Camo is the most effective upgrade in early game. The problem is that most people are not wise enough how to use it. And what they cant figured out that "suxxx" :>
IMO camo worst upgrade in the whole game, only regen comes close to being as useless. If you rush camo you risk never getting carapace for your fades.
What's the risk? If you go shade first, you ALWAYS should go Crag second. Its sort of a no-brainer choice, you need crag for your late game lifeforms and can't always guarantee a third hive, plus you don't need to worry about egglock on 2 hives ever so shifts are only useful for the forward eggs, which are good but not as good as forward crags.
You should be able to secure a second hive with any first tech in a pub game, and arguably Camo is probably the best choice for doing exactly that. If you can't secure a second hive and therefor can't get crag, whether or not your fades get carapace is probably the least of your worries.
Camo is good if marines dont realize it in the first few encounters, comm is somewhat slow and marines get passive while aliens secure 3 Hives.
If marines realize its camo and secure 2 additional hives with scans + obs its basically gg the second pgs are up at each hive. If marines are not retarded they get mines and shotguns and defend those two hives + 2/3 rts until JP/W3.
Early game, if the marines scan your camo skulks they just lost 3 team res to put you on exactly the same in-combat footing you would have been with shift, or better yet you can retreat, recamo, and bait another scan. If they don't scan they simply drop over dead. That res cost adds up fast.
Like Mr.Greedy, on the early game, killing a marine with camo is really really easy:
You can come in melee range freely without losing any health,
You can position yourself in the best way you want freely,
You can land TWO bites easily without the enemy noticing anything usually, because of the "lag" and the feedback not being good enough. If you have Silence, the marines sometimes don't even notice being bitten if they didn't see you and you don't block them, thanks to the hit feedback again.
If you move in pack and are organized, you can even do all that simultaneously on several marines at once. It's very disturbing and frightening.
If you manage to ambush them several times, it will be pretty hard mentally for them to go out of their base, and they will move a lot slower and it will be very difficult for them to expand. It's a very psychological weapon.
IMO camo worst upgrade in the whole game, only regen comes close to being as useless. If you rush camo you risk never getting carapace for your fades.
Who the hell goes shift 2nd with shade first? I mean yeah I've seen it once, but doesn't really happen.
And Fades are just fine with silence instead of cele or adren. Cele doesn't make you shadowstep any faster, doesn't help you in combat either. I'd actually rather have silence as a fade.
I can't tell if you quoted the wrong person...what did shift 2nd have to do with my post. Crag as third hive is awful, I don't know why you'd even bring that up.
Agree that fades can use silence to just as much or more of an advantage than adren.
Ps... You can get camo and move full speed. Evolve camo. Sit still till about 80% cloaked. Start running full speed. When done correctly you will be about 95%-99% invisible but retain full speed.
Proceed to run around marine feet. They hear you, but never see you. The reactions are hillarious.
Can upload a video later to demonstrate if requested.
Games rarely go into egg lock when Shade is online during early game
It's the opposite for celerity; aliens get back into combat faster and die recklessly increasing the likelihood for egglock
I don't think anyone goes early adrenaline
Also. . .
Might be moot now, but when cyst spamming was king laying shades all over the map with it would slow marine progress to a crawl
IMO camo worst upgrade in the whole game, only regen comes close to being as useless. If you rush camo you risk never getting carapace for your fades.
Who the hell goes shift 2nd with shade first? I mean yeah I've seen it once, but doesn't really happen.
And Fades are just fine with silence instead of cele or adren. Cele doesn't make you shadowstep any faster, doesn't help you in combat either. I'd actually rather have silence as a fade.
I can't tell if you quoted the wrong person...what did shift 2nd have to do with my post. Crag as third hive is awful, I don't know why you'd even bring that up.
Agree that fades can use silence to just as much or more of an advantage than adren.
MUCH more than adren actually. Silence is almost as powerful for a fade as Carapace is.
Both camo and silence can be easily countered by scans, obs and a watchful commander.
Silence isn't countered by scans, and it's great for disorienting marines and also not giving away your position when you have to escape. While it's true that, if scanned, you will appear on the marines' hud, that's not the primary bonus of silence and is brought about by sensible marine commanding.
I'm definitely going off shift first. I do like the extra mobility you get from celerity as a skulk in the early game, but early carapace can be really effective for the first few encounters - exactly where you want it as aliens. Add to that that if you can't get a 3rd hive, you will NEED carapace as one of your upgrades, it sort of makes sense to get it in first! While gorges really do benefit from adrenaline in the absence of a nearby shift, oni with camo and fades and lerks with silence are absolutely deadly - doesn't give the marines any warning that they're coming, and with the insane speeds of fade and lerk, that can be a massive boost to these life forms.
Silence is still fairly well countered by a combination of scans and actually looking at your minimap, scans alone just aren't a hard counter to silence.
IMO camo worst upgrade in the whole game, only regen comes close to being as useless. If you rush camo you risk never getting carapace for your fades.
Who the hell goes shift 2nd with shade first? I mean yeah I've seen it once, but doesn't really happen.
And Fades are just fine with silence instead of cele or adren. Cele doesn't make you shadowstep any faster, doesn't help you in combat either. I'd actually rather have silence as a fade.
I can't tell if you quoted the wrong person...what did shift 2nd have to do with my post. Crag as third hive is awful, I don't know why you'd even bring that up.
Agree that fades can use silence to just as much or more of an advantage than adren.
Because u said that before :
If you rush camo you risk never getting carapace for your fades.
That indicates that you are going crag @ third hive. Or are u meaning that if u get shade first u are unable to secure a second hive?
When you get scanned, instead of engaging like an idiot, run away and restealth and come back, make them waste another 3res. The cost of scanning constantly is actually massive.
The cost of not fighting in most situations like that is greater than the cost of fighting and dying. Willingly giving up map control and letting marines setup RTs because you don't have any useful upgrades in combat is always a horrible idea.
Your one chance with early Shade is a base rush, if you mess that up you lose. If marines own the map they can drop scans and obs all game with almost no impact, and camo is by far the worst upgrade for map control.
I admit I've never got the point of getting Silence. Later on I might use it because, then again, in the late-game you usually don't hide a lot as Aliens because you're pretty much winning the game in most cases already. But let's talk about early game.
Silence helps me to get close to marines unheard and it helps me to follow them unheard. Well, I can do pretty much the same with Carmouflage, just better.
1) Silence makes me inaudible. Being inaudible makes only sense if there are marines nearby who could hear me, so this feature only comes in handy in a situation where there is me and another marine at least.
2) As alien you usually know - thanks to vision and the fact that marines aren't silent - when there is someone nearby.
3) So what do I do in that situation? Well, either I can try to rush in or sneak in at full speed silently but visible. Usually I see no point in being at a marine a few seconds earlier, so I could just as well sneak at them.
4) When, as a skulk, it usually does not matter that much whether you can get close to a marine in 2 seconds or maybe in 5, because you sneak, I see no point in getting the extra advantage of being invisible.
Basically, I do simply no see what Silence can offer me what I can't get out of the combination of Carmouflage + Shift-button to sneak. You only cloak when you either get into a No-Go area or when you notice marines, so most of the time you're as fast as a skulk normally is and do not loose any momentum. If I notice marines I see no point in charging at them silently, in order to get a first bite on them unnoticed - which is pretty difficult if there's more than one marine and they don't look straight into one direction - instead of sneaking at them to take down one marine with ease and usually a second one at least.
I usually take Silence only at late-game when there's no point in getting Carmouflage because sneaky-time is over or as lerk it makes some sense because it's so darm hard to notice him some time. As a skulk, and therefore especially for the early game, I don't see the point of getting Silence at all. I don't know why, as I remember to use it frequently back in NS1 but then again in NS2 I hardly ever use it if Carmouflage is available. If I want to be silent in a certain situation, I just press Shift and I haven't to do even that because, thanks to Carmouflage, I sneak anyway If I want to get to someone unnoticed.
Of course you have a hard time with Carmou against a decent commander and marines but then again, I guess it constant scans pisses them more of than the fact that they cannot hear you because if that's what you want, just press Shift. Though, I think, being audible sometimes allows some nasty mindgames. I mean, it's marines vs. aliens after all and when you can hear something running around that is another way to slow down marines, just by merely being audible and scaring the shit out of them. At least early game, that works. Marines usually slow down when they hear aliens nearby.
IMO camo worst upgrade in the whole game, only regen comes close to being as useless. If you rush camo you risk never getting carapace for your fades.
Who the hell goes shift 2nd with shade first? I mean yeah I've seen it once, but doesn't really happen.
And Fades are just fine with silence instead of cele or adren. Cele doesn't make you shadowstep any faster, doesn't help you in combat either. I'd actually rather have silence as a fade.
I can't tell if you quoted the wrong person...what did shift 2nd have to do with my post. Crag as third hive is awful, I don't know why you'd even bring that up.
Agree that fades can use silence to just as much or more of an advantage than adren.
Because u said that before :
If you rush camo you risk never getting carapace for your fades.
That indicates that you are going crag @ third hive. Or are u meaning that if u get shade first u are unable to secure a second hive?
I meant you MAY (this is the case with EVERY type of hive) not get your second hive, then you're really fucked, even if you manage to turtle out until fades/onos, no cara and you're screwed.
Always have crag by at least hive two. It's the most important upgrade.
I admit I've never got the point of getting Silence. Later on I might use it because, then again, in the late-game you usually don't hide a lot as Aliens because you're pretty much winning the game in most cases already. But let's talk about early game.
Silence helps me to get close to marines unheard and it helps me to follow them unheard. Well, I can do pretty much the same with Carmouflage, just better.
1) Silence makes me inaudible. Being inaudible makes only sense if there are marines nearby who could hear me, so this feature only comes in handy in a situation where there is me and another marine at least.
2) As alien you usually know - thanks to vision and the fact that marines aren't silent - when there is someone nearby.
3) So what do I do in that situation? Well, either I can try to rush in or sneak in at full speed silently but visible. Usually I see no point in being at a marine a few seconds earlier, so I could just as well sneak at them.
4) When, as a skulk, it usually does not matter that much whether you can get close to a marine in 2 seconds or maybe in 5, because you sneak, I see no point in getting the extra advantage of being invisible.
Basically, I do simply no see what Silence can offer me what I can't get out of the combination of Carmouflage + Shift-button to sneak. You only cloak when you either get into a No-Go area or when you notice marines, so most of the time you're as fast as a skulk normally is and do not loose any momentum. If I notice marines I see no point in charging at them silently, in order to get a first bite on them unnoticed - which is pretty difficult if there's more than one marine and they don't look straight into one direction - instead of sneaking at them to take down one marine with ease and usually a second one at least.
I usually take Silence only at late-game when there's no point in getting Carmouflage because sneaky-time is over or as lerk it makes some sense because it's so darm hard to notice him some time. As a skulk, and therefore especially for the early game, I don't see the point of getting Silence at all. I don't know why, as I remember to use it frequently back in NS1 but then again in NS2 I hardly ever use it if Carmouflage is available. If I want to be silent in a certain situation, I just press Shift and I haven't to do even that because, thanks to Carmouflage, I sneak anyway If I want to get to someone unnoticed.
Of course you have a hard time with Carmou against a decent commander and marines but then again, I guess it constant scans pisses them more of than the fact that they cannot hear you because if that's what you want, just press Shift. Though, I think, being audible sometimes allows some nasty mindgames. I mean, it's marines vs. aliens after all and when you can hear something running around that is another way to slow down marines, just by merely being audible and scaring the shit out of them. At least early game, that works. Marines usually slow down when they hear aliens nearby.
I think you underestimate how many players use sound, either with Surround Sound or Headphones, to track skulks. Add in the fact that there is no counter other than looking at the skulk (either actually seeing it or seeing the Motion Tracking Circles) to silence. Often, with Silence, you can get right up behind a marine and bite him 2-3 times before they even know you are there. Camouflage also give aliens a false sense of security and inspires sloppier game play (lol they cant see me, I'll just creep right up and $#!+! I didn't see that OBS there! BLAM!!! Dead.) With Silence you still have to be stealthy.
When you get scanned, instead of engaging like an idiot, run away and restealth and come back, make them waste another 3res. The cost of scanning constantly is actually massive.
The cost of not fighting in most situations like that is greater than the cost of fighting and dying. Willingly giving up map control and letting marines setup RTs because you don't have any useful upgrades in combat is always a horrible idea.
Your one chance with early Shade is a base rush, if you mess that up you lose. If marines own the map they can drop scans and obs all game with almost no impact, and camo is by far the worst upgrade for map control.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Shade in itself is not a bad upgrade.
it is just that few players correctly use it.
Shade is ment to prevent marines getting map control, not to get map control back.
camo in pubs is irritating because comms always suck at dealing with it; it's manageable with a decent comm and players
shift sucks, celerity is the worst upgrade in the game, but adren is solid reason to get it 2nd (for gorge/fade). Newbs love celerity for god knows what reason.
Its only use is in theoretically defending against arcs but I hanv't actually seen anyone use it in that role. I will probably try to do so in the future.
This got cut. Either because of a bug, or a design decision. But Ink does not stop ARCs from targeting anymore.
Its only use is in theoretically defending against arcs but I hanv't actually seen anyone use it in that role. I will probably try to do so in the future.
This got cut. Either because of a bug, or a design decision. But Ink does not stop ARCs from targeting anymore.
I agree with the rest of your post.
have to hop in on this one.
unmodded server, last week. Kham kept ink up on there hive.
My arcs did not shoot. I got a rare few shots in, inbetween inks, but overal no shots fired.
It was in range, it did hit inbetween inks, and it took me 3 times as long (that khaam was spamming ink like a mad skulk).
I like the Shade, you can rack-up kills with Silence pretty easily, but you can also do this with pretty much the same result simply by walk-jumping. Most Marines are deaf and will never hear you when you do this. Camo is also pretty good, but most players I see use it in a terrible fashion, which is a shame because it has an absolutely amazing potential since there is no motion tracking in the game other than with the obs range or a scan.
Archaea has been using Shade quite effectively lately and I know that a Silence Fade or Lerk can decimate Marines if they do not pay attention.
itt: clueless people
shift sucks, celerity is the worst upgrade in the game, but adren is solid reason to get it 2nd (for gorge/fade). Newbs love celerity for god knows what reason.
What? I can't be the only one who feels adrenaline is a crutch for bad fades up against even worse marines. Are people holding down the blink button or what?
Marines with any aim at all will be hitting the fade hard to make him withdraw so what exactly is that extra energy going to do? Between tapping blink to get the initial acceleration and proper double jump/shadowstep energy should be mostly spent on swipes and if you are staying in combat long enough to be able to spend all that extra energy adrenaline gives you... well bluntly put, those are some pretty bad marines. Celerity affords you increased acceleration on your blink as well as greater speed on the ground. Even with the fact you lose it when hit or attacking it is still damn strong and allows the fade to exert greater presence on the map with less of an energy footprint. That map control combined with easier combat initiates make it a very strong upgrade despite its deficiencies compared to it's NS1 counterpart.
tl;dr - In my very strong opinion Adrenaline is a bad fade upgrade.
In terms of shade play, I'd like to see it more but with less camo openings. I feel like silence is the stronger upgrade due to how important sound is in a game like this. Taking away a crucial component of map awareness is such a strong tool for the alien team. When I saw it being used as the second hive in the Archaea games I got pretty excited to say the least.
Shift hive is quickly becoming unnecessary as you can see in the recent arc vs mercury games where both teams were employing shade second.
I think this is only strictly true in games where attempting to circumvent your opponents aim yields limited returns.
Also, fades are disproportionately more important in competitive games compared to ordinary games, and fades don't benefit much from shift.
I think this is the first time I've ever somewhat agreed with Strofix. Strictly speaking though, silence *does* circumvent the marines aim, since we're all using sounds to locate enemies as soon as they leave our screen. It does however give you a huge advantage on the tactical mobility front, knowing that you can move without the marines (or commander) hearing you jump around.
I don't think silence is stronger than celerity in a pub setting. Adrenaline is nonsense unless you're trying to sneak in a bilebomb rush.
1. Shift: I get to the *pressure zone* *faster*
Shade: I get there *slower compared to shade*
2. Shift: I enter combat with a faster velocity
Shade: I enter combat at a crawl
3. Shift: I am an Alien, my bonus is *mobility*, I have cele, I have + mobility
Shade: I am Alien, my bonus is *mobility*, I have silence, I get to combat *quietly* ... oh, I don't have silence, I have foolish camo, so I get ther with - mobility
4. Full stops at the end of sentances are good things for communication. How about, try Shade hive, and get SILENCE first.
5. Has ANYONE tried this, ever?
There's a lot wrong with this. Celerity is pretty crap. If it was persistently on, had an effect on lifeform movement abilities (blink, shadowstep, etc) and stayed on during combat, then yeah, it'd be great.
Shade gets you to the fight at the same speed as crag first, except now the onus is on the marine commander. Do I spend my precious 3 res on a scan or do I let these 3 marines potentially die.
Shade does not enter combat at a crawl, in fact, if you aren't getting scanned, there is no combat. The marines WILL die. Unless the aliens are a bunch of hurpadurps, if we put average vs average, the aliens will easily win the engagement, because its over before they can even react.
To be honest celerity is rather lackluster. Going shift first is great, but I'd be more inclined for adrenaline. Adrenaline is much more beneficial for fades.
If you're suggesting some kind of buff to camouflage I'd disagree, but I'd like to see some kind of fix on celerity.
The cost of not fighting in most situations like that is greater than the cost of fighting and dying. Willingly giving up map control and letting marines setup RTs because you don't have any useful upgrades in combat is always a horrible idea.
Your one chance with early Shade is a base rush, if you mess that up you lose. If marines own the map they can drop scans and obs all game with almost no impact, and camo is by far the worst upgrade for map control.
Risking fighting and dying VERSUS running away for 10sec, forcing marines either to spend another 3 res for a scan or getting killed? Seriously now. Running away for 10sec isn't "giving up map control".
One chance with shade is a base rush? What the hell is this? What does shade have to do with rushing base? Camo worst for map control? WHY. YOU'RE PULLING THIS OUT OF YOUR *SS.
Just utterly horrible post. Learn to recognize when you're not trying to make an argument and instead are just passing out your opinions as facts. Spoiler alert: THEY'RE NOT.
itt: clueless people
shift sucks, celerity is the worst upgrade in the game, but adren is solid reason to get it 2nd (for gorge/fade). Newbs love celerity for god knows what reason.
What? I can't be the only one who feels adrenaline is a crutch for bad fades up against even worse marines. Are people holding down the blink button or what?
Marines with any aim at all will be hitting the fade hard to make him withdraw so what exactly is that extra energy going to do? Between tapping blink to get the initial acceleration and proper double jump/shadowstep energy should be mostly spent on swipes and if you are staying in combat long enough to be able to spend all that extra energy adrenaline gives you... well bluntly put, those are some pretty bad marines. Celerity affords you increased acceleration on your blink as well as greater speed on the ground. Even with the fact you lose it when hit or attacking it is still damn strong and allows the fade to exert greater presence on the map with less of an energy footprint. That map control combined with easier combat initiates make it a very strong upgrade despite its deficiencies compared to it's NS1 counterpart.
As someone who is much better than the fades that play in comp...no
You shouldn't absolutely need adrenaline to play, but it has a lot of benefits. There are types of attacks as fade that drain energy faster, but also lower marine hitrate significantly. These are much harder to do without adrenaline. Also, the ability to blink to escape bad situations is something that any fade, no matter how good, will have to do at some point (for example, after a marine gets a body block on you).
Celerity with blink is not faster than shadowstep+jump, and is totally useless on fade.
Camo is best used and most effective during early game. It forces the marine comm to waste early game res on scans and extra observatories. If the marine comm doesn't waste the res on scans, the aliens can just sneak right up to the marine feet and chop them down before they even have time to react.
As a result, it makes it harder for marines to expand to 2 additional tech points than celerity in early game, unless the aliens are just outclassed in skill. On the flip side if the marines should happen to be able to secure 2 other tech points, then having one of your hives being shade makes it more difficult than if it was shift.
As a marine, I find it much more annoying to fight against camo early game than celerity. As an alien, I could care less about having celerity early game because I just wall-jump around for extra speed.
The only real advantage to having shift hive first is if you think your team is just not skilled enough to handle camo and you think you'll need the extra eggs to prevent egglock or if you try a forward shift egg spawn to put more pressure on the marines.
Camo is best used and most effective during early game. It forces the marine comm to waste early game res on scans and extra observatories. If the marine comm doesn't waste the res on scans, the aliens can just sneak right up to the marine feet and chop them down before they even have time to react.
As a result, it makes it harder for marines to expand to 2 additional tech points than celerity in early game, unless the aliens are just outclassed in skill. On the flip side if the marines should happen to be able to secure 2 other tech points, then having one of your hives being shade makes it more difficult than if it was shift.
As a marine, I find it much more annoying to fight against camo early game than celerity. As an alien, I could care less about having celerity early game because I just wall-jump around for extra speed.
The only real advantage to having shift hive first is if you think your team is just not skilled enough to handle camo and you think you'll need the extra eggs to prevent egglock or if you try a forward shift egg spawn to put more pressure on the marines.
Now, here is my perspective on Shade first:
The marine team's strength is in moving in numbers and watching each others backs.
Smart marines, when facing Shade first, will be forced into the ideal strategy for the marines (staying in groups). Camo is hard countered by the presence of an OBS or a scan. Smart commanders will place Observatories in key locations to circumvent Camo. Once Camo is being countered with OBS placement and scans, Camo provides no other benefit, however, Shade first has no limited what your next option will be. This handicap can very easily prevent you from getting a third hive.
So in a nutshell, Shade/Camo first is almost like chasing Briar Rabbit into the Briar patch. You tacitly force marines into a better strategy.
Camo is best used and most effective during early game. It forces the marine comm to waste early game res on scans and extra observatories. If the marine comm doesn't waste the res on scans, the aliens can just sneak right up to the marine feet and chop them down before they even have time to react.
As a result, it makes it harder for marines to expand to 2 additional tech points than celerity in early game, unless the aliens are just outclassed in skill. On the flip side if the marines should happen to be able to secure 2 other tech points, then having one of your hives being shade makes it more difficult than if it was shift.
As a marine, I find it much more annoying to fight against camo early game than celerity. As an alien, I could care less about having celerity early game because I just wall-jump around for extra speed.
The only real advantage to having shift hive first is if you think your team is just not skilled enough to handle camo and you think you'll need the extra eggs to prevent egglock or if you try a forward shift egg spawn to put more pressure on the marines.
Now, here is my perspective on Shade first:
The marine team's strength is in moving in numbers and watching each others backs.
Smart marines, when facing Shade first, will be forced into the ideal strategy for the marines (staying in groups). Camo is hard countered by the presence of an OBS or a scan. Smart commanders will place Observatories in key locations to circumvent Camo. Once Camo is being countered with OBS placement and scans, Camo provides no other benefit, however, Shade first has no limited what your next option will be. This handicap can very easily prevent you from getting a third hive.
So in a nutshell, Shade/Camo first is almost like chasing Briar Rabbit into the Briar patch. You tacitly force marines into a better strategy.
Wow, you will need a lot of obs/scans then. Byebye armor/damage - upgrade. We had a good time.
Comments
What's the risk? If you go shade first, you ALWAYS should go Crag second. Its sort of a no-brainer choice, you need crag for your late game lifeforms and can't always guarantee a third hive, plus you don't need to worry about egglock on 2 hives ever so shifts are only useful for the forward eggs, which are good but not as good as forward crags.
You should be able to secure a second hive with any first tech in a pub game, and arguably Camo is probably the best choice for doing exactly that. If you can't secure a second hive and therefor can't get crag, whether or not your fades get carapace is probably the least of your worries.
Early game, if the marines scan your camo skulks they just lost 3 team res to put you on exactly the same in-combat footing you would have been with shift, or better yet you can retreat, recamo, and bait another scan. If they don't scan they simply drop over dead. That res cost adds up fast.
You can come in melee range freely without losing any health,
You can position yourself in the best way you want freely,
You can land TWO bites easily without the enemy noticing anything usually, because of the "lag" and the feedback not being good enough. If you have Silence, the marines sometimes don't even notice being bitten if they didn't see you and you don't block them, thanks to the hit feedback again.
If you move in pack and are organized, you can even do all that simultaneously on several marines at once. It's very disturbing and frightening.
If you manage to ambush them several times, it will be pretty hard mentally for them to go out of their base, and they will move a lot slower and it will be very difficult for them to expand. It's a very psychological weapon.
I can't tell if you quoted the wrong person...what did shift 2nd have to do with my post. Crag as third hive is awful, I don't know why you'd even bring that up.
Agree that fades can use silence to just as much or more of an advantage than adren.
Proceed to run around marine feet. They hear you, but never see you. The reactions are hillarious.
Can upload a video later to demonstrate if requested.
Games rarely go into egg lock when Shade is online during early game
It's the opposite for celerity; aliens get back into combat faster and die recklessly increasing the likelihood for egglock
I don't think anyone goes early adrenaline
Also. . .
Might be moot now, but when cyst spamming was king laying shades all over the map with it would slow marine progress to a crawl
MUCH more than adren actually. Silence is almost as powerful for a fade as Carapace is.
Silence is still fairly well countered by a combination of scans and actually looking at your minimap, scans alone just aren't a hard counter to silence.
Because u said that before :
That indicates that you are going crag @ third hive. Or are u meaning that if u get shade first u are unable to secure a second hive?
Marines don't mind being forced into complete map control and fighting aliens without cara
The cost of not fighting in most situations like that is greater than the cost of fighting and dying. Willingly giving up map control and letting marines setup RTs because you don't have any useful upgrades in combat is always a horrible idea.
Your one chance with early Shade is a base rush, if you mess that up you lose. If marines own the map they can drop scans and obs all game with almost no impact, and camo is by far the worst upgrade for map control.
Silence helps me to get close to marines unheard and it helps me to follow them unheard. Well, I can do pretty much the same with Carmouflage, just better.
1) Silence makes me inaudible. Being inaudible makes only sense if there are marines nearby who could hear me, so this feature only comes in handy in a situation where there is me and another marine at least.
2) As alien you usually know - thanks to vision and the fact that marines aren't silent - when there is someone nearby.
3) So what do I do in that situation? Well, either I can try to rush in or sneak in at full speed silently but visible. Usually I see no point in being at a marine a few seconds earlier, so I could just as well sneak at them.
4) When, as a skulk, it usually does not matter that much whether you can get close to a marine in 2 seconds or maybe in 5, because you sneak, I see no point in getting the extra advantage of being invisible.
Basically, I do simply no see what Silence can offer me what I can't get out of the combination of Carmouflage + Shift-button to sneak. You only cloak when you either get into a No-Go area or when you notice marines, so most of the time you're as fast as a skulk normally is and do not loose any momentum. If I notice marines I see no point in charging at them silently, in order to get a first bite on them unnoticed - which is pretty difficult if there's more than one marine and they don't look straight into one direction - instead of sneaking at them to take down one marine with ease and usually a second one at least.
I usually take Silence only at late-game when there's no point in getting Carmouflage because sneaky-time is over or as lerk it makes some sense because it's so darm hard to notice him some time. As a skulk, and therefore especially for the early game, I don't see the point of getting Silence at all. I don't know why, as I remember to use it frequently back in NS1 but then again in NS2 I hardly ever use it if Carmouflage is available. If I want to be silent in a certain situation, I just press Shift and I haven't to do even that because, thanks to Carmouflage, I sneak anyway If I want to get to someone unnoticed.
Of course you have a hard time with Carmou against a decent commander and marines but then again, I guess it constant scans pisses them more of than the fact that they cannot hear you because if that's what you want, just press Shift. Though, I think, being audible sometimes allows some nasty mindgames. I mean, it's marines vs. aliens after all and when you can hear something running around that is another way to slow down marines, just by merely being audible and scaring the shit out of them. At least early game, that works. Marines usually slow down when they hear aliens nearby.
I meant you MAY (this is the case with EVERY type of hive) not get your second hive, then you're really fucked, even if you manage to turtle out until fades/onos, no cara and you're screwed.
Always have crag by at least hive two. It's the most important upgrade.
I think you underestimate how many players use sound, either with Surround Sound or Headphones, to track skulks. Add in the fact that there is no counter other than looking at the skulk (either actually seeing it or seeing the Motion Tracking Circles) to silence. Often, with Silence, you can get right up behind a marine and bite him 2-3 times before they even know you are there. Camouflage also give aliens a false sense of security and inspires sloppier game play (lol they cant see me, I'll just creep right up and $#!+! I didn't see that OBS there! BLAM!!! Dead.) With Silence you still have to be stealthy.
Absolutely wrong and clueless post, congrats.
it is just that few players correctly use it.
Shade is ment to prevent marines getting map control, not to get map control back.
camo in pubs is irritating because comms always suck at dealing with it; it's manageable with a decent comm and players
shift sucks, celerity is the worst upgrade in the game, but adren is solid reason to get it 2nd (for gorge/fade). Newbs love celerity for god knows what reason.
carapace remains far and away the best upgrade
This got cut. Either because of a bug, or a design decision. But Ink does not stop ARCs from targeting anymore.
I agree with the rest of your post.
have to hop in on this one.
unmodded server, last week. Kham kept ink up on there hive.
My arcs did not shoot. I got a rare few shots in, inbetween inks, but overal no shots fired.
It was in range, it did hit inbetween inks, and it took me 3 times as long (that khaam was spamming ink like a mad skulk).
Archaea has been using Shade quite effectively lately and I know that a Silence Fade or Lerk can decimate Marines if they do not pay attention.
Says the guy that just figured out a week ago that turning mouse accel off might be a good idea. At least you're on the right track though, baby steps
What? I can't be the only one who feels adrenaline is a crutch for bad fades up against even worse marines. Are people holding down the blink button or what?
Marines with any aim at all will be hitting the fade hard to make him withdraw so what exactly is that extra energy going to do? Between tapping blink to get the initial acceleration and proper double jump/shadowstep energy should be mostly spent on swipes and if you are staying in combat long enough to be able to spend all that extra energy adrenaline gives you... well bluntly put, those are some pretty bad marines. Celerity affords you increased acceleration on your blink as well as greater speed on the ground. Even with the fact you lose it when hit or attacking it is still damn strong and allows the fade to exert greater presence on the map with less of an energy footprint. That map control combined with easier combat initiates make it a very strong upgrade despite its deficiencies compared to it's NS1 counterpart.
tl;dr - In my very strong opinion Adrenaline is a bad fade upgrade.
In terms of shade play, I'd like to see it more but with less camo openings. I feel like silence is the stronger upgrade due to how important sound is in a game like this. Taking away a crucial component of map awareness is such a strong tool for the alien team. When I saw it being used as the second hive in the Archaea games I got pretty excited to say the least.
I think this is the first time I've ever somewhat agreed with Strofix. Strictly speaking though, silence *does* circumvent the marines aim, since we're all using sounds to locate enemies as soon as they leave our screen. It does however give you a huge advantage on the tactical mobility front, knowing that you can move without the marines (or commander) hearing you jump around.
I don't think silence is stronger than celerity in a pub setting. Adrenaline is nonsense unless you're trying to sneak in a bilebomb rush.
There's a lot wrong with this. Celerity is pretty crap. If it was persistently on, had an effect on lifeform movement abilities (blink, shadowstep, etc) and stayed on during combat, then yeah, it'd be great.
Shade gets you to the fight at the same speed as crag first, except now the onus is on the marine commander. Do I spend my precious 3 res on a scan or do I let these 3 marines potentially die.
Shade does not enter combat at a crawl, in fact, if you aren't getting scanned, there is no combat. The marines WILL die. Unless the aliens are a bunch of hurpadurps, if we put average vs average, the aliens will easily win the engagement, because its over before they can even react.
To be honest celerity is rather lackluster. Going shift first is great, but I'd be more inclined for adrenaline. Adrenaline is much more beneficial for fades.
If you're suggesting some kind of buff to camouflage I'd disagree, but I'd like to see some kind of fix on celerity.
Risking fighting and dying VERSUS running away for 10sec, forcing marines either to spend another 3 res for a scan or getting killed? Seriously now. Running away for 10sec isn't "giving up map control".
One chance with shade is a base rush? What the hell is this? What does shade have to do with rushing base? Camo worst for map control? WHY. YOU'RE PULLING THIS OUT OF YOUR *SS.
Just utterly horrible post. Learn to recognize when you're not trying to make an argument and instead are just passing out your opinions as facts. Spoiler alert: THEY'RE NOT.
nice shitposting, the funny thing is mouse accel isn't inherently bad. troll harder.
Properly executed camouflage usage is extremely devastating and takes little to no skill.
You shouldn't absolutely need adrenaline to play, but it has a lot of benefits. There are types of attacks as fade that drain energy faster, but also lower marine hitrate significantly. These are much harder to do without adrenaline. Also, the ability to blink to escape bad situations is something that any fade, no matter how good, will have to do at some point (for example, after a marine gets a body block on you).
Celerity with blink is not faster than shadowstep+jump, and is totally useless on fade.
As a result, it makes it harder for marines to expand to 2 additional tech points than celerity in early game, unless the aliens are just outclassed in skill. On the flip side if the marines should happen to be able to secure 2 other tech points, then having one of your hives being shade makes it more difficult than if it was shift.
As a marine, I find it much more annoying to fight against camo early game than celerity. As an alien, I could care less about having celerity early game because I just wall-jump around for extra speed.
The only real advantage to having shift hive first is if you think your team is just not skilled enough to handle camo and you think you'll need the extra eggs to prevent egglock or if you try a forward shift egg spawn to put more pressure on the marines.
Now, here is my perspective on Shade first:
The marine team's strength is in moving in numbers and watching each others backs.
Smart marines, when facing Shade first, will be forced into the ideal strategy for the marines (staying in groups). Camo is hard countered by the presence of an OBS or a scan. Smart commanders will place Observatories in key locations to circumvent Camo. Once Camo is being countered with OBS placement and scans, Camo provides no other benefit, however, Shade first has no limited what your next option will be. This handicap can very easily prevent you from getting a third hive.
So in a nutshell, Shade/Camo first is almost like chasing Briar Rabbit into the Briar patch. You tacitly force marines into a better strategy.
Wow, you will need a lot of obs/scans then. Byebye armor/damage - upgrade. We had a good time.
And there is still "silence" for mid/lategame.