I'm taking a entirely soul-destroying course in statistics right now...
Stay with it Squish! Attack that course full force! I thought it was soul destroying while I was studying statistics (and as a result, didn't retain as much as I would have liked). But of all the subjects I studied, I find it one of the most applicable in the real world/workplace. Now I find myself buying statistics textbooks on Amazon and reading them for pleasure. (Damn, I'm never gonna get la**.)
That's been an issue since launch, but yes, I am puzzled why there still aren't any whitelisted mods. It's crazy the things you have to do to run a server that doesn't get flagged - completely sacrifices all the advantages of their modding system.
We won't ever be white listing mods because if we did we'd be taking responsibility for code which we have no control over. White listing would be like saying "this is an official part of NS2". We do recognize there are issues with the current presentation of modded servers in the server browser and we have a plan to remove the stigma associated with running mods -- we just haven't had time to do it yet.
Running admin mods on a "non-modded" server is already possible though. It's not even hard, just a pain in the butt to maintain. These mods are used because the core game is missing a lot of critical admin functionality... Why not just incorporate some of this stuff into the game as has been done already for a number of other mods?
For starters, Skulks should try to avoid the straight-line floor running tactic if they ever hope to win.
This answer gets old This is what I mean:
1. You go to a Marine and take a tasty bite (Marine does not know you are there before the bite)
2. Marine moves (not even necessarily jumps, just strafes or whatever, but of course mostly they jump)
3. You can NOT keep up with the Marine in terms of speed
4. Marine shoots you right in the face, and laughs "...and I used to be SCARED of Skulks..."
What are Skulks supposed to do? Bite once, run away - even though the escape route is LONGER than the direct, shortest possible way to the Marine? Even though it is easier to shoot a fleeing Skulk that is no longer a danger on it's longer way than an attacking Skulk coming towards the Marine from where the Marine stood a second ago? That makes no sense.
It makes no sense that a ranged unit beats a melee unit even if the melee unit has covered the distance to the ranged unit unharmed. Which is my main problem with Skulks since 240 (not even talking about covering the distance against the new hitreg, that's quite ok).
I'm a shitty shooter and at least 50% of my deaths against a Skulk are when i bump into something which restricts my evasive moves (like a wall or some prop).
Thanks! That seems to be quite a change. Acceleration means how fast you gain speed, but when is acceleration reset? And what do the friction values do ingame? Lower friction results in a higher delay between direction changes (like the Skulk is "slipping")?
I have had the worst performance with the last two builds.
Your system requirements say 2GB for Win7 but this thing is eating everything up (I currently have 6GB total, order 16GB to swap soon) and I am lagging (temp freezing) all the time. It seems to get worse the more I've been playing. The game becomes completely unplayable eventually.
Thanks! That seems to be quite a change. Acceleration means how fast you gain speed, but when is acceleration reset? And what do the friction values do ingame? Lower friction results in a higher delay between direction changes (like the Skulk is "slipping")?
I'm not sure what you mean when when you ask "when is acceleration reset". friction definition is pretty correct, it's part of why movement feels floaty. the skulk acceleration change was intentional and is part of the movement overhaul. the "restricted speed while landing" was the bug which was removed.
I worded that wrong. I meant something like "when is your speed being reset?". For example, you run and turn a liiiiiittle - then you probably keep your speed. You run and turn around 180 - you probably start again from zero (which is where the halved acceleration comes into play, both for decelerating and accelerating). I mean you probably can't change your view arbitrarily while keeping your max speed.
This seems to be the issue. You can't keep up with Marines because you have to change direction during the attack, and that "resets your speed" (it's probably continuous so there is no "reset point" though) and when you have changed direction and go for it again your lowered acceleration means you aren't fast enough so the Marine can make the next evasive move. Something like that...
I felt like skulks moved like bricks in 240. After playing around with 241 everything seems "normal." Skulk movement seemed fine. It must have been a subtle change. I'm not sure I would have figured out there was a bug unless UWE told me so. :P
This whole situation is proof of a phenomenon I have tried to explain in balance threads in the past. That is, that NS2 is a very, very complex interdependent system and the tiniest changes can swing win probabilities significantly.
Its more proof that complex systems can usually be described or modeled based on a few, highly sensitive parameters. The difficulty is usually finding the correct parameters.
B240 gives strong evidence that changes to the skulks 'maintainable speed' is likely one those highly sensitive parameters.
Very well said. You should change your name to SmartyBob :-O
If nothing else, guys, I hope debating and analyzing NS2's mechanics has given you appreciation for how complex dynamic systems can be. If it's this complex in a game, imagine what it's like to run a company....or run a government?? Or be the Chairman of the Fed??? Ben Bernacke is like the lead designer of a huge game we call the US-mother-fucking-economy. And right now, balance is pretty b0rked
The skulk movement this fix addresses was a bug. The fact that it lead to a more balanced game is irrelevant...I Can't think of any game where a bug would be left in because it didn't break balance.
Statistics is one of the few collegiate subjects that has even modest applicability in the real world. It's a shame we don't teach it in high school.
Totally agree. I enjoyed this short TED talk in which the speaker says we should change the High School math curriculum to put statistics, rather than calculus, at the top.
I had basic statistics in high school. Really improved my poker game.
Anyway, this hotfix looks very good. Curious to see if it has any significant impact on balance.
I have had the worst performance with the last two builds.
Your system requirements say 2GB for Win7 but this thing is eating everything up (I currently have 6GB total, order 16GB to swap soon) and I am lagging (temp freezing) all the time. It seems to get worse the more I've been playing. The game becomes completely unplayable eventually.
Don't play at servers with > 20 players. Analyze what your bottleneck is. You can do this with the console command r_stats. You see your FPS and in the 2nd line how bad your GPU is. If the value is >0ms, turn down graphic options. If the value remains at 0 even in hectic battles, be sure that you chose a server that can hold the tick rate. (UWE officials are a sure bet.) With net_stats you can see if the server has problems in holding the 30 ticks. If it can't you CPU performance takes a huge hit.
@ Topic:
Skulk movement wasn't fun in 240. When you used proper wall jump before, it didn't hurt you while engaging marines. But as soon as the dance of death begins, you need to move on the ground and that felt very frustrating as skulk. Marine stacking in the RR was an obvious result.
If you try to balance a game, you have thousands of possible tweaks at your hand. You shouldn't use those, that remove fun from the game or introduce frustration. Despite the fact, that it wasn't the skulk vs marine - early game where aliens won. (Maybe with base rush, but this is a special case.) Aliens win most of the time when the onos comes out. So guess where to start tweaking the balance.
I (may) stand corrected, though it's impossible to know if the balance was the reason for not fixing it rather than lack of time/funds/ability etc.
Just to clear it out: Bunny-hopping which become an important mechanics, both in Quake where it originated and many other games since, was originally a physics flaw/bug that was embraced and integrated into gameplay instead of fixed. So yeah, they have a bit of a point.
I (may) stand corrected, though it's impossible to know if the balance was the reason for not fixing it rather than lack of time/funds/ability etc.
Just to clear it out: Bunny-hopping which become an important mechanics, both in Quake where it originated and many other games since, was originally a physics flaw/bug that was embraced and integrated into gameplay instead of fixed. So yeah, they have a bit of a point.
I have had the worst performance with the last two builds.
Your system requirements say 2GB for Win7 but this thing is eating everything up (I currently have 6GB total, order 16GB to swap soon) and I am lagging (temp freezing) all the time. It seems to get worse the more I've been playing. The game becomes completely unplayable eventually.
I have 4GB on Win7 and NS2 eats that up fairly quickly. If I move around the map too fast then I stutter too.
Weird bug I've had since Gorgeous. Screen image will suddenly freeze, but beneath, everything is normal I can move around and hear all the sounds. Minimizing then re opening game fixes it.
Clogs are really buggy in the new build. They are so fiddly to place, most of the time they show in red even putting one on top of another is a struggle.
Despite the fact, that it wasn't the skulk vs marine - early game where aliens won. (Maybe with base rush, but this is a special case.) Aliens win most of the time when the onos comes out. So guess where to start tweaking the balance.
You have to take into consideration the fact that prior to b240, skulks could often easily pin down the marines during the early game, preventing them from expanding/pressuring harvesters, which led to dominant alien map control and the inevitable onos overload. Not saying onos shouldn't be looked at. But the early skulkvsmarine play was definitely a determining factor that skewed balance in alien's favor.
Many thanks for the fix.
Hitting skulks with AR is now satisfyingly challenging. I miss quite a few cause I was never that greater shot, but when I hit them it's fair game at least, not like in 240 where even a poor shot like me could go 12-0 at the start of a game.
Most importantly playing as skulk is not a painful experience anymore.
Big improvement over 240.
I'm not sure if this is new since b241 or b240 but there is a bug as marine comm:
Previously when you selected a structure, unit or player and then held down shift and selected a second and then a third, all 3 would be selected. Now when you do the same, the first gets deselected and you are left with only the second and third. I think that's as clearly as I can describe it, try it in-game, using shift to select 3 or more things one at a time, you are left with all of them EXCEPT the first selected. This makes adding stuff to existing groups much harder as the group you select will get deselected when you click the next thing you wanted to add, even when you are holding down shift. Example - I have 2 ARCs set us group 5, another ARC pops out of the robo and I want to add it to the group, but when I hit 5, hold down shift, and select the new ARC, I am left with only the new ARC selected, where previously I would have all 3 ARCs selected so I could reset group 5, now if I hit the same combination of keys I would be left with just the 1 ARC in group 5 and 2 ARCs unassigned.
I also noticed that they added an 'idle worker' icon to the left of the bottom-right panel. That is a great addition! I don't know when that appeared (may have been months ago and I just never noticed). My question then is, if you have this icon that you can click to move your view to and select the idle worker, why can't all the control groups be clickable like this? Or even better, have the numbers be double-tappable on the keyboard to zoom to and select that group like in most RTS games, e.g. starcraft.
Loving the new, more-balanced NS2, thanks guys!
Edit: also - make it so you can cancel a beacon, please please please!
I'm not sure if this is new since b241 or b240 but there is a bug as marine comm:
Previously when you selected a structure, unit or player and then held down shift and selected a second and then a third, all 3 would be selected. Now when you do the same, the first gets deselected and you are left with only the second and third. I think that's as clearly as I can describe it, try it in-game, using shift to select 3 or more things one at a time, you are left with all of them EXCEPT the first selected. This makes adding stuff to existing groups much harder as the group you select will get deselected when you click the next thing you wanted to add, even when you are holding down shift. Example - I have 2 ARCs set us group 5, another ARC pops out of the robo and I want to add it to the group, but when I hit 5, hold down shift, and select the new ARC, I am left with only the new ARC selected, where previously I would have all 3 ARCs selected to set as group 5.
I also noticed that they added an 'idle worker' icon to the left of the bottom-right panel. That is a great addition! I don't know when that appeared (may have been months ago and I just never noticed). My question then is, if you have this icon that you can click to move your view to and select the idle worker, why can't all the control groups be clickable like this? Or even better, have the numbers be double-tappable on the keyboard to zoom to and select that group like in most RTS games, e.g. starcraft.
Loving the new, more-balanced NS2, thanks guys!
Have you tried holding down Ctrl and clicking on an Arc to select all of them? (What you described may still be a bug though, I'll give it a try.)
Comments
www.pof.com
You're welcome.
It should read
"to be built"
or "to build"
I haven't played heaps of the new build yet but everything looks like it's going in the right direction! Good job.
1. You go to a Marine and take a tasty bite (Marine does not know you are there before the bite)
2. Marine moves (not even necessarily jumps, just strafes or whatever, but of course mostly they jump)
3. You can NOT keep up with the Marine in terms of speed
4. Marine shoots you right in the face, and laughs "...and I used to be SCARED of Skulks..."
What are Skulks supposed to do? Bite once, run away - even though the escape route is LONGER than the direct, shortest possible way to the Marine? Even though it is easier to shoot a fleeing Skulk that is no longer a danger on it's longer way than an attacking Skulk coming towards the Marine from where the Marine stood a second ago? That makes no sense.
It makes no sense that a ranged unit beats a melee unit even if the melee unit has covered the distance to the ranged unit unharmed. Which is my main problem with Skulks since 240 (not even talking about covering the distance against the new hitreg, that's quite ok).
I'm a shitty shooter and at least 50% of my deaths against a Skulk are when i bump into something which restricts my evasive moves (like a wall or some prop). Thanks! That seems to be quite a change. Acceleration means how fast you gain speed, but when is acceleration reset? And what do the friction values do ingame? Lower friction results in a higher delay between direction changes (like the Skulk is "slipping")?
Your system requirements say 2GB for Win7 but this thing is eating everything up (I currently have 6GB total, order 16GB to swap soon) and I am lagging (temp freezing) all the time. It seems to get worse the more I've been playing. The game becomes completely unplayable eventually.
This seems to be the issue. You can't keep up with Marines because you have to change direction during the attack, and that "resets your speed" (it's probably continuous so there is no "reset point" though) and when you have changed direction and go for it again your lowered acceleration means you aren't fast enough so the Marine can make the next evasive move. Something like that...
Very well said. You should change your name to SmartyBob :-O
Anyway, just thought I'd share that thought :P
I had basic statistics in high school. Really improved my poker game.
Anyway, this hotfix looks very good. Curious to see if it has any significant impact on balance.
Don't play at servers with > 20 players. Analyze what your bottleneck is. You can do this with the console command r_stats. You see your FPS and in the 2nd line how bad your GPU is. If the value is >0ms, turn down graphic options. If the value remains at 0 even in hectic battles, be sure that you chose a server that can hold the tick rate. (UWE officials are a sure bet.) With net_stats you can see if the server has problems in holding the 30 ticks. If it can't you CPU performance takes a huge hit.
@ Topic:
Skulk movement wasn't fun in 240. When you used proper wall jump before, it didn't hurt you while engaging marines. But as soon as the dance of death begins, you need to move on the ground and that felt very frustrating as skulk. Marine stacking in the RR was an obvious result.
If you try to balance a game, you have thousands of possible tweaks at your hand. You shouldn't use those, that remove fun from the game or introduce frustration. Despite the fact, that it wasn't the skulk vs marine - early game where aliens won. (Maybe with base rush, but this is a special case.) Aliens win most of the time when the onos comes out. So guess where to start tweaking the balance.
I (may) stand corrected, though it's impossible to know if the balance was the reason for not fixing it rather than lack of time/funds/ability etc.
Just to clear it out: Bunny-hopping which become an important mechanics, both in Quake where it originated and many other games since, was originally a physics flaw/bug that was embraced and integrated into gameplay instead of fixed. So yeah, they have a bit of a point.
Well, now don't I look stupid... I knew that!
I have 4GB on Win7 and NS2 eats that up fairly quickly. If I move around the map too fast then I stutter too.
Clogs are really buggy in the new build. They are so fiddly to place, most of the time they show in red even putting one on top of another is a struggle.
You have to take into consideration the fact that prior to b240, skulks could often easily pin down the marines during the early game, preventing them from expanding/pressuring harvesters, which led to dominant alien map control and the inevitable onos overload. Not saying onos shouldn't be looked at. But the early skulkvsmarine play was definitely a determining factor that skewed balance in alien's favor.
Hitting skulks with AR is now satisfyingly challenging. I miss quite a few cause I was never that greater shot, but when I hit them it's fair game at least, not like in 240 where even a poor shot like me could go 12-0 at the start of a game.
Most importantly playing as skulk is not a painful experience anymore.
Big improvement over 240.
Previously when you selected a structure, unit or player and then held down shift and selected a second and then a third, all 3 would be selected. Now when you do the same, the first gets deselected and you are left with only the second and third. I think that's as clearly as I can describe it, try it in-game, using shift to select 3 or more things one at a time, you are left with all of them EXCEPT the first selected. This makes adding stuff to existing groups much harder as the group you select will get deselected when you click the next thing you wanted to add, even when you are holding down shift. Example - I have 2 ARCs set us group 5, another ARC pops out of the robo and I want to add it to the group, but when I hit 5, hold down shift, and select the new ARC, I am left with only the new ARC selected, where previously I would have all 3 ARCs selected so I could reset group 5, now if I hit the same combination of keys I would be left with just the 1 ARC in group 5 and 2 ARCs unassigned.
I also noticed that they added an 'idle worker' icon to the left of the bottom-right panel. That is a great addition! I don't know when that appeared (may have been months ago and I just never noticed). My question then is, if you have this icon that you can click to move your view to and select the idle worker, why can't all the control groups be clickable like this? Or even better, have the numbers be double-tappable on the keyboard to zoom to and select that group like in most RTS games, e.g. starcraft.
Loving the new, more-balanced NS2, thanks guys!
Edit: also - make it so you can cancel a beacon, please please please!
Have you tried holding down Ctrl and clicking on an Arc to select all of them? (What you described may still be a bug though, I'll give it a try.)