I share similar feeling about the maps. While I do like docking and descent (a lot) I feel ns2 is still missing the creepy and loneliness feelings some of the maps had in ns1. It very much felt like you were in hostile environment about to be attacked at any second on some of those maps you mentioned.
Seems like a case of nostalgia bias. I had tons of fun with NS1, but I also remember all of the problems/terrible matches that caused me to eventually lose interest.
People generally get nostalgia when the object of the nostalgia was good and memorable. NS2 is unfortunately forgettable. I have some amazing memories of NS1, and I won't of NS2.
Seems like a case of nostalgia bias. I had tons of fun with NS1, but I also remember all of the problems/terrible matches that caused me to eventually lose interest.
People generally get nostalgia when the object of the nostalgia was good and memorable. NS2 is unfortunately forgettable. I have some amazing memories of NS1, and I won't of NS2.
You will in ten years time. That's how nostalgia works.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I do think the OP has some points on the CC and the sneaking and everything.
But that makes NS2 different, not perse worse. NS1 had great matches, but other stuff was becoming blindly infuriating, although mainly community related like mods everywhere.
I have good fun in ns2 though.. its different, but I expected different. So mkay
1. Dropping comm chairs wherever you wanted.
2. The gritty look and feel of the NS1 maps. Dark and ambient, not bright and cartoonish.
3. Not running into the other team for several minutes into the game.
4. The larger maps.
5. Being able to ninja around the game.
#1: While it was nice in principle, it was flawed in practice. The problem was that with being able to put a comm chair anywhere the marines basically looked for the most biased location on the map to exploit. It becomes very hard to balance. It would have been nice to have more CHOICE in comm chair location compared to aliens. Asymmetry right? We could have restricted alien hives to one of 4 tech points and then allowed marines the ability to set up a comm chair at any one of 10 comm chair points. In this way you have your flexibility, but the points are set up with balance in mind.
#2: We have that now in some maps, but many people have to kill their video settings for sake of performance - which sucks that atmosphere right out of the game. Refinery is 'gritty', so is Mineshaft. However, I don't think we have to have either/or with respect to maps. Variety is good.
#3&4&5: These are pretty much the same, since the reason you may not have run into anyone was since the maps were large. Same for being able to ninja. With large maps it's harder for aliens to scout it all, and they didn't have drifters, only stationary sensory chambers *IF* they had them. I tend to agree with liking the bigger maps, which is why I like Mineshaft. The size is large, and there are many ways to cut up through the middle to 'ninja' in the alien controlled areas.
What I miss the most:
- Better alien upgrade system
- NS 1 Gorges
- Heavy Armour and HMGs
- Static siege cannons
- Webs
- Slower pace, much longer early game phase
- Relocs
- Proper sentries
Just to name a bunch of things, but anybody who's played NS 1 can attest to the fact that these contributed to making a MUCH better game in terms of gameplay. This is no nostalgia bias, it's just common sense.
Xarius has given an excellent summation of some of the things that were 'lost' in the transition to NS2.
What else do I miss?
-No 'Khamm': I was never a fan of this change since it really killed a huge chunk of game asymmetry. I could see allowing gorges to use overhead view for some things on an in-and-out basis, but having a Khamm changes the whole alien 'hive mind' mechanic.
-Aliens playing with purpose: Without a Khamm the aliens needed to work as a collective/cooperative. Who was saving for a hive? Who is dropping the first chamber? Who will drop a res node? Is someone scouting the other hives? Where are the marines now? Aliens had more to do than just rush and attack the marines.
-Forward bases: If aliens were lax on scouting, marines could sneak in a turret factory and secure a forward base near a hive that would cause them all sorts of trouble. Sentries couldn't be taken down with a sneeze either.
-Electrified res nodes: These helped to extend the early game, which is painfully short right now. It almost feels like the marine game is a sprint now, and that means you don't get much chance to appreciate the game.
-Taller rooms and higher hives: Does anyone feel that with hives so low they just don't seem as... menacing? I don't know. As it stands, with the hives sinking below the floor, it just means that this is one less tactic that needs to be employed. In NS1 the height/location of the hive often changed the way marines had to assault that particular hive. It was much harder in some cases, and that is something I miss.
-Vertical dimension on maps: While Descent has taken a step in that direction, all of the current maps seem so 'flat' compared to the NS1 maps. Yeah there are the odd set of stairs and such, but what happened to elevators, ladders, long ramps, alternate levels... They seem so rare now.
-Interactive elements on maps: Another thing I miss are working doors that triggered off a switch. Or elevators. Or airlocks. Weldables are another thing I miss. (although they are supposedly coming soon)
Now none of this is to say I dislike NS2 at all. NS2 is still a great game. Dynamic infestation does help to make the map feel like it really is being 'invaded'. If NS1 was still active, would I shun NS2 for NS1...? Absolutely not. NS2 is a great game - but I do miss some aspects from NS1.
@DarkATi - I awesomed your post, not because I agree with it (I never played NS1 so I have no basis for comparison) but because I really appreciate the way you expressed your relative dissatisfaction with NS2.
For my part, I am hoping that / am confident that UWE will continue to reshape the game in the years to come, so as to add back some of the very best elements from NS1 that all these old-timers keep talking about, while further developing the game into something that exceeds both the past NS1 and the present NS2.
I think this game space has a lot of room for exploration and has the potential to be so much more than it is or ever has been before.
... and I think there will be plenty of room to satisfy a diversity of tastes while staying true to the fundamentals. You like new and shiny? Play Descent. You want pants-soiling and gritty? Play Refinery. Neither of those are quite right? Play a community map that suits you. Looking for a different flavor? Play a balance mod. Need a complete break? Play a gameplay mode mod.
Okay, yeah, the community is too small right now to have a huge amount of variety. But that will change in time as well. The community will grow, as we continue to reach out to players that might enjoy this kind of thing, and then show them a good time when they get here.
Metal ManJoin Date: 2011-11-13Member: 132717Members
I say UWE should hire this Xarius fellow and listen to everything he says, regardless of his programming/developing abilities. I read much more on these forums than I actually post but goddamn every thing you write is spot on. And not just from this thread. What kind of sane, logic-based universe are you from? Why isn't your mind warped and twisted with ignorance and irrationality like the rest of us? 18/f
People who argue that NS1 wasn't better than NS2 because we're just being nostalgic aren't getting it.
The greatness of NS1 was that there were so many different things you could do. So many different ways a match could turn out. The strategies, while not endless, were vast and I never got bored of it.
That's still somewhat the case in NS2, but much less so. There are less viable upgrade paths. There are less decisions on the part of teams on how to expand, due to being constrained by cysts and powernodes. There is less sneaking due to small maps and the aforementioned power/cyst mechanic. Most games play out the same way, depending on what your spawn location is - the only difference is who wins which engagements. That wasn't how it was in NS1.
NS2 brings a few new things to the table and I'm confident that it will work out eventually, but to say NS2 is a better game in its current state is just denial.
Of course, I never play NS1 anymore. I'm not good enough at it, and I do like the faster-paced combat of NS2. However I do miss some of the slow, tense moments in the original - I feel that NS2 suffers a little bit from too much action. There is no contrast to the heated desperate fights over an important expansion; no tense moments where you are just waiting for something to happen; no surprises when you run around an empty corridor for a minute only for an enemy to poke around the corner and make you jump the hell out of your seat.
Also, maps in NS2 are too bright. There are barely any dark corners. One of the things that made NS1 awesome was the ambiance of the maps. Dark corners.
NS1 maps were unparalleled in their depth, literally. It was what created the immersion. Remember maps like NS_NOTHING, NS_BAST ??? Epic! Bast literally felt like you were battling aboard the USS nostromo. NS_Nothing felt like you were in a classic match of the centuries.
I definitely agree that the maps in NS2 just aren't as good as the maps from NS1. I don't think it's odd that one of the best NS2 maps is veil.
Despite Veil not feeling exactly like NS1, it at least is a great map which makes for great matches.
I played a lot of descent tonight, and I must say that it is a lot closer to the feel of the old NS1 maps. While it doesn't have necessarily the same gritty texture and atmosphere, it is a rather complicated and intricate map that the other NS2 maps just don't do. It's just bigger, and traveling in it is much more confusing and time consuming. The other NS2 maps seem to all have a focal point on them which opens up every single direction as a means of going somewhere. Need to get to the other side of the map? Well - you can almost always make a relative direct route there, especially with maps like Tram where you have a giant middle room which connects the entire map.
All of the new NS2 maps seem to have a relative shape that they keep to, and Descent has sort of strayed from that. Along with Veil of course.
Idk, I really would like to see some remade NS1 maps for NS2. I think that would satisfy a lot of people's nostalgia, and I also think it would give NS2 some of its best maps to be played on. There's something about the feeling of some NS1 maps that made it feel like you were really delving down into something. There was always a strangely eerie feeling to NS1. NS2 doesn't really have that feeling. It's a great game, I love the game and play it a lot - but yea. It isn't the same exact atmosphere and feeling.
Some of me partially blames the GoldSrc engine. There was something incredibly interesting about the GoldSrc engine that gave a certain atmosphere of emptiness and grim feeling that not even the Source engine could recreate.
We need some more NS1 maps remade, along with these new batches of maps as well. We definitely need a wider variety of maps, much like NS1 had when it had reached 3.0.
Edit: I also just wanted to add that many NS1 maps had a sort of descending feel to them. It many maps, in order to reach a hive location, marines often had to climb down or up ladders or take elevators that took them to a seemingly different elevation. NS2 maps just simply don't have that. We have props that we might be able to jump on or climb a ladder up, but aside from that, there isn't a huge sense of descending down into the depths of an alien invested area. You don't look behind yourself once you realize you're in a little too deep, and just see a dead end with just a ladder as your only escape - you see a giant gaping hallway for you to just start running down. A semblance or feeling of elevation within whatever area we're in doesn't seem to exist much in NS2.
Tbh, increasing graphical fidelity only gets you so far. While ns2 definitely looks and plays more immersive/atmospheric from an objective point of view, it comes at the cost of human imagination.
*edit*
I think the art in NS2 is stunning, and the problem here is not so much nostalgia but watching a scary movie for the second time.
There are some newish emitter entities in the map editor that allow triggering that have been in since Build 237 I think? Hopefully these will be improved and we can start using them more in maps. Right now I have played around with making buttons and using them to trigger cinematics but collidable cinematics aren't working properly so in terms of doors, weldable vents they just aren't there yet.
here is a video from Brian (Chops) showing it in action.
Seems like a case of nostalgia bias. I had tons of fun with NS1, but I also remember all of the problems/terrible matches that caused me to eventually lose interest.
I'm seriously tired of this nostalgia bias argument. Surely there's nostalgia involved for many people, but there's no denying that NS1 has loads of stuff going better than with NS2. NS1 a higher highs and lower lows kind of a game. NS2 is more of a milder middle ground game on lots of stuff.
What's even more important is that most of the frustrating stuff in NS1 is something you can overcome and often even learn to love. It doesn't matter that much even if you don't get a single bigger gun during a round because there's almost endless depth and enjoyment in how you can dance around with your starting LMG.
You are mixing up "nostalgia" and "nostalgia bias". Read the linked wiki-article. It is a proven psychological phenomenon and
2. The gritty look and feel of the NS1 maps. Dark and ambient, not bright and cartoonish.
is the most obvious point that this post is an example of it.
Just compare 2 screen shots of NS2 and NS1 and see what is looking cartoonish. It's simply your mind playing tricks on you, so this comparisons aren't really good for anything. Despite demotivating developers. If you really think NS1 is better than NS2, than you should play NS1 not talking about it.
That said, there sure is some missing freedom in NS2 in comparison to NS1 but if you want to change this, bring constructive ideas to bring this back fitting to NS2.
Just compare 2 screen shots of NS2 and NS1 and see what is looking cartoonish. It's simply your mind playing tricks on you, so this comparisons aren't really good for anything. Despite demotivating developers. If you really think NS1 is better than NS2, than you should play NS1 not talking about it.
I remember NS1 maps as a spectacle of architecture and innovation. Environments whose beauty was exceeded only by their gritty realism.
I was running around the maps the other day.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAH
I think people are confusing our nostalgic sentiment as a case of hate against NS 2. It's not, I reckon most of the players who criticise NS 2 the most will still agree it's a GREAT game. If I didn't love NS2, I wouldn't have spent almost 600 hours of gametime on it. And that's exactly why we are so passionate in their discourse on these forums, us 'nostalgics' have extensively played NS 1 and are, to some extent at least, rightfully disappointed at some of the things that made NS 1 great in our minds not making a come back.
We just want to make a game we love even better, not out of nostalgia but out of rationale, because we truly feel things like weldables, HAs, static sieges, lifeform strenght scaling, etc would make an even better game
yes, the maps in NS1 are dated. but at the time they were released they were FAR above what all other games had to offer (see: de_dust). That's what we remember. Obviously they are not going to hold up in a side-by-side comparison. NS2 maps are very high quality...I just wish they were bigger and had more dark places.
You know what I just remembered? The main power behind all of that atmosphere in NS1 was your flashlight being an awkward circle of light that clung to whatever surface you pointed it at.
Still love both games, just throwing that one out there.
I know many will tell me NOT to compare NS2 to NS1 but I can't do that. NS1 is why I joined the community 9 years ago. NS1 is why I bought NS2. I knew NS2 wouldn't be the same, but I hoped it would be just as fun in its own right.
I joined the community a long time ago too.
NS1 was fun.
NS2 is fun.
I think part of that is probably your age as well.
I know that things aren't as "fun" as they used to be when I was a teenager.
Responsibility does that.
OK, enough prefacing. Here are the things I miss the most:
1. Dropping comm chairs wherever you wanted.
2. The gritty look and feel of the NS1 maps. Dark and ambient, not bright and cartoonish.
It was graphically limited, which is why it looked the way it does.
Compared to the original Half-Life, Half-Life 2 looks cartoony.
As for brightness:
Play with the settings maxed out, and turn down the gamma on your monitor.
3. Not running into the other team for several minutes into the game.
That depended on the map, and the game size.
4. The larger maps.
I wish the maps in NS2 were bigger as well, but they're still pretty good maps.
I don't hate any of them.
I don't really have any maps that make me say "Awesome it's map X!"
5. Being able to ninja around the game.
You can still ninja around in NS2.
You just have to be more careful, and there's a higher chance that you're going to get caught.
My biggest disappointment is the style of the latest official maps. Don't get me wrong, docking and descent are beautiful! But they feel cartoonish. In fact, I think everything is more round and bubbly in NS2 and I don't like that personally. I miss the atmosphere of Hera, Bast, Nancy, Caged, and Nothing. There is no map that compares to any of these in NS2. None of the official maps have compelling soundscapes, at least not compared to NS1.
Docking is basically an airport, think about how airports/train stations look in real life.
All the official maps in NS1 were set in gritty enviroments.
Bast is still my favourite NS1 map.
I still remember the first time the Klaxxons went off.
Another thought: NS2 is sort of a mix of classic NS and Combat NS. That's a real problem, because if I wanted to play combat back in the day I wanted combat and not a classic match (and vice versa). In essence, I had a choice. But in NS2 I don't have an official choice, and this compromise has, in my opinion, destroyed the uniqueness of NS.
NS2 is a faster paced game than NS1, but it's not like Combat mode.
I'm not leaving the community.
I'm not complaining out of anger or frustration.
I'm just sharing my thoughts.
There is no expectation that anyone will do anything with them, but I wanted to make them available to the community.
UWE: You have done a good job with NS2. There is no doubt about that. Keep on working; I support you guys. Like I said, the game is good, but it isn't great yet. Hopefully, it will get there in time.
What do you think?
Blessings,
Cody
You're complaining that your new favourite game isn't as fun as your old favourite game, because you were expecting too much of it, and it didn't live up to your expectations.
I came into NS2 with the mindset of "Sweet, NS1 was awesome.", I didn't care what they'd changed as long as it was still an RTS/FPS hybrid with Marines vs Aliens.
As I stated already, the only thing that doesn't really wow me are the maps.
They're all decent, and I can't think of a map I hate.
I remember how marines were scared to go into a hive without a sizable backup. Now too often I see marines running into hives just to find and solo kill the upgrades/eggs.
Just as with the new map Decent, it hurts my eyes especially the club section. While I understand there’s a lot of work that goes into these maps, why do they have to look so pretty?
I remember how marines were scared to go into a hive without a sizable backup. Now too often I see marines running into hives just to find and solo kill the upgrades/eggs.
So...
Being ninjas?
Just as with the new map Decent, it hurts my eyes especially the club section. While I understand there’s a lot of work that goes into these maps, why do they have to look so pretty?
I haven't played descent yet.
My gaming computer is fried, but I ordered the parts today.
Should be up and running in 2-5 days(Friday, or Monday).
I remember how marines were scared to go into a hive without a sizable backup. Now too often I see marines running into hives just to find and solo kill the upgrades/eggs.
I don't think this has anything to do with aesthetics. You see lone wolfs running into hives more often because in NS2 there's simply more reason to do so. You can take out vital upgrades quite fast, or simply start shooting the eggs to egglock them. And with the smaller maps/sprint function, travel time to a hive is also shorter. You didn't have that in NS1, there the only real reason to move into a hive was simply to kill it.
I remember how marines were scared to go into a hive without a sizable backup. Now too often I see marines running into hives just to find and solo kill the upgrades/eggs.
I don't think this has anything to do with aesthetics. You see lone wolfs running into hives more often because in NS2 there's simply more reason to do so. You can take out vital upgrades quite fast, or simply start shooting the eggs to egglock them. And with the smaller maps/sprint function, travel time to a hive is also shorter. You didn't have that in NS1, there the only real reason to move into a hive was simply to kill it.
yeah, and if marines don't apply risque pressure moves then they usually lose the game by default.
talking of -most- public play, i think the problem is the lack of res. almost no one want's to buy a shotty or any weapon because you have to run the 75 res and buy the dual exo in order to try to win a game.
Same for the aliens. Loosing a fade means not doing anything else probably till the end of the game. i don't see many fades arounds used by not good players. same for the lerks
That makes the game quite annoying after some time
talking of -most- public play, i think the problem is the lack of res. almost no one want's to buy a shotty or any weapon because you have to run the 75 res and buy the dual exo in order to try to win a game.
Same for the aliens. Loosing a fade means not doing anything else probably till the end of the game. i don't see many fades arounds used by not good players. same for the lerks
That makes the game quite annoying after some time
I think this might be one of these l2p issues, because with time people get more experianced and more relaxed with their res.
After having played exo/onos several times, people start to realize it's not neccessarily woth it to save 20 mins and possibly loose the game in the meantime.
Just as with the new map Decent, it hurts my eyes especially the club section. While I understand there’s a lot of work that goes into these maps, why do they have to look so pretty?
It's Descent, not decent
Regardless. While we enjoy the gritty feel from the first set of maps released, we saw alot of potential for some cleaner assets, to give ns2 its own flavor. We really did not want to regurgitate the same mapset again, and with Descent came opportunities for themes that would never fly in a gritty environment. The chosen theme for Descent was a civilian space station that also had space-age industrial themes with it, as if its a colony in space that you might live on, or vacation on. With this comes the clean parts of Descent. There was possibility to leave some of the gritty stuff in the industrial sections, but it never seemed to mesh well with the rest of the themes. As artists we are always striving for creation, and making new and different things. There just came a time where ideas were running dry to keep new maps with that old texture set fresh. NS2 needed something different.
if marines ever lose a game where a bunch of guys were saving up for exo, they only have themselves to blame.
dual minigun exo suit versus 15 mines.... the mines are potentially faaaaaaaaaaaar superior as they will almost guarantee map control and a strong early/mid game. the late game is fubar if you have a weak early/mid game.
Comments
People generally get nostalgia when the object of the nostalgia was good and memorable. NS2 is unfortunately forgettable. I have some amazing memories of NS1, and I won't of NS2.
You will in ten years time. That's how nostalgia works.
But that makes NS2 different, not perse worse. NS1 had great matches, but other stuff was becoming blindly infuriating, although mainly community related like mods everywhere.
I have good fun in ns2 though.. its different, but I expected different. So mkay
#2: We have that now in some maps, but many people have to kill their video settings for sake of performance - which sucks that atmosphere right out of the game. Refinery is 'gritty', so is Mineshaft. However, I don't think we have to have either/or with respect to maps. Variety is good.
#3&4&5: These are pretty much the same, since the reason you may not have run into anyone was since the maps were large. Same for being able to ninja. With large maps it's harder for aliens to scout it all, and they didn't have drifters, only stationary sensory chambers *IF* they had them. I tend to agree with liking the bigger maps, which is why I like Mineshaft. The size is large, and there are many ways to cut up through the middle to 'ninja' in the alien controlled areas.
Xarius has given an excellent summation of some of the things that were 'lost' in the transition to NS2.
What else do I miss?
-No 'Khamm': I was never a fan of this change since it really killed a huge chunk of game asymmetry. I could see allowing gorges to use overhead view for some things on an in-and-out basis, but having a Khamm changes the whole alien 'hive mind' mechanic.
-Aliens playing with purpose: Without a Khamm the aliens needed to work as a collective/cooperative. Who was saving for a hive? Who is dropping the first chamber? Who will drop a res node? Is someone scouting the other hives? Where are the marines now? Aliens had more to do than just rush and attack the marines.
-Forward bases: If aliens were lax on scouting, marines could sneak in a turret factory and secure a forward base near a hive that would cause them all sorts of trouble. Sentries couldn't be taken down with a sneeze either.
-Electrified res nodes: These helped to extend the early game, which is painfully short right now. It almost feels like the marine game is a sprint now, and that means you don't get much chance to appreciate the game.
-Taller rooms and higher hives: Does anyone feel that with hives so low they just don't seem as... menacing? I don't know. As it stands, with the hives sinking below the floor, it just means that this is one less tactic that needs to be employed. In NS1 the height/location of the hive often changed the way marines had to assault that particular hive. It was much harder in some cases, and that is something I miss.
-Vertical dimension on maps: While Descent has taken a step in that direction, all of the current maps seem so 'flat' compared to the NS1 maps. Yeah there are the odd set of stairs and such, but what happened to elevators, ladders, long ramps, alternate levels... They seem so rare now.
-Interactive elements on maps: Another thing I miss are working doors that triggered off a switch. Or elevators. Or airlocks. Weldables are another thing I miss. (although they are supposedly coming soon)
Now none of this is to say I dislike NS2 at all. NS2 is still a great game. Dynamic infestation does help to make the map feel like it really is being 'invaded'. If NS1 was still active, would I shun NS2 for NS1...? Absolutely not. NS2 is a great game - but I do miss some aspects from NS1.
I wish more people were like that. It would raise the level of discourse in the forums from "toxic" to "worthwhile".
I think this game space has a lot of room for exploration and has the potential to be so much more than it is or ever has been before.
... and I think there will be plenty of room to satisfy a diversity of tastes while staying true to the fundamentals. You like new and shiny? Play Descent. You want pants-soiling and gritty? Play Refinery. Neither of those are quite right? Play a community map that suits you. Looking for a different flavor? Play a balance mod. Need a complete break? Play a gameplay mode mod.
Okay, yeah, the community is too small right now to have a huge amount of variety. But that will change in time as well. The community will grow, as we continue to reach out to players that might enjoy this kind of thing, and then show them a good time when they get here.
The greatness of NS1 was that there were so many different things you could do. So many different ways a match could turn out. The strategies, while not endless, were vast and I never got bored of it.
That's still somewhat the case in NS2, but much less so. There are less viable upgrade paths. There are less decisions on the part of teams on how to expand, due to being constrained by cysts and powernodes. There is less sneaking due to small maps and the aforementioned power/cyst mechanic. Most games play out the same way, depending on what your spawn location is - the only difference is who wins which engagements. That wasn't how it was in NS1.
NS2 brings a few new things to the table and I'm confident that it will work out eventually, but to say NS2 is a better game in its current state is just denial.
Of course, I never play NS1 anymore. I'm not good enough at it, and I do like the faster-paced combat of NS2. However I do miss some of the slow, tense moments in the original - I feel that NS2 suffers a little bit from too much action. There is no contrast to the heated desperate fights over an important expansion; no tense moments where you are just waiting for something to happen; no surprises when you run around an empty corridor for a minute only for an enemy to poke around the corner and make you jump the hell out of your seat.
Also, maps in NS2 are too bright. There are barely any dark corners. One of the things that made NS1 awesome was the ambiance of the maps. Dark corners.
but change ..is one of many nature laws
and change is good
P/s: then go and play NS1 , CS1.6
Despite Veil not feeling exactly like NS1, it at least is a great map which makes for great matches.
I played a lot of descent tonight, and I must say that it is a lot closer to the feel of the old NS1 maps. While it doesn't have necessarily the same gritty texture and atmosphere, it is a rather complicated and intricate map that the other NS2 maps just don't do. It's just bigger, and traveling in it is much more confusing and time consuming. The other NS2 maps seem to all have a focal point on them which opens up every single direction as a means of going somewhere. Need to get to the other side of the map? Well - you can almost always make a relative direct route there, especially with maps like Tram where you have a giant middle room which connects the entire map.
All of the new NS2 maps seem to have a relative shape that they keep to, and Descent has sort of strayed from that. Along with Veil of course.
Idk, I really would like to see some remade NS1 maps for NS2. I think that would satisfy a lot of people's nostalgia, and I also think it would give NS2 some of its best maps to be played on. There's something about the feeling of some NS1 maps that made it feel like you were really delving down into something. There was always a strangely eerie feeling to NS1. NS2 doesn't really have that feeling. It's a great game, I love the game and play it a lot - but yea. It isn't the same exact atmosphere and feeling.
Some of me partially blames the GoldSrc engine. There was something incredibly interesting about the GoldSrc engine that gave a certain atmosphere of emptiness and grim feeling that not even the Source engine could recreate.
We need some more NS1 maps remade, along with these new batches of maps as well. We definitely need a wider variety of maps, much like NS1 had when it had reached 3.0.
Edit: I also just wanted to add that many NS1 maps had a sort of descending feel to them. It many maps, in order to reach a hive location, marines often had to climb down or up ladders or take elevators that took them to a seemingly different elevation. NS2 maps just simply don't have that. We have props that we might be able to jump on or climb a ladder up, but aside from that, there isn't a huge sense of descending down into the depths of an alien invested area. You don't look behind yourself once you realize you're in a little too deep, and just see a dead end with just a ladder as your only escape - you see a giant gaping hallway for you to just start running down. A semblance or feeling of elevation within whatever area we're in doesn't seem to exist much in NS2.
*edit*
I think the art in NS2 is stunning, and the problem here is not so much nostalgia but watching a scary movie for the second time.
- No weldables
- No elevators
- No "buttons"
The maps in NS2 are not interactive at all.
There are some newish emitter entities in the map editor that allow triggering that have been in since Build 237 I think? Hopefully these will be improved and we can start using them more in maps. Right now I have played around with making buttons and using them to trigger cinematics but collidable cinematics aren't working properly so in terms of doors, weldable vents they just aren't there yet.
here is a video from Brian (Chops) showing it in action.
You are mixing up "nostalgia" and "nostalgia bias". Read the linked wiki-article. It is a proven psychological phenomenon and is the most obvious point that this post is an example of it.
Just compare 2 screen shots of NS2 and NS1 and see what is looking cartoonish. It's simply your mind playing tricks on you, so this comparisons aren't really good for anything. Despite demotivating developers. If you really think NS1 is better than NS2, than you should play NS1 not talking about it.
That said, there sure is some missing freedom in NS2 in comparison to NS1 but if you want to change this, bring constructive ideas to bring this back fitting to NS2.
I remember NS1 maps as a spectacle of architecture and innovation. Environments whose beauty was exceeded only by their gritty realism.
I was running around the maps the other day.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAH
We just want to make a game we love even better, not out of nostalgia but out of rationale, because we truly feel things like weldables, HAs, static sieges, lifeform strenght scaling, etc would make an even better game
Still love both games, just throwing that one out there.
I joined the community a long time ago too.
NS1 was fun.
NS2 is fun.
I think part of that is probably your age as well.
I know that things aren't as "fun" as they used to be when I was a teenager.
Responsibility does that.
It was graphically limited, which is why it looked the way it does.
Compared to the original Half-Life, Half-Life 2 looks cartoony.
As for brightness:
Play with the settings maxed out, and turn down the gamma on your monitor.
That depended on the map, and the game size.
I wish the maps in NS2 were bigger as well, but they're still pretty good maps.
I don't hate any of them.
I don't really have any maps that make me say "Awesome it's map X!"
You can still ninja around in NS2.
You just have to be more careful, and there's a higher chance that you're going to get caught.
Docking is basically an airport, think about how airports/train stations look in real life.
All the official maps in NS1 were set in gritty enviroments.
Bast is still my favourite NS1 map.
I still remember the first time the Klaxxons went off.
NS2 is a faster paced game than NS1, but it's not like Combat mode.
You're complaining that your new favourite game isn't as fun as your old favourite game, because you were expecting too much of it, and it didn't live up to your expectations.
I came into NS2 with the mindset of "Sweet, NS1 was awesome.", I didn't care what they'd changed as long as it was still an RTS/FPS hybrid with Marines vs Aliens.
As I stated already, the only thing that doesn't really wow me are the maps.
They're all decent, and I can't think of a map I hate.
Just as with the new map Decent, it hurts my eyes especially the club section. While I understand there’s a lot of work that goes into these maps, why do they have to look so pretty?
Being ninjas?
I haven't played descent yet.
My gaming computer is fried, but I ordered the parts today.
Should be up and running in 2-5 days(Friday, or Monday).
I don't think this has anything to do with aesthetics. You see lone wolfs running into hives more often because in NS2 there's simply more reason to do so. You can take out vital upgrades quite fast, or simply start shooting the eggs to egglock them. And with the smaller maps/sprint function, travel time to a hive is also shorter. You didn't have that in NS1, there the only real reason to move into a hive was simply to kill it.
yeah, and if marines don't apply risque pressure moves then they usually lose the game by default.
Same for the aliens. Loosing a fade means not doing anything else probably till the end of the game. i don't see many fades arounds used by not good players. same for the lerks
That makes the game quite annoying after some time
I think this might be one of these l2p issues, because with time people get more experianced and more relaxed with their res.
After having played exo/onos several times, people start to realize it's not neccessarily woth it to save 20 mins and possibly loose the game in the meantime.
It's Descent, not decent
Regardless. While we enjoy the gritty feel from the first set of maps released, we saw alot of potential for some cleaner assets, to give ns2 its own flavor. We really did not want to regurgitate the same mapset again, and with Descent came opportunities for themes that would never fly in a gritty environment. The chosen theme for Descent was a civilian space station that also had space-age industrial themes with it, as if its a colony in space that you might live on, or vacation on. With this comes the clean parts of Descent. There was possibility to leave some of the gritty stuff in the industrial sections, but it never seemed to mesh well with the rest of the themes. As artists we are always striving for creation, and making new and different things. There just came a time where ideas were running dry to keep new maps with that old texture set fresh. NS2 needed something different.
dual minigun exo suit versus 15 mines.... the mines are potentially faaaaaaaaaaaar superior as they will almost guarantee map control and a strong early/mid game. the late game is fubar if you have a weak early/mid game.