even when they're jumping around in amongst my team-mates and I. The flashlight's limited range often brightens up the Skulk without brightening up the walls too much and helps me stay on target.
...it's obvious the immersion is hindering the game play in spades...
The only thing that's hindering the game play is peoples' ineptitude. Nobody is going to improve their game if they blame some atmospheric lighting effect for their failure. Situational awareness, positioning yourself advantageously, and timing your shots carefully [non-exhaustive list] are vastly more important to success.
Confirmed for: "If the shoe fits..." I don't understand why people who like clear colors, easy to recognize targets, and "aim above all" in FPS games have chosen to play NS2 anyway. From all multiplayer shooters I know, NS2 with its RTS part and strong focus on immersion is farthest away from Q3A than any other game. And I love NS2 exactly because of that. But who cares, I'm only a pub-scrub. But you, instead of choosing a game that matches your preferences, constantly lament about NS2 being to immerse and vision-obstructing.
Really, it's ok if you don't like immerse games. But haven't you thought 1 minute about choosing the right game for your preference? Instead of abusing the "Flag" function of the forum, because you simply disagree with a person or are not capable of admitting that you have simply chosen wrong? Very sad, had thought better of some of you.
To the questions in the topic:
- I play with alien sight always on. (I would love if it could be activated on default after spawning / hedging and if it would less obstruct the textures)
- Going from 20-40 FPS with my old GPU to 40-60 with my new, I agree that it has a huge impact on the "skill" to aim at skulks or killing marines.
i play above 60 fps(7970x2(doesnt matter) and a 5ghz processor overclocked with liquid cooling) and 120hz monitor doesn't matter with this game(i was forced to turn off vsync,d/t buffering for a smooth mouse). i have had to change the colour scheme of my monitor to fix the skulk blend of colours, sadly makes the game look awful. however my skulks dont blend in very well with such a setup, i would prefer to go with no gun model/muzzel flash as well but comp rules insist i dont remove it)
if it was the developers intention to "close the gap" for skulks was to blend into walls and then give marines an annoying gun that doctors could use in seizure tests. then mission accomplished.
Scans are like using the pink skulk mod, paints a giant circle around them. thats why marines gain conference. using a no gun mod(not the invisible one, deleting the file) and a pink skulk mod my aim returns to my quake 3 days.
I say leave aliens vision, the point is if they get close they should be able to do major damage. however marines changing the gamma/color temperature and a few other things on my monitor(black equalizer) to make the game look like total crap, wondering if that was intended.
I have no problem with people disliking my say. I know very well that i'm in a minority. Hell, i was probably a minority back when i competed anyhow. Most people played Q3 and not UT. And certainly not Instagib UT. I'd be the minority in most every FPS forum on the web by now. But that doesn't mean that i don't get to have my say about NS2. It's just another innocent topic from someone who actually cares. UWE are obviously not going to lay down a complete change of vision in the next build from reading one topic header. I just wanted a discussion going, and to see how many that agree/disagree and why.
I've already stated that i didn't expect to get a dose of UT when playing NS2. I love NS2 for what it is, and i play modern games an enjoy them just as much as you guys. With all my experience in how a great aim converts to great fun, why would i not want others to experience more of that, in a game for which (judging from the approving posts thus far) there is at least an in-part consensus that aiming is a tricky thing? I certainly don't want to make this game worse or less fun for anyone. And i'm clearly not alone in this.
I only brought my gaming past into the fray to prove a point; even the best aimers can have serious issues with the aim in NS2. That is an interesting phenomenon, and not a complaint. The only actual complaint i have with NS2, which i mentioned mostly indirectly, is that i consider it too easy to win as an alien. And this, in turn, is something that i wanted to discuss if it could be "fixed" by experimenting with alternate alien vision. Some of you mention how the skill i had in UT can't really translate into a game like NS2. While i agree about this a great deal, i should probably also mention that i do really well in other FPS games, they too far from being similar to UT in Instagib mode.
Playing alien in NS2 is about as far from playing Instagib mode in UT as you can come within the same genre. So the fact that someone like me does far better as a skulk than as a marine in this game is quite the conundrum, and may be something to think about when discussing the whole balancing debate. If aim has anything to do with NS2, there's clearly something odd going on when you think about these facts.
I'm trying to be of use to the others who may feel this way, who may read this topic, and who may get advice from the people who've got something constructive to say. I couldn't find an existing topic like this in the forum, so i simply created one for the sake of having one.
However, i've also stated that i believe that NS2 was meant to be this way, multiple times. Not once have i stated that alien vision etc is a mistake. I realize that the devs want it this way. Thus, if the people who agree with me that there's at least a chance of enjoying NS2 even more if seeing enemy movement was easier for everyone, we have to bring our thoughts about all this to the eyes of UWE.
Just because they designed NS2 to be exactly as it is, it doesn't mean that they've got everything right. Just look at the constant little changes in balance in most every build. UWE are obviously struggling with trying to make NS2 as fun and even as possible for everyone. And they're not going to get there if we don't bring up something constructive to the table, even it's something as relatively minor as the effects that alien vision may have.
In other words, if you disagree with me; don't just rant me back to the stone-age (where i apparently belong ), but put your own ideas forth to why alien vision is not a culprit, and what instead could be a culprit, for the devs to see. The description for this board does state that UWE reads these topics. The ones of you who have done this already i consider quite awesome. In fact, the post i liked the most thus far is the one that agrees with me the least. Think of that before you accuse me of just wanting to change a game that isn't to my preference for selfish desires.
There's hardly anyone who actually likes the idea of not being able to see the movement of their enemies in an FPS. So even for the people who state that they don't have a problem with this, you would probably do the community a favor if you at least recognized other people's problem with this and joined in the discussion for what could be done to remedy this for the sake of potentially improving balance and thus potentially improving the fun. I'm hardly a minority when it comes to wanting to enjoy games even more.
Comments
Alien vision helps my FPS in addition to easing the task of tracking marine players. If considered unfair for aliens, it could be balanced by adding a slight energy penalty while it is active.
When did I say it wasn't? The point was aliens should not be overly easy to see.
Other than Aesthetics, mind you.
How am I supposed to infer that point from a single sentence?
When trying to find the hole in glass.
Like a bird into a window.
Next time, read the post you are quoting. Normal vision is better for target differentiation. When you have a target-rich environment like an enemy base, or even your own base under attack, Alien vision makes it harder to spot marines against the almost all orange backdrop. And again, transparency including glass, phase gates (is it active?) and bile bomb/spit.
Regarding alien vision, it might be a good idea to implement a certain distance in which alien vision works. Past that range, the game might be rendered as it's normally seen. Alien vision becomes a lantern instead, balancing farsighted vision with marines'.
I've never had a problem telling a marine apart from a fade/skulk/onos/observatory.
I will concede that it is harder to see if a window is broken/a phase gate is active, but the holes in windows don't change, and you can tell if the phase is up if you're close enough to it, which you should be if you're planning on taking it down.
Hah, you think I'd be able to by now, huh? I guess I have more macro knowledge of the maps, rather than which pane, out of a possible 3, has the hole.
Also, suggestive quote.
Well, there's only like three maps with windows that you can go through anyways.
Your simply comparing apples and oranges. Your comparing a game that is symmetrical and about 1 shotting to a game that is asymmetrical on purpose.
Not everyone wants to point and click on a big badly textured red blob over and over and the evolution of fps games has shown this.
Edit:
Derp.
WHAT?! I can't believe what I just read...
Wrong. 30 fps is 30 fps, I don't care what the refresh rate of your monitor is.
How about seeing a marine against a building (or hive)? Both are the same bright orange, you are better off using normal vision to spot the marine.
Alien vision is better like 95% of the time, but normal vision is still useful enough that no one would want them to take it away entirely either, so it's not completely obsolete.
Humans excel at sensing movement even when the object is partially obscured. A buncha scientists even wrote a bunch of papers on it (and of course wrote in a bunch of guesswork on the evolution side of things).
That is just plain ridiculous. Aim is every thing in a FPS. Want proof its called AIM BOT. Even playing against good players with on point shooting it is not fun; hey look turn corner as skulk boom insta death.
Now in regards to alien vision I agree with you, it helps out a ton. I used it in NS1 for the same reason, it is just plain hard some times to glance at a skulk or marine that is not moving and notice them. Just think about camouflage you want it to match the back ground colors so it is harder for you to be seen.
The 120 hertz monitor to me seems pointless since you will not ever be above 70 FPS during game play. Wait like 2-3 generation of CPU's maybe then but by that time 4K monitors will be standard.
I could see it affecting colour blind people.
FTFY- Anything above traditional 60fps is till more frames shown per second on a 120hz than a 60hz. Personally, this is a full 33 min marine side run with exos and macs.
Frames, 172279
Time (ms), 2003506 (33 min)
Min, 46
Max, 136
Avg, 85.989
Specs: i5 750 @ 3,9ghz
Wouldn't be unreasonable for highly overclocked i5 2500k or better to hit close to 100fps average and thus benefit from a 120hz greatly, this notion that the game can't reach over 60 fps is clearly uncalled for.
Yes, the color scheme is so desaturated that it makes the game look very, very flat. Even in "bright areas", I had such a hard time seeing that I wrote a command line utility that would change the desktop gamma before and after the game.
Compare the look to a game like Left 4 Dead. Valve designs game so that players stand out and they explicitly worked on this part of the game. Both games are designed with very similar goals and mechanisms, but only one of these games does it well. Guess who said "we were able to define a stylistic look that balances visual drama with clear readability for players."
When in doubt, do what Valve does.
However I would not like skulks to be seen as easy by marines, because hiding and ambushes ARE a feature and no accidental thing.
However I agree that it seems kind of moronic to put much effort in disorienting and obscuring the ling of sight for aliens (bite animation) on behalf of "immerson" just to negate these effects with Alien vision which is a have-to. I mean, not turining it on as Alien in fights is stupid. There is no other way to put it.
At the same time I really do not like Alien vision. I like to enjoy the games I play, but I certainly do not enjoy the ass-ugly view of the game I have to play everytime I switch on Aliens vision.
I think it would be best to make Aien vision more beautiful by leaving the overall levels more as they naturally are and just highlighting the marines in a less ugly and offensive way than right now. If this would make alien aming harder, you could still reduce the size of the Alien mouths.
Plz UWE, consider this because Alien vision makes your game magnitudes more ugly and this cannot really be your intend?!
Ns2 could use some in-game brightness/gamma options.
But implying the horrible Q3A precedence of no fun allowed shit stains for map models or CS 1.5 setting of 640x480 so the models are bigger with 0.7 sens is almost just as bad, running powerstrip in NS1 to remove all dark spots especially with CRT monitors is just as rampant as fluro models in NS2 are now, i.e. every fuck and their cat is nearly using them. I would agree new players will benefit greatly from running fluros to begin with, the movement animation in this game is fucking horrible and when skulks can literally change direction at full speed at any point in time makes it really awkward, not withstanding the fact everything is the same 3 colours and each room needs 100 different light sources since it seems rooms have no default gamma to see through.
Watching the streams of some of the best players in pub I've never seen so many overshots and spray and pray from "the best" players, it's obvious the immersion is hindering the game play in spades when people investing 1000+ hours at the top of the pile still can't reliably shoot down 3-4 skulks per LMG mag and pick off 2 skulks with a pistol, while that wasn't possible 100% of the time in NS1 it certainly wasn't unusual to see the better shooters pull these feats off in pubs/scrims all the time, much like 1 person in CS spraying down 4-5 people in a rush on 1 mag, clutch plays don't exist in NS2.
Not sure what the solution is exactly but something needs to change with models or introduce a gamma/brightness slider at least, using fluros for a week or two helped my aim incredibly but it was obvious playing from game to game on and off I was making kills I couldn't without it because I either couldn't flat out see shit or it was just too obscured to track without it, haven't used fluros in a month or so now and I get the same scores as before with them but it's frustrating playing on default sometimes, rooms like lava falls/conduit in refinery are a fucking nightmare no matter how much you play with display settings or use outside programs like RadeonHD or sweetFX, the game just feels bad trying to track aim half the time across creep/dark areas/lights/warping or stuttering models.
Good to see Savant shit posting as usual, the major disadvantage of AV is that it completely drops off at a distance, a very real distance in a lot of maps from res node to doorway, stuff will not light up if you rely on AV at a distance before it's too late and you're pistoled. You know, that asymmetrical range vs melee argument tossed around everyday, disadvantage.
tl;dr: It's bad and feels bad to aim in NS2 thanks to colours/models/animations/effects/IMMERSHUN, use fluros if you're struggling with aim but ween that shit off fast or you'll forever be an online hero or struggling rocket arena nerd.
BF3 says hi
Being able to see the color of the walls and where the shadows are is important when you hear Marines approaching and you want to reduce your chances of being seen. When the moment comes to launch into the fray, I turn on Alien Vision. When I'm zooming around in amongst 3 Marines, trying to bite them all to death, Alien Vision becomes very useful.
The rest of the time, I tend to use regular vision. Obviously, I'll turn it on when the lights go out and I sometimes leave it on in red-lit rooms as well.
I actually use Alien Vision quite similarly to how I use the Marine's flashlight. When playing Marine, I sometimes find that Skulks can blend in with the background even when they're jumping around in amongst my team-mates and I. The flashlight's limited range often brightens up the Skulk without brightening up the walls too much and helps me stay on target.
I probably don't need to say this because 3 people have already flagged your post as a troll, but ... speak for yourself.
The only thing that's hindering the game play is peoples' ineptitude. Nobody is going to improve their game if they blame some atmospheric lighting effect for their failure. Situational awareness, positioning yourself advantageously, and timing your shots carefully [non-exhaustive list] are vastly more important to success.
Confirmed for: "If the shoe fits..." I don't understand why people who like clear colors, easy to recognize targets, and "aim above all" in FPS games have chosen to play NS2 anyway. From all multiplayer shooters I know, NS2 with its RTS part and strong focus on immersion is farthest away from Q3A than any other game. And I love NS2 exactly because of that. But who cares, I'm only a pub-scrub. But you, instead of choosing a game that matches your preferences, constantly lament about NS2 being to immerse and vision-obstructing.
Really, it's ok if you don't like immerse games. But haven't you thought 1 minute about choosing the right game for your preference? Instead of abusing the "Flag" function of the forum, because you simply disagree with a person or are not capable of admitting that you have simply chosen wrong? Very sad, had thought better of some of you.
To the questions in the topic:
- I play with alien sight always on. (I would love if it could be activated on default after spawning / hedging and if it would less obstruct the textures)
- Going from 20-40 FPS with my old GPU to 40-60 with my new, I agree that it has a huge impact on the "skill" to aim at skulks or killing marines.
if it was the developers intention to "close the gap" for skulks was to blend into walls and then give marines an annoying gun that doctors could use in seizure tests. then mission accomplished.
Scans are like using the pink skulk mod, paints a giant circle around them. thats why marines gain conference. using a no gun mod(not the invisible one, deleting the file) and a pink skulk mod my aim returns to my quake 3 days.
I say leave aliens vision, the point is if they get close they should be able to do major damage. however marines changing the gamma/color temperature and a few other things on my monitor(black equalizer) to make the game look like total crap, wondering if that was intended.
I've already stated that i didn't expect to get a dose of UT when playing NS2. I love NS2 for what it is, and i play modern games an enjoy them just as much as you guys. With all my experience in how a great aim converts to great fun, why would i not want others to experience more of that, in a game for which (judging from the approving posts thus far) there is at least an in-part consensus that aiming is a tricky thing? I certainly don't want to make this game worse or less fun for anyone. And i'm clearly not alone in this.
I only brought my gaming past into the fray to prove a point; even the best aimers can have serious issues with the aim in NS2. That is an interesting phenomenon, and not a complaint. The only actual complaint i have with NS2, which i mentioned mostly indirectly, is that i consider it too easy to win as an alien. And this, in turn, is something that i wanted to discuss if it could be "fixed" by experimenting with alternate alien vision. Some of you mention how the skill i had in UT can't really translate into a game like NS2. While i agree about this a great deal, i should probably also mention that i do really well in other FPS games, they too far from being similar to UT in Instagib mode.
Playing alien in NS2 is about as far from playing Instagib mode in UT as you can come within the same genre. So the fact that someone like me does far better as a skulk than as a marine in this game is quite the conundrum, and may be something to think about when discussing the whole balancing debate. If aim has anything to do with NS2, there's clearly something odd going on when you think about these facts.
I'm trying to be of use to the others who may feel this way, who may read this topic, and who may get advice from the people who've got something constructive to say. I couldn't find an existing topic like this in the forum, so i simply created one for the sake of having one.
However, i've also stated that i believe that NS2 was meant to be this way, multiple times. Not once have i stated that alien vision etc is a mistake. I realize that the devs want it this way. Thus, if the people who agree with me that there's at least a chance of enjoying NS2 even more if seeing enemy movement was easier for everyone, we have to bring our thoughts about all this to the eyes of UWE.
Just because they designed NS2 to be exactly as it is, it doesn't mean that they've got everything right. Just look at the constant little changes in balance in most every build. UWE are obviously struggling with trying to make NS2 as fun and even as possible for everyone. And they're not going to get there if we don't bring up something constructive to the table, even it's something as relatively minor as the effects that alien vision may have.
In other words, if you disagree with me; don't just rant me back to the stone-age (where i apparently belong
There's hardly anyone who actually likes the idea of not being able to see the movement of their enemies in an FPS. So even for the people who state that they don't have a problem with this, you would probably do the community a favor if you at least recognized other people's problem with this and joined in the discussion for what could be done to remedy this for the sake of potentially improving balance and thus potentially improving the fun. I'm hardly a minority when it comes to wanting to enjoy games even more.