--Thus increasing fades potential "independence" from other fades
I don't think this is something we should try to achieve. If you make a lifeform strong enough to be very effective on its own, (=without teamplay) you will make a ball of them overpowered.
It's simple: Whats better than 1 fade? 2 fades!
As long as they need other lifeforms to complement them, a fadeball is less likely and powerful. But creating a lifeform that doesn't need teamplay at all, will lead to the same problems we got already.
@Sewlek are all of the changes that were recently removed from the changelog still being tested, or have you decided to move in a new direction with BT?
yeah, i understand alien khamm has too much invested to simply pull the plug on it. however, what if we allowed gorges to suck out extra p-res from empty/uncapped res points, and slowed down overall p-res production, so that gorges would come out ahead, but non-gorge fades would be delayed by an extra 1-2 minutes?
Wow, what an idea. Better yet - turn harvesters into player characters! Press LMB to suck up one tres after a timer is full. Better yet, make it a punishment so that the khammander can force players to obey him! Who does not obey or has no kills will be turned to a harvester for a few minutes. That will teach them!
it doesn't have to be someone standing there looking at the node; it could be an extra dropped structure or it could use up one of your hydra slots.
FrozenNew York, NYJoin Date: 2010-07-02Member: 72228Members, Constellation
Then thanks for focusing on the least important part of what I said.
Will it make fades stronger in 1v1 scenarios? Barely. Will it make so they have some staying power to delay versus upgraded marines? Yes. Will it make them overpowered? No, the fundamental mechanics that give fades their power remains the same, but some energy concerns are relieved and when you get stuck in an escape..
@Sewlek are all of the changes that were recently removed from the changelog still being tested, or have you decided to move in a new direction with BT?
I'm really curious about this aswell. Kinda strange how the changelog got removed and there were no updates regarding it in the recent days
@sewlek: have you ever thought of combining Mines and Grenades into a single "Explosives" upgrade?
Both Mines and Nades are rarely researched (and then usually too late when they don't matter any longer). A single upgrade for all "explosives" (for 10 or 15 res, I think 10 would be better so comms get them early) might be a good idea to see them used more often (especially early game).
Also, I think 15 res to buy 3 mines is too costly, 10 would be more fair.
@sewlek: have you ever thought of combining Mines and Grenades into a single "Explosives" upgrade?
Both Mines and Nades are rarely researched (and then usually too late when they don't matter any longer). A single upgrade for all "explosives" (for 10 or 15 res, I think 10 would be better so comms get them early) might be a good idea to see them used more often (especially early game).
Also, I think 15 res to buy 3 mines is too costly, 10 would be more fair.
Yeah, considering you can barely get people to buy mines in pubs, since 1 pack of mines equals 1 GL or Jetpack, and either of those is more fun.
Mines do have their use early game, but for 15 res... you should either get more of them, or price should go down.
@sewlek: have you ever thought of combining Mines and Grenades into a single "Explosives" upgrade?
Both Mines and Nades are rarely researched (and then usually too late when they don't matter any longer). A single upgrade for all "explosives" (for 10 or 15 res, I think 10 would be better so comms get them early) might be a good idea to see them used more often (especially early game).
Also, I think 15 res to buy 3 mines is too costly, 10 would be more fair.
Yeah, considering you can barely get people to buy mines in pubs, since 1 pack of mines equals 1 GL or Jetpack, and either of those is more fun.
Mines do have their use early game, but for 15 res... you should either get more of them, or price should go down.
I dunno. If you can convince everyone to buy mines it's a pretty powerful tactic. Early game Skulks really struggle when there are loads of mines around.
Rather than the tumor ability for skulks, why not buff parasite in some way later in the game as part of the skulk/biomass upgrade? I can think of a few things that could make it more interesting/useful later in the game, can you?
Because it's the alien early game that needs a boost, and also a p-res sink to avoid the lifeform explosion problem, neither of which a late-game parasite buff would solve.
I'm starting to think this way of testing new ideas has been scrapped... based on the way the all the changes just got removed and sewlek has said nothing since then.
I couldnt play BT because no server that runs with it got players on it, but I heard that the pitch black rooms are out... get it back in!
And I couldn't play BT because the game was crashing on me for the past weeks. I agree on the pitch black rooms, though. Never even got a chance to play an actual match with them. I'd like them back too.
@sewlek: have you ever thought of combining Mines and Grenades into a single "Explosives" upgrade?
Both Mines and Nades are rarely researched (and then usually too late when they don't matter any longer). A single upgrade for all "explosives" (for 10 or 15 res, I think 10 would be better so comms get them early) might be a good idea to see them used more often (especially early game).
Also, I think 15 res to buy 3 mines is too costly, 10 would be more fair.
Didn't you just complain about commanders not having to make tech decisions anymore?
Giving marines both early defensive and offensive equipment early game would become a no-brainer.
-Own thoughts here:
At the moment I feel like fades have become too anemic, trying to get 5-6 swipes on a single marine that is competent is a nightmare now. Celerity is mandatory if you want to stand a chance in evading fire and maybe just reducing the swipe cost would allow fades some offensive staying power.
Flamer feels like a joke now that you just don't have to tag enemies to prevent energy regen, needs more energy drain now that it has to be kept on target. Maybe allow weapon upgrades to increase it effectiveness at the cost of an initial damage reduction.
Nerve gas grenades have no counters and feel overpowered when playing defensibly with arc trains or offensively on hives.
Flamer feels like a joke now that you just don't have to tag enemies to prevent energy regen, needs more energy drain now that it has to be kept on target. Maybe allow weapon upgrades to increase it effectiveness at the cost of an initial damage reduction.
If anything, flamers feel like a joke because they are ridiculously powerful for absolutely no skill involved. Just hold M1 on any alien without the need to ever reload. Hardcounter Spores, Umbra, Enzyme, Mucous Membrane, Storm and Bile Bombs, turn any Gorge structure and support chamber completely useless and negate a Contamination-Whip rush that is worth bazillions of res with just a single 25 res weapon.
No need to turn it into a "lol, I burned you - now you can't do anything anymore at all" kind of weapon as well.
Yeah it's pretty crazy the number of things that flamethrowers hard counter. I've never liked this idea of the flamethrower being a support weapon that hard counters a random assortment of things but is otherwise bad when those things aren't around. It's not fun for the marine who brings the anti-support gun when there are no support abilities being used, and on the flip side it's not fun for the Lerk or Gorge who are being completely shut down with no chance of using their abilities. And on top of that, all of this is accomplished with a pile of hidden mechanics that no one really knows about. I personally feel like the flamethrower should lose the hard counters, and just be a strong gun with a different playstyle - medium range and moderate DPS with very high sustainability due to the ammo clip, and burn damage to punish hit-and-run. That's a good role for a gun right there, there's no need to get so fancy.
Kinda sad about it, that BT no longer has all those changes. Rooms no longer go dark etc. Right now BT feels like I'm playing NS2 without BT.
Last time I spoke with Sewlek he said the darkness is just gone for now because there's no time at the moment to test that change in detail. Pretty sure it's not completely off the table and just postponed for now because too many other changes at the same time would blur the testing results.
Kinda sad about it, that BT no longer has all those changes. Rooms no longer go dark etc. Right now BT feels like I'm playing NS2 without BT.
Last time I spoke with Sewlek he said the darkness is just gone for now because there's no time at the moment to test that change in detail. Pretty sure it's not completely off the table and just postponed for now because too many other changes at the same time would blur the testing results.
What other changes though? all we have is the UI... Did he mention anything about other changes?
Yeah it's pretty crazy the number of things that flamethrowers hard counter. I've never liked this idea of the flamethrower being a support weapon that hard counters a random assortment of things but is otherwise bad when those things aren't around. It's not fun for the marine who brings the anti-support gun when there are no support abilities being used, and on the flip side it's not fun for the Lerk or Gorge who are being completely shut down with no chance of using their abilities. And on top of that, all of this is accomplished with a pile of hidden mechanics that no one really knows about. I personally feel like the flamethrower should lose the hard counters, and just be a strong gun with a different playstyle - medium range and moderate DPS with very high sustainability due to the ammo clip, and burn damage to punish hit-and-run. That's a good role for a gun right there, there's no need to get so fancy.
Indeed. It has been stated that there will be no more major balance overhauls, therefore, many of the radical changes tested in BT will no longer be considered for implementation, and, as Sewlek is in charge of balance, he is now working on how to tweak the game as it is to improve balance.
Comments
Did you skip the part about 2 hives?
it doesn't have to be someone standing there looking at the node; it could be an extra dropped structure or it could use up one of your hydra slots.
No. And it doesn't change what I wrote.
On top of this. Aliens are already overpowered with 2 hives, according to NS2stats. I don't think it would be wise to buff them at that game state.
Will it make fades stronger in 1v1 scenarios? Barely. Will it make so they have some staying power to delay versus upgraded marines? Yes. Will it make them overpowered? No, the fundamental mechanics that give fades their power remains the same, but some energy concerns are relieved and when you get stuck in an escape..
nvm ihu
I'm really curious about this aswell. Kinda strange how the changelog got removed and there were no updates regarding it in the recent days
Both Mines and Nades are rarely researched (and then usually too late when they don't matter any longer). A single upgrade for all "explosives" (for 10 or 15 res, I think 10 would be better so comms get them early) might be a good idea to see them used more often (especially early game).
Also, I think 15 res to buy 3 mines is too costly, 10 would be more fair.
Mines do have their use early game, but for 15 res... you should either get more of them, or price should go down.
I dunno. If you can convince everyone to buy mines it's a pretty powerful tactic. Early game Skulks really struggle when there are loads of mines around.
And I couldn't play BT because the game was crashing on me for the past weeks. I agree on the pitch black rooms, though. Never even got a chance to play an actual match with them. I'd like them back too.
Didn't you just complain about commanders not having to make tech decisions anymore?
Giving marines both early defensive and offensive equipment early game would become a no-brainer.
-Own thoughts here:
At the moment I feel like fades have become too anemic, trying to get 5-6 swipes on a single marine that is competent is a nightmare now. Celerity is mandatory if you want to stand a chance in evading fire and maybe just reducing the swipe cost would allow fades some offensive staying power.
Flamer feels like a joke now that you just don't have to tag enemies to prevent energy regen, needs more energy drain now that it has to be kept on target. Maybe allow weapon upgrades to increase it effectiveness at the cost of an initial damage reduction.
Nerve gas grenades have no counters and feel overpowered when playing defensibly with arc trains or offensively on hives.
If anything, flamers feel like a joke because they are ridiculously powerful for absolutely no skill involved. Just hold M1 on any alien without the need to ever reload. Hardcounter Spores, Umbra, Enzyme, Mucous Membrane, Storm and Bile Bombs, turn any Gorge structure and support chamber completely useless and negate a Contamination-Whip rush that is worth bazillions of res with just a single 25 res weapon.
No need to turn it into a "lol, I burned you - now you can't do anything anymore at all" kind of weapon as well.
Last time I spoke with Sewlek he said the darkness is just gone for now because there's no time at the moment to test that change in detail. Pretty sure it's not completely off the table and just postponed for now because too many other changes at the same time would blur the testing results.
What other changes though?
HMG.
with burn ammo.
GG.