Today LIVE @ 12pm PDT/9pm CEST - 8to6 vs. Unchain the Wolves!
RedDog
Las Vegas Join Date: 2013-02-22 Member: 183267Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, WC 2013 - Shadow
Las Vegas Join Date: 2013-02-22 Member: 183267Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, WC 2013 - Shadow
Thaaaaat's right, folks!
Just like the match yesterday with dN vs. All-In - this will be a pretty well matched-up game! Skills *seem* to be aligned, so I would be surprised if this was a 4-0 stomp. Which will make it quite an exciting game!
Join Twitch.tv/sting_reddog at the match time. We'll see if it can turn into a rafflecast as the match goes on.
Ciao, guys! (and gals!)
Just like the match yesterday with dN vs. All-In - this will be a pretty well matched-up game! Skills *seem* to be aligned, so I would be surprised if this was a 4-0 stomp. Which will make it quite an exciting game!
Join Twitch.tv/sting_reddog at the match time. We'll see if it can turn into a rafflecast as the match goes on.
Ciao, guys! (and gals!)
Comments
it would be easier if you said how many hours from now it will be live like you did it before, because now I have to google the time and convert it to my time
1 hour, 15 min from this reply
See you there!
To begin with 8to6 didn't seem to be in their best shape. We (UtW) played well and were in good form but we were anticipating four very close games. What actually happened is we managed to get really good starts in all rounds so that we could dictate the pace of the matches pretty much through and through.
The fourth round.....
First and foremost me (field commander) and our CC commander completelly missed that they had dropped gravity hive up to the point where me and Trojsan walked right in there. By then it had already been fully grown and fancied up with crags and what-not. This really put us off. It made us doubt our decisions just slightly, which is too much. In our minds we had kept 8to6 at 1-2 harvesters for a while but when we realized that hive was up we couldn't really trust our estimation of how much res they had. Both me and the CC commander just assumed that at least someone would walk past gravity now and then to check out the RT. I even called out when I cruised by bay wing that there were cysts going into gravity. Huge oversight on our part :P.
We decided to arc it instead of going jets since gravity is pretty arc friendly and very close to the marine base. After the arcing of gravity we should have simply moved the arcs straight to waste recycling and finished the game. This was my idea but we had a disagreement. Our CC commander was sure that they were going to drop Pipeline hive right away since they cleared that tech point out and moved in with a whole bunch of players. Usually that means that they want to claim it as their own. Since they did this we thought they had 40Tres for the drop for sure. Our commander wanted to play it cool and just immediately arc the hive when dropped and then move straight to waste to finish off the game. What happened was that they focused on dropping harvesters instead and we just got stuck trying to solidify our map control for a while. We all know that we had arcs enough to just bully around our opponent but in that match there was too much confusion going on for it go swift and smooth.
Hope you guys enjoyed at least the first three games, I thought they were pretty good showings!
EDIT; Reyn if you're reading this, thanks for some exciting 1on1 action. I called it reyn on brain, haha
Somehow for the first 15 minutes or so at least it was you vs me. Felt pretty even!
That said... that fourth match was drawn out to ridiculous proportion. You shouldn't need 7-8 Arcs. The match could have been over before that point... and to send them off exploring the map for 5 mins was painful to sit through.
Although the other 3 matches were better, they still felt far longer than they needed to be. Prehaps it's because you were following DN v All-in's match the day before, but I just didn't find it all that engaging.
I would like your team to view the matches in their entirety from a spectators view. You've got a skillful team, but it looks like you have trouble ending matches, which could be holding you back.
8to6... What was your commander doing in that last match, dropping 2 hives with marines sat next to them. I half expected you guys to eject him!
We always review the matches afterwards. Especially when they're casted like this.
When it comes to the sheer amount of arcs it comes down to personal preference on Tharidor's (Pung la) part. I don't agree with using anything more than 5-6 arcs personally. We knew we had those games in the bag, the first three. There's no reason to rush it when you know the opponent doesn't get resources and you're facing a low amount of fades or a low amount of marine tech. Since this was ENSL games we wanted to do everything as proper as we could. As long as you get more income than your opponent, you can slow down the game flow as long as you don't loose the grasp.
I don't know if you play competetively yourself but ending games versus players that are very good individually cannot be rushed. If you try that one too many times you can find yourself on the losing end of the game. In the past our clan has been very eager to end games when we have the advantage and due to that tendency we ended up losing games we had the advantage in way too often. It's always a fine line between how much you can agress and how much you can play it cool. All clans constantly struggle to find middle ground.
I'd like to point out one thing I disagreed with very much that REDDOG said that's very related to this. In the veil game when the marines built up a CC, an armory and an IP in pipe he called out that we should just rush in, kill everyone and kill the IP. This is odd since that was the exact same situation as when they were in control, minus an arms lab. If it was that easy to do it in pipe it would have been as easy to do it when they were in control which would mean that every early game is just about "killing everyone and then killing the IP". It's true in theory but in practice you'll lose skulks during the way and face respawners with medspam.
The last time we were in that situation it was versus WongaNS. They quickly teched shotguns, armed everyone with them and rushed in and killed our hive even though we had pretty much the entire map full of harvesters going up. This is the reason we put up a couple of hives first and then laid down the killing blow on pipe when we got a good opportunity. This is warfare basics. Don't attack where the opponent is the strongest, attack him when he makes a mistake and opens up.
I think I covered the last round enough in my previous post. We should have arced waste sooner but we misjudged their res because of the gravity hive we didn't get to know about until it was already finished. We had no idea if they could drop 1, 2 or no hives but our assumption was that they were gonna drop pipe. It was wrong.
Next time we'll arc the living hell out of that hive
EDIT: I know what you're saying with that the games didn't feel that engaging. It was due to 8to6 not being in good shape. I talked to derWalter about it and there were a bunch of reasons behind it. It sucks but what can you do? At least this should pave the way for some really interesting semi finals in division 2! Can't wait for them
I agree that making that final push can be tough against solid players, but I still think it's one of the weaker parts of your game. Looking at that last match again, it took over 5 mins from building that Arc Factory, to moving them into gravity. Usually, I see arc's rolling out within a couple of minutes of one going up. Would you have waited that long if the teams were more even?
At roughly 24 mins in, you pushed 3 marines into waste recycling...The aliens hadn't seen you coming...I was curious as to why you didn't get a pg in bay wing like RedDog said. I'm not sure what your target was, but I can't imagine you expected to deal that much damage in there, and it's a long way to travel back. What was the goal?
After 8to6 dropped and lost that 2nd hive in Gravity, they were low on res. Obviously, you guys didn't know just how low, but in my opinion you should have assumed it'd be a minute or two before they could afford another and even if they intended to drop pipe, that's going to take time before they can drop, building time, and draw aliens away from Waste to defend it.. Their main hive was simply the better target. less travel time to get there, you know there's something to kill once you do get there, it's easier to arc and their upgrades were there (i think)!
That said, it's easy to find faults as a spectator, we have the whole map in view, we see when openings occur, res flow etc etc. and even with that information, the earlier matches had less 'wtf' moments than that last one. 8to6 really did an excellent job at pushing back your attacks, they fell down putting pressure on your team though.
Ultimately, you guys have to decide when is the best moment to attack, and though it may not be the most entertaining match from a spectator point of view, the bottom line is you guys won 4-0, and that's what counts. Don't take the criticism too harshly, you have proven yourselves capable and you get results. Good luck in the semi's and I look forward to watching it!
lol no worries BM. I believe I called that because at that point, you guys were dominating in engagements. It was very clear at that point that individual player skill was on your side (from my perspective). That being said, it was a suggestion to use that to your advantage in the newly established Pipe base. Easier said than done, like you mentioned. But hey, I try to call out options - they may not all be good! lol
Anyway - they were still entertaining and with hindsight that last round seems even funnier now. You guys are good sports with putting up with my tiredness and I'm glad I could get chuckles out of the crowd with my bloopers (including your comm when he re-watched it! lol).
I don't blame you guys for taking a while to take them out, because they were a very skilled team. They had some major lapses in strategy, like not defending Nano and dropping those hives when there were marines in the room, but as far as actual deathmatching goes they were on point. So were you guys.
Anyways, glad that was cleared up just a bit. Hope UTW makes it to the semis - I'd definitely be looking forward to watching you guys play again.