TBH the kill chart for aliens vs marines isnt really a good indicator - really a marine team that is winning would be ahead in kills - if those numbers are that close, its a sign the aliens are winning.
@|strofix| : I think alot of the people in this thread just got fed up with your posts, and instead of going to the one that made them break they just went to the OP and vented there. If you go through the thread again you've basically asked why arc is good, disagreed with aim being a factor, disagreed with the commander being a factor, called for other high level players input - after alot of names even I recognise posting - and then disregarding them. Called their whole team out for exploiting when if you've been around the FPS genre for as long as you say then you should understand 'exploiting' from the FPS terminology not the dictionary terminology.
My biggest mistake, as you rightly pointed out, was disagreeing. The general consensus was that Archaeas only real advantage is there tremendous aim, which I personally did not accept as a valid reason. I made it abundantly clear that this was simply my own personal opinion, and that I thought that there was another reason. The mob mentality then kicked in, and most people decided that disagreeing with Archaeas aim being the only reason they were better was actually me saying that they don't have good aim. This was obviously not the case.
If you go through my posts, you will find absolutely nothing that warrants the backlash that occured in this thread. Even the exploit remark, which most people horrendously overreacted to and misinterpreted, I attempted to explain my wording, yet nobody really cared at that point, because they had already lit their torches and gotten out their pitchforks.
I say again, the person in this thread that has been the most understanding and least abusive is me. Nobody has afforded me the same luxuries though.
Here's a real question. Do the members of Archaea have day jobs? How many hours do they spend on NS2 vs. other things in their lives? I don't actually expect an answer to this question, as that is private information. The point is that they may be the only people who are actually investing a significant portion of their time into NS2. Not that many people on earth are going to dedicate themselves that much to this game at this time.
I play NS2, but I play maybe an hour a day, and not every day. I do a lot of other things. If I quit my job and played NS2 all day every day, Archaea would maybe eventually want me to join them. That will never happen.
There is one more factor that has not been discussed. That is that there is no draft. Players can be on any team they want. If you go out to the kickball field and all the athletic kids form an All-Star team and leave all the nerds on the other teams. Guess who is going to be unbeatable? What if one NFL team had all the players of the previous years Pro Bowl?
When there are only a handful of amazing NS2 players on earth, and most of them are on the same team, of course there are not too many people left to beat them. If you break up Archaea and force Fana and Tane to be on separate teams, then you'll see some craziness. Imagine them meeting each other at that first res node encounter. OH SNAP!!!
The point is that they may be the only people who are actually investing a significant portion of their time into NS2. Not that many people on earth are going to dedicate themselves that much to this game at this time.
Why would they be the only ones? Maybe if we found out why they saw fit to dedicate there time to this game, we can use that information to get more people to do the same.
Here's a real question. Do the members of Archaea have day jobs? How many hours do they spend on NS2 vs. other things in their lives? I don't actually expect an answer to this question, as that is private information. The point is that they may be the only people who are actually investing a significant portion of their time into NS2. Not that many people on earth are going to dedicate themselves that much to this game at this time.
Our players are about 50/50 full time work and full time studies. I'm personally on my last year of law school. According to steam, I've played 28 hours of NS2 over the past 2 weeks, which comes out to exactly two hours a day.
That graph is interesting, but you're drawing the wrong conclusions from it. One problem we (Archaea) often come across when playing against other teams who are used to playing against us, is that they stack their defences in an attempt to beat our "skill" with "tactics". Typically they'll build lots of hydras at their harvesters and only rush us in big groups, usually abusing the currently OP gorge to make certain engagements unwinnable for our marines. The problem with doing that is that while it gives you a nicer k/d graph, it doesn't actually help you in winning the game. These days we've pretty much just accepted that we won't always get great k/d as marines, but we'll still end up winning in the end.
That graph is interesting, but you're drawing the wrong conclusions from it. One problem we (Archaea) often come across when playing against other teams who are used to playing against us, is that they stack their defences in an attempt to beat our "skill" with "tactics". Typically they'll build lots of hydras at their harvesters and only rush us in big groups, usually abusing the currently OP gorge to make certain engagements unwinnable for our marines. The problem with doing that is that while it gives you a nicer k/d graph, it doesn't actually help you in winning the game. These days we've pretty much just accepted that we won't always get great k/d as marines, but we'll still end up winning in the end.
When playing aliens do you make a conscious effort to draw out engagements as much as possible, especially when the numbers are in the marine's favour? I noticed quite often that you would bait the enemy marines into standing around longer, not building, and generally not pushing forward. Even if you don't end up killing them, you waste their time and allow the alien commander to expand unhindered.
On this point strofix, i guess it's as well all about not dying in Alien to save and preserve Eggs, which is a dangerous value when you start with Crag Hive for Cara to switch on Shade hive for Silence. Not even speaking of losing Life form, while marines can pick up weapons.
Dying as marines is not a handicap, as you mostly may be able to respawn and teleport to your point of death in less than 10 seconds.
While dying as an Alien make your team more vulnerable to eggs lock; and waste your time spawning in wave and running on the map.
The general consensus was that Archaeas only real advantage is there tremendous aim
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but in this thread I have read the overwhelming reasons behind Archaea's success are a combination of at least the following: great aim, positional awareness, strategic mastery, teamwork, good attitude, discipline, movement skills, a deep understanding of the game, and having a tight-knit squad who have been together for quite some time. I dare say there are many more factors too.
I'm really not sure that you're reading other people's posts...!
Also, the exploit comment was really rather misguided. Come on, you've been around games long enough to know that 'exploit' is one of those red flag words!
I say again, the person in this thread that has been the most understanding and least abusive is me.
Actually, that would be fanatic...
I have found it very interesting to hear from the far better players than me in this thread, and I also have to disagree that the match was boring. I watched the first round this morning before work and exclaimed to myself out loud afterwards something along the lines of 'that was absolutely epic, fantastic play from both teams and a great commentary and camera work, too!' I stand by that sentiment!
Ranged weapons, combined with near perfect aim, is simply going to win matches with NS2 being NS2.
There are other factors, but as long as you're shooting accurate bullets in the right rooms at the right times you're going to win.
They simply recognize and exploit those turning point moments faster than anyone else, while mowing down the competition with their accurate bullets. Having a team full of people that actually know what they're doing is the miracle.
They really showcase how things are balanced with a Marines bias if you can honestly shoot at top tier level.
Honestly, I'm surprised more top tier gamers don't troll NS2 for that reason. The LMG is a gigantic hand-job to the competitive community, if you ask me.
I typically like to wait a while before posting in my own thread again, but this is starting up slowly, so lets get some controversy rolling to get more input.
I accept that Fana is very good at aiming and flying around or whatever it is that he does. That is very nice and a very good thing for his team, but I cannot be lead to believe that that is why Archaea are so unstoppable. People with good aim are a dime a dozen in FPS games. Granted, people with bad aim are a nickel a dozen, but I promise you that right now, there is someone with NS2 in his steam games that is as good an aimer as Fanatic. I would wager that there are tens of such people. There is always someone better, but where are they? Why are they not playing?
Talent goes where the money and fame are, and neither of those things are associated with NS2. If this game had the install base to attract sponsors to put down a living wage for tournaments, it's entirely possible you would see them go down as the game would attract more talent and thus more competition.
Ranged weapons, combined with near perfect aim, is simply going to win matches with NS2 being NS2.
There are other factors, but at long as your shooting accurate bullets in the right rooms at the right times you're going to win.
They simply recognize and exploit those turning point moments faster than anyone else, while mowing down the competition with their accurate bullets. Having a team full of people that actually know what they're doing is the miracle.
They really showcase how things are balanced with a Marines bias if you can honestly shoot at top tier level.
Honestly, I'm surprised more top tier gamers don't troll NS2 for that reason. The LMG is a gigantic hand-job to the competitive community, if you ask me.
Except the Alien winrate is even HIGHER in competitive compared to pubs at the moment which is completely the opposite of what one would expect if what you were saying were true
Except the Alien winrate is even HIGHER in competitive compared to pubs at the moment which is completely the opposite of what one would expect if what you were saying were true
I'm going to go ahead and assume you'll be able to figure out from your own statement what incorrect assumption you're making.
Talent goes where the money and fame are, and neither of those things are associated with NS2. If this game had the install base to attract sponsors to put down a living wage for tournaments, it's entirely possible you would see them go down as the game would attract more talent and thus more competition.
This guy pretty much spelled it out for you though.
My personal opinion is when you play and lose to a team as often as teams like hg, nexzil do to archaea. There's a mental game involved. They play defensive straight away and slow to progress. You need to try remain offensive and waste as much time of the opposition as you can.
As aliens you have to try and force these great players into positions where they become vulnerable. While this is super hard to do to tane and fana it does occur at times. It's just teams aren't capitalizing on these. Where as archaea seem to just about capitalize on all mistakes made by there opposition.
Well played HG against archaea. I thought you guys had them in there first game on tram. Show's that you guys are getting close to winning your alien side against this superclan.
So basically what we've been seeing is that the better the players are, the more Aliens win... and you're asking me to believe if the players get even better, then we'll see more Marine wins. Yeah, no, I'm not going to buy that without some really good evidence.
If you brought in top players from other games, I don't think they'd be any better than the current top players like Fana or Tane.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but in this thread I have read the overwhelming reasons behind Archaea's success are a combination of at least the following: great aim, positional awareness, strategic mastery, teamwork, good attitude, discipline, movement skills, a deep understanding of the game, and having a tight-knit squad who have been together for quite some time. I dare say there are many more factors too.
I'm really not sure that you're reading other people's posts...!
I just went through every post in this thread, separating each that referred to a defining skill that Archaea had into two categories.
The first category is "Aim", the second is "Everything else", which contains teamwork, awareness, commanding, etc.
If a post refers explicitly to aim, it goes in the first category. If a post makes little or no mention of aim, it goes in the second category. If a post makes mention of both aim, and factors from the "everything else" category, but puts explicit emphasis on aim, it goes in both. An example of this would be "Aim is definitely the most important factor, but it isn't everything".
Total Posts: 166
Aim: 23
Everything else: 16 (quite a few of these were from me)
That may not exactly be a consensus, but I think you can see why I interpreted it as such. You can also tell how much non constructive posting when on, since only 39 posts of 166 referred to the thread topic.
As long as people think that just superior aiming will make us better, we don’t have anything to fear. I wouldn’t enjoy playing video games if there wasn’t room for creativity. Skill is complex thingly and players who reduce it to only few factors will never be good players.
What comes to hours, being top at NS2 hasn’t push me to train that much. I have 398 hours logged for NS2 in total and 20 hours for last two weeks. I even have the worst FPS from Archaea players, I guess that makes me the worst shot in Archaea.
Comments
My biggest mistake, as you rightly pointed out, was disagreeing. The general consensus was that Archaeas only real advantage is there tremendous aim, which I personally did not accept as a valid reason. I made it abundantly clear that this was simply my own personal opinion, and that I thought that there was another reason. The mob mentality then kicked in, and most people decided that disagreeing with Archaeas aim being the only reason they were better was actually me saying that they don't have good aim. This was obviously not the case.
If you go through my posts, you will find absolutely nothing that warrants the backlash that occured in this thread. Even the exploit remark, which most people horrendously overreacted to and misinterpreted, I attempted to explain my wording, yet nobody really cared at that point, because they had already lit their torches and gotten out their pitchforks.
I say again, the person in this thread that has been the most understanding and least abusive is me. Nobody has afforded me the same luxuries though.
I play NS2, but I play maybe an hour a day, and not every day. I do a lot of other things. If I quit my job and played NS2 all day every day, Archaea would maybe eventually want me to join them. That will never happen.
There is one more factor that has not been discussed. That is that there is no draft. Players can be on any team they want. If you go out to the kickball field and all the athletic kids form an All-Star team and leave all the nerds on the other teams. Guess who is going to be unbeatable? What if one NFL team had all the players of the previous years Pro Bowl?
When there are only a handful of amazing NS2 players on earth, and most of them are on the same team, of course there are not too many people left to beat them. If you break up Archaea and force Fana and Tane to be on separate teams, then you'll see some craziness. Imagine them meeting each other at that first res node encounter. OH SNAP!!!
Why would they be the only ones? Maybe if we found out why they saw fit to dedicate there time to this game, we can use that information to get more people to do the same.
That graph is interesting, but you're drawing the wrong conclusions from it. One problem we (Archaea) often come across when playing against other teams who are used to playing against us, is that they stack their defences in an attempt to beat our "skill" with "tactics". Typically they'll build lots of hydras at their harvesters and only rush us in big groups, usually abusing the currently OP gorge to make certain engagements unwinnable for our marines. The problem with doing that is that while it gives you a nicer k/d graph, it doesn't actually help you in winning the game. These days we've pretty much just accepted that we won't always get great k/d as marines, but we'll still end up winning in the end.
When playing aliens do you make a conscious effort to draw out engagements as much as possible, especially when the numbers are in the marine's favour? I noticed quite often that you would bait the enemy marines into standing around longer, not building, and generally not pushing forward. Even if you don't end up killing them, you waste their time and allow the alien commander to expand unhindered.
Dying as marines is not a handicap, as you mostly may be able to respawn and teleport to your point of death in less than 10 seconds.
While dying as an Alien make your team more vulnerable to eggs lock; and waste your time spawning in wave and running on the map.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but in this thread I have read the overwhelming reasons behind Archaea's success are a combination of at least the following: great aim, positional awareness, strategic mastery, teamwork, good attitude, discipline, movement skills, a deep understanding of the game, and having a tight-knit squad who have been together for quite some time. I dare say there are many more factors too.
I'm really not sure that you're reading other people's posts...!
Also, the exploit comment was really rather misguided. Come on, you've been around games long enough to know that 'exploit' is one of those red flag words!
Actually, that would be fanatic...
I have found it very interesting to hear from the far better players than me in this thread, and I also have to disagree that the match was boring. I watched the first round this morning before work and exclaimed to myself out loud afterwards something along the lines of 'that was absolutely epic, fantastic play from both teams and a great commentary and camera work, too!' I stand by that sentiment!
There are other factors, but as long as you're shooting accurate bullets in the right rooms at the right times you're going to win.
They simply recognize and exploit those turning point moments faster than anyone else, while mowing down the competition with their accurate bullets. Having a team full of people that actually know what they're doing is the miracle.
They really showcase how things are balanced with a Marines bias if you can honestly shoot at top tier level.
Honestly, I'm surprised more top tier gamers don't troll NS2 for that reason. The LMG is a gigantic hand-job to the competitive community, if you ask me.
Talent goes where the money and fame are, and neither of those things are associated with NS2. If this game had the install base to attract sponsors to put down a living wage for tournaments, it's entirely possible you would see them go down as the game would attract more talent and thus more competition.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you'll be able to figure out from your own statement what incorrect assumption you're making.
This guy pretty much spelled it out for you though.
As aliens you have to try and force these great players into positions where they become vulnerable. While this is super hard to do to tane and fana it does occur at times. It's just teams aren't capitalizing on these. Where as archaea seem to just about capitalize on all mistakes made by there opposition.
Well played HG against archaea. I thought you guys had them in there first game on tram. Show's that you guys are getting close to winning your alien side against this superclan.
If you brought in top players from other games, I don't think they'd be any better than the current top players like Fana or Tane.
I just went through every post in this thread, separating each that referred to a defining skill that Archaea had into two categories.
The first category is "Aim", the second is "Everything else", which contains teamwork, awareness, commanding, etc.
If a post refers explicitly to aim, it goes in the first category. If a post makes little or no mention of aim, it goes in the second category. If a post makes mention of both aim, and factors from the "everything else" category, but puts explicit emphasis on aim, it goes in both. An example of this would be "Aim is definitely the most important factor, but it isn't everything".
Total Posts: 166
Aim: 23
Everything else: 16 (quite a few of these were from me)
That may not exactly be a consensus, but I think you can see why I interpreted it as such. You can also tell how much non constructive posting when on, since only 39 posts of 166 referred to the thread topic.
I am going to be so pumped to see the FPV and other spectator stuff that's going to be revealed in the Finals.
What comes to hours, being top at NS2 hasn’t push me to train that much. I have 398 hours logged for NS2 in total and 20 hours for last two weeks. I even have the worst FPS from Archaea players, I guess that makes me the worst shot in Archaea.