Remind Me Again Why Marines Are Getting Nerfed?
OdDmor
Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10090Members
Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10090Members
<div class="IPBDescription">According to the NS 1.04 patch...</div> Here's a list of the Marine nerfs:
1. Welder damage reduced from 10 to 7
2. Increased Cost of Infantry portal from 15-22
3. Increased Cost of phase gate from 22 to 25
4. Decreased health of phase gate from 3500 to 2000 (or a 43% hp drop)
5. Scan cost increased from 1 to 3 (tripled)
6. Siege Cannon range reduced from 1250 to 1100 (or a 8% range decrease)
7. Max Machine Gun ammo reduced from 300 to 250 (or a 17% drop in ammo supply, 1/3 of a clip)
In exchange for these nerfs, we marines get these benefits:
1. Acid Rocket (Fade) splash radius reduced from 200 to 165.
2. Armory gives out ammo while upgrading.
3. Advanced Armory now has a life meter that makes sense.
Umm....why are the marines getting nerfed? Seems like the aliens are winning 80% of the time, with their overpowered walls of lame and invincible Redemption upgraded Onos'. The Fades seem overpowered as well, with (I think) roughly 30 too much armor. It takes a decked out marine with a HMG and heavy armor in order to take a Fade on alone, unless you find the rare marine whos a god with a shottie. That comes out to around...oh...someone help me here, as I have forgotten the cost of a HA suit. But I know its costly.
Why make the Infantry Portal more expensive? Building a Marine base at the start of a game is difficult enough as is. Seems like about 1/4 of Marine games end in defeat due to a skulk rush. I don't see how slowing down the Marine base building balances the game at all.
I dunno why the phase gate is getting bashed so much. Balancing a game shouldn't mean hacking 43% of somethings hp away. I understand that the phase gate IS a tad overpowered; I see the phase gate used all the time, and it did deserve some nerfing. But this is far too drastic.
Our HMG has been nerfed ammo wise. 50 less rounds to pump into that ubiquitous Fade. Lowering the ammo limit just because it doesn't display right isn't fair. We kinda need that lead.
So what to we get in return? The Fade's Acid Rocket gets a 17.5% radius decrease. Yay for us, the thing was too big. We also are able to get ammo from the Armory while its upgrading. THANK YOU! It was always a big a thorn in our sides not having it working for several minutes early on. Oh, and now the Advanced Armory displays its life correctly. Thats it. I don't think this is enough to warrant the hits the Marines have taken.
Ok, now besides hearing death threats from all you Kharaa players, does anyone else see the error in the balancing?
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1. Welder damage reduced from 10 to 7
2. Increased Cost of Infantry portal from 15-22
3. Increased Cost of phase gate from 22 to 25
4. Decreased health of phase gate from 3500 to 2000 (or a 43% hp drop)
5. Scan cost increased from 1 to 3 (tripled)
6. Siege Cannon range reduced from 1250 to 1100 (or a 8% range decrease)
7. Max Machine Gun ammo reduced from 300 to 250 (or a 17% drop in ammo supply, 1/3 of a clip)
In exchange for these nerfs, we marines get these benefits:
1. Acid Rocket (Fade) splash radius reduced from 200 to 165.
2. Armory gives out ammo while upgrading.
3. Advanced Armory now has a life meter that makes sense.
Umm....why are the marines getting nerfed? Seems like the aliens are winning 80% of the time, with their overpowered walls of lame and invincible Redemption upgraded Onos'. The Fades seem overpowered as well, with (I think) roughly 30 too much armor. It takes a decked out marine with a HMG and heavy armor in order to take a Fade on alone, unless you find the rare marine whos a god with a shottie. That comes out to around...oh...someone help me here, as I have forgotten the cost of a HA suit. But I know its costly.
Why make the Infantry Portal more expensive? Building a Marine base at the start of a game is difficult enough as is. Seems like about 1/4 of Marine games end in defeat due to a skulk rush. I don't see how slowing down the Marine base building balances the game at all.
I dunno why the phase gate is getting bashed so much. Balancing a game shouldn't mean hacking 43% of somethings hp away. I understand that the phase gate IS a tad overpowered; I see the phase gate used all the time, and it did deserve some nerfing. But this is far too drastic.
Our HMG has been nerfed ammo wise. 50 less rounds to pump into that ubiquitous Fade. Lowering the ammo limit just because it doesn't display right isn't fair. We kinda need that lead.
So what to we get in return? The Fade's Acid Rocket gets a 17.5% radius decrease. Yay for us, the thing was too big. We also are able to get ammo from the Armory while its upgrading. THANK YOU! It was always a big a thorn in our sides not having it working for several minutes early on. Oh, and now the Advanced Armory displays its life correctly. Thats it. I don't think this is enough to warrant the hits the Marines have taken.
Ok, now besides hearing death threats from all you Kharaa players, does anyone else see the error in the balancing?
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Comments
Marines' midgame < Kharaa midgame
Marines' lategame < Kharaa lategame
The first two need to be =, and there lies the problem.
These "nerfs" are to tone down the marine early game and give a slight toning down to kharaa midgame.
Chaosdragon is 100% right about aliens winning. An organized marine team will SLAUGHTER an equally organized kharaa team (assuming equal skill of course). If you don't believe it, you haven't seen organized marines yet <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
thats all I really have to say to any kind of balance/nerf thread
just "lol"
IMO, Welders are made to destroy buildings, not units. I dont think you'll see the difference, welder will always own.
<i>2. Increased Cost of Infantry portal from 15-22</i>
I think its to slow the Phase Gate rush. Paying 44 instead of 30 leaves less cash for Obs. and PG.
<i>3. Increased Cost of phase gate from 22 to 25</i>
Same as above I think.
<i>4. Decreased health of phase gate from 3500 to 2000 (or a 43% hp drop)</i>
Same again.
<i>5. Scan cost increased from 1 to 3 (tripled)</i>
Seige cannons now only shoot if a marine sees the building or the commander scans the area. Prevents a bit the Scan spam that could happen.
<i>6. Siege Cannon range reduced from 1250 to 1100 (or a 8% range decrease)</i>
I guess its like the reason above.
<i>7. Max Machine Gun ammo reduced from 300 to 250 (or a 17% drop in ammo supply, 1/3 of a clip)</i>
It was a display bug that showed 250, now they putted it at 250 limit. I dont see much of a big deal there.
Thats my opinion
Marines' midgame < Kharaa midgame
Marines' lategame < Kharaa lategame
The first two need to be =, and there lies the problem.
These "nerfs" are to tone down the marine early game and give a slight toning down to kharaa midgame.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sekdar hit it right on head there. If the Kharaa EVER get the 3rd hive for more than 2 minutes, its over for the Marines.
Um....tell me whats wrong with that??!?! If they get three hives they DESERVE to win. If oyu lose three hives you DESERVE to lose its that simple. The onos is disgined to be the game ender. Even though i did have an ono ha/hmg stalemate the other day <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> but it was a 3v3 game.
Guess they wont be happy until a onos dies with a single LMG bullet.
Because, lets face it, spending all that time securing the hive and using all that resources to enable a Fade to run havok, just isn't fair to the marines who'd rather sit in their base and drink Tea ...
I think it should just be LMG marines vs Skulks - then the hives could just be like an end game, not adding or taking anything away - just a means to an end ...
-=Insert Roll Eyes Emote Here=-
Example: The Kharaa get a fairly slow gain on the Marines over time, and after about an hour of intense fighting, they manage to get the 3rd hive for 3 minutes. The Marines manage to take out the hive, but its already too late, as 4 Onos rush through the room and wipe out the entire 10 man force. The group of Onos move on like the Pale Riders and devestate everything in sight. Unstoppable as they are, the Kharaa don't even bother to rebuild the lost hive.
Bottom line: If the Kharaa get the 3rd hive, there is absolutely no way the Marines can ever make a comeback. Such a tactical hole in a advanced army's technology doesn't make any sense. A nice fat rocket launcher is what we need.
How long did you play on a 1.04 - <i>patch</i> server, and I don't mean beta servers that are supposed to give Flayra the ability to <i>test</i> things?
Then, and I guess I'll scream now, why are you all acting as if you knew what's going to happen, not to mention that you also assume you know exactely how it's going to work out?
What you read about are planned changes. The word is <b>planned</b>. If it doesn't work out, it won't be in the patch. I mean, do you think Flay is going to invest two years of his life in a great game just to voluntarily unbalance it?
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Gee, i dont know maybe because if marines get three hives they win? That might be it im not sure though can we get a dev to confirm this?
No problem.
<img src='http://forums.firearmsmod.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Your welcome <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Gee, i dont know maybe because if marines get three hives they win? That might be it im not sure though can we get a dev to confirm this?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL!!!!!!! I wonder what marines get when they secure 3 hives....
If you want the proof, play with clanners.
I'm *SO* incredibly happy to see that the NS team isn't caving into the whining demands of the majority of n00bs.
I keep hearing people talking about the equipment a single marine would need to have to take on a fade one for one.
My response to which;
Since when is a marine supposed to take on a fade alone?
Its sad that after all the time the game's been out, certain people are still playing marines rambo.
Then again these are the same people shouting "teh alien win all teh time! they are t00 l337! nerf nerf nerf!"
Although I doubt I'd say that Kharaa getting 3 hives is a definite win 100% of the time, yes, it <b><i>is</i></b> intended for the aliens to have a significant advantage with 3 hives. Why? Because the marines can prevent the aliens from reaching the top of their tech tree by holding just one of the hive rooms. The aliens can't stop the marines from researching tech, so long as the marines have sufficient resources. Consider the benefits conferred by getting 3 hive a kind of punishment to the marines, for not stopping the advancement of the aliens.
You asked why the marines don't have an "Onos counter" -- is there a single marine unit that is anywhere close to an Onos? No, of course not. Having a unit like that on the marine side would just destroy teamplay, if a single marine could massacre the Kharaa without a teammate nearby. But notice that a HA marine is made nigh-invincible if there's a single teammate welding him, and a commander watching to make sure his health doesn't drop too far. And I would personally say that it's almost impossible to stop a well-coordinated and determined HA/HMG squadron, combined with judicious use of ammo and health drops, sieges, and phase gates by the commander. Again, the marines win not through individual accomplishments, but through working together as a team.
:edit: Wow, a whole <b>six</b> people posted while I was writing that. Not bad.
Also, there is a reason this is called a Discussion Board. I'm sure he didn't put the thing here to have members just agree to his every whim. He most likely put it here to see our feedback on his ideas. I'm saying some of the things he's planning on doing in this patch should be looked at. This forum is for our opinions and suggestions to be HEARD.
Honestly, was ANYONE here ever in the Warcraft III beta? Or at least on the Warforge server? Those forums used patch announced numbers all the time...no one ever questioned a persons ability to judge the numbers there. NS is not far from this.
How long did you play on a 1.04 - <i>patch</i> server, and I don't mean beta servers that are supposed to give Flayra the ability to <i>test</i> things?
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I want to play on them, but everytime I try to log on they're full! <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think that this is a "Half patch." A patch that is created to fix A PART of a problem. Marines are being fiddled with first. When Flyra figures out what is "needed" then he will go to the Aliens and fiddle around...which is where all this whing will be reincarnated.
Sorry, Devs. I want you to know that at least there are a few players who love you and are willing to wait until you die from exaustion (all that coding is hard, right?) before we start to complain about this great game. Thanks! ^^ We love you!
I'm bored with playing with idiots on line, I'm trying to join a clan so I can be challenged.
who ever said the marines had a 3rd 'Tier'?
They are two completely different teams ...