I agree. The combination of jetpack and flamer is the problem. The damage of the flamer is ok for the price it has.
FT's rarely go alone.
Skulks are blinded by the flames thus making attacks difficult.
Lerks dare not engage a flamethrower given their ability to suck energy, and lack of need to aim by the marine (low energy lerk = dead lerk).
Fades and onos can take out an FT with ease.
I think the issue here is the sheer amount of traits that an FT has compared to any other weapon in game. I agree with a previous poster, perhaps less damage to aliens, more damage to structures. That way they have a singular purpose rather then a WTF everything in its path.
Also, to date the unstoppable win for Marines has been...
1) Immediately research Advanced Armory.
2) Build observation
3) Build 2 RT's only, keep marines near base
4) Scan where alien hive is
5) Beacon everybody back to base, everyone purchase FT's.
6) Comm jumps out to use personal res to spam welders for everyone
7) Marines rush alien base, kill it in less then 30 seconds
8) Game over
If the marine base gets into trouble, the comm simply beacons the marines back again, kills aliens with the FT's, and re-rush base.
As sore as I might be for @wiry calling me out on this in another thread, he is right (and I have incidentally posted it elsewhere prior to that): marines have got used to working closely as a team, but pub aliens simply haven't had the need to prior to now. There are a few tweaks that are needed, I think (like the paper onos), but go and look at some competitive matches to see that marines don't just walk all over aliens. It's safe to assume that in that scenario, marine and alien teamwork is equal. I think that points very strongly to the main issue with pub play being that aliens don't work well enough as a team currently.
The end game on pubs IS still a problem (not seen in comp play due to people actually conceding when they're beaten, not dragging out for another 20 minutes on the off chance...). For that, I'd still like to see a higher layer of alien tech, or a bigger boost for lifeforms at say 12 biomass: something to help them against the stronger 1-base marines. This might not need to be much of a boost, especially if people actually learn how to play TOGETHER, but should still be considered, I think.
Rather than exos/jps be obtainable on one CC, they should require 2 ccs and remain available on 1 cc as long as the prototype lab remains intact.
Surely this allows for comebacks and prevents the apparent problem of marines easily tecching up with no map control!
The ability to fully upgrade with 1 tech point is opposed to map control objective and marine dynamic style of play.
Before, a marine team seating on defensive too long in mid game would lose, now the marine are encouraged to have a defensive upgrade phase, and you don't even need 2 tech points to do that.
I used to like the old marine challenge, always keep going, never let initiative down, under attack, turn offensive, not defensive.
It's gone because all you need is res, don't bother map keypoints.
I agree. The combination of jetpack and flamer is the problem. The damage of the flamer is ok for the price it has.
FT's rarely go alone.
Skulks are blinded by the flames thus making attacks difficult.
Lerks dare not engage a flamethrower given their ability to suck energy, and lack of need to aim by the marine (low energy lerk = dead lerk).
Fades and onos can take out an FT with ease.
I think the issue here is the sheer amount of traits that an FT has compared to any other weapon in game. I agree with a previous poster, perhaps less damage to aliens, more damage to structures. That way they have a singular purpose rather then a WTF everything in its path.
Also, to date the unstoppable win for Marines has been...
1) Immediately research Advanced Armory.
2) Build observation
3) Build 2 RT's only, keep marines near base
4) Scan where alien hive is
5) Beacon everybody back to base, everyone purchase FT's.
6) Comm jumps out to use personal res to spam welders for everyone
7) Marines rush alien base, kill it in less then 30 seconds
8) Game over
If the marine base gets into trouble, the comm simply beacons the marines back again, kills aliens with the FT's, and re-rush base.
1) Drop 2nd hive
2) Avoid marines
3) Hit base
4) Force beacon
5) Hit res
6) Repeat #3-#5
7) ????
8) Profit
Only 'unstoppable' if you let it be. There really are no unbeatable strats in this game. The problem is just a skill gap between the two teams.
1) Immediately research Advanced Armory.
2) Build observation
3) Build 2 RT's only, keep marines near base
4) Scan where alien hive is
5) Beacon everybody back to base, everyone purchase FT's.
6) Comm jumps out to use personal res to spam welders for everyone
7) Marines rush alien base, kill it in less then 30 seconds
8) Game over
1) Drop 2nd hive
2) Avoid marines
3) Hit base
4) Force beacon
5) Hit res
6) Repeat #3-#5
7) ????
8) Profit
Only 'unstoppable' if you let it be. There really are no unbeatable strats in this game. The problem is just a skill gap between the two teams.
Because the FT is designed to kill structures quickly, the marines can easily kill a hive very quickly, typically before a second one is built, and can take down a hive faster then aliens can take down a chair.
Marines will already have their "super weapon" while skulks with no upgrades will just die repeatedly over and over.
Regardless, clearly the point went way over your head. The FT's are overpowered and should not be able to be gotten so easily in early game.
Sounds like OP is all about nerfing marines and buffing aliens. Probably a bad idea when aliens are winning heavily in competitive. Not that I'm for balancing due to competitive, it just shows that people who have likely spent more time with the changes prior to release can figure out how to win alot as aliens, probably everyone else will catch up too.
As was stated in the other "250 sucks" thread, it's too early to be judging this stuff. I can see where people want to jump all over FT's but honestly, if they nerfed them they'd just be useless again, you all know it. You can still kill a FT if you actually attack him as a group instead of all the dueling crap that tends to go on, and it's 25 res gone if you keep it out of their hands. That's a pretty significant p-res loss.
I sound like a broken record but again...
Comp play is 6v6.....pub play is 9v9 or greater...the gameplay changes massively as numbers go up.
Comp play tells us nothing about how balanced the game play is for the bigger pool of casual/pub gamers.
Its not too early for criticism....heck I have all but stopped playing as a result of the changes and dont imagine I am alone with this.
Alien gameplay has become even less enjoyable, I dont want to invest hours trying to learn to play each class just so I can enjoy the game.
I should not be forced to play marines if I want to have fun...but sadly thats what I have to do.
Marines being able to tech up on 1 tech point was broken in the beta...and is broken now.
The amount of time a casual gamer is expected to invest into NS2 just to learn to play aliens is absurd.
Its not fun to play, even when winning alien gameplay is a hard slog to finish those marines...yet when in a similar position marines have it easy.
We have a terrible disparity between the abilities of 1 side to comeback compared to the other.
Aliens stand effectively 0 chance of coming back from 1 hive (assuming mid game onwards)...yet marines can now do it even easier (thanks to JP's, exo's etc available on 1 tech point).
Sounds like OP is all about nerfing marines and buffing aliens. Probably a bad idea when aliens are winning heavily in competitive. Not that I'm for balancing due to competitive, it just shows that people who have likely spent more time with the changes prior to release can figure out how to win alot as aliens, probably everyone else will catch up too.
As was stated in the other "250 sucks" thread, it's too early to be judging this stuff. I can see where people want to jump all over FT's but honestly, if they nerfed them they'd just be useless again, you all know it. You can still kill a FT if you actually attack him as a group instead of all the dueling crap that tends to go on, and it's 25 res gone if you keep it out of their hands. That's a pretty significant p-res loss.
I sound like a broken record but again...
Comp play is 6v6.....pub play is 9v9 or greater...the gameplay changes massively as numbers go up.
Comp play tells us nothing about how balanced the game play is for the bigger pool of casual/pub gamers.
Also pub play rarely gets the same level of coordination as comp play. A gorge, lerk and fade with umbra, enzyme is hell of a force but it's not likely to be used in pubs.
Its not too early for criticism....heck I have all but stopped playing as a result of the changes and dont imagine I am alone with this.
Alien gameplay has become even less enjoyable, I dont want to invest hours trying to learn to play each class just so I can enjoy the game.
I should not be forced to play marines if I want to have fun...but sadly thats what I have to do.
Marines being able to tech up on 1 tech point was broken in the beta...and is broken now.
The amount of time a casual gamer is expected to invest into NS2 just to learn to play aliens is absurd.
Its not fun to play, even when winning alien gameplay is a hard slog to finish those marines...yet when in a similar position marines have it easy.
We have a terrible disparity between the abilities of 1 side to comeback compared to the other.
Aliens stand effectively 0 chance of coming back from 1 hive (assuming mid game onwards)...yet marines can now do it even easier (thanks to JP's, exo's etc available on 1 tech point).
I'm still playing a bit, but finding a lot of games just being marine stomps I think that's partly due to new players but also because of relative comeback ability of each team and lack of any weakness or massive expense in marine tech right now.
for every consecutive hit on a target, increase damage by X. (depending on how tight the spread is, perhaps add a tiny threshold)
static damage: although you will be able to hit less things at once, you do more damage to what you can hit.
player damage: the flamethrower will require a wee little bit more aim than currently, but rewards with slightly higher damage when successful.
flamethrower gets put back as a support weapon with a little bit higher skill ceiling.
Marines being able to tech up on 1 tech point was broken in the beta...and is broken now.
The amount of time a casual gamer is expected to invest into NS2 just to learn to play aliens is absurd.
Its not fun to play, even when winning alien gameplay is a hard slog to finish those marines...yet when in a similar position marines have it easy.
We have a terrible disparity between the abilities of 1 side to comeback compared to the other.
Aliens stand effectively 0 chance of coming back from 1 hive (assuming mid game onwards)...yet marines can now do it even easier (thanks to JP's, exo's etc available on 1 tech point).
And the reasoning for 1-base proto is pretty much a load of crap. Really? To make it easier for marines to manage a comeback? It's pretty much implausible for aliens to manage such a feat when facing a3/w3 exo train supported by jp marines with SG/GL/FT alongside an arc train. On the flipside, breaking a marine turtle is already an exercise in frustration even before 1-base proto so the solution is to make it even harder? Then they basically made it braindead easy to ninja a facegate by removing hive sight, scouting drifters, AND ALLOWING TO BUILD ON CREEP. Tell me why creep mechanic is still in the game again considering it's nothing but a hindrance to the aliens?
The only thing that this patch did for alien comeback is the ability to go 1-base bilebomb and pray that the marine comm isn't paying enough attention to snipe a power node. Of course this also assumes the marine comm is dumb enough not to expand and basically invest everything in 1-base, but hey better than nothing I guess. Though I suppose the ability to independently power structures kinda diminishes the only real way aliens can break a 1-base siege...
Rather than exos/jps be obtainable on one CC, they should require 2 ccs and remain available on 1 cc as long as the prototype lab remains intact.
Surely this allows for comebacks and prevents the apparent problem of marines easily tecching up with no map control!
Thought I'd repost my first post for emphasis; I've not even seen anyone suggest it and yet it seems to be an insanely simple and obvious fix for what is clearly a game-retarding feature
Someone please tell me why this has been overlooked in favour of 1cc exos >__<
I hate to admit it, I never supported any change to ns2 from balance test. Gave it a chance... Stuck with it, its insanely fun. Ill try to be subtle in saying that it needs a bit of work.
Marines are insanely powerful in late game... I feel bad when gunning down a fade with a mg while spawning fresh off the portal. Flamers are insanely good. GL's are more spammy than ever, cheap, easily accessible and destructive and are something of a AA against lerks who somehow catch flack from huge splash radius.
SG makes you a demigod, or a god when one is a pro player: *BOOM-KACHUNK!* and that fade is all over the room praying that he does not catch any more flak. Ill not even mention poor skulk... JP and brutal 40res single minigun exo witch by the way, can solo an onos with literally a few pistol shots help from nearby 'rine.
Dualmini exo is pure cheat.
Now that being said I appreciate the changes but could you please either:
-make freshly spawned marins/exos buy the upgrades?
Example: 0 res for a1/w1 or 1 per a/w lvl2 and so on ond scale it for exos? Its plain idiotic that 60res exo can take down an onos before he can even close the distance. Even a crappy player like myself can go 50+ on an exo while barely being able to keep up equal k/d as an alien (and I play aliens better).
OR
- Nerf marine upgrade power. Considering you get the off the spawn they are insanely good. A3W3 vanilla marine fresh off the spawn can deal insane damage. I feel depressed when I'm 4 bites in, marine jums, turns around in flight and I'm dead because I missed fifth bite.
One CC marines can destroy aliens and require a solid teamplay and skill to take down. One hive aliens are basically a fish in the barrel.
That being said, I hope that issues will be addressed and I'm looking forward for next release.
I hate to admit it, I never supported any change to ns2 from balance test. Gave it a chance... Stuck with it, its insanely fun. Ill try to be subtle in saying that it needs a bit of work.
Marines are insanely powerful in late game... I feel bad when gunning down a fade with a mg while spawning fresh off the portal. Flamers are insanely good. GL's are more spammy than ever, cheap, easily accessible and destructive and are something of a AA against lerks who somehow catch flack from huge splash radius.
SG makes you a demigod, or a god when one is a pro player: *BOOM-KACHUNK!* and that fade is all over the room praying that he does not catch any more flak. Ill not even mention poor skulk... JP and brutal 40res single minigun exo witch by the way, can solo an onos with literally a few pistol shots help from nearby 'rine.
Dualmini exo is pure cheat.
Now that being said I appreciate the changes but could you please either:
-make freshly spawned marins/exos buy the upgrades?
Example: 0 res for a1/w1 or 1 per a/w lvl2 and so on ond scale it for exos? Its plain idiotic that 60res exo can take down an onos before he can even close the distance. Even a crappy player like myself can go 50+ on an exo while barely being able to keep up equal k/d as an alien (and I play aliens better).
OR
- Nerf marine upgrade power. Considering you get the off the spawn they are insanely good. A3W3 vanilla marine fresh off the spawn can deal insane damage. I feel depressed when I'm 4 bites in, marine jums, turns around in flight and I'm dead because I missed fifth bite.
One CC marines can destroy aliens and require a solid teamplay and skill to take down. One hive aliens are basically a fish in the barrel.
That being said, I hope that issues will be addressed and I'm looking forward for next release.
Up until tonight, I would have said I embraced the changes in 250, but after a game tonight, I see why there is so much frustration among the player base about marines being OP. Alien late game tech seem to take too long to get, whilst Marine late game tech seem to come online much faster, and is generally better than Alien late game tech. As 250 was designed to prolong the early- mid game where the most intense fights for territory happens (and it succeeds in this) by delaying Alien tech explosion in my opinion.
But because of this delay, a dominating Alien side in terms of map control, will slowly lose territory as Marine tech get to late game faster. There is also quiet alot of asymmetry in cost to losing a hive compared to a cc (actually losing a cc doesn't really matter if you have 2 as you don't really lose any tech - the dual exo, if you held the 2nd cc for a few minutes and the people with res have gotten their dualies, then it really doesn't matter. As Marines can happily operate off 1 cc, that is so easy to defend, leave 1-2 exo in base, and you can maintain it because the rest of the team can go and attack any 3-4 locations where the hives are - so aliens are spread thin.
Also the buff in exo speed, really hurts its counter the onos. A single 1 arm minigun exo can take on an onos by walking backwards and being welded by a single marine. May be exos shouldn't be able to walk backwards or shouldn't have the horizontal boosters (they can get between alien bases faster than the onos it feels.
As many others has stated, it is very hard to break a marine turtle, but most frustrating is Aliens can have all the map control and still lose (granted the marines will have to work extra hard with team work), and the aliens have to slack up just a little. But I can't help but feel, when you have 4 hives and the marines 1 cc, it should be a forgone conclusion as to who will win (especially if you have 4 onos and a number of gorges).
PS. I am talking about pubs here that are up to 10v10, but the same can apply 8v8. The scaling of the tech just doesn't seem to favour aliens very much.
In reference to balance, according to ns2stats.org, since June 26 it's been 51% aliens to 49% marine wins. In just the last 24 hours it's been 53% aliens to 46% marines. When I polled my server about it (meaning the 24 player one, with many experienced ns2 vets that frequent it), most comments made are that it's 50/50 on wins.
Now, honestly, I'm getting kind of tired of hearing about how getting teamwork on the alien team that's needed to win isn't possible on pubs. This game has been teamwork oriented since the first game, has been, always will be. You all know that, and everyone who's played this game for a good portion of time knows that. Are the games always going to be fair and balanced? Of course not, not one FPS in history has had fair and balanced games all the time. But are the mechanics in this build balanced? Pretty damn close to it, yes.
It is everyone's natural tendency to come up against something they can't beat right off the bat and to think that it must be unfair in some way. That right there is at least 90% of the source of all conversation having to do with this build, and honestly, every build before it. Give it time. If you're quitting this build after 1 week you honestly have NO GROUNDS to say anything about it.
Up until tonight, I would have said I embraced the changes in 250, but after a game tonight, I see why there is so much frustration among the player base about marines being OP. Alien late game tech seem to take too long to get, whilst Marine late game tech seem to come online much faster, and is generally better than Alien late game tech. As 250 was designed to prolong the early- mid game where the most intense fights for territory happens (and it succeeds in this) by delaying Alien tech explosion in my opinion.
But because of this delay, a dominating Alien side in terms of map control, will slowly lose territory as Marine tech get to late game faster. There is also quiet alot of asymmetry in cost to losing a hive compared to a cc (actually losing a cc doesn't really matter if you have 2 as you don't really lose any tech - the dual exo, if you held the 2nd cc for a few minutes and the people with res have gotten their dualies, then it really doesn't matter. As Marines can happily operate off 1 cc, that is so easy to defend, leave 1-2 exo in base, and you can maintain it because the rest of the team can go and attack any 3-4 locations where the hives are - so aliens are spread thin.
Also the buff in exo speed, really hurts its counter the onos. A single 1 arm minigun exo can take on an onos by walking backwards and being welded by a single marine. May be exos shouldn't be able to walk backwards or shouldn't have the horizontal boosters (they can get between alien bases faster than the onos it feels.
As many others has stated, it is very hard to break a marine turtle, but most frustrating is Aliens can have all the map control and still lose (granted the marines will have to work extra hard with team work), and the aliens have to slack up just a little. But I can't help but feel, when you have 4 hives and the marines 1 cc, it should be a forgone conclusion as to who will win (especially if you have 4 onos and a number of gorges).
PS. I am talking about pubs here that are up to 10v10, but the same can apply 8v8. The scaling of the tech just doesn't seem to favour aliens very much.
You probably summed it up the best, Aliens must dominate early game or else the game is lost, there is no "coming back".
Marines have to just not fail early on, and hold on until later in the game to win
SamusDroidColoradoJoin Date: 2013-05-13Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited July 2013
I commanded a few games today, ans by the time we got to the marines last base I was already at the max amount of "points" to build. By the time the aliens get to the last marine base they already built up the whole map leaving very little room to do anything because we maxed out team resources, but can't use it to do much because out of points to build things. Only thing I have seen, and used that is effective at breaking the marine turtles is huge whip trains. But you can't do that anymore as they quickly max out your points count to build things. And you can't send in a ton of hallucinations anymore because they are made differently.
Marines, well, they don't really have to worry about the limit because they are never going to have many macs since only 1 can weld an exo at a time, and arcs are the only thing marines would mass produce, which means they can build far more arcs, that are way more deadly than whips, and can shoot through walls. That and they can march their cheaper exos right into the hive and wreck everything with their long range weapons.
I think the max amount of points you get to build things should be increased to like 250 or something. That way we can at least do things late game.
That, and make marine upgrades more similar to alien upgrades where you need more than one to get max upgrades, either with another seperate entity for armor, so you need 1 arms lab and 1 armor lab. Or make it so you need to build 3 arms labs, and/or wep 3 armor 3 requires a second chair.
250 isn't that bad, it's a step in the right direction, but still needs quite a bit of tweaking before it is balanced.
Up until tonight, I would have said I embraced the changes in 250, but after a game tonight, I see why there is so much frustration among the player base about marines being OP. Alien late game tech seem to take too long to get, whilst Marine late game tech seem to come online much faster, and is generally better than Alien late game tech. As 250 was designed to prolong the early- mid game where the most intense fights for territory happens (and it succeeds in this) by delaying Alien tech explosion in my opinion.
But because of this delay, a dominating Alien side in terms of map control, will slowly lose territory as Marine tech get to late game faster. There is also quiet alot of asymmetry in cost to losing a hive compared to a cc (actually losing a cc doesn't really matter if you have 2 as you don't really lose any tech - the dual exo, if you held the 2nd cc for a few minutes and the people with res have gotten their dualies, then it really doesn't matter. As Marines can happily operate off 1 cc, that is so easy to defend, leave 1-2 exo in base, and you can maintain it because the rest of the team can go and attack any 3-4 locations where the hives are - so aliens are spread thin.
Also the buff in exo speed, really hurts its counter the onos. A single 1 arm minigun exo can take on an onos by walking backwards and being welded by a single marine. May be exos shouldn't be able to walk backwards or shouldn't have the horizontal boosters (they can get between alien bases faster than the onos it feels.
As many others has stated, it is very hard to break a marine turtle, but most frustrating is Aliens can have all the map control and still lose (granted the marines will have to work extra hard with team work), and the aliens have to slack up just a little. But I can't help but feel, when you have 4 hives and the marines 1 cc, it should be a forgone conclusion as to who will win (especially if you have 4 onos and a number of gorges).
PS. I am talking about pubs here that are up to 10v10, but the same can apply 8v8. The scaling of the tech just doesn't seem to favour aliens very much.
You probably summed it up the best, Aliens must dominate early game or else the game is lost, there is no "coming back".
Marines have to just not fail early on, and hold on until later in the game to win
That was an issue in 249, just the other way around. Fadeballs were so explosive and powerful that unless marines were able to consistently hold at least 5 RTs for the first ten minutes of the match aliens would win. On the other hand all aliens needed to do was hold 2-3 RTs and they would be in perfect shape.
Up until tonight, I would have said I embraced the changes in 250, but after a game tonight, I see why there is so much frustration among the player base about marines being OP. Alien late game tech seem to take too long to get, whilst Marine late game tech seem to come online much faster, and is generally better than Alien late game tech. As 250 was designed to prolong the early- mid game where the most intense fights for territory happens (and it succeeds in this) by delaying Alien tech explosion in my opinion.
But because of this delay, a dominating Alien side in terms of map control, will slowly lose territory as Marine tech get to late game faster. There is also quiet alot of asymmetry in cost to losing a hive compared to a cc (actually losing a cc doesn't really matter if you have 2 as you don't really lose any tech - the dual exo, if you held the 2nd cc for a few minutes and the people with res have gotten their dualies, then it really doesn't matter. As Marines can happily operate off 1 cc, that is so easy to defend, leave 1-2 exo in base, and you can maintain it because the rest of the team can go and attack any 3-4 locations where the hives are - so aliens are spread thin.
Also the buff in exo speed, really hurts its counter the onos. A single 1 arm minigun exo can take on an onos by walking backwards and being welded by a single marine. May be exos shouldn't be able to walk backwards or shouldn't have the horizontal boosters (they can get between alien bases faster than the onos it feels.
As many others has stated, it is very hard to break a marine turtle, but most frustrating is Aliens can have all the map control and still lose (granted the marines will have to work extra hard with team work), and the aliens have to slack up just a little. But I can't help but feel, when you have 4 hives and the marines 1 cc, it should be a forgone conclusion as to who will win (especially if you have 4 onos and a number of gorges).
PS. I am talking about pubs here that are up to 10v10, but the same can apply 8v8. The scaling of the tech just doesn't seem to favour aliens very much.
You probably summed it up the best, Aliens must dominate early game or else the game is lost, there is no "coming back".
Marines have to just not fail early on, and hold on until later in the game to win
That was an issue in 249, just the other way around. Fadeballs were so explosive and powerful that unless marines were able to consistently hold at least 5 RTs for the first ten minutes of the match aliens would win. On the other hand all aliens needed to do was hold 2-3 RTs and they would be in perfect shape.
Yeh it does feel like a lot of roles have been flipped. 249 wasn't in a good place, comebacks for both teams were pretty rare while marine turtles were too common. But it was still pretty fun, because losing as marines isn't too painful you can still shoot skulks and down the odd higher lifeform, and while losing as alien sucked balls (1 hive skulks against exos is lightyears away from 1 CC marines against onos) it was less common.
250 seems to have enabled marine come backs but left the situation for aliens as dire as always. The amount of new players is going to be influencing this, but I've seen enough games where marines sit on 1 TP then march out with exos and win to be getting annoyed by it. Losing as aliens is still dismally unfun and losing a hive starts a massive slippery slope that marines now don't experience.
I dominated with vortex today. I was stopping emergency beacons and making exos useless letting all my other buddies swarm them. The comm used 3 or 4 beacon's worth of money. And I helped our team kill several exos making a push.
In reference to balance, according to ns2stats.org, since June 26 it's been 51% aliens to 49% marine wins. In just the last 24 hours it's been 53% aliens to 46% marines. When I polled my server about it (meaning the 24 player one, with many experienced ns2 vets that frequent it), most comments made are that it's 50/50 on wins.
Now, honestly, I'm getting kind of tired of hearing about how getting teamwork on the alien team that's needed to win isn't possible on pubs. This game has been teamwork oriented since the first game, has been, always will be. You all know that, and everyone who's played this game for a good portion of time knows that. Are the games always going to be fair and balanced? Of course not, not one FPS in history has had fair and balanced games all the time. But are the mechanics in this build balanced? Pretty damn close to it, yes.
It is everyone's natural tendency to come up against something they can't beat right off the bat and to think that it must be unfair in some way. That right there is at least 90% of the source of all conversation having to do with this build, and honestly, every build before it. Give it time. If you're quitting this build after 1 week you honestly have NO GROUNDS to say anything about it.
win loss ratios mean nothing, when you have one side thats not fun to play (aliens) it matter not.
I dont care if I win...as long as I have fun.
Playing aliens has become almost totaly devoid of fun.
Even when winning alien gameplay feels like hard work, marine gameplay is the exact opposite....even on those last base turltes you can still have some fun killing skulks and higher lifeforms.
Some of us have played the BTmod so its not simply 1 week that we have been playing with these changes, besides most casual gamers are not going to invest large amounts of time to a game they are not enjoying.
Saying they need to invest weeks to learn to play simply so they can enjoy the game is not going to work.
I have a few hours a week at best to be able to play games...sadly it looks like NS2 will no longer be the game I am playing, I dont play games to get frustrated...I want to relax and have fun.
Its sad that despite having played many hours of this game I am again in a position of not enjoying the gameplay.
In reference to balance, according to ns2stats.org, since June 26 it's been 51% aliens to 49% marine wins. In just the last 24 hours it's been 53% aliens to 46% marines. When I polled my server about it (meaning the 24 player one, with many experienced ns2 vets that frequent it), most comments made are that it's 50/50 on wins.
Now, honestly, I'm getting kind of tired of hearing about how getting teamwork on the alien team that's needed to win isn't possible on pubs. This game has been teamwork oriented since the first game, has been, always will be. You all know that, and everyone who's played this game for a good portion of time knows that. Are the games always going to be fair and balanced? Of course not, not one FPS in history has had fair and balanced games all the time. But are the mechanics in this build balanced? Pretty damn close to it, yes.
It is everyone's natural tendency to come up against something they can't beat right off the bat and to think that it must be unfair in some way. That right there is at least 90% of the source of all conversation having to do with this build, and honestly, every build before it. Give it time. If you're quitting this build after 1 week you honestly have NO GROUNDS to say anything about it.
win loss ratios mean nothing, when you have one side thats not fun to play (aliens) it matter not.
I dont care if I win...as long as I have fun.
Playing aliens has become almost totaly devoid of fun.
Even when winning alien gameplay feels like hard work, marine gameplay is the exact opposite....even on those last base turltes you can still have some fun killing skulks and higher lifeforms.
Some of us have played the BTmod so its not simply 1 week that we have been playing with these changes, besides most casual gamers are not going to invest large amounts of time to a game they are not enjoying.
Saying they need to invest weeks to learn to play simply so they can enjoy the game is not going to work.
I have a few hours a week at best to be able to play games...sadly it looks like NS2 will no longer be the game I am playing, I dont play games to get frustrated...I want to relax and have fun.
Its sad that despite having played many hours of this game I am again in a position of not enjoying the gameplay.
I, on the other hand, have found the aliens of 250 to be about 10 times as much fun as 249. It might have something to do with the fact I watched videos on the new movement and figured that out first and I practiced comm'ing a bit to figure out the new tech. It's amazing what you can accomplish when you're not complaining on a game forums.
And not trying to sound too harsh here, but if your time is limited and that's your excuse for not being able to practice the new mechanics, go play a game that doesn't require time and practice to get good at, like CoD. Yeah I know I sound like a royal asshole here, but honestly, what the hell do you want from this game? Everything spoon fed to you like so many other shooters? We all know what we were getting into with this game, and most of us marched into more then willingly. However, there seems to be that persistent crowd that would rather complain that it's not easy enough for them and make up all sorts of excuses as to why, rather then just playing the game or finding another one.
In reference to balance, according to ns2stats.org, since June 26 it's been 51% aliens to 49% marine wins. In just the last 24 hours it's been 53% aliens to 46% marines. When I polled my server about it (meaning the 24 player one, with many experienced ns2 vets that frequent it), most comments made are that it's 50/50 on wins.
Now, honestly, I'm getting kind of tired of hearing about how getting teamwork on the alien team that's needed to win isn't possible on pubs. This game has been teamwork oriented since the first game, has been, always will be. You all know that, and everyone who's played this game for a good portion of time knows that. Are the games always going to be fair and balanced? Of course not, not one FPS in history has had fair and balanced games all the time. But are the mechanics in this build balanced? Pretty damn close to it, yes.
It is everyone's natural tendency to come up against something they can't beat right off the bat and to think that it must be unfair in some way. That right there is at least 90% of the source of all conversation having to do with this build, and honestly, every build before it. Give it time. If you're quitting this build after 1 week you honestly have NO GROUNDS to say anything about it.
win loss ratios mean nothing, when you have one side thats not fun to play (aliens) it matter not.
I dont care if I win...as long as I have fun.
Playing aliens has become almost totaly devoid of fun.
Even when winning alien gameplay feels like hard work, marine gameplay is the exact opposite....even on those last base turltes you can still have some fun killing skulks and higher lifeforms.
Some of us have played the BTmod so its not simply 1 week that we have been playing with these changes, besides most casual gamers are not going to invest large amounts of time to a game they are not enjoying.
Saying they need to invest weeks to learn to play simply so they can enjoy the game is not going to work.
I have a few hours a week at best to be able to play games...sadly it looks like NS2 will no longer be the game I am playing, I dont play games to get frustrated...I want to relax and have fun.
Its sad that despite having played many hours of this game I am again in a position of not enjoying the gameplay.
I, on the other hand, have found the aliens of 250 to be about 10 times as much fun as 249. It might have something to do with the fact I watched videos on the new movement and figured that out first and I practiced comm'ing a bit to figure out the new tech. It's amazing what you can accomplish when you're not complaining on a game forums.
And not trying to sound too harsh here, but if your time is limited and that's your excuse for not being able to practice the new mechanics, go play a game that doesn't require time and practice to get good at, like CoD. Yeah I know I sound like a royal asshole here, but honestly, what the hell do you want from this game? Everything spoon fed to you like so many other shooters? We all know what we were getting into with this game, and most of us marched into more then willingly. However, there seems to be that persistent crowd that would rather complain that it's not easy enough for them and make up all sorts of excuses as to why, rather then just playing the game or finding another one.
So your response to casual gamers is "go play COD"?
Well dont complain when the community all but vanishes....I think the figures after the first sale and then gorgeuos illustrates the issue the game has in retaining new players.
The skill floor needs to be accesible if you want this game to grow, sadly its heading the opposite direction.
New players are not being retained, undoubtably one of the causes is that one side is unfun to play on aliens.
Sure if you can dedicate enough time you might start to enjoy it...but most ppl are not going to do this.
Most ppl play games for fun....not to spend hours learning out how to move for each different alien lifeforms (5 of them).
And not trying to sound too harsh here, but if your time is limited and that's your excuse for not being able to practice the new mechanics, go play a game that doesn't require time and practice to get good at, like CoD. Yeah I know I sound like a royal asshole here, but honestly, what the hell do you want from this game? Everything spoon fed to you like so many other shooters? We all know what we were getting into with this game, and most of us marched into more then willingly. However, there seems to be that persistent crowd that would rather complain that it's not easy enough for them and make up all sorts of excuses as to why, rather then just playing the game or finding another one.
I think most people expect that once they learn how to play a game, they know how to play that game. I'm also pretty certain most people don't expect to have to relearn the game at the whim of the devs. You know what I want from this game? I want to be able to stop playing it for a few months, then come back and find that everything still works the way it should. Though I suppose that's asking too much from a product that's being treated as if it were still in beta or a testbed for their engine.
I also think you are mistaking why games like cod are popular amongst the masses. It's not because of what you assume to be the lack of skill involved in playing these games, but the fact that it can offer some form of satisfaction regardless of skill. That's not something possible with NS2 and the fact that you are forced to relearn the game whenever the devs decide they want you to is certainly not helping matters.
There are valid questions raised with this patch and the answer of "learn or gtfo" is unacceptable in my opinion.
I hate that people keep pointing to skulk and fade movement as the issue with new aliens. Fade movement is only an issue for the super high calibre players who completely dominated with fades before... doubt they will have trouble for long. Nothing actually fundamentally changed about skulk movement, you can play it exactly like pre patch with the only difference being that you end up going even faster now.
And not trying to sound too harsh here, but if your time is limited and that's your excuse for not being able to practice the new mechanics, go play a game that doesn't require time and practice to get good at, like CoD. Yeah I know I sound like a royal asshole here, but honestly, what the hell do you want from this game? Everything spoon fed to you like so many other shooters? We all know what we were getting into with this game, and most of us marched into more then willingly. However, there seems to be that persistent crowd that would rather complain that it's not easy enough for them and make up all sorts of excuses as to why, rather then just playing the game or finding another one.
I think most people expect that once they learn how to play a game, they know how to play that game. I'm also pretty certain most people don't expect to have to relearn the game at the whim of the devs. You know what I want from this game? I want to be able to stop playing it for a few months, then come back and find that everything still works the way it should. Though I suppose that's asking too much from a product that's being treated as if it were still in beta or a testbed for their engine.
I also think you are mistaking why games like cod are popular amongst the masses. It's not because of what you assume to be the lack of skill involved in playing these games, but the fact that it can offer some form of satisfaction regardless of skill. That's not something possible with NS2 and the fact that you are forced to relearn the game whenever the devs decide they want you to is certainly not helping matters.
There are valid questions raised with this patch and the answer of "learn or gtfo" is unacceptable in my opinion.
People probably new how to play WoW back in vanilla. Doesn't mean that if they were frozen in time and transported to that pandas expansion that they would still know how to play it. They would have to relearn that too. That's the evolution of a game. Developers try to improve upon it, it's only natural to try to improve a product. Yet people like you blast them for it, and honestly it's just silly.
And no, I'm not mistaking one bit why games like cod are popular. There's a word for "offer some form of satisfaction regardless of skill", it's called EASY. No matter how you try to sexy that up that's effectively what you're saying.
In reference to balance, according to ns2stats.org, since June 26 it's been 51% aliens to 49% marine wins. In just the last 24 hours it's been 53% aliens to 46% marines. When I polled my server about it (meaning the 24 player one, with many experienced ns2 vets that frequent it), most comments made are that it's 50/50 on wins.
Now, honestly, I'm getting kind of tired of hearing about how getting teamwork on the alien team that's needed to win isn't possible on pubs. This game has been teamwork oriented since the first game, has been, always will be. You all know that, and everyone who's played this game for a good portion of time knows that. Are the games always going to be fair and balanced? Of course not, not one FPS in history has had fair and balanced games all the time. But are the mechanics in this build balanced? Pretty damn close to it, yes.
It is everyone's natural tendency to come up against something they can't beat right off the bat and to think that it must be unfair in some way. That right there is at least 90% of the source of all conversation having to do with this build, and honestly, every build before it. Give it time. If you're quitting this build after 1 week you honestly have NO GROUNDS to say anything about it.
win loss ratios mean nothing, when you have one side thats not fun to play (aliens) it matter not.
I dont care if I win...as long as I have fun.
Playing aliens has become almost totaly devoid of fun.
Even when winning alien gameplay feels like hard work, marine gameplay is the exact opposite....even on those last base turltes you can still have some fun killing skulks and higher lifeforms.
Some of us have played the BTmod so its not simply 1 week that we have been playing with these changes, besides most casual gamers are not going to invest large amounts of time to a game they are not enjoying.
Saying they need to invest weeks to learn to play simply so they can enjoy the game is not going to work.
I have a few hours a week at best to be able to play games...sadly it looks like NS2 will no longer be the game I am playing, I dont play games to get frustrated...I want to relax and have fun.
Its sad that despite having played many hours of this game I am again in a position of not enjoying the gameplay.
I, on the other hand, have found the aliens of 250 to be about 10 times as much fun as 249. It might have something to do with the fact I watched videos on the new movement and figured that out first and I practiced comm'ing a bit to figure out the new tech. It's amazing what you can accomplish when you're not complaining on a game forums.
And not trying to sound too harsh here, but if your time is limited and that's your excuse for not being able to practice the new mechanics, go play a game that doesn't require time and practice to get good at, like CoD. Yeah I know I sound like a royal asshole here, but honestly, what the hell do you want from this game? Everything spoon fed to you like so many other shooters? We all know what we were getting into with this game, and most of us marched into more then willingly. However, there seems to be that persistent crowd that would rather complain that it's not easy enough for them and make up all sorts of excuses as to why, rather then just playing the game or finding another one.
So your response to casual gamers is "go play COD"?
Well dont complain when the community all but vanishes....I think the figures after the first sale and then gorgeuos illustrates the issue the game has in retaining new players.
The skill floor needs to be accesible if you want this game to grow, sadly its heading the opposite direction.
New players are not being retained, undoubtably one of the causes is that one side is unfun to play on aliens.
Sure if you can dedicate enough time you might start to enjoy it...but most ppl are not going to do this.
Most ppl play games for fun....not to spend hours learning out how to move for each different alien lifeforms (5 of them).
The skill floor isn't really that hard to attain. You jump next to a wall, you go faster. You keep jumping after that, you keep going faster. It took me like 30 minutes to figure out and I promise you I'm an average maybe slightly above average player at best.
Comments
FT's rarely go alone.
Skulks are blinded by the flames thus making attacks difficult.
Lerks dare not engage a flamethrower given their ability to suck energy, and lack of need to aim by the marine (low energy lerk = dead lerk).
Fades and onos can take out an FT with ease.
I think the issue here is the sheer amount of traits that an FT has compared to any other weapon in game. I agree with a previous poster, perhaps less damage to aliens, more damage to structures. That way they have a singular purpose rather then a WTF everything in its path.
Also, to date the unstoppable win for Marines has been...
1) Immediately research Advanced Armory.
2) Build observation
3) Build 2 RT's only, keep marines near base
4) Scan where alien hive is
5) Beacon everybody back to base, everyone purchase FT's.
6) Comm jumps out to use personal res to spam welders for everyone
7) Marines rush alien base, kill it in less then 30 seconds
8) Game over
If the marine base gets into trouble, the comm simply beacons the marines back again, kills aliens with the FT's, and re-rush base.
The end game on pubs IS still a problem (not seen in comp play due to people actually conceding when they're beaten, not dragging out for another 20 minutes on the off chance...). For that, I'd still like to see a higher layer of alien tech, or a bigger boost for lifeforms at say 12 biomass: something to help them against the stronger 1-base marines. This might not need to be much of a boost, especially if people actually learn how to play TOGETHER, but should still be considered, I think.
Surely this allows for comebacks and prevents the apparent problem of marines easily tecching up with no map control!
I'm curious why you think longer range on the FT would be a good idea?
Before, a marine team seating on defensive too long in mid game would lose, now the marine are encouraged to have a defensive upgrade phase, and you don't even need 2 tech points to do that.
I used to like the old marine challenge, always keep going, never let initiative down, under attack, turn offensive, not defensive.
It's gone because all you need is res, don't bother map keypoints.
1) Drop 2nd hive
2) Avoid marines
3) Hit base
4) Force beacon
5) Hit res
6) Repeat #3-#5
7) ????
8) Profit
Only 'unstoppable' if you let it be. There really are no unbeatable strats in this game. The problem is just a skill gap between the two teams.
Whether it should be a losing strategy against a weak opponent is another question.
Because the FT is designed to kill structures quickly, the marines can easily kill a hive very quickly, typically before a second one is built, and can take down a hive faster then aliens can take down a chair.
Marines will already have their "super weapon" while skulks with no upgrades will just die repeatedly over and over.
Regardless, clearly the point went way over your head. The FT's are overpowered and should not be able to be gotten so easily in early game.
I sound like a broken record but again...
Comp play is 6v6.....pub play is 9v9 or greater...the gameplay changes massively as numbers go up.
Comp play tells us nothing about how balanced the game play is for the bigger pool of casual/pub gamers.
Its not too early for criticism....heck I have all but stopped playing as a result of the changes and dont imagine I am alone with this.
Alien gameplay has become even less enjoyable, I dont want to invest hours trying to learn to play each class just so I can enjoy the game.
I should not be forced to play marines if I want to have fun...but sadly thats what I have to do.
Marines being able to tech up on 1 tech point was broken in the beta...and is broken now.
The amount of time a casual gamer is expected to invest into NS2 just to learn to play aliens is absurd.
Its not fun to play, even when winning alien gameplay is a hard slog to finish those marines...yet when in a similar position marines have it easy.
We have a terrible disparity between the abilities of 1 side to comeback compared to the other.
Aliens stand effectively 0 chance of coming back from 1 hive (assuming mid game onwards)...yet marines can now do it even easier (thanks to JP's, exo's etc available on 1 tech point).
Also pub play rarely gets the same level of coordination as comp play. A gorge, lerk and fade with umbra, enzyme is hell of a force but it's not likely to be used in pubs.
I'm still playing a bit, but finding a lot of games just being marine stomps
reduce particle effects to beam-like
for every consecutive hit on a target, increase damage by X. (depending on how tight the spread is, perhaps add a tiny threshold)
static damage: although you will be able to hit less things at once, you do more damage to what you can hit.
player damage: the flamethrower will require a wee little bit more aim than currently, but rewards with slightly higher damage when successful.
flamethrower gets put back as a support weapon with a little bit higher skill ceiling.
i basically just saved the game right here.
And the reasoning for 1-base proto is pretty much a load of crap. Really? To make it easier for marines to manage a comeback? It's pretty much implausible for aliens to manage such a feat when facing a3/w3 exo train supported by jp marines with SG/GL/FT alongside an arc train. On the flipside, breaking a marine turtle is already an exercise in frustration even before 1-base proto so the solution is to make it even harder? Then they basically made it braindead easy to ninja a facegate by removing hive sight, scouting drifters, AND ALLOWING TO BUILD ON CREEP. Tell me why creep mechanic is still in the game again considering it's nothing but a hindrance to the aliens?
The only thing that this patch did for alien comeback is the ability to go 1-base bilebomb and pray that the marine comm isn't paying enough attention to snipe a power node. Of course this also assumes the marine comm is dumb enough not to expand and basically invest everything in 1-base, but hey better than nothing I guess. Though I suppose the ability to independently power structures kinda diminishes the only real way aliens can break a 1-base siege...
Thought I'd repost my first post for emphasis; I've not even seen anyone suggest it and yet it seems to be an insanely simple and obvious fix for what is clearly a game-retarding feature
Someone please tell me why this has been overlooked in favour of 1cc exos >__<
Marines are insanely powerful in late game... I feel bad when gunning down a fade with a mg while spawning fresh off the portal. Flamers are insanely good. GL's are more spammy than ever, cheap, easily accessible and destructive and are something of a AA against lerks who somehow catch flack from huge splash radius.
SG makes you a demigod, or a god when one is a pro player: *BOOM-KACHUNK!* and that fade is all over the room praying that he does not catch any more flak. Ill not even mention poor skulk... JP and brutal 40res single minigun exo witch by the way, can solo an onos with literally a few pistol shots help from nearby 'rine.
Dualmini exo is pure cheat.
Now that being said I appreciate the changes but could you please either:
-make freshly spawned marins/exos buy the upgrades?
Example: 0 res for a1/w1 or 1 per a/w lvl2 and so on ond scale it for exos? Its plain idiotic that 60res exo can take down an onos before he can even close the distance. Even a crappy player like myself can go 50+ on an exo while barely being able to keep up equal k/d as an alien (and I play aliens better).
OR
- Nerf marine upgrade power. Considering you get the off the spawn they are insanely good. A3W3 vanilla marine fresh off the spawn can deal insane damage. I feel depressed when I'm 4 bites in, marine jums, turns around in flight and I'm dead because I missed fifth bite.
One CC marines can destroy aliens and require a solid teamplay and skill to take down. One hive aliens are basically a fish in the barrel.
That being said, I hope that issues will be addressed and I'm looking forward for next release.
Up until tonight, I would have said I embraced the changes in 250, but after a game tonight, I see why there is so much frustration among the player base about marines being OP. Alien late game tech seem to take too long to get, whilst Marine late game tech seem to come online much faster, and is generally better than Alien late game tech. As 250 was designed to prolong the early- mid game where the most intense fights for territory happens (and it succeeds in this) by delaying Alien tech explosion in my opinion.
But because of this delay, a dominating Alien side in terms of map control, will slowly lose territory as Marine tech get to late game faster. There is also quiet alot of asymmetry in cost to losing a hive compared to a cc (actually losing a cc doesn't really matter if you have 2 as you don't really lose any tech - the dual exo, if you held the 2nd cc for a few minutes and the people with res have gotten their dualies, then it really doesn't matter. As Marines can happily operate off 1 cc, that is so easy to defend, leave 1-2 exo in base, and you can maintain it because the rest of the team can go and attack any 3-4 locations where the hives are - so aliens are spread thin.
Also the buff in exo speed, really hurts its counter the onos. A single 1 arm minigun exo can take on an onos by walking backwards and being welded by a single marine. May be exos shouldn't be able to walk backwards or shouldn't have the horizontal boosters (they can get between alien bases faster than the onos it feels.
As many others has stated, it is very hard to break a marine turtle, but most frustrating is Aliens can have all the map control and still lose (granted the marines will have to work extra hard with team work), and the aliens have to slack up just a little. But I can't help but feel, when you have 4 hives and the marines 1 cc, it should be a forgone conclusion as to who will win (especially if you have 4 onos and a number of gorges).
PS. I am talking about pubs here that are up to 10v10, but the same can apply 8v8. The scaling of the tech just doesn't seem to favour aliens very much.
Now, honestly, I'm getting kind of tired of hearing about how getting teamwork on the alien team that's needed to win isn't possible on pubs. This game has been teamwork oriented since the first game, has been, always will be. You all know that, and everyone who's played this game for a good portion of time knows that. Are the games always going to be fair and balanced? Of course not, not one FPS in history has had fair and balanced games all the time. But are the mechanics in this build balanced? Pretty damn close to it, yes.
It is everyone's natural tendency to come up against something they can't beat right off the bat and to think that it must be unfair in some way. That right there is at least 90% of the source of all conversation having to do with this build, and honestly, every build before it. Give it time. If you're quitting this build after 1 week you honestly have NO GROUNDS to say anything about it.
You probably summed it up the best, Aliens must dominate early game or else the game is lost, there is no "coming back".
Marines have to just not fail early on, and hold on until later in the game to win
Marines, well, they don't really have to worry about the limit because they are never going to have many macs since only 1 can weld an exo at a time, and arcs are the only thing marines would mass produce, which means they can build far more arcs, that are way more deadly than whips, and can shoot through walls. That and they can march their cheaper exos right into the hive and wreck everything with their long range weapons.
I think the max amount of points you get to build things should be increased to like 250 or something. That way we can at least do things late game.
That, and make marine upgrades more similar to alien upgrades where you need more than one to get max upgrades, either with another seperate entity for armor, so you need 1 arms lab and 1 armor lab. Or make it so you need to build 3 arms labs, and/or wep 3 armor 3 requires a second chair.
250 isn't that bad, it's a step in the right direction, but still needs quite a bit of tweaking before it is balanced.
That was an issue in 249, just the other way around. Fadeballs were so explosive and powerful that unless marines were able to consistently hold at least 5 RTs for the first ten minutes of the match aliens would win. On the other hand all aliens needed to do was hold 2-3 RTs and they would be in perfect shape.
Yeh it does feel like a lot of roles have been flipped. 249 wasn't in a good place, comebacks for both teams were pretty rare while marine turtles were too common. But it was still pretty fun, because losing as marines isn't too painful you can still shoot skulks and down the odd higher lifeform, and while losing as alien sucked balls (1 hive skulks against exos is lightyears away from 1 CC marines against onos) it was less common.
250 seems to have enabled marine come backs but left the situation for aliens as dire as always. The amount of new players is going to be influencing this, but I've seen enough games where marines sit on 1 TP then march out with exos and win to be getting annoyed by it. Losing as aliens is still dismally unfun and losing a hive starts a massive slippery slope that marines now don't experience.
Vortex is far from useless.
win loss ratios mean nothing, when you have one side thats not fun to play (aliens) it matter not.
I dont care if I win...as long as I have fun.
Playing aliens has become almost totaly devoid of fun.
Even when winning alien gameplay feels like hard work, marine gameplay is the exact opposite....even on those last base turltes you can still have some fun killing skulks and higher lifeforms.
Some of us have played the BTmod so its not simply 1 week that we have been playing with these changes, besides most casual gamers are not going to invest large amounts of time to a game they are not enjoying.
Saying they need to invest weeks to learn to play simply so they can enjoy the game is not going to work.
I have a few hours a week at best to be able to play games...sadly it looks like NS2 will no longer be the game I am playing, I dont play games to get frustrated...I want to relax and have fun.
Its sad that despite having played many hours of this game I am again in a position of not enjoying the gameplay.
I, on the other hand, have found the aliens of 250 to be about 10 times as much fun as 249. It might have something to do with the fact I watched videos on the new movement and figured that out first and I practiced comm'ing a bit to figure out the new tech. It's amazing what you can accomplish when you're not complaining on a game forums.
And not trying to sound too harsh here, but if your time is limited and that's your excuse for not being able to practice the new mechanics, go play a game that doesn't require time and practice to get good at, like CoD. Yeah I know I sound like a royal asshole here, but honestly, what the hell do you want from this game? Everything spoon fed to you like so many other shooters? We all know what we were getting into with this game, and most of us marched into more then willingly. However, there seems to be that persistent crowd that would rather complain that it's not easy enough for them and make up all sorts of excuses as to why, rather then just playing the game or finding another one.
So your response to casual gamers is "go play COD"?
Well dont complain when the community all but vanishes....I think the figures after the first sale and then gorgeuos illustrates the issue the game has in retaining new players.
The skill floor needs to be accesible if you want this game to grow, sadly its heading the opposite direction.
New players are not being retained, undoubtably one of the causes is that one side is unfun to play on aliens.
Sure if you can dedicate enough time you might start to enjoy it...but most ppl are not going to do this.
Most ppl play games for fun....not to spend hours learning out how to move for each different alien lifeforms (5 of them).
I think most people expect that once they learn how to play a game, they know how to play that game. I'm also pretty certain most people don't expect to have to relearn the game at the whim of the devs. You know what I want from this game? I want to be able to stop playing it for a few months, then come back and find that everything still works the way it should. Though I suppose that's asking too much from a product that's being treated as if it were still in beta or a testbed for their engine.
I also think you are mistaking why games like cod are popular amongst the masses. It's not because of what you assume to be the lack of skill involved in playing these games, but the fact that it can offer some form of satisfaction regardless of skill. That's not something possible with NS2 and the fact that you are forced to relearn the game whenever the devs decide they want you to is certainly not helping matters.
There are valid questions raised with this patch and the answer of "learn or gtfo" is unacceptable in my opinion.
People probably new how to play WoW back in vanilla. Doesn't mean that if they were frozen in time and transported to that pandas expansion that they would still know how to play it. They would have to relearn that too. That's the evolution of a game. Developers try to improve upon it, it's only natural to try to improve a product. Yet people like you blast them for it, and honestly it's just silly.
And no, I'm not mistaking one bit why games like cod are popular. There's a word for "offer some form of satisfaction regardless of skill", it's called EASY. No matter how you try to sexy that up that's effectively what you're saying.
The skill floor isn't really that hard to attain. You jump next to a wall, you go faster. You keep jumping after that, you keep going faster. It took me like 30 minutes to figure out and I promise you I'm an average maybe slightly above average player at best.