A Reminder To Server Admins
Ensign_Deadmeat
Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9590Members
Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9590Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Your clients are your customers.</div> An admins ability to use commands are a responsibility as well as a power. Ones who use them for only their own benefit are no better than clients who come into a game only to ruin it for others.
The other day I was playing on the SNIPERLUST server, on the aliens side. There was a couple of admins playing as well, with one of them also on the aliens side. At the start of the map, a few minutes in, some alien players started calling for the Gorge to build a Defense Chamber. The admin on the aliens side came over mike and stated that he'd like a Movement Chamber built first because he prefers adrenaline to carapace.
Most of the other players, including me, stated that we'd prefer a Defense Chamber first for it's benefits. When the Gorge said that he was going to build a DC, the admin then came over his mike and declared that "any Gorge who builds a Defense Chamber before a Movement Chambers will be banned for 90 days."
Some of us then protested over general chat to that, and after getting protests from BOTH teams, the admin then backed down and said he was only joking.
This same admin on a previous map got stuck in an OC tower he was building and used admin_noclip to free himself. When the other team complained after seeing the command appear, he said he was only freeing himself and that if he wanted to cheat, he'd use godmode. Whether getting stuck in a structure is a game glitch or not, it's currently part of the game, if only he can use admin_noclip to free himself, then it's as much a cheat as the player that uses a hack.
After the second abuse of admin I stated my distaste for the admin abuse and left for another server. I ran into someone later on the 2nd server who told me they also left as a result of the abuse.
Clients are your customers. Your job is to provide THEM with the best possible experience on your server. If that means using admin to remove trouble makers, then by all means do so. Using admin to make YOUR game better at the expense of others will lead to people leaving your server and going elsewhere. There's lots of servers out there and it only took about 20 secs for me to find a different one. Abuse your powers long enough and you'll need to add an admin_begforplayerstojoin, because you'll have a dead server.
The other day I was playing on the SNIPERLUST server, on the aliens side. There was a couple of admins playing as well, with one of them also on the aliens side. At the start of the map, a few minutes in, some alien players started calling for the Gorge to build a Defense Chamber. The admin on the aliens side came over mike and stated that he'd like a Movement Chamber built first because he prefers adrenaline to carapace.
Most of the other players, including me, stated that we'd prefer a Defense Chamber first for it's benefits. When the Gorge said that he was going to build a DC, the admin then came over his mike and declared that "any Gorge who builds a Defense Chamber before a Movement Chambers will be banned for 90 days."
Some of us then protested over general chat to that, and after getting protests from BOTH teams, the admin then backed down and said he was only joking.
This same admin on a previous map got stuck in an OC tower he was building and used admin_noclip to free himself. When the other team complained after seeing the command appear, he said he was only freeing himself and that if he wanted to cheat, he'd use godmode. Whether getting stuck in a structure is a game glitch or not, it's currently part of the game, if only he can use admin_noclip to free himself, then it's as much a cheat as the player that uses a hack.
After the second abuse of admin I stated my distaste for the admin abuse and left for another server. I ran into someone later on the 2nd server who told me they also left as a result of the abuse.
Clients are your customers. Your job is to provide THEM with the best possible experience on your server. If that means using admin to remove trouble makers, then by all means do so. Using admin to make YOUR game better at the expense of others will lead to people leaving your server and going elsewhere. There's lots of servers out there and it only took about 20 secs for me to find a different one. Abuse your powers long enough and you'll need to add an admin_begforplayerstojoin, because you'll have a dead server.
Comments
The server sounds like utter crap with admins like him and Boomer running around.
Apparently Boomer has quite a lot of fun with his admin abilities.
Too bad the rest of the players don't.
Check the sig
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Check the sig
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, actually I'm a regular on the Network 42 server <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's a great server, awesome players play there, a bit strict in the rules but the admins are fair (They'll ALWAYS warn you before doing anything and are free to discuss anything you need).
www.xlii.com <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
So admins abusing their power is for our enjoyment
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you want to complain about the way someone runs their server, start making donations; otherwise, just go back to being a moocher and stuff it please.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a free mod, I already paid $30 for Half-Life, I'm not going to pay for the servers. If the admins can't afford to run a server they shouldn't. Running a server can be just as much fun as playing the game itself, this should be incintive/reward enough.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Admin abuse" or not, how someone runs their server is their business; and coming onto a forum spamming "OMDFGSDFGSDFGFG OMFG I WAS BANN-ED BY THAT PHAGGGGGGOTTTT ON (insert server here)" doesn't mean crap in the long run, because people will stop joining their server, one way or another.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one did this can't see why this is relevant. But warning people of admin abuse versus them finding out for themselves and wasting time they could be spending in a legitimate server seems like its "worth crap in the long run"
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If they abuse admin, people won't join. Its that simple.
So please, stop crying about how some newbie runs his server, cause it REALLY doesn't matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firstly, people have to figure out its a bad server before they will stop joining it. There is no way of telling if a server has admin abuse unless you see it first hand (or someone like Ensign Deadmeat informs us). And secondly "how some newbie runs his server... really doesnt matter" I find it hard to see how this sentence could have any credibility. If every "newbie" ran his server this way it WOULD matter because NS would be pointless and a waste of time.
Running a server is a privelige and you should try to make it the most enjoyable expierence you can for your players. There are several different ideas and theories on how that happens hence several different server admins. Coming onto a forum to warn others of such a server prevents us from wasting our time. I'm very glad Ensign did the this post so I won't have to go through the trouble he did. I find it more insulting that you came in here and tried to flame him for warning us and saying that admins can do what they want etc. Please consider things more before you go off on a rant.
-Techwid
I would like to say i'm glad he posted it, but i could careless because i only play on my server <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> hehehe.
But the others are right too, admins can do whatever they want. Just don't except thier servers to be full for much longer because as long as we have ppl posting admin abuse, ppl will eventually stop going there. sysops have a right to do whatever they want, they just won't have much fun running an empty server. Thats why i run a very lenient server and i don't have many rules. so players stay happier.
joe
I have taken some precautions though, installed spidermonkey addon (great!)
and "sv_voiceenable 0" . Voice comm cant be abused no more, nobody is complaining that it is disabled.
Ok so Imagine the rest of the community doesn't like the way your servers are handled and leave. You now have an empty server and waste of hardware. Players ARE your clients, your priveleged to have them there, they could easily have chosen a different server.
Why do you think players connecting are referred to as clients in coding ? Client patches from NS, Client Side anti-cheat from Cheating-Death, etc. Be grateful for your players.
That is the server owners perogitive. He can waste it if he wants to.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Players ARE your clients, your priveleged to have them <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a matter of personal opinion , and shouldnt be SOLD as gospel truth. This differs from server to server depending on what reasons the owner/operator had for starting the server , ie. tired of putting up with ***hole players on pubs with no admin around , or just wanting to better the mod community. To each his own.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why do you think players connecting are referred to as clients in coding ?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Being that these "Clients" are not paying for the "services" rendered , The "server" is not accountable to the "Clients" in any way shape or form.
In my opinion , it is fine for someone to post a grievance. It is NOT fine however to say that all servers are there to benefit Clients. Running a server can be an extremely costly and time consuming endeavor , and as such it is the RIGHT of the owner/operator to run it as he sees fit. Hopefully most admins out there prefer to maintain a healthy full crap free public server for the enjoyment of all. However , those that choose to run one for personal fullfillment should not be chastised for not providing you , the CLIENT , with what YOU want in your gaming experience.
joe<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My servers are the same way expect the unstuck part. I decided it would be unfair to other players if they were stuck and i was in battle and not able to unstick them.
I would simply take down the server if nobody joined it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why do you think players connecting are referred to as clients in coding ? Client patches from NS, Client Side anti-cheat from Cheating-Death, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a networking term, not a business one.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Be grateful for your players. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, they should be grateful to people that put up servers.
running a free server, to a reasonably mature and ethical person, means you are entering into a social contract with people that play there.
they get a free server to join
you get the fun of running a server
when a player cheats or tries to mess up your server, they have broken their part of the contract, and you are morally entitled to kick/ban/punish/whatever; in fact, you are obligated to, to protect the other players.
when a server admin behaves poorly, by abusing his powers or punishing people unnecessarily or whatever, the players are at a disadvantage because all they can do is leave. however, if the server has a really low ping, people will keep going to it and getting abused, regardless of what "should" happen.
anyway, it's an unequal relationship, and if a server admin abuses a player, there's really nothing the player can do about it. complaining can be easily ignored by the server admin, if not perversely enjoyed. you accept this when you decide to be a player, instead of an admin - you get less power, but you don't have to pay any money. when a server admin is abusive, just move on to another server, because there really is very little else you can do.
Damn I'm good. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, no. Not even a social contract. They can play on that server or they can not. That is their option and no one is forcing them to join, period.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you get the fun of running a server<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, lots of fun having to deal with jerks whenever you're playing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->when a server admin behaves poorly, by abusing his powers or punishing people unnecessarily or whatever, the players are at a disadvantage because all they can do is leave. however, if the server has a really low ping, people will keep going to it and getting abused, regardless of what "should" happen.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, don't buy this part either. They can leave and go somewhere else. While NS doesn't enjoy the popularity of CS it does have a large server base. ASE, at 2:38am pacific, lists 247 servers. Whoops, had my North America filter on. Of those 159 have less than 100ms ping. 244 have less than 200ms. They don't like a server or the admin they can bloody go elsewhere. It's not like tons of other mods which have 10 severs.... total.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->when a server admin is abusive, just move on to another server, because there really is very little else you can do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly. That is the best option. If a server admin pisses ya off, go elsewhere. If a map comes up you don't like, don't whine endlessly about it and **** people off, go elsewhere. I don't agree with absuive admins but I know that if an admin is completely abusive he ends up with a server which is empty. In fact, try one of those empty servers. I'd bet at least one of them (*cough*mine*cough*) doesn't have an abusive admin on it and would very much like to see players on it.
Of course the short version of all this is what I say every time some schmuck on CS does an admin_mapvote 5 times in a row because he doesn't want to play a new (as in anything past Beta 8 or so) map.
"There are 6000 other CS servers out there. I bet one of them is playing a map you like right now!"
de_dust comes up, guess who is the first to quit for a 40m break until the map rotates? Me. Heading my own advice.
sorry, yes. whether you like it or not, that's how "reality" for every other person in the world works, and you might IGNORE your part of the contract, but it exists.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah, lots of fun having to deal with jerks whenever you're playing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what? how is that a benefit? i realize you are being sarcastic but it has nothing to do with what i was saying; it's a total non sequitor. did you even read my post?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Sorry, don't buy this part either. They can leave and go somewhere else. While NS doesn't enjoy the popularity of CS it does have a large server base. ASE, at 2:38am pacific, lists 247 servers. Whoops, had my North America filter on. Of those 159 have less than 100ms ping. 244 have less than 200ms. They don't like a server or the admin they can bloody go elsewhere. It's not like tons of other mods which have 10 severs.... total.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what does this have to do with my point? i don't think you read my post. i said, if your server ping is low, having some dude leave is not going to affect your server because new people will constantly join who have no idea if you are a good admin or not.
Running a server is not fun. I get no enjoyment out of it and the only reason I keep the server up is because some friends of mine like it.
Because for as long as hub-and-spoke software has existed, the hub has been called the "server", and the spokes "clients". It's called client-server (or server-client if you're weird) architecture. Convention; no social or economical implications whatsoever.
However, if the servers became bad, I would leave them alone, thus negating my need for that ISP, and I would change to another, costing my ISP my monthly fee, which is what I think Ensign Deadmeat was getting at, at the start.
On the other side of this, many servers are either private ones, or clan ones that are hired. In that case, what they do IS there business, and they can be as pathetic as they like.
Just don't expect me to play there.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope. No such contract exists. I put up a server for whatever reason of my choosing. They can join, or not, as they see fit. There is no contract, period.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->what? how is that a benefit? i realize you are being sarcastic but it has nothing to do with what i was saying; it's a total non sequitor. did you even read my post?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I did. Did you even attempt to figure out mine or did you just gloss over it? You said that the server admin gets the fun of running a server. My comment was pointing out that running a server is not all fun. In fact, at times, it can be downright annoying and taxing on even the most resolute of server admins. It is, often times, a chore. One that we take on for a variety of reasons. Personally I set up my NS server because I love the game, have a server that can run a small game, have bandwidth to spare and want to see the game thrive. More servers help that out. Same reason I run my CS server the way I do. I like how another server was set up, found out that it was rare to see CS servers set up like that and wanted to get one more out there for other people to enjoy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->what does this have to do with my point? i don't think you read my post. i said, if your server ping is low, having some dude leave is not going to affect your server because new people will constantly join who have no idea if you are a good admin or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not true. My server has damned low ping for a lot of people. It is rarely loaded at all. You need two things.
1: low ping
2: PLAYERS
People rarely go to empty servers. In fact you need a critical mass of players before your server will get more. It is a catch-22. So if an abusive admin causes people to drop from his server and never to return it will eventually empty out. Once empty it is a PITA to get players onto it again. Doesn't take long for people to figure out an admin is abusive in their eyes. Doesn't take much to denote a server as one on which to never play again, either.
Not true. My server has damned low ping for a lot of people. It is rarely loaded at all. You need two things.
1: low ping
2: PLAYERS
People rarely go to empty servers. In fact you need a critical mass of players before your server will get more. It is a catch-22. So if an abusive admin causes people to drop from his server and never to return it will eventually empty out. Once empty it is a PITA to get players onto it again. Doesn't take long for people to figure out an admin is abusive in their eyes. Doesn't take much to denote a server as one on which to never play again, either.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
true true.
Having a good server is about reputation. You can't get regulars w/o reputation. Regulars help spread your reputation to freinds and online buddies.
one might ask who makes the reputation? The Admins (and the pings). But if pings are always good...then its the admin's job to make it a pleasent server. The admin has to follow the rules too. Admins who abuse thier power make the server look like it has a god-complex. My admins rarely ever to anything. Check my stats
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Server Event Value
Player Connections: 5509
Server Crashes: 14
Rcon Commands: 0
BAD Rcon Attempts: 8
Total Cheaters Detected: 0
Total Players Kicked: 93
Total Players Banned: 0
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
those were all rule breakers and not ppl who killed the admins too much. My server is full alot more now because i have the rules posted on the connect message and i have regular who like the rules. My admins are very cool headed and never kick/slay anyone who killed them too much or something. Even when we suspect ppl of cheating, we goto spectator mode and look, then get onto IRC and talk about it. we don't like to kick unfairly. i get more and more ppl everyday becoming "regulars" because of the quality. I bet alot of the servers in this forum are the same way.
But the facts of the original poster and mine are the same. No contracts, no promises, just cool headed admins because its all about reputation.
I think you have to take into account what rules are on a server. If they say no racist remarks or you are banned and somebody says it, then they should be banned.
Being banned for killing an admin is kind of stupid, and again I wouldn't play on a server like that. It is always hard to please everybody, I have learned this after 4 years of running servers. That is why I choose the idea of creating a server with a specific type of player in mind. In fact most of the servers I run are invite only, so we don't have to worry about it. NS was left open to the public to help promote it.