How does a huge bug like this not get noticed/fixed in the testing stage? : /
Not that I actually care, I think this is finally the kind of change that puts skulks on even footing with marines.
Any decent marine could do really well against skulks before the patch........ now they are just cannon fodder no matter how they try to play... There is no skill that can be achieved to take out a good marine player as a skulk now.
I went 42-7 last night as a marine (rest of team having like 18-12 scores), killing mainly skulks, where I know I would have died much more had movement been left untouched.
Hopefully, the patch to fix skulk movement will balance it out.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
I'm curious if it will...
its easier to track a continuous, predictable path at a fast speed (the bug) than something that changes/snaps directions instantly (the adjusted ground accel)
How does a huge bug like this not get noticed/fixed in the testing stage? : /
Not that I actually care, I think this is finally the kind of change that puts skulks on even footing with marines.
Any change no matter how small can have unintended side affects - that's the golden rule of coding. And when last minute tweaks are made to the build before release, things can be missed.
We did actually catch a major showstopper that only appeared on the last day, and that was pretty lucky. #:-S
@Savant
Yes I see what you mean, but like the people who answered you said: there's a difference between not doing something you shouldn't be doing (aka L2P Marine before 240), and having NO way to do something you eventually have to do.
You can't expect Skulks to only chew on buildings when a) Skulks need longer to get there because of map distances (it's the enemy territory/base after all) b) Marines can just phase in AND even beacon (and phase right back where the came from).. the times aren't even. Some time in the game you HAVE to attack Marines offensively, or at least be able to defend your Harvesters and bases.
Sorry but a stock as they spawn marine gets stronger and able to deal more damage.
The stock spawning alien skulk does not...it has to actually then go back to vulnerable egg state to get upgrades.
A stock spawning marine is not the same at the 5 second mark as he is at the 15 min mark...he spawns with weapons and armour upgrades.
Skulks do have to be useful all game...they now get 1 shotted by everything (lmg and pistol aside) even when fully upgraded.
The only alien that does not die faster than a xeno'ing skulk is onos. Fades are weak against anything more than 1 marine that can shoot.
Any decent marine could do really well against skulks before the patch........ now they are just cannon fodder no matter how they try to play... There is no skill that can be achieved to take out a good marine player as a skulk now.
I went 42-7 last night as a marine (rest of team having like 18-12 scores), killing mainly skulks, where I know I would have died much more had movement been left untouched.
Hopefully, the patch to fix skulk movement will balance it out.
pffff "no skill can kill a good marine player" poppycock... if i was playing a drinking game linked to the number of times a skulk killed a marine during the ~6 hours of NSL; i'd need a new liver.
Any decent marine could do really well against skulks before the patch........ now they are just cannon fodder no matter how they try to play... There is no skill that can be achieved to take out a good marine player as a skulk now.
I went 42-7 last night as a marine (rest of team having like 18-12 scores), killing mainly skulks, where I know I would have died much more had movement been left untouched.
Hopefully, the patch to fix skulk movement will balance it out.
How do we know skulks are not getting their arses whooped because they fixed the hit-reg??? There were so many games I shot skulks before the patch and know I hit them yet they still come. After months of trying to hone my aiming to kill them the reg box is fixed and now I can kill skulks.
I don't see how the game is unbalanced because marines can now kill when hitting them. Can't you see you now have to work and think to stay alive as an alien... the days of run-n-fun are over... they way it should have been from the start.
I do agree if skulks are not supposed to lose momentum or something when touching the ground then fix the bug.
pffff "no skill can kill a good marine player" poppycock... if i was playing a drinking game linked to the number of times a skulk killed a marine during the ~6 hours of NSL; i'd need a new liver.
please don't talk cobblers.
Sure, if you call having to team up on a marine to kill them as skill or consider waiting for marine in a dark corner to get close as skill......
Sorry but a stock as they spawn marine gets stronger and able to deal more damage. The stock spawning alien skulk does not...it has to actually then go back to vulnerable egg state to get upgrades.
Asymmetry my dear friend, asymmetry.
Skulks don't get more damage, no. They can STILL do 75 damage per bite, which is significant. Marine damage goes from 10 to 13 per bullet. Hardly earth shattering.
Despite damage boosts, the skulk still has superior DPS versus a marine no matter WHAT level damage upgrade he has.
Even then, carapace comes into play to offset some of that increased marine damage, just as armor upgrades do for marines. Yet again, aliens have the potential to gain their max armor potential far sooner than marines. However, the strength of the skulk doesn't come in more damage, it comes in more flexibility. Marines are stock. They are what they are - regardless of armor/weapon upgrades.
Skulks can customize their lifeform in many ways. Celerity, silence, camouflage etc. All of these alien traits are different tools that can be used based on the circumstances. That's what makes aliens unique.
Marines can't run silently.
Marines can't become invisible.
Marines can't regenerate health.
Marines can't gain a permanent speed boost.
I could go on and on. All of these traits are designed to allow an alien to use different tactics as the situation warrants it. That's where skulks really shine.
How does a huge bug like this not get noticed/fixed in the testing stage? : /
Not that I actually care, I think this is finally the kind of change that puts skulks on even footing with marines.
Any change no matter how small can have unintended side affects - that's the golden rule of coding. And when last minute tweaks are made to the build before release, things can be missed.
We did actually catch a major showstopper that only appeared on the last day, and that was pretty lucky. #:-S
In other words it happened because of the promised February date. They really need to stop digging themselves into these holes.
In other words it happened because of the promised February date. They really need to stop digging themselves into these holes.
Not necessarily. There are always last minute tweaks and changes as we try to get as many bugfixes in as possible. It's kind of inevitable.
Well, in that case it's a flaw in the release process - trying to squeeze in as many fixes as possible is a mistake if it means the finalized patch doesn't get tested properly. Ideally the patch should be completely unchanged for at least a day before it goes live.
Sorry but a stock as they spawn marine gets stronger and able to deal more damage. The stock spawning alien skulk does not...it has to actually then go back to vulnerable egg state to get upgrades.
Asymmetry my dear friend, asymmetry.
Skulks don't get more damage, no. They can STILL do 75 damage per bite, which is significant. Marine damage goes from 10 to 13 per bullet. Hardly earth shattering.
Despite damage boosts, the skulk still has superior DPS versus a marine no matter WHAT level damage upgrade he has.
Even then, carapace comes into play to offset some of that increased marine damage, just as armor upgrades do for marines. Yet again, aliens have the potential to gain their max armor potential far sooner than marines. However, the strength of the skulk doesn't come in more damage, it comes in more flexibility. Marines are stock. They are what they are - regardless of armor/weapon upgrades.
Skulks can customize their lifeform in many ways. Celerity, silence, camouflage etc. All of these alien traits are different tools that can be used based on the circumstances. That's what makes aliens unique.
Marines can't run silently.
Marines can't become invisible.
Marines can't regenerate health.
Marines can't gain a permanent speed boost.
I could go on and on. All of these traits are designed to allow an alien to use different tactics as the situation warrants it. That's where skulks really shine.
You can throw up DPS all you want...it ignores that it take aliens 3 perfect bites minimum to kill a marine...who can change direction and dodge a skulk better than a skulk can move.
No single alien can 1 shot a marine...not even Onos...yet marines have atleast 4 weapons that can 1 shot everything but the top two life forms (one of which can be 2 shotted).
Asymmetry my rear end...marines get harder to kill whilst aliens get easier....thats not asymmetry..thats bad game design.
Heck its why for about the last 8 or so months of hte beta we had people arguing for focus to return (so marines can die in less than 5 bites to a skulk).
Aliens cant beacon
Aliens dont get instant armour upgrades
Aliens dont get instant weapons upgrades
Aliens cant re-use p-res purchased items
Aliens cant get med packed anywhere in the map
See I can list areas of differenc too...they do nothing to address what has been an issue from NS1...which was why we focus was brought into the game back then.
To allow aliens a way to compete against a3 w3 marines late game and bring it back to ~3 bites to kill (from 5+).
Skulks need to be feasible late game....we cant have 1 side scale up and another side not....this makes game play heavily biased depending on duration of game.
Marines already have as much mobility as aliens...even early game you see marines dominating a map easier as shooting across a room is easier than trying to get across the room whilst being shot at.
Aliens cant beacon - They have Gorge tunnels
Aliens dont get instant armour upgrades - They can evolve to carapace as soon as it's available
Aliens dont get instant weapons upgrades - They can evolve to higher lifeform if they have the p-res
Aliens cant re-use p-res purchased items - They can destroy those weapons
Aliens cant get med packed anywhere in the map - They can get healed by a Gorge anywhere
We can do this all day. Asymmetry.
Marines have to build their structures manually
Marines have "alien win" power nodes in their bases
Marines don't have mobile observatories (drifters)
Marine Nanoshield only affects one player/structure, Umbra can cover everyone
Marines don't have a unit that has more health and armor than an entire 12 man Marine team combined
Shall we keep going back and forth? It's pointless. That's asymmetry. Advantages and disadvantages, both sides have them.
Sure, if you call having to team up on a marine to kill them as skill or consider waiting for marine in a dark corner to get close as skill......
Well, to be fair this game is all about teamwork, so yea, actually teaming up is nearly everything... also that's one of the reasons I like this game, because it's harsh to rambo like people doesn't mean you can't, but nine times out ten you'll fail going on your own. But I just think the Skulk is used incorrectly most of times I have to tell people to stop running into people's face most of the time from long distances, what I do is find something to hide while I getting shot at so they have to get close, then attack.
Last bit barely see people use the shift key, most people hear Skulk coming before they see it, giving ample time to respond!
pffff "no skill can kill a good marine player" poppycock... if i was playing a drinking game linked to the number of times a skulk killed a marine during the ~6 hours of NSL; i'd need a new liver.
please don't talk cobblers.
Sure, if you call having to team up on a marine to kill them as skill or consider waiting for marine in a dark corner to get close as skill......
that's just bs. you CLEARLY suggested that it was impossible to beat a marine. yet in those 6 hours of competitive matches there were plenty of times where 1 skulk killed 2 marines in a 1v2 situation; not to mention winning a fair number of 1v1 encounters.
it's always been marine favoured, as intended, but skulk still has a fair chance if you surprise the marine. what crappy skulks are experiencing post-patch is their predictable positioning/movement being sussed out more easily, ergo play smarter = you don't get sussed out.
Aliens cant beacon - They have Gorge tunnels
Aliens dont get instant armour upgrades - They can evolve to carapace as soon as it's available
Aliens dont get instant weapons upgrades - They can evolve to higher lifeform if they have the p-res
Aliens cant re-use p-res purchased items - They can destroy those weapons
Aliens cant get med packed anywhere in the map - They can get healed by a Gorge anywhere
We can do this all day. Asymmetry.
Marines have to build their structures manually
Marines have "alien win" power nodes in their bases
Marines don't have mobile observatories (drifters)
Marine Nanoshield only affects one player/structure, Umbra can cover everyone
Marines don't have a unit that has more health and armor than an entire 12 man Marine team combined
Shall we keep going back and forth? It's pointless. That's asymmetry. Advantages and disadvantages, both sides have them.
Its not asymmetry as I have said....its bad gameplay.
The marine base unit scales and is of use late game...a skulk is not.
Oh attack res...sure that will help fend of the JP's, Exo's or arc train.
Sorry but to say a skulk late game should go attack res is ignoring the fact that in this game you do eventually need to engage the enemy.
Oh attack res...sure that will help fend of the JP's, Exo's or arc train.
Yeah all those upgrades cost RESOURCES. No resources, no upgrades. The marines can hold 3 of 5 tech points and if aliens hold the other two, and have 4 more extractors on top of that, they're going to be kicking some marine ass in short order.
Sorry but to say a skulk late game should go attack res is ignoring the fact that in this game you do eventually need to engage the enemy.
I'm not saying late game skulks can't attack anything but extractors, what I am saying is that there is still a role for skulks in the late game. Ambush attacks, base attacks, power node attacks and more are something that cannot be understated. I can't count the number of times a marine team has lost a tech point because marines failed to respond to a base attack by a SINGLE skulk.
If that skulk makes marines return to base, those marines are now on the defensive.
The point is that how a skulk plays the game in minute # 1 is going to be VERY different than how a skulk plays the game in minute # 21.
@tarquinbb:
Good point. I've seen many successful skulks in the stream vids who hid up on the ceiling, called in their mates and then received their well-deserved rewards.
That's how you play a team game.
Its not asymmetry as I have said....its bad gameplay.
The marine base unit scales and is of use late game...a skulk is not.
Oh attack res...sure that will help fend of the JP's, Exo's or arc train.
Sorry but to say a skulk late game should go attack res is ignoring the fact that in this game you do eventually need to engage the enemy.
you're looking for the simple answer, that's why you're wrong. it's far more complex.
skulk DOES scale lategame with coordinated teamplay... because as the game goes on you become more and more dispensable which means you can take the heat off your expensive buddies at no cost. e.g. skulks killing shotgunners is a massive loss for marines, but shotgunners killing skulks is a given - you gain nothing.
in a tight game it's very unlikely that your entire team will be able to morph into higher lifeforms. realistically those higher lifeforms will steadily die and it takes time to regenerate that pres, therefore skulk is never in danger of being extinct. it's the larval-stage of kharaa.
skulk DOES scale lategame with coordinated teamplay... because as the game goes on you become more and more dispensable which means you can take the heat off your expensive buddies at no cost. e.g. skulks killing shotgunners is a massive loss for marines, but shotgunners killing skulks is a given - you gain nothing.
I'm sorry but you don't seem to understand what SCALING means. Your argument could just as well be applied to LMG marines, except that because of ACTUAL scaling they will do a much better job at fighting even higher level lifeforms. Skulks barely scale, at least not after second hive and cele/cara which is pretty early in to the game. The other day I actually had a green player ask in chat why he was constantly getting oneshotted as a skulk. I had to tell him that was pretty much a skulk's fate in the lategame, there's very little fun left in playing a skulk when you're facing off against JP/SGs/Exos with A and W 3.
This is a HUGE problem in my opinion, because the skulk is the class most players will end up playing the longest in any given game. Therefore skulks not having a high skill ceiling on top of having a high skill floor with poor scaling into the lategame is pretty detrimental to the enjoyment of that lifeform for the average player, and no doubt the reason why I have seen a lot of my friends quit the game.
We've only been saying this since the early days of beta, and I hate to be 'that guy' but I have to point out that NS 1 did a much better job in keeping the skulk enjoyable throughout the game.
skulk DOES scale lategame with coordinated teamplay... because as the game goes on you become more and more dispensable which means you can take the heat off your expensive buddies at no cost. e.g. skulks killing shotgunners is a massive loss for marines, but shotgunners killing skulks is a given - you gain nothing.
I'm sorry but you don't seem to understand what SCALING means. Your argument could just as well be applied to LMG marines, except that because of ACTUAL scaling they will do a much better job at fighting even higher level lifeforms. Skulks barely scale, at least not after second hive and cele/cara which is pretty early in to the game. The other day I actually had a green player ask in chat why he was constantly getting oneshotted as a skulk. I had to tell him that was pretty much a skulk's fate in the lategame, there's very little fun left in playing a skulk when you're facing off against JP/SGs/Exos with A and W 3.
This is a HUGE problem in my opinion, because the skulk is the class most players will end up playing the longest in any given game. Therefore skulks not having a high skill ceiling on top of having a high skill floor with poor scaling into the lategame is pretty detrimental to the enjoyment of that lifeform for the average player, and no doubt the reason why I have seen a lot of my friends quit the game.
We've only been saying this since the early days of beta, and I hate to be 'that guy' but I have to point out that NS 1 did a much better job in keeping the skulk enjoyable throughout the game.
skulk DOES scale lategame with coordinated teamplay... because as the game goes on you become more and more dispensable which means you can take the heat off your expensive buddies at no cost. e.g. skulks killing shotgunners is a massive loss for marines, but shotgunners killing skulks is a given - you gain nothing.
I'm sorry but you don't seem to understand what SCALING means. Your argument could just as well be applied to LMG marines, except that because of ACTUAL scaling they will do a much better job at fighting even higher level lifeforms. Skulks barely scale, at least not after second hive and cele/cara which is pretty early in to the game. The other day I actually had a green player ask in chat why he was constantly getting oneshotted as a skulk. I had to tell him that was pretty much a skulk's fate in the lategame, there's very little fun left in playing a skulk when you're facing off against JP/SGs/Exos with A and W 3.
This is a HUGE problem in my opinion, because the skulk is the class most players will end up playing the longest in any given game. Therefore skulks not having a high skill ceiling on top of having a high skill floor with poor scaling into the lategame is pretty detrimental to the enjoyment of that lifeform for the average player, and no doubt the reason why I have seen a lot of my friends quit the game.
We've only been saying this since the early days of beta, and I hate to be 'that guy' but I have to point out that NS 1 did a much better job in keeping the skulk enjoyable throughout the game.
i believe that it's you who can't comprehend the effect of asymmetry on scaling. obviously it can't be compared in a linear pattern unless you're proposing a boring linear scaling system for skulks. as for the pres retention, it's not so rare for 2 skulks to beat a shotgunner, but it's almost impossible for 2 LMG marines to beat a lerk/fade.
if it's so horribly broken as you seem to suggest, then why's the competitive win ratio almost completely balanced? why are skulks effective in competitive play? why do you not see marines playing 'eco' and running around with LMG and no gadgets?
the answer to all of those questions is; lategame skulks are at the very least on par with vanilla w3/a3 marines in a group scenario.
inb4: BUT THIS CANT HAPPEN BECAUYSE THEY DONT SCALE NOOOOOOOO *Brain explodes* - we have more than enough evidence to support the idea that synergy/coordination/teamplay wins over the asymmetrical upgrade dynamic.
Skulks barely scale, at least not after second hive and cele/cara which is pretty early in to the game. The other day I actually had a green player ask in chat why he was constantly getting oneshotted as a skulk. I had to tell him that was pretty much a skulk's fate in the lategame, there's very little fun left in playing a skulk when you're facing off against JP/SGs/Exos with A and W 3.
With respect, the issue many people overlook is that the role of the skulk doesn't remain the same throughout the whole game. If a person approaches the skulk with the idea that they can play the same way from the start of the game to the finish, they will be in for a rude awakening.
As I noted above, the skulk starts with superior DPS and it maintains that superior DPS throughout the game.
What happens as the game progresses is that it takes an additional bite (or two) to kill marines, and they also need fewer bullets to kill you. When that happens you need to alter your strategy. No longer can skulks just come running down a hall using the walls to mess up hit registration. Now that marine bullets are actually hitting the target people are learning that they need to be more stealthy. In the NSL games you can see how players were able to adapt to the changes, which is why 12 of the 16 games ended with 2-0 victories.
I'm confident that people just need time to adjust to this change.
We've only been saying this since the early days of beta, and I hate to be 'that guy' but I have to point out that NS 1 did a much better job in keeping the skulk enjoyable throughout the game.
Again, with respect, which NS1 were you playing? NS1 had major hit registration problems for the skulk bite. There are loads of videos where you could see the marine's ass in the skulks mouth and the bite wouldn't connect. This is why we have the bitecones in NS2, since these glancing bites are what would have been missed bites in NS1.
Then there were sentry farms that demolished skulks since they were allowed 8 per turret factory. On top of that the extractors and turret factory could be electrified, further diminishing a skulk's effectiveness. Then you had jetpacks which had way more thrust time. NS1 skulks suffered greatly.
Guys in all honesty, aliens have been overpowered for the past 4 months - that's a fact. And even in 240, marines only have a 57% advantage so far, with the walljumping bug in place. I'm seeing a lot of theorycrafting but not much in the way of explanation as to why aliens are actually really strong.
After 2 days of playing and about 15+ games, I have only seen 2 Marine wins. Different servers and mixes of players and im not seeing any Marine dominance due to any of the changes.
The Skulk feels very similar to 239 and if anything its the constant building (especially extractors) and having to defend, repair and re-build them that I feel is holding the marine game back. Veil is a prime example. No sooner have Skylights and Topo been built then Skulks are chewing them down forcing players straight back to defend them, stopping any expansion.
Anyway, the build is brand new, servers are full of new players and I cant believe people are complaining already. Give it a week at least to get used to the changes. As for all the drama queens in game with the constant moaning and the "goodbye cruel world" posts......grow up.
Sal
People complain. How do you get to this age and not understand that? And as far as I'm concerned, if people wish to express their dislike for a game before parting, that's better than them just saying FUCK THIS and leaving no feedback. I think if anyone needs to grow up, it's you.
I have bought many games that I didn't take too. I didn't go to the forums to complain as I just move on. They are games which are meant to be entertainment and fun. If people are not having fun then don't play, If those people want to leave feedback, then great but unfortunately its often very negative and just a rant.
The fact you had to use an expletive and the tone of your post shows that it is you who in fact needs to grow up.
Sure, if you call having to team up on a marine to kill them as skill or consider waiting for marine in a dark corner to get close as skill......
Teamwork and stealth are the two main skills that the alien team relies on in order to achieve victory.
I'll excuse this asinine remark as indicative of your frustration with l2p
The skulk has greater DPS, but how likely it to hit when the marines can pretty much hit as far as they can see while the skulk can't do any damage at all until they are >.5m of their target.
Comments
Not that I actually care, I think this is finally the kind of change that puts skulks on even footing with marines.
I went 42-7 last night as a marine (rest of team having like 18-12 scores), killing mainly skulks, where I know I would have died much more had movement been left untouched.
Hopefully, the patch to fix skulk movement will balance it out.
its easier to track a continuous, predictable path at a fast speed (the bug) than something that changes/snaps directions instantly (the adjusted ground accel)
Any change no matter how small can have unintended side affects - that's the golden rule of coding. And when last minute tweaks are made to the build before release, things can be missed.
We did actually catch a major showstopper that only appeared on the last day, and that was pretty lucky. #:-S
Sorry but a stock as they spawn marine gets stronger and able to deal more damage.
The stock spawning alien skulk does not...it has to actually then go back to vulnerable egg state to get upgrades.
A stock spawning marine is not the same at the 5 second mark as he is at the 15 min mark...he spawns with weapons and armour upgrades.
Skulks do have to be useful all game...they now get 1 shotted by everything (lmg and pistol aside) even when fully upgraded.
The only alien that does not die faster than a xeno'ing skulk is onos. Fades are weak against anything more than 1 marine that can shoot.
pffff "no skill can kill a good marine player" poppycock... if i was playing a drinking game linked to the number of times a skulk killed a marine during the ~6 hours of NSL; i'd need a new liver.
please don't talk cobblers.
How do we know skulks are not getting their arses whooped because they fixed the hit-reg??? There were so many games I shot skulks before the patch and know I hit them yet they still come. After months of trying to hone my aiming to kill them the reg box is fixed and now I can kill skulks.
I don't see how the game is unbalanced because marines can now kill when hitting them. Can't you see you now have to work and think to stay alive as an alien... the days of run-n-fun are over... they way it should have been from the start.
I do agree if skulks are not supposed to lose momentum or something when touching the ground then fix the bug.
Sure, if you call having to team up on a marine to kill them as skill or consider waiting for marine in a dark corner to get close as skill......
Skulks don't get more damage, no. They can STILL do 75 damage per bite, which is significant. Marine damage goes from 10 to 13 per bullet. Hardly earth shattering.
Skulk DPS: 167 (all game)
Marine DPS: 100 (W0), 110 (W1), 120 (W2), 130 (W3)
Despite damage boosts, the skulk still has superior DPS versus a marine no matter WHAT level damage upgrade he has.
Even then, carapace comes into play to offset some of that increased marine damage, just as armor upgrades do for marines. Yet again, aliens have the potential to gain their max armor potential far sooner than marines. However, the strength of the skulk doesn't come in more damage, it comes in more flexibility. Marines are stock. They are what they are - regardless of armor/weapon upgrades.
Skulks can customize their lifeform in many ways. Celerity, silence, camouflage etc. All of these alien traits are different tools that can be used based on the circumstances. That's what makes aliens unique.
Marines can't run silently.
Marines can't become invisible.
Marines can't regenerate health.
Marines can't gain a permanent speed boost.
I could go on and on. All of these traits are designed to allow an alien to use different tactics as the situation warrants it. That's where skulks really shine.
In other words it happened because of the promised February date. They really need to stop digging themselves into these holes.
Not necessarily. There are always last minute tweaks and changes as we try to get as many bugfixes in as possible. It's kind of inevitable.
Well, in that case it's a flaw in the release process - trying to squeeze in as many fixes as possible is a mistake if it means the finalized patch doesn't get tested properly. Ideally the patch should be completely unchanged for at least a day before it goes live.
No single alien can 1 shot a marine...not even Onos...yet marines have atleast 4 weapons that can 1 shot everything but the top two life forms (one of which can be 2 shotted).
Asymmetry my rear end...marines get harder to kill whilst aliens get easier....thats not asymmetry..thats bad game design.
Heck its why for about the last 8 or so months of hte beta we had people arguing for focus to return (so marines can die in less than 5 bites to a skulk).
Aliens cant beacon
Aliens dont get instant armour upgrades
Aliens dont get instant weapons upgrades
Aliens cant re-use p-res purchased items
Aliens cant get med packed anywhere in the map
See I can list areas of differenc too...they do nothing to address what has been an issue from NS1...which was why we focus was brought into the game back then.
To allow aliens a way to compete against a3 w3 marines late game and bring it back to ~3 bites to kill (from 5+).
Skulks need to be feasible late game....we cant have 1 side scale up and another side not....this makes game play heavily biased depending on duration of game.
Marines already have as much mobility as aliens...even early game you see marines dominating a map easier as shooting across a room is easier than trying to get across the room whilst being shot at.
Marines have to build their structures manually
Marines have "alien win" power nodes in their bases
Marines don't have mobile observatories (drifters)
Marine Nanoshield only affects one player/structure, Umbra can cover everyone
Marines don't have a unit that has more health and armor than an entire 12 man Marine team combined
Shall we keep going back and forth? It's pointless. That's asymmetry. Advantages and disadvantages, both sides have them.
Well, to be fair this game is all about teamwork, so yea, actually teaming up is nearly everything... also that's one of the reasons I like this game, because it's harsh to rambo like people doesn't mean you can't, but nine times out ten you'll fail going on your own. But I just think the Skulk is used incorrectly most of times I have to tell people to stop running into people's face most of the time from long distances, what I do is find something to hide while I getting shot at so they have to get close, then attack.
Last bit barely see people use the shift key, most people hear Skulk coming before they see it, giving ample time to respond!
that's just bs. you CLEARLY suggested that it was impossible to beat a marine. yet in those 6 hours of competitive matches there were plenty of times where 1 skulk killed 2 marines in a 1v2 situation; not to mention winning a fair number of 1v1 encounters.
it's always been marine favoured, as intended, but skulk still has a fair chance if you surprise the marine. what crappy skulks are experiencing post-patch is their predictable positioning/movement being sussed out more easily, ergo play smarter = you don't get sussed out.
Its not asymmetry as I have said....its bad gameplay.
The marine base unit scales and is of use late game...a skulk is not.
Oh attack res...sure that will help fend of the JP's, Exo's or arc train.
Sorry but to say a skulk late game should go attack res is ignoring the fact that in this game you do eventually need to engage the enemy.
I'm not saying late game skulks can't attack anything but extractors, what I am saying is that there is still a role for skulks in the late game. Ambush attacks, base attacks, power node attacks and more are something that cannot be understated. I can't count the number of times a marine team has lost a tech point because marines failed to respond to a base attack by a SINGLE skulk.
If that skulk makes marines return to base, those marines are now on the defensive.
The point is that how a skulk plays the game in minute # 1 is going to be VERY different than how a skulk plays the game in minute # 21.
Good point. I've seen many successful skulks in the stream vids who hid up on the ceiling, called in their mates and then received their well-deserved rewards.
That's how you play a team game.
you're looking for the simple answer, that's why you're wrong. it's far more complex.
skulk DOES scale lategame with coordinated teamplay... because as the game goes on you become more and more dispensable which means you can take the heat off your expensive buddies at no cost. e.g. skulks killing shotgunners is a massive loss for marines, but shotgunners killing skulks is a given - you gain nothing.
in a tight game it's very unlikely that your entire team will be able to morph into higher lifeforms. realistically those higher lifeforms will steadily die and it takes time to regenerate that pres, therefore skulk is never in danger of being extinct. it's the larval-stage of kharaa.
I'm sorry but you don't seem to understand what SCALING means. Your argument could just as well be applied to LMG marines, except that because of ACTUAL scaling they will do a much better job at fighting even higher level lifeforms. Skulks barely scale, at least not after second hive and cele/cara which is pretty early in to the game. The other day I actually had a green player ask in chat why he was constantly getting oneshotted as a skulk. I had to tell him that was pretty much a skulk's fate in the lategame, there's very little fun left in playing a skulk when you're facing off against JP/SGs/Exos with A and W 3.
This is a HUGE problem in my opinion, because the skulk is the class most players will end up playing the longest in any given game. Therefore skulks not having a high skill ceiling on top of having a high skill floor with poor scaling into the lategame is pretty detrimental to the enjoyment of that lifeform for the average player, and no doubt the reason why I have seen a lot of my friends quit the game.
We've only been saying this since the early days of beta, and I hate to be 'that guy' but I have to point out that NS 1 did a much better job in keeping the skulk enjoyable throughout the game.
True words
i believe that it's you who can't comprehend the effect of asymmetry on scaling. obviously it can't be compared in a linear pattern unless you're proposing a boring linear scaling system for skulks. as for the pres retention, it's not so rare for 2 skulks to beat a shotgunner, but it's almost impossible for 2 LMG marines to beat a lerk/fade.
if it's so horribly broken as you seem to suggest, then why's the competitive win ratio almost completely balanced? why are skulks effective in competitive play? why do you not see marines playing 'eco' and running around with LMG and no gadgets?
the answer to all of those questions is; lategame skulks are at the very least on par with vanilla w3/a3 marines in a group scenario.
inb4: BUT THIS CANT HAPPEN BECAUYSE THEY DONT SCALE NOOOOOOOO *Brain explodes* - we have more than enough evidence to support the idea that synergy/coordination/teamplay wins over the asymmetrical upgrade dynamic.
As I noted above, the skulk starts with superior DPS and it maintains that superior DPS throughout the game.
Skulk DPS: 167 (all game)
Marine DPS: 100 (W0), 110 (W1), 120 (W2), 130 (W3)
What happens as the game progresses is that it takes an additional bite (or two) to kill marines, and they also need fewer bullets to kill you. When that happens you need to alter your strategy. No longer can skulks just come running down a hall using the walls to mess up hit registration. Now that marine bullets are actually hitting the target people are learning that they need to be more stealthy. In the NSL games you can see how players were able to adapt to the changes, which is why 12 of the 16 games ended with 2-0 victories.
I'm confident that people just need time to adjust to this change. Again, with respect, which NS1 were you playing? NS1 had major hit registration problems for the skulk bite. There are loads of videos where you could see the marine's ass in the skulks mouth and the bite wouldn't connect. This is why we have the bitecones in NS2, since these glancing bites are what would have been missed bites in NS1.
Then there were sentry farms that demolished skulks since they were allowed 8 per turret factory. On top of that the extractors and turret factory could be electrified, further diminishing a skulk's effectiveness. Then you had jetpacks which had way more thrust time. NS1 skulks suffered greatly.
I have bought many games that I didn't take too. I didn't go to the forums to complain as I just move on. They are games which are meant to be entertainment and fun. If people are not having fun then don't play, If those people want to leave feedback, then great but unfortunately its often very negative and just a rant.
The fact you had to use an expletive and the tone of your post shows that it is you who in fact needs to grow up.
Sal
Teamwork and stealth are the two main skills that the alien team relies on in order to achieve victory.
I'll excuse this asinine remark as indicative of your frustration with l2p