As far as I'm concerned, untill I see the name 'strofix' on a Div 1 team, or even a single gather / scrim, his posts on the subject of competitive games are worthless and instantly ignored.
Fana's arm movement while flying as a lerk is astounding, he could be washing a windscreen at lightspeed, sweeping all the way across the entire desk over and over.
Because making large movements is easier than small movements. The difference between high and low sensitivity is like the different between a 3" and 2' steering wheel in a car without power steering.
This honestly make me think of one thing. Exploitation.
They're doing something to get those kinds of speeds. They're abusing some sort of mechanism to get those directional changes. Something that isn't supposed to be there, or shouldn't be there. If you watch them when they attack as a team, every single one of them does it. Its basically mandatory, and I don't like mandatory things.
That's like calling marine splitting vs banes in SC2 an exploit that shouldn't be allowed. It's called emergent gameplay. If you don't make an effort to keep up and push the boundaries of what people think is possible then you'll never compete at any level, even pubs
As far as I'm concerned, untill I see the name 'strofix' on a Div 1 team, or even a single gather / scrim, his posts on the subject of competitive games are worthless and instantly ignored.
How ignorant.
I pose the question "why", and I get ignored? Makes me think that maybe you're not too fond of thinking.
Your response shows only your realisation of how accurate the analogy is, and how inappropriate your reaction was. Sadly though, most people will find your crude retort to be most enjoyable.
Quite sad really.
but he's right. your initial observation has no merit to it. they are not moving faster beyond the expected results of the Spark engine. perhaps you don't understand walljump as well as you think you do?
additionally, the effectiveness of aim can't really be overstated. it's possible to kill Skulks in 9 - 13 rounds, making it possible to dispatch of 3+ Skulks in a single magazine, yet this rarely ever happens even for Tane. reaching the skill ceiling for aim is a long ways off.
I would rather play marine against Archaea than alien, this is the only team this is true for.
Your response shows only your realisation of how accurate the analogy is, and how inappropriate your reaction was. Sadly though, most people will find your crude retort to be most enjoyable.
Quite sad really.
but he's right. your initial observation has no merit to it. they are not moving faster beyond the expected results of the Spark engine. perhaps you don't understand walljump as well as you think you do?
Maybe I don't, but neither does Mercury. As I stated, Archaea are moving inordinately faster than Mercury do. I want to know why.
What are Archaea doing to move so fast, but more importantly, why don't Mercury know how to do it? I mean, if they are contenders for second best, why don't they have this information?
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2013
I'm inclined to leave this thread open, IF you lot can continue in a civilized manner from now on, without the insults and flaming. One more outburst and the thread will be locked...
Any more discussion in this thread of the possibility that Arc players 'exploit' something will result in me working out how to use the Vanilla forum admin panel. These boys have demonstrated their skill in sanitised LAN environments in front of cameras watching them from every direction. They are above reproach. Let's get back on topic and dissect their skill.
Are you looking for the je ne sais quoi? In reality, it's just ticking a whole bunch of boxes. Aim is still probably the single most important factor (without it, don't bother) but you're going to have to be good at everything and the team has to work well together blah blah. I clanned with both of them a great deal in NS1 and, I'm sorry to tell you, it's not some magic ingredient. Besides being a smart dude with good aim (i.e. having a solid foundation), it's mainly logging loads and loads of hours and joining a bunch of people doing the same.
You'd be horrified to know how much time we've spent playing NS1 (thousands of hours)- those two happened to have picked up where they've left of in NS2.
What's frustrating about you is you come in all high and mighty but come from a place of stubbornness and complete lack of experience or competency. You draw sweeping conclusions from a few misplaced and theory-crafted notions and extrapolate them at will. Some of what you say is interesting and I can tell that you're not dogshit thick but you've got a long way to go before you can start credibly posting on matters like this without more experienced players crucifying for the regularly interspersed turds.
Taking the cue from Kouji_San and Strayan, I'm going to try to bring the thread back on track.
I've been watching a good bit of the competitive matches and some other streams lately. One question keeps popping into my head, who scrims with Arc so they get practice?
I watch Virsoul's stream sometimes and I always seem them scrimming All-in and a few other NA teams. I believe Nxzl is the best NA team at the moment, but I don't see a huge gap like I see between them and Arc, or between Arc and Hg's performance in the last three rounds tonight (I missed the first one, which people in the stream told me was quite close).
I admit that this is the first time I've seen Hg play, so I can't say whether today's match was an off day or if that is their usual level of play. I hope they (and Nxzl, All-in, etc) can find their game for the big tourney, to give us a great show in April!
Aren't you guys being a little harsh? He's not accusing them of cheating or anything... just asking how they do it. He's actually completely correct in saying that they exploit the wall jumping mechanic. I would hope ALL of you are exploiting the wall jump mechanic.. I mean shit they put it in the game for a reason right?
ex·ploit 1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
2. To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. See Synonyms at manipulate.
3. To advertise; promote.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
We have a balanced roster of talented players for all positions, most of whom come with a lot of ns1 history. We practice a lot and we have played together since the first ns2 beta competitions. There isn't really a whole lot more to it.
Sooner or later other teams will improve to the point where we won't be able to 4-0 big matches like this, but for now we have that little extra that gives us the edge we need to win consistently.
As for exploiting, we don't use wallhopping or other movement tricks differently than the other teams. Unlike bunnyhopping, wallhopping has a very limited skill ceiling, so it's not like there is a lot to "exploit" in the first place.
Aren't you guys being a little harsh? He's not accusing them of cheating or anything... just asking how they do it. He's actually completely correct in saying that they exploit the wall jumping mechanic. I would hope ALL of you are exploiting the wall jump mechanic.. I mean shit they put it in the game for a reason right?
ex·ploit 1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
2. To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. See Synonyms at manipulate.
3. To advertise; promote.
What's frustrating about you is you come in all high and mighty but come from a place of stubbornness and complete lack of experience or competency. You draw sweeping conclusions from a few misplaced and theory-crafted notions and extrapolate them at will. Some of what you say is interesting and I can tell that you're not dogshit thick but you've got a long way to go before you can start credibly posting on matters like this without more experienced players crucifying for the regularly interspersed turds.
I'm sorry that you feel that way, and apologise for any miscommunication. I think you are picking up on my pragmatism, and misinterpreting it. Reality, and a realist attitude, has the tendency of coming off as harsh, pessimistic, etc. For example, if I told a player that "there are thousands of players better than you", even though that statement would statistically almost definitely be true, and is an unavoidable fact, it sounds[\b] like an insult. But I assure you, it isn't.
It can sometimes help to look past individuals, and see a broader picture of things, devoid of subjectivity.
over 10 years, constantly playing at top level... and no one followed that road...
like you can go up one level and the next takes you double the time,
at some point if you never stop pushing, no one can reach you anymore,
even when you slow down a bit...
and btw a 30 minute game vs arch isnt a boring game :O!!!!
no one have accomplished this for ages...
the third game was just an accident,
happens if you make mistakes.
just dont take all of that to serious and practice more
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I saw some comp matches, including one with arch and damn...
I played NS1 and have some good hours under belt in NS2, but I learned new stuff within the first 5 minutes. Scary stuff.. well done.
If only recorded streams about matches were easier to find.
We have a balanced roster of talented players for all positions, most of whom come with a lot of ns1 history. We practice a lot and we have played together since the first ns2 beta competitions. There isn't really a whole lot more to it.
Sooner or later other teams will improve to the point where we won't be able to 4-0 big matches like this, but for now we have that little extra that gives us the edge we need to win consistently.
As for exploiting, we don't use wallhopping or other movement tricks differently than the other teams. Unlike bunnyhopping, wallhopping has a very limited skill ceiling, so it's not like there is a lot to "exploit" in the first place.
Do you think its probable, or is it the case that, you are the only ones who have carried on from NS1, straight into NS2, with the number of hours you have in both? I never concerned myself with the NS1 competitive scene, so know absolutely nothing of the players, but it would seem logical that your group of players would be one of many that did the exact same thing.
I know that, just in my personal case, I have well over 1500 hours in NS1, and am approaching 800 hours in NS2, and I never took it all that seriously. Surely there must be many hundreds of players with just as much experience and dedication as your team has?
I don't know about the European scene, but I do know that the mid/top NA competitive scene isn't as close as it should be due to the performance being utter shit.
It's more than probable, strofix - it's highly likely. The vast majority of elite NS1 players were resoundingly disappointed in NS2 and Fana and Tane are literally the only two top-tier players I can think of that have managed to stomache this game. Also, your pragmatism/realist spiel was pretty funny so thanks.
It's more than probable, strofix - it's highly likely. The vast majority of elite NS1 players were resoundingly disappointed in NS2 and Fana and Tane are literally the only two top-tier players I can think of that have managed to stomache this game.
This is far more pessimistic than I could ever be. Maybe you're the pragmatist?
It makes sense though. In theory.
I cannot think of a single top NA NS1 player that plays NS2 competitively currently, nor do I think that anyone from the current NA NS2 scene could compete with those players. If you want to understand why Arc is so much better, you must look at where they came from. Playing NS1 at a high level took several orders of magnitude more skill than NS2 does, such players that learned to master NS1 have a huge advantage in NS2, even with the extremely low skill ceiling.
If these games were to be played out in NS1 I have a feeling that Arc would win even more decisively over the competition.
At this point I would like to ask anyone who played NS1 competitively to speak up. It would be nice to know whether you still play NS2 regularly, or if indeed you currently play NS2 competitively.
Don't bother. I'm that person. Let me tell you - without a shadow of a doubt - that the only players worth their salt at the highest level (from the EU scene at least) who play NS2 regularly are Tane, Fana - and probably eagleye.
Some other great ex-NS1 players are b1 and wltrs but I haven't seen them play nearly as much.
Don't bother. I'm that person. Let me tell you - without a shadow of a doubt - that the only two players worth their salt at the highest level (from the EU scene at least) who play NS2 are Tane and Fana. End of story.
Some other great ex-NS1 players are b1 and wltrs but I haven't seen them play nearly as much.
The request stands. By chance there are still competitive players who don't play but still show loyalty and lurk on the forums. Their input could still be of value.
Comments
As far as I'm concerned, untill I see the name 'strofix' on a Div 1 team, or even a single gather / scrim, his posts on the subject of competitive games are worthless and instantly ignored.
Because making large movements is easier than small movements. The difference between high and low sensitivity is like the different between a 3" and 2' steering wheel in a car without power steering.
That's like calling marine splitting vs banes in SC2 an exploit that shouldn't be allowed. It's called emergent gameplay. If you don't make an effort to keep up and push the boundaries of what people think is possible then you'll never compete at any level, even pubs
How ignorant.
I pose the question "why", and I get ignored? Makes me think that maybe you're not too fond of thinking.
additionally, the effectiveness of aim can't really be overstated. it's possible to kill Skulks in 9 - 13 rounds, making it possible to dispatch of 3+ Skulks in a single magazine, yet this rarely ever happens even for Tane. reaching the skill ceiling for aim is a long ways off.
I would rather play marine against Archaea than alien, this is the only team this is true for.
Maybe I don't, but neither does Mercury. As I stated, Archaea are moving inordinately faster than Mercury do. I want to know why.
What are Archaea doing to move so fast, but more importantly, why don't Mercury know how to do it? I mean, if they are contenders for second best, why don't they have this information?
You'd be horrified to know how much time we've spent playing NS1 (thousands of hours)- those two happened to have picked up where they've left of in NS2.
What's frustrating about you is you come in all high and mighty but come from a place of stubbornness and complete lack of experience or competency. You draw sweeping conclusions from a few misplaced and theory-crafted notions and extrapolate them at will. Some of what you say is interesting and I can tell that you're not dogshit thick but you've got a long way to go before you can start credibly posting on matters like this without more experienced players crucifying for the regularly interspersed turds.
I've been watching a good bit of the competitive matches and some other streams lately. One question keeps popping into my head, who scrims with Arc so they get practice?
I watch Virsoul's stream sometimes and I always seem them scrimming All-in and a few other NA teams. I believe Nxzl is the best NA team at the moment, but I don't see a huge gap like I see between them and Arc, or between Arc and Hg's performance in the last three rounds tonight (I missed the first one, which people in the stream told me was quite close).
I admit that this is the first time I've seen Hg play, so I can't say whether today's match was an off day or if that is their usual level of play. I hope they (and Nxzl, All-in, etc) can find their game for the big tourney, to give us a great show in April!
ex·ploit
1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
2. To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. See Synonyms at manipulate.
3. To advertise; promote.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/exploit
Sooner or later other teams will improve to the point where we won't be able to 4-0 big matches like this, but for now we have that little extra that gives us the edge we need to win consistently.
As for exploiting, we don't use wallhopping or other movement tricks differently than the other teams. Unlike bunnyhopping, wallhopping has a very limited skill ceiling, so it's not like there is a lot to "exploit" in the first place.
If I'm not mistaken, Strayan is about to ban you.
I'm sorry that you feel that way, and apologise for any miscommunication. I think you are picking up on my pragmatism, and misinterpreting it. Reality, and a realist attitude, has the tendency of coming off as harsh, pessimistic, etc. For example, if I told a player that "there are thousands of players better than you", even though that statement would statistically almost definitely be true, and is an unavoidable fact, it sounds[\b] like an insult. But I assure you, it isn't.
It can sometimes help to look past individuals, and see a broader picture of things, devoid of subjectivity.
like you can go up one level and the next takes you double the time,
at some point if you never stop pushing, no one can reach you anymore,
even when you slow down a bit...
and btw a 30 minute game vs arch isnt a boring game :O!!!!
no one have accomplished this for ages...
the third game was just an accident,
happens if you make mistakes.
just dont take all of that to serious and practice more
I played NS1 and have some good hours under belt in NS2, but I learned new stuff within the first 5 minutes. Scary stuff.. well done.
If only recorded streams about matches were easier to find.
Do you think its probable, or is it the case that, you are the only ones who have carried on from NS1, straight into NS2, with the number of hours you have in both? I never concerned myself with the NS1 competitive scene, so know absolutely nothing of the players, but it would seem logical that your group of players would be one of many that did the exact same thing.
I know that, just in my personal case, I have well over 1500 hours in NS1, and am approaching 800 hours in NS2, and I never took it all that seriously. Surely there must be many hundreds of players with just as much experience and dedication as your team has?
maybe, one or two of the players on dn`?
This is far more pessimistic than I could ever be. Maybe you're the pragmatist?
It makes sense though. In theory.
"ns2 pro? more like ns1 reject."
best quote 2013
If these games were to be played out in NS1 I have a feeling that Arc would win even more decisively over the competition.
Some other great ex-NS1 players are b1 and wltrs but I haven't seen them play nearly as much.
The request stands. By chance there are still competitive players who don't play but still show loyalty and lurk on the forums. Their input could still be of value.