Echo gorge kham
sotanaht
Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
Wondering if anyone else uses this or what you all think of the strat.
Basically using echo harvesters and gorging them up in main myself as kham. I also gorge my own upgrade structures whenever time permits (and then echo them to safer locations) and might even drop a tunnel and gorge a second hive if I think I can spare the time and there isn't anyone else doing it.
Build order is shift hive>Cysts>1drifter>shift by harverster>evolve gorge, then I start echoing out harvesters one at a time as the cysts build and healing the new one in main. When res permits I grab spurs or bile or second hive. I typically also rush gorge tunnels with this build as soon as the shift is built
Echoing harvesters has been a neat trick since 250, but I haven't seen anyone else take it a step further and gorge those harvesters themselves in main.
Basically using echo harvesters and gorging them up in main myself as kham. I also gorge my own upgrade structures whenever time permits (and then echo them to safer locations) and might even drop a tunnel and gorge a second hive if I think I can spare the time and there isn't anyone else doing it.
Build order is shift hive>Cysts>1drifter>shift by harverster>evolve gorge, then I start echoing out harvesters one at a time as the cysts build and healing the new one in main. When res permits I grab spurs or bile or second hive. I typically also rush gorge tunnels with this build as soon as the shift is built
Echoing harvesters has been a neat trick since 250, but I haven't seen anyone else take it a step further and gorge those harvesters themselves in main.
Comments
Echo literally costs 1 tres and the shift is required for tunnels and leap anyway, there's no reason not to do this if you're going shift first.
Yeah but you have celerity for the skulks, which means they should be taking MUCH fewer hits. Higher speed = harder to hit, plus they close distance faster so the marines have less time to react. Early game is won by gorges holding territory though, and they love you for adren.
Don't even need it these days, It doesn't give you much survivability anyways.
i mean, it's what.. 20 armor for fades? Aura saves much more lives than carapace does. Kthx. knowledge is everything.
Well, I usually go crag last anyway, as it's pretty useless these times. So... no, not a problem for me
I get crag second because otherwise people in pubs tend to bitch about it, even though shift shade would probably be better.
I thought Cele was something like from 10 to 12...?
Regen keeps Fades and Lerks in business for much longer.
Like like OP's strat and will probably try it, but scoffing at crag is like this ancient thing that always happens, no matter how good crag is at any point. It has the smell of "if you're leet enough you don't need hp".
Edit: I'd imagine you would NOT want to have gorges at all if you echoed harvesters. Makes the gorges just sit around and twiddle their thumbs.
Edit2: HOW THE HELL DID I MAKE A NEW POST? Oh God, don't post right after you wake up...
Gorge job is area denial. Rather than building my harvesters I want gorges building hydras and clog walls and tunnels to secure 3 base locations before I start dropping hives. It also doesn't hurt not to echo EVERY harvester;
Regen doesn't really help fades and lerks all that much. It ticks really slowly, something like 2 minutes to heal to full, so if they take anything more than a couple scratches they are going to head for a hive anyway. The number 2 cause of fade death is running out of energy, which adrenaline makes almost a non issue and is therefor a MUCH better survival tool. Aura as well since the number one cause is running into too many marines, although it does nothing to stop idiots from doing that anyway.
I can't remember how often regen tics, but spending your time munching a power somewhere to get full hp is bloody awesome.
You gotta remember regen isn't about getting full HP from zero, it's about all those scratches you take from every stray hit, it just keeps ticking all the time. That amounts to a lot of hp.
Shift first is definitely good for the khamm, and echo is now a very useful feature, but you really want crag upgrades when your fades hit if you're playing marines who can aim very well.
Referring to the regen argument, it doesn't really do much for pub games. Regen, however, does help a lot at the comp level since marines may often pinch your life form in their own territory. Even if you can stall for a few seconds before trying to escape, you already have regen'd the 40hp the cara would have given you. The same applies for the lerk.
I also build all structures in base... I don't need a front line gorge multitasking trying to build heal and shoot...
One blink max speed? That's not right at all, specially since b251.
You can still run out of energy as fade. For me, regen + adre is the best option as fade.
As 1st upgrade for skulks, I usually go for cele but I'd like to try cara more often.
Might think about shade as 1st upgrade on certain maps (veil?) but I'd rather go for one of the others.
P.S: talking about competitive.
The only problem is on public servers you run the risk of someone freaking out at the "commander needed" message, jumping into the hive themselves, and doing something stupid like dropping a second hive in a room your team doesn't even control. I can't count how many times this has happened to me, even when I've communicated to the team that I will be periodically leaving the hive to build things.
Do I have to hang on your jaw to get the rest?
Has "comp always go crag first" changed recently?
Anyhow, I would never take Adre over Aura.
Perhaps. Don't know about other teams, but I guess people have been at least trying something different since b250.
On duplex we don't usually go crag first.
2. You'd have to check if you can build harvesters faster this way. Usually, at the start of the game, I have 3 harvesters building with drifters (and possibly a passing gorge) at the same time, while the shift thing only allows one at a time (but faster with gorge).
3. I just HATE when a Comm leaves the chair, generally. Tell me where the enemy is, use drifters, give commands, plan strategy, whatever, but stay in the fucking chair! It's your job! This is NS2, not NS1.
4. full HP harvesters vs. teleporting them into locations where Marines might already be, but you don't see them. Not sure what is better.
5. forces you to go shift hive, and the shift you need to build delays quick evolution structure placement.
6. won't anybody think of the drifters? they're so cute, and useful, but now you keep them in base instead of closer to your team
7. teleporting gorge tunnel ends is majorly cool though.
8. why do comp players not do this? they go crag first?
Traveling is a non-issue. Running out of energy during a fight and then not having enough to escape is a major issue. You need to pay very close attention to it and even then you are left disengaging before you get the kills.
Regen ticks 5% every 5seconds, or something close to that. A skulk benefits while munching, but a higher lifeform probably shouldn't BE muching.
You don't have to build EVERY harvester in base. If you have 2 points cysted at once you could send a drifter to build one while you echo the second, or ideally have a gorge out on the field handling it. Your goal is to get harvesters up as fast and safe as possible, so if you have an opportunity that is faster than echo, USE IT.
There's not a lot a kham can do early in the game to help his team that doesn't revolve around getting shit built as fast as possible. You can't afford drifter micro that early, and you can spot just as well on the ground as in the hive. Getting out and gorging a hive or building a tunnel might be a little risky though, since you are too far from your hive to recyst if nothing else.
Better to teleport a full hp harvester next to a marine than to build a fresh one he can kill in 5 seconds. If it turns out to be a bad spot you have PLENTY of time for a skulk to rescue it, and it at least gives you back a little more res. I generally find that I'm fairly well aware of marine positioning in the first few minutes and it rarely happens that I echo right next to a marine anyway.
Shift Hive is great anyway, faster harvesters get the upgrades up fast enough. Rushing a single veil or shell is about the dumbest thing you can do, level one upgrades often aren't even worth the five seconds it takes a skulk to evolve them and you are just crippling your early economy which is where the snowball begins.
You can put drifters wherever you want to. Like I said not EVERY harvester needs to be built in base and you will want a drifter for the second hive anyway.
You can't teleport tunnels unfortunately. Considering you don't have a lot of control or feedback about WHICH tunnel you would be teleporting if it were an option it's probably for the best. I also don't want nooby khams moving the tunnel entrance I put in that base for a particular reason.
From what I've heard, kham gorges, whether they go shift first or not, are the standard meta in comp.
3. Your credibility just went down.
8. Because comp players can track celerity skulks. The extra ehp is worth it.
._.