Marines play RTS first, FPS second. It really doesn't matter how good your team is aiming, if you're not putting proper pressure on the alien economy from the get go you will lose no matter what. Marines are effectively playing against an alien economic timebomb and it just makes for horrible gameplay.
I find nearly the opposite to be the truth. Economy is important, no doubt, but most of the time the real cause of marine failures is that when two equal forces meet the aliens face stomp their adversary. I know this from personal experience because I can engage two average marines as a skulk and win most of the time, whereas when I play as marines I will struggle to win fights 1v1. Marines can reduce the effectiveness gap slightly by working together but they never match the effectiveness of an equal number of aliens. At the end of the day you can't beat the other team economically if you lose every confrontation with them.
If you hit a stronghold, don't waste too much time trying to break through. Adapt, move around, hit other targets. One of the biggest mistakes I see marines make quite often is getting sucked into a trench war on one side of the map while losing control of the other side.
I think this is a very, very underappreciated point, at least in pub games.
It's also an easy trap to fall into. The herd instinct will keep sending marines back into a contested area to support the ones that are still there. It takes a good commander (or field leader) to break them out of the spell, stop wasting manpower on a strongly-defended spot, and find a softer high-value target or simply an easier route around the defense.
Marines play RTS first, FPS second. It really doesn't matter how good your team is aiming, if you're not putting proper pressure on the alien economy from the get go you will lose no matter what. Marines are effectively playing against an alien economic timebomb and it just makes for horrible gameplay.
Yep, basically you have to stop them getting three hives (to stop onos eggs) and end the game before they hit 75 pres. Killing harvesters frequently greatly slows down their pres, giving you more time to tech up. You have to remember that aliens need pres (lifeforms) much more than tres. Aliens can comfortably win with just a carapace upgrade tbh, everything else is just luxury but unnecessary to winning the game. So even if their harvesters only pay for themselves before dieing, they're doing their job because the pres they pumped out won't be used to replant it. You have to kill their harvesters faster than they can replace them ideally, this will slow their pres economy to crawl speeds and should allow you an easy win since you'll have 15-20 minutes before onos come out. Once the onos come out it's a whole different story, that guy is scary yo.
a) kill Harvesters or prevent them from being built
b) secure and build Extractors
c) secure key locations to gain map control, in order to to do a) and b)
you are NOT doing any meaningful damage to Aliens.
A key thing to note about "secure and build Extractors" - The way to secure a new extractor is to take the room. The way to secure an EXISTING extractor is to take the NEXT room.
In one of my first games on Veil, I spent the entire game running to Skylights to save or rebuild the extractor there. I could tell even then that something wasn't right (definition of insanity and all that). The answer is that you don't get to keep Skylights until you take Overlook.
Rooms are not secured by having mines or sentries in the room. They aren't even secured by having marines in the room. Rooms are secured by having marines in the NEXT room.
For example:
If you're playing on Refinery.
If the aliens spawn in Turbine, take Containment instead of Pipeworks.
If they spawn in Containment, take Turbine, instead of Smelting.
a good Commander must make sure that Marines don't hold too many locations (so they have to defend all the time), that Marines stay together in bigger, more effective groups, and give a clear plan of what to attack next so you don't give aliens time to recover from the advantage that Marines have.
Another underappreciated point. I've been in some games where enough of the marines know what to do in general that they can quickly agree on a plan and then hit a single location in a large group without delay. But that's the exception. More often, marines will either a) go off in small groups to different locations or b) gather in a group in one location and then just kind of stay there. Both of these lose games.
A good commander will make sure that no marine ever even has the CHANCE to think to themselves "okay, what do I do now?"
Edit: by "small group" I mean "too small for the task at hand". Two skilled marines are enough to kill harvesters, but four mediocre marines are too few to take on a fortified position.
I find that there is a very simple answer to this question.
Buy mines.
If everybody actually gets mines, then you won't have as much trouble with regular pub skulks killing your extractors.
After that, get welders.
Every single marine should be welding each other. We did it in NS1, and it kept us up in the field. We could hold a siege for days with a couple of marines welding each other and getting medkit drops!
But seriously, once pub marines grasp these two ideas, marine wins will start going up in public games.
I'm glad at least one other person mentioned mines. But not in the way i hoped. To re-iterate what i said about mines to address some new posts, even good skulks can not avoid offensive mines. A few posts have mentioned that they have trouble as 3 marines vs 2 skulks or as 1 skulk they can take on 2 marines.
Now in both these scenarios let's assume at least 1 marine has purchased mines. These mines are to be placed in areas you expect a defense/ambush from aliens. ie you are approaching their harvester, expect aliens to be around. Begin to place mines and proceed to apply the harvester pressure. *BOOM* mine went off but did not quite kill a skulk. Turn around and put a single bullet in that skulk. It is noteworthy that standing on someone else's mine is overpowered because there is no friendly fire.
In the case that you are a skulk, 2 marines have reached your harvester. You proceed to defend that harvester. You get one bite in, *boom* you're dead.
Yep, basically you have to stop them getting three hives (to stop onos eggs) and end the game before they hit 75 pres. Killing harvesters frequently greatly slows down their pres, giving you more time to tech up. You have to remember that aliens need pres (lifeforms) much more than tres. Aliens can comfortably win with just a carapace upgrade tbh, everything else is just luxury but unnecessary to winning the game. So even if their harvesters only pay for themselves before dieing, they're doing their job because the pres they pumped out won't be used to replant it. You have to kill their harvesters faster than they can replace them ideally, this will slow their pres economy to crawl speeds and should allow you an easy win since you'll have 15-20 minutes before onos come out. Once the onos come out it's a whole different story, that guy is scary yo.
I will only disagree the last sentence. A 15-20 minute onos is not to be feared. A late onos means you have played the game right and have accumulated the appropriate tech to turn that onos into your personal gorgie b*tch.
Yep, basically you have to stop them getting three hives (to stop onos eggs) and end the game before they hit 75 pres. Killing harvesters frequently greatly slows down their pres, giving you more time to tech up. You have to remember that aliens need pres (lifeforms) much more than tres. Aliens can comfortably win with just a carapace upgrade tbh, everything else is just luxury but unnecessary to winning the game. So even if their harvesters only pay for themselves before dieing, they're doing their job because the pres they pumped out won't be used to replant it. You have to kill their harvesters faster than they can replace them ideally, this will slow their pres economy to crawl speeds and should allow you an easy win since you'll have 15-20 minutes before onos come out. Once the onos come out it's a whole different story, that guy is scary yo.
I will only disagree the last sentence. A 15-20 minute onos is not to be feared. A late onos means you have played the game right and have accumulated the appropriate tech to turn that onos into your personal gorgie b*tch.
I should have been more clear, I meant, IF you let the onos come out early because they had a lot of res, you have to play differently and will probably lose.
You can only go for an early ARC push if your team is capable enough to hold it's position without upgrades and other fancy tech. So that excludes most pub players.
The game really stands and falls with the marine player's skill level. Even the best commander can't help if the troops on the ground constantly miss, have no strategic awareness about harassing and expansion opportunities and lose 1 on 1 confrontations, which usually imply the death of yet another Extractor.
It is harder in practice because at the very beginning of every match the marines lose the initiative roll.
Why? Because in the 30 seconds it takes for marines to build extractors and power nodes, the aliens have already crossed the map and started attacking. And on a couple maps the Marine starting base is always the same. For the marines to regain initiative they need to win these early engagements, but since aliens are so mobile they dictate the time, place and size of the engagement.
Even if the Marines win and push forward to harass enemy RTs they still will send in rambo skulks which are usually pretty effective in taking down extractors. Even the loss of alien RTs doesn't seem like a huge deal to them since they usually just redrop.
I'm starting to think the best way is to stop worrying so much about taking early tech points for the first phase and instead go for a first phase gate that will cut off half of the aliens cyst chain from their starting hive. That will usually give them something that will force them to attack and if early enough should be defendable with mines.
Another idea is to skip over the nearby extractors initially in order to attack and then drop the nearby enemy RTs. You get a forward position to attack as well as defend your initial RTs (so you can't be easily rambo'd) but at the cost of early resources and high risk of the position being overrun.
Interesting how no one responded to his question about ARCs. I guess everyone thinks they're useless?
If my team is keeping up with the aliens in the first 10 minutes, I win with an arc push 9/10 times.
I like ARCs, you only need 3 or so to make a big difference in a hive push. I normally get all armor and weapon upgrades first as well as shotguns and jetpacks, but ARCs come before GLs/FTs (one only depending on whether aliens have whips or not). As for exos... yeh. I get asked for exos a lot and my response is nearly always "no, I'm getting arcs instead". Only time I get exos is if we are completely pwning the aliens, get exos for giggles.
As for res towers. So many marine teams go round the map in a circle, drop extractor, build extractor, move to next room, rinse repeat. In the mean time aliens are destroying the extractors at the back, so the marines run back and build them again... and lose the extractors at the front. In the mean time the aliens have taken all the other extractors and are sitting happy.
By all means build your two close extractors. But once they're done run across the map (both sides if you can) and kill the aliens extractors, then do it again, and again, and again. You don't need to build every RT point, they can be left empty! If you have less extractors it means less to defend, and you can get by just fine on 3 extractors as long as your keeping the aliens on 3 or less as well!
If you can hold another RT point great! But if you can't hold a RT, DON'T KEEP REBUILDING IT! It's so much better to just leave the point empty then it is to continually rebuild it.
It is harder in practice because at the very beginning of every match the marines lose the initiative roll.
Why? Because in the 30 seconds it takes for marines to build extractors and power nodes, the aliens have already crossed the map and started attacking. And on a couple maps the Marine starting base is always the same. For the marines to regain initiative they need to win these early engagements, but since aliens are so mobile they dictate the time, place and size of the engagement.
Even if the Marines win and push forward to harass enemy RTs they still will send in rambo skulks which are usually pretty effective in taking down extractors. Even the loss of alien RTs doesn't seem like a huge deal to them since they usually just redrop.
I'm starting to think the best way is to stop worrying so much about taking early tech points for the first phase and instead go for a first phase gate that will cut off half of the aliens cyst chain from their starting hive. That will usually give them something that will force them to attack and if early enough should be defendable with mines.
Another idea is to skip over the nearby extractors initially in order to attack and then drop the nearby enemy RTs. You get a forward position to attack as well as defend your initial RTs (so you can't be easily rambo'd) but at the cost of early resources and high risk of the position being overrun.
you're doing it wrong.
have a big marine push go sweep out extractors, while 1 marine trails behind them putting up rt's. 2 marines on the other side to sweep out flanking aliens. it is FAR more important to kill early alien extractors (since it takes around 2 minutes for them to grow unaided...meaning if you kill them within ~3 minutes of dropping, the aliens lose resources) than to put up your own.
1) Grab and hold territory in the early game, don't be stupid and push all the way to the alien hive unless you're trying for an early egg lock.
2) Push from 2 sides at once to split the aliens up and to take advantage of their lack of instantaneous transportation.
3) Pressure from an alien-side res node (ex. logistics if shipping is their hive on tram) - this denies them that res node and puts pressure on their hive.
4) Pray that your team has some self-appointed ninjas to kill alien res nodes and upgrade structures.
5) PG, mines, A1, W1, shotguns, A2/W2, 2nd comm chair, 3rd IP, W3/A3, AA, Proto, JP. This build order will change as the game progresses.
6) Fear the gorge rush, it WILL happen, you have to be mindful of the entrances to your bases and use proper PBS placement to cover those danger zones.
7) General rule of thumb - be aggressive as long as you have a forward base to push from. Sitting back and waiting for the aliens to rush you like in the Aliens movie will lead to a Game Over man, Game Over!
It is harder in practice because at the very beginning of every match the marines lose the initiative roll.
Why? Because in the 30 seconds it takes for marines to build extractors and power nodes, the aliens have already crossed the map and started attacking. And on a couple maps the Marine starting base is always the same. For the marines to regain initiative they need to win these early engagements, but since aliens are so mobile they dictate the time, place and size of the engagement.
Even if the Marines win and push forward to harass enemy RTs they still will send in rambo skulks which are usually pretty effective in taking down extractors. Even the loss of alien RTs doesn't seem like a huge deal to them since they usually just redrop.
have a big marine push go sweep out extractors, while 1 marine trails behind them putting up rt's. 2 marines on the other side to sweep out flanking aliens. it is FAR more important to kill early alien extractors (since it takes around 2 minutes for them to grow unaided...meaning if you kill them within ~3 minutes of dropping, the aliens lose resources) than to put up your own.
wiki says 45s which sounds reasonable. 2 minutes sounds kinda off. asides from that the strategy is solid. Trailing marines and respawning marines get build duty.
@briatx From your thought process I have to agree with Wheeee. There is a defensive mentality in which you worry about extractors being taken down. Trading RT kills is far more detrimental to alien economy. Rebuilding can be done in the strategy outlined by Wheeee. As for the loss of alien RTs, it is far more significant than what you make it to be. Each RT kill reduces the time it takes for a fade to pop out. Redropping is not all that great as you make it to be. If it happens to be taken down within 45s it's a huge setback of income and banked resources. Shifting any defense to this RT leaves others vulnerable.
Think of it as a game of chicken. Marines are taking down harvesters, aliens are taking down extractors. The first team to start playing defensively loses.
It is harder in practice because at the very beginning of every match the marines lose the initiative roll.
Why? Because in the 30 seconds it takes for marines to build extractors and power nodes, the aliens have already crossed the map and started attacking.
This is one of the biggest problems in regards to marine-alien balance. Everyone keeps saying it's a "learn to play" issue, and in many ways it is, but it mostly boils down to an difficulty issue. Aliens are simply easier to play. Playing as a marine you have to be responsible for building structures, repairing structures, and defending structures. Playing as an alien, you pretty much just find marines to kill or attack res nodes. Sure aliens have to defend their extractors and cysts as well, but at the speed at which they travel and re-spawn, death is hardly a deterrent when defending, seeing as lurks can just ninja around and harass res-nodes.
Marines simply have more to be responsible for, so by the time they build res-nodes and power in the early game, aliens are already harassing them, and marines are more likely to be pushed into turtling, which leads to a quick loss.
I only play pubs, and only on 8v8 or larger. Usually larger. So keep that in mind.
Marines MUST have a good comm. With an average comm, unless there is something wrong with the alien team, you are likely to lose. The marine comm needs to be able to watch the entire map and respond to issues very quickly. As some folks have said, always attack and push. Well that only works with support from the comm, because you will run out of bullets fast, and every bite you take is one you can't heal yourself (unlike a skulk who can run back to the hive).
Also, I love comms that are liberal with the armories. Place them in forward bases! They are cheap and will dramatically increase marine life span. It's easier for 2 marines to hold a location when they don't have to ration ammo and can use waves of bullets as a deterrent.
Rooms are not secured by having mines or sentries in the room. They aren't even secured by having marines in the room. Rooms are secured by having marines in the NEXT room.
Even then the said room is insecure because there will always be one skulk to back stab your RT's. For example, map Docking, rooms Cafeteria and Bar. Countless times I've seen marines just moved into Bar to build an extractor and BAM Cafe is under attack. Another example, is when marines make a heavy push into aliens territory. And despite its outcome, skulks will be harassing the rear buildings.
How I see it there is no secure room on the marines side at all. ( Unless the alien team is really bad )
Marines win, when the players know what they are doing and are very skillful with the guns and positioning. Everything below that is just food for the aliens.
Marines play RTS first, FPS second. It really doesn't matter how good your team is aiming, if you're not putting proper pressure on the alien economy from the get go you will lose no matter what. Marines are effectively playing against an alien economic timebomb and it just makes for horrible gameplay.
^^This.
+1 Except the horrible gameplay part. I still have fun.
Played a bunch of games last night, Marines won most of them. Good commanding and teamwork.
Marines play RTS first, FPS second. It really doesn't matter how good your team is aiming, if you're not putting proper pressure on the alien economy from the get go you will lose no matter what. Marines are effectively playing against an alien economic timebomb and it just makes for horrible gameplay.
^^This.
+1 Except the horrible gameplay part. I still have fun.
Played a bunch of games last night, Marines won most of them. Good commanding and teamwork.
Have to agree with it not being "horrible gameplay", I actually prefer the challenge marines face with the ticking clock, as opposed to the "hold on as long as we can" alien approach.
Marines play RTS first, FPS second. It really doesn't matter how good your team is aiming, if you're not putting proper pressure on the alien economy from the get go you will lose no matter what. Marines are effectively playing against an alien economic timebomb and it just makes for horrible gameplay.
^^This.
+1 Except the horrible gameplay part. I still have fun.
Played a bunch of games last night, Marines won most of them. Good commanding and teamwork.
Have to agree with it not being "horrible gameplay", I actually prefer the challenge marines face with the ticking clock, as opposed to the "hold on as long as we can" alien approach.
Indeed - just played a bunch of games on ENSL tonight (loving it! Even if now instead of being top of the server and 20:2, I'm middle/bottom of the server and 10:15), and marines won plenty of them by just this method. It's not horrible gameplay at all! By delaying the ticking clock you can get your tech up to deal with the one or two onos the aliens are likely to put out, at which point, provided you were sensible about your engagements, attacked key res nodes and defended only where really necessary, you have a really good shot at winning. More and more people are getting the hang of this. Now, if only I could get my aim back...!
From reading this information of this thread I've gathered a lot of good information and I've actually seen a few wins the last few days. Each win felt like a cliff climb to win the game though...
I'd have to conclude on the marines to win takes so much work and near perfect aim that it's ridiculous but it is fun. But after exploring lots of tactics and playing with players of all calibers on NS2 the game doesn't work for public play. The skill require to play marines just to compete cancels out more then half the community from small things such as very basic wall hoping.
NS2 would be fun to play with a group of people more like a scrim, but I'm not looking to do any league play or have a team just get on and play. So for people who are not going to play in a competitive scene NS2 just doesn't work. However if there was channels or chat setup where you could find a group of people for a match and then find a game with those people that would be a lot better then finding servers.
But from now on NS2 Marines public play is strictly to just practice aim and farm kills for me, I just don't ever see public matches really working except for those rare games where everyone in there server is at a high caliber of play.
use ur minimap and normal map (as a marine, not commander).... it's C... you can see them if they are in view orthe obs sees them. you can also see where your buildings and fellow marines are being attacked so you can back it/them up
From reading this information of this thread I've gathered a lot of good information and I've actually seen a few wins the last few days. Each win felt like a cliff climb to win the game though...
I'd have to conclude on the marines to win takes so much work and near perfect aim that it's ridiculous but it is fun. But after exploring lots of tactics and playing with players of all calibers on NS2 the game doesn't work for public play. The skill require to play marines just to compete cancels out more then half the community from small things such as very basic wall hoping.
NS2 would be fun to play with a group of people more like a scrim, but I'm not looking to do any league play or have a team just get on and play. So for people who are not going to play in a competitive scene NS2 just doesn't work. However if there was channels or chat setup where you could find a group of people for a match and then find a game with those people that would be a lot better then finding servers.
But from now on NS2 Marines public play is strictly to just practice aim and farm kills for me, I just don't ever see public matches really working except for those rare games where everyone in there server is at a high caliber of play.
Then you need to look no further than: www.ensl.org
It's public, but it's not pub play. Seriously, check it out!
Comments
I find nearly the opposite to be the truth. Economy is important, no doubt, but most of the time the real cause of marine failures is that when two equal forces meet the aliens face stomp their adversary. I know this from personal experience because I can engage two average marines as a skulk and win most of the time, whereas when I play as marines I will struggle to win fights 1v1. Marines can reduce the effectiveness gap slightly by working together but they never match the effectiveness of an equal number of aliens. At the end of the day you can't beat the other team economically if you lose every confrontation with them.
I think this is a very, very underappreciated point, at least in pub games.
It's also an easy trap to fall into. The herd instinct will keep sending marines back into a contested area to support the ones that are still there. It takes a good commander (or field leader) to break them out of the spell, stop wasting manpower on a strongly-defended spot, and find a softer high-value target or simply an easier route around the defense.
Yep, basically you have to stop them getting three hives (to stop onos eggs) and end the game before they hit 75 pres. Killing harvesters frequently greatly slows down their pres, giving you more time to tech up. You have to remember that aliens need pres (lifeforms) much more than tres. Aliens can comfortably win with just a carapace upgrade tbh, everything else is just luxury but unnecessary to winning the game. So even if their harvesters only pay for themselves before dieing, they're doing their job because the pres they pumped out won't be used to replant it. You have to kill their harvesters faster than they can replace them ideally, this will slow their pres economy to crawl speeds and should allow you an easy win since you'll have 15-20 minutes before onos come out. Once the onos come out it's a whole different story, that guy is scary yo.
This is also the way for aliens to win, aliens just do it naturally.
Basically NS2 is a highly complicated game of whack a mole with an FPS and commander interface stuck on the side.
A key thing to note about "secure and build Extractors" - The way to secure a new extractor is to take the room. The way to secure an EXISTING extractor is to take the NEXT room.
In one of my first games on Veil, I spent the entire game running to Skylights to save or rebuild the extractor there. I could tell even then that something wasn't right (definition of insanity and all that). The answer is that you don't get to keep Skylights until you take Overlook.
Rooms are not secured by having mines or sentries in the room. They aren't even secured by having marines in the room. Rooms are secured by having marines in the NEXT room.
For example:
If you're playing on Refinery.
If the aliens spawn in Turbine, take Containment instead of Pipeworks.
If they spawn in Containment, take Turbine, instead of Smelting.
Another underappreciated point. I've been in some games where enough of the marines know what to do in general that they can quickly agree on a plan and then hit a single location in a large group without delay. But that's the exception. More often, marines will either a) go off in small groups to different locations or b) gather in a group in one location and then just kind of stay there. Both of these lose games.
A good commander will make sure that no marine ever even has the CHANCE to think to themselves "okay, what do I do now?"
Edit: by "small group" I mean "too small for the task at hand". Two skilled marines are enough to kill harvesters, but four mediocre marines are too few to take on a fortified position.
Buy mines.
If everybody actually gets mines, then you won't have as much trouble with regular pub skulks killing your extractors.
After that, get welders.
Every single marine should be welding each other. We did it in NS1, and it kept us up in the field. We could hold a siege for days with a couple of marines welding each other and getting medkit drops!
But seriously, once pub marines grasp these two ideas, marine wins will start going up in public games.
Now in both these scenarios let's assume at least 1 marine has purchased mines. These mines are to be placed in areas you expect a defense/ambush from aliens. ie you are approaching their harvester, expect aliens to be around. Begin to place mines and proceed to apply the harvester pressure. *BOOM* mine went off but did not quite kill a skulk. Turn around and put a single bullet in that skulk. It is noteworthy that standing on someone else's mine is overpowered because there is no friendly fire.
In the case that you are a skulk, 2 marines have reached your harvester. You proceed to defend that harvester. You get one bite in, *boom* you're dead.
I will only disagree the last sentence. A 15-20 minute onos is not to be feared. A late onos means you have played the game right and have accumulated the appropriate tech to turn that onos into your personal gorgie b*tch.
"C'mon, SQUEAL. SQUEAL! EEEEEEEEEEEEE"
I should have been more clear, I meant, IF you let the onos come out early because they had a lot of res, you have to play differently and will probably lose.
If my team is keeping up with the aliens in the first 10 minutes, I win with an arc push 9/10 times.
The game really stands and falls with the marine player's skill level. Even the best commander can't help if the troops on the ground constantly miss, have no strategic awareness about harassing and expansion opportunities and lose 1 on 1 confrontations, which usually imply the death of yet another Extractor.
Guess you didn't read my post then.
It is harder in practice because at the very beginning of every match the marines lose the initiative roll.
Why? Because in the 30 seconds it takes for marines to build extractors and power nodes, the aliens have already crossed the map and started attacking. And on a couple maps the Marine starting base is always the same. For the marines to regain initiative they need to win these early engagements, but since aliens are so mobile they dictate the time, place and size of the engagement.
Even if the Marines win and push forward to harass enemy RTs they still will send in rambo skulks which are usually pretty effective in taking down extractors. Even the loss of alien RTs doesn't seem like a huge deal to them since they usually just redrop.
I'm starting to think the best way is to stop worrying so much about taking early tech points for the first phase and instead go for a first phase gate that will cut off half of the aliens cyst chain from their starting hive. That will usually give them something that will force them to attack and if early enough should be defendable with mines.
Another idea is to skip over the nearby extractors initially in order to attack and then drop the nearby enemy RTs. You get a forward position to attack as well as defend your initial RTs (so you can't be easily rambo'd) but at the cost of early resources and high risk of the position being overrun.
I like ARCs, you only need 3 or so to make a big difference in a hive push. I normally get all armor and weapon upgrades first as well as shotguns and jetpacks, but ARCs come before GLs/FTs (one only depending on whether aliens have whips or not). As for exos... yeh. I get asked for exos a lot and my response is nearly always "no, I'm getting arcs instead". Only time I get exos is if we are completely pwning the aliens, get exos for giggles.
As for res towers. So many marine teams go round the map in a circle, drop extractor, build extractor, move to next room, rinse repeat. In the mean time aliens are destroying the extractors at the back, so the marines run back and build them again... and lose the extractors at the front. In the mean time the aliens have taken all the other extractors and are sitting happy.
By all means build your two close extractors. But once they're done run across the map (both sides if you can) and kill the aliens extractors, then do it again, and again, and again. You don't need to build every RT point, they can be left empty! If you have less extractors it means less to defend, and you can get by just fine on 3 extractors as long as your keeping the aliens on 3 or less as well!
If you can hold another RT point great! But if you can't hold a RT, DON'T KEEP REBUILDING IT! It's so much better to just leave the point empty then it is to continually rebuild it.
you're doing it wrong.
have a big marine push go sweep out extractors, while 1 marine trails behind them putting up rt's. 2 marines on the other side to sweep out flanking aliens. it is FAR more important to kill early alien extractors (since it takes around 2 minutes for them to grow unaided...meaning if you kill them within ~3 minutes of dropping, the aliens lose resources) than to put up your own.
2) Push from 2 sides at once to split the aliens up and to take advantage of their lack of instantaneous transportation.
3) Pressure from an alien-side res node (ex. logistics if shipping is their hive on tram) - this denies them that res node and puts pressure on their hive.
4) Pray that your team has some self-appointed ninjas to kill alien res nodes and upgrade structures.
5) PG, mines, A1, W1, shotguns, A2/W2, 2nd comm chair, 3rd IP, W3/A3, AA, Proto, JP. This build order will change as the game progresses.
6) Fear the gorge rush, it WILL happen, you have to be mindful of the entrances to your bases and use proper PBS placement to cover those danger zones.
7) General rule of thumb - be aggressive as long as you have a forward base to push from. Sitting back and waiting for the aliens to rush you like in the Aliens movie will lead to a Game Over man, Game Over!
wiki says 45s which sounds reasonable. 2 minutes sounds kinda off. asides from that the strategy is solid. Trailing marines and respawning marines get build duty.
@briatx From your thought process I have to agree with Wheeee. There is a defensive mentality in which you worry about extractors being taken down. Trading RT kills is far more detrimental to alien economy. Rebuilding can be done in the strategy outlined by Wheeee. As for the loss of alien RTs, it is far more significant than what you make it to be. Each RT kill reduces the time it takes for a fade to pop out. Redropping is not all that great as you make it to be. If it happens to be taken down within 45s it's a huge setback of income and banked resources. Shifting any defense to this RT leaves others vulnerable.
Think of it as a game of chicken. Marines are taking down harvesters, aliens are taking down extractors. The first team to start playing defensively loses.
This is one of the biggest problems in regards to marine-alien balance. Everyone keeps saying it's a "learn to play" issue, and in many ways it is, but it mostly boils down to an difficulty issue. Aliens are simply easier to play. Playing as a marine you have to be responsible for building structures, repairing structures, and defending structures. Playing as an alien, you pretty much just find marines to kill or attack res nodes. Sure aliens have to defend their extractors and cysts as well, but at the speed at which they travel and re-spawn, death is hardly a deterrent when defending, seeing as lurks can just ninja around and harass res-nodes.
Marines simply have more to be responsible for, so by the time they build res-nodes and power in the early game, aliens are already harassing them, and marines are more likely to be pushed into turtling, which leads to a quick loss.
Marines MUST have a good comm. With an average comm, unless there is something wrong with the alien team, you are likely to lose. The marine comm needs to be able to watch the entire map and respond to issues very quickly. As some folks have said, always attack and push. Well that only works with support from the comm, because you will run out of bullets fast, and every bite you take is one you can't heal yourself (unlike a skulk who can run back to the hive).
Also, I love comms that are liberal with the armories. Place them in forward bases! They are cheap and will dramatically increase marine life span. It's easier for 2 marines to hold a location when they don't have to ration ammo and can use waves of bullets as a deterrent.
Even then the said room is insecure because there will always be one skulk to back stab your RT's. For example, map Docking, rooms Cafeteria and Bar. Countless times I've seen marines just moved into Bar to build an extractor and BAM Cafe is under attack. Another example, is when marines make a heavy push into aliens territory. And despite its outcome, skulks will be harassing the rear buildings.
How I see it there is no secure room on the marines side at all. ( Unless the alien team is really bad )
Marines win, when the players know what they are doing and are very skillful with the guns and positioning. Everything below that is just food for the aliens.
+1 Except the horrible gameplay part. I still have fun.
Played a bunch of games last night, Marines won most of them. Good commanding and teamwork.
Having much better players + favourable spawns seem to be the best way to do it.
Have to agree with it not being "horrible gameplay", I actually prefer the challenge marines face with the ticking clock, as opposed to the "hold on as long as we can" alien approach.
Indeed - just played a bunch of games on ENSL tonight (loving it! Even if now instead of being top of the server and 20:2, I'm middle/bottom of the server and 10:15), and marines won plenty of them by just this method. It's not horrible gameplay at all! By delaying the ticking clock you can get your tech up to deal with the one or two onos the aliens are likely to put out, at which point, provided you were sensible about your engagements, attacked key res nodes and defended only where really necessary, you have a really good shot at winning. More and more people are getting the hang of this. Now, if only I could get my aim back...!
I'd have to conclude on the marines to win takes so much work and near perfect aim that it's ridiculous but it is fun. But after exploring lots of tactics and playing with players of all calibers on NS2 the game doesn't work for public play. The skill require to play marines just to compete cancels out more then half the community from small things such as very basic wall hoping.
NS2 would be fun to play with a group of people more like a scrim, but I'm not looking to do any league play or have a team just get on and play. So for people who are not going to play in a competitive scene NS2 just doesn't work. However if there was channels or chat setup where you could find a group of people for a match and then find a game with those people that would be a lot better then finding servers.
But from now on NS2 Marines public play is strictly to just practice aim and farm kills for me, I just don't ever see public matches really working except for those rare games where everyone in there server is at a high caliber of play.
Then you need to look no further than: www.ensl.org
It's public, but it's not pub play. Seriously, check it out!