Where is my mid-game tech to one shot Marines from far away?
I mean, if it's totally fair for a Marine to gib an aliens player up close (You know, the only envelope a skulk can attack in?) then it should also be totally fair for an Onos to launch a horn through a Marines chest from 80 meters away and nail him to a wall. Right?
Oh wait, asymmetry! I guess just saying that word makes it ok. I wish I had some more asymmetry in my life, it would solve every argument I have with people.
EDIT:
On a serious note, the changes to shotgun really make the need for a 'last weapon used' quick key all the more necessary.
Be prepared for 3 dislikes and one person saying 60-40
Marine players still can't win 50% of the time even if they start out with w3 and a3. They require a considerable amount of hand holding or they cry in the corner. The first time in 3 months I tried giving this game a shot again, the 3 games I played as marines nearly 90% of the players were constantly bitching about not getting their way. And this is what this game is trying to balancing around.
Where is my mid-game tech to one shot Marines from far away?
I mean, if it's totally fair for a Marine to gib an aliens player up close (You know, the only envelope a skulk can attack in?) then it should also be totally fair for an Onos to launch a horn through a Marines chest from 80 meters away and nail him to a wall. Right?
Oh wait, asymmetry! I guess just saying that word makes it ok. I wish I had some more asymmetry in my life, it would solve every argument I have with people.
EDIT:
On a serious note, the changes to shotgun really make the need for a 'last weapon used' quick key all the more necessary.
Be prepared for 3 dislikes and one person saying 60-40
Marine players still can't win 50% of the time even if they start out with w3 and a3. They require a considerable amount of hand holding or they cry in the corner. The first time in 3 months I tried giving this game a shot again, the 3 games I played as marines nearly 90% of the players were constantly bitching about not getting their way. And this is what this game is trying to balancing around.
Oh I hear you, I just don't care if people agree with me.
I think that it might be simply impossible to come up with a shotgun model that doesn't either:
A) Suck to buy as a Marine, as it's a useless melee weapon up against a team of melee users.
Suck to play against as Aliens, as it one or two shots every life form you could possibly throw at it minus one.
Either shotgun is OP as hell, or not worth spending 20 P.Res on. Since Fades are not worth the 50 P.Res, and for that matter have not been worth 50 P.Res since launch, I'd rather see shotguns relegated to uselessness as well.
I know plenty of people will disagree and say LOLzFadeP0wnzF4ce!?!?11 but we'll simply have to agree to disagree on that front.
The community will keep saying L2P to whiney Marines, because at the end of the day Marines will always be victorious if they can simply shoot the f'ing skulk with their bullets. That one thing, right there, is why Marines fail more often than not. It's easier to face-derp into a guy holding the fire key than it is to shoot an LMG with any semblance of accuracy. You can blame it on hit detection, or latency, skill, or whatever but it's the core problem.
You'll realize this when you jump into a group of five Marines as a skulk and are not hit even once in half the games you play. This is weighted on the other end by Marines players that simply don't miss, and you know what? Those Marines win games, hands down. There is nothing the Alien team can do against a guy that has stupid good aim except hope to ninja a power node.
Otherwise, it's bend over betty.
Why a game chose to make the default weapon the hardest one to use is one of the worst design decisions UWE made, and it will haunt them with a constant need to 'rebalance' little things that ultimately have no result on the game. We are at almost the same win/loss ratio that we were at with the Early Onos strategy.
Where is my mid-game tech to one shot Marines from far away?
I mean, if it's totally fair for a Marine to gib an aliens player up close (You know, the only envelope a skulk can attack in?) then it should also be totally fair for an Onos to launch a horn through a Marines chest from 80 meters away and nail him to a wall. Right?
Oh wait, asymmetry! I guess just saying that word makes it ok. I wish I had some more asymmetry in my life, it would solve every argument I have with people.
EDIT:
On a serious note, the changes to shotgun really make the need for a 'last weapon used' quick key all the more necessary.
Be prepared for 3 dislikes and one person saying 60-40
Marine players still can't win 50% of the time even if they start out with w3 and a3. They require a considerable amount of hand holding or they cry in the corner. The first time in 3 months I tried giving this game a shot again, the 3 games I played as marines nearly 90% of the players were constantly bitching about not getting their way. And this is what this game is trying to balancing around.
Either shotgun is OP as hell, or not worth spending 20 P.Res on. Since Fades are not worth the 50 P.Res, and for that matter have not been worth 50 P.Res since launch, I'd rather see shotguns relegated to uselessness as well.
I know plenty of people will disagree and say LOLzFadeP0wnzF4ce!?!?11 but we'll simply have to agree to disagree on that front.
we'd disagree because you are terrible and don't know what you're talking about
Oh I hear you, I just don't care if people agree with me.
I think that it might be simply impossible to come up with a shotgun model that doesn't either:
A) Suck to buy as a Marine, as it's a useless melee weapon up against a team of melee users.
Suck to play against as Aliens, as it one or two shots every life form you could possibly throw at it minus one.
this can be done, but it would involve reworking a lot of the game, which is wasted effort more or less (higher ttks, different movement mechanics). If I were designing the game, it would be drastically different than the current model, because both ns1 and ns2 suffer from very deep design flaws like ultra low ttk (with respect to a melee/ranged mechanic) that are simply difficult to balance among a variety of skill levels.
It's easier to face-derp into a guy holding the fire key than it is to shoot an LMG with any semblance of accuracy. You can blame it on hit detection, or latency, skill, or whatever but it's the core problem.
Agree. Is it really that bad to say 40% of the time marines are accurate enough to win the early skirmishes, and 60% of the time they are not? Does that mean the game is broken? If yes, would it be a nightmare to remove "auto-attack" and require skulks to time their bites? That might add just enough skill to even things out.
Where is my mid-game tech to one shot Marines from far away?
I mean, if it's totally fair for a Marine to gib an aliens player up close (You know, the only envelope a skulk can attack in?) then it should also be totally fair for an Onos to launch a horn through a Marines chest from 80 meters away and nail him to a wall. Right?
Oh wait, asymmetry! I guess just saying that word makes it ok. I wish I had some more asymmetry in my life, it would solve every argument I have with people.
Yesterday I stomped two marines, and killed them both in two hits as an onos.
Clearly this is broken, and not fair to the marines.
Marines clearly need a way to kill an onos in two shots, I'm thinking that if they onos is charging his mouth should be wide open, and if you lob a grenade down his gob he takes extra damage.
EDIT:
On a serious note, the changes to shotgun really make the need for a 'last weapon used' quick key all the more necessary.
There are three/four weapons you can have at any given time.
Is it really that hard to press 2 when you want your pistol?
would it be a nightmare to remove "auto-attack" and require skulks to time their bites?
You know, if there were an option for that, I would totally use it. I have a bad habit of holding down the button for too long and making a second bite that I didn't intend to.
Good argument King. I like a good ad hominem with my coffee.
Fades are ok, as long as the Marines don't have shotguns or any upgrades. They're 'effective' window is so small that it's a waste of 50 P.Res, in my opinion.
And yeah, I think it's perfectly legitimate to compare a third-hive research ability on a 75 P.Res lifeform to a mid-game technology that costs 20 P.Res to purchase. I'm guessing you missed my qualifier of 'mid-game' tech in my post because it was convenient to do so to construct your riposte. Kudos.
I'm not saying Shotgun is going to turn Marines into good players 'all of a sudden'. The fact is you still need to shoot the fade point blank twice to kill them. That can definitely be tough. However if you're practiced in doing so, what exactly is the Fade going to do if it turns out you're a deadly SOB with a shotgun? Use their acid rockets on you from afar?
Oh, I guess they should die in two hits and then evolve into a Lerk. Hope they have the P.Res after blowing it all on Fade!
You can call me a carebear that doesn't like hard games now. I already know that's going to be your defense.
Quite frankly, the inability of Marines to shoot with any semblance of accuracy is the only thing keeping the shotgun contained. If people would solidly connect with even half their shots there are three aliens that might be able to stop or slow them. Gorge, Lerk, and Onos.
You will kindly notice that Lerk is without a doubt the most powerful and useful alien, and that it's more useful at all points during a game. Strong at the start, strong during the mid game, and strong during the late game. Fade is strong during the early game when you can't afford one, good during the mid game, and a waste of a good player during the late game. It's one fewer Onos during the last siege, and it has no 'support' function at all unlike every other alien life form.
Oh...I forgot Vortex! Well, I guess Fades are totally awesome then.
So maybe, at the end of the day, shotguns are fine but the life form they are intended to counter is a P.O.S.? That seems very, very likely.
I have no real problem with it. Works great up close but I do find myself occasionally expecting to get a kill on a retreating lerk or fade and then not. Probably mostly just a conditioning thing though.
would it be a nightmare to remove "auto-attack" and require skulks to time their bites?
You know, if there were an option for that, I would totally use it. I have a bad habit of holding down the button for too long and making a second bite that I didn't intend to.
Comments
Be prepared for 3 dislikes and one person saying 60-40
Marine players still can't win 50% of the time even if they start out with w3 and a3. They require a considerable amount of hand holding or they cry in the corner. The first time in 3 months I tried giving this game a shot again, the 3 games I played as marines nearly 90% of the players were constantly bitching about not getting their way. And this is what this game is trying to balancing around.
Oh I hear you, I just don't care if people agree with me.
I think that it might be simply impossible to come up with a shotgun model that doesn't either:
A) Suck to buy as a Marine, as it's a useless melee weapon up against a team of melee users.
Either shotgun is OP as hell, or not worth spending 20 P.Res on. Since Fades are not worth the 50 P.Res, and for that matter have not been worth 50 P.Res since launch, I'd rather see shotguns relegated to uselessness as well.
I know plenty of people will disagree and say LOLzFadeP0wnzF4ce!?!?11 but we'll simply have to agree to disagree on that front.
The community will keep saying L2P to whiney Marines, because at the end of the day Marines will always be victorious if they can simply shoot the f'ing skulk with their bullets. That one thing, right there, is why Marines fail more often than not. It's easier to face-derp into a guy holding the fire key than it is to shoot an LMG with any semblance of accuracy. You can blame it on hit detection, or latency, skill, or whatever but it's the core problem.
You'll realize this when you jump into a group of five Marines as a skulk and are not hit even once in half the games you play. This is weighted on the other end by Marines players that simply don't miss, and you know what? Those Marines win games, hands down. There is nothing the Alien team can do against a guy that has stupid good aim except hope to ninja a power node.
Otherwise, it's bend over betty.
Why a game chose to make the default weapon the hardest one to use is one of the worst design decisions UWE made, and it will haunt them with a constant need to 'rebalance' little things that ultimately have no result on the game. We are at almost the same win/loss ratio that we were at with the Early Onos strategy.
OH NOES!
Ludicrous Speed Ahead! (But can we go plaid?!)
this can be done, but it would involve reworking a lot of the game, which is wasted effort more or less (higher ttks, different movement mechanics). If I were designing the game, it would be drastically different than the current model, because both ns1 and ns2 suffer from very deep design flaws like ultra low ttk (with respect to a melee/ranged mechanic) that are simply difficult to balance among a variety of skill levels.
Agree. Is it really that bad to say 40% of the time marines are accurate enough to win the early skirmishes, and 60% of the time they are not? Does that mean the game is broken? If yes, would it be a nightmare to remove "auto-attack" and require skulks to time their bites? That might add just enough skill to even things out.
Clearly this is broken, and not fair to the marines.
Marines clearly need a way to kill an onos in two shots, I'm thinking that if they onos is charging his mouth should be wide open, and if you lob a grenade down his gob he takes extra damage.
There are three/four weapons you can have at any given time.
Is it really that hard to press 2 when you want your pistol?
Fades are ok, as long as the Marines don't have shotguns or any upgrades. They're 'effective' window is so small that it's a waste of 50 P.Res, in my opinion.
And yeah, I think it's perfectly legitimate to compare a third-hive research ability on a 75 P.Res lifeform to a mid-game technology that costs 20 P.Res to purchase. I'm guessing you missed my qualifier of 'mid-game' tech in my post because it was convenient to do so to construct your riposte. Kudos.
I'm not saying Shotgun is going to turn Marines into good players 'all of a sudden'. The fact is you still need to shoot the fade point blank twice to kill them. That can definitely be tough. However if you're practiced in doing so, what exactly is the Fade going to do if it turns out you're a deadly SOB with a shotgun? Use their acid rockets on you from afar?
Oh, I guess they should die in two hits and then evolve into a Lerk. Hope they have the P.Res after blowing it all on Fade!
You can call me a carebear that doesn't like hard games now. I already know that's going to be your defense.
Quite frankly, the inability of Marines to shoot with any semblance of accuracy is the only thing keeping the shotgun contained. If people would solidly connect with even half their shots there are three aliens that might be able to stop or slow them. Gorge, Lerk, and Onos.
You will kindly notice that Lerk is without a doubt the most powerful and useful alien, and that it's more useful at all points during a game. Strong at the start, strong during the mid game, and strong during the late game. Fade is strong during the early game when you can't afford one, good during the mid game, and a waste of a good player during the late game. It's one fewer Onos during the last siege, and it has no 'support' function at all unlike every other alien life form.
Oh...I forgot Vortex! Well, I guess Fades are totally awesome then.
So maybe, at the end of the day, shotguns are fine but the life form they are intended to counter is a P.O.S.? That seems very, very likely.