Make concede vote not public
xen32
Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
Edit: since nobody actually reads here, I'm going to narrow this one to two lines:
Concede vote messages in chat have deep psychological effect on team, causing the rest to follow and end the game because of one single loss, game that is nowhere nearly lost. Vote statistics should not be displayed.
This post is not about removing concede function.
Concede vote messages in chat have deep psychological effect on team, causing the rest to follow and end the game because of one single loss, game that is nowhere nearly lost. Vote statistics should not be displayed.
This post is not about removing concede function.
Comments
For me its more frustrating that 1-2 dont vote and want to fight a lost game no matter what cost.
You can see how a team perform within the 1st 3-4 min.
Some indicators for an fast concede are:
- 8 marines building the base @ roundstart on an 20 slot server
- These 8 marins running like lemmings into the same direction
- These 8 marines die @ 1st engagement
Concede
At those times I am glad concede has a nowball effect.
Yes it can also be used to much, but I take that as preference over noone at all.
I remember how it was before concede. Such long long turtles.
Maybe when conceding becomes more common we can do this. If people concede enough, there's definitely zero benefits to having concede shown.
If they want to concede they can concede and they have the right to know how many have voted and so I disagree with you.
1. We are not steamrolling enemy -> concede
2. One big rush lost -> concede
3. 3rd hive down -> concede
4. Random thing goes wrong -> concede
Basically, whenever it takes some teamwork and strategy to win, people say "we can't win, we should surrender".
I think you don't get what I am talking about. If the game has really ended, people will vote regardless of who voted or not. What I am talking about, is people starting to panic right at the moment what one random thing happens. Something is lost, it doesn't really change much globally, but people feel depressed and vote concede, others see it and concede as well and we get a game that has ended because of one sneaky ninja who destroyed some upgrades / lost third base / few RTs destroyed at the same time. It's not the end of the world. But people feel that they no longer can steamroll enemy team, so they want to concede and start another game where they can try again and steamroll their opponent. When, in fact, they just have to work as a team for a minute or two.
I've seen it so many times from the other point of view: we are losing RTs here and there, losing structures, constantly dying and then suddenly we win because other team surrendered. It's always a big WTF moment, because we felt that we were the ones losing, but so did they because, well, we were killing them and their RTs from time to time. None of the teams were steamrolling other team, match was actually balanced, both felt like things are not going well for them, but one of the teams had some of those 'steamroll or concede' type players and then concede snowball effect took over and so they lost the match.
Problem with this thing is that too many games end when they shouldn't.
I remember those times with epic comebacks: res locked aliens still win, won games with just 1 hive which is just growing, one ninja marine turning whole game around. Those were to most excising matches. Now people just take an easy path: concede if start was not perfect and start a new match, repeat until you will be winning (so other team concedes in hopes to get easier round).
I'm not asking to remove concede, just don't display who voted to everyone, because it has negative psychological effects.
Are you serious? I can't remember the last time I've seen game end by normal winning conditions.
I'd like to know what servers you play on because I have almost never seen this happen. Normally games have to get pretty hopeless before I see a game end from concede.
Where I play, games end when:
Pack of arcs is destroyed (NOOB COMM BETTER INVESTED IN UPGRADES -> Concede)
Two oni die in one attack (ZOMG NOOBS -> Concede)
Marines are down to two bases (THEY ARE TOO STRONG-> Concede)
When single gorge rush fails (NO TEAMWORK -> Concede)
Few marines use badly placed gorge tunnel and get to hive (WTF IDIOT TEAM -> Concede)
Nano is arced (NO MORE ENDLESS FADES -> Concede)
Games can end literally after any lost room, engagement, lifeform or structure, it just takes few players who are pissed off enough by this fact, then the chain reaction starts. Each concede vote displayed spreads more and more depression. If you don't want to go on, well, vote and just hope that you are not alone, there is no need to persuade everyone to concede. Or else, give me EVERYTHING IS FINE vote that everybody sees. Where is optimistic alternative to concede?
The effect is very much like this:
I'm of course not talking about the people who concede because of a single failed rush, or the loss of a single tech point of many. There's no real good way to combat that kind of panic conceding other than through in-game education. When someone does this, I generally take stock of the situation over the mic, and reassure the team that we still have a chance.
This is what I am talking about. "People who concede because of a single failed rush" trigger snowball effect and game ends.
I repeat, I am not asking to remove concede vote. It should be there.
If you want to concede, keep it to yourself. If others feel the same, they will concede as well and match will end. There is no need to tell everyone that you have voted, there is no need to persuade people that they should concede now. If they feel like they want to, they will. Telling everyone that you gave up has huge psychological impact on team. Knowing that teammates no longer want to try makes everyone want to stop. So, there should be no info about who voted to concede. And, preferably, nobody should announce it via [voice]chat
The reason for this thread was every single game in 2 hours I played ending by concede. And in the last game, it was my team who decided to end the match on minute 10, because we lost every harvester outside our two TPs. Marine team wasn't event that good, they just managed to kill two RTs outside our bases and it was enough to win.
Seriously, people, what is the hate towards removing this little message that does nothing, but drives your team into depression? I see that everyone who replied here is somehow bound to this feature, like it is something NS is all about.
But in all fairness, I haven't seen snowballing effect as the cause.
But anyway, I don't think hiding that option is going to solve the issue. Avarage NS2 guy doesn't know when and when not to concede.
There's no shame in admitting you don't have a plausible chance of winning. If you often run into players who give up even due to the most minimal setback, then I feel sorry for you, but my experience says it's usually the opposite: people don't realise when they've already lost.
5min. I have +5 games DAILY when the game is UTTERLY LOST at 3-4min. Then you're supposed to either coax the team to F4 or wait for 6min. Not cool.
I could accept 5 minute, but I think @turtsmcgurt is right on the money with 7. Almost every time I see a game is "utterly lost" early on I look up at the scoreboard and find the time is about 7 minutes. There isn't a whole lot you can lose at 3 minutes that you can't come back from. It's still early enough in the game to counter any res damage or territory control point for point. Worst case the marines have phase gates up about 30 seconds ago and put one in a really nasty position, but you might be able to coordinate a counter assault in the next couple minutes. When THAT fails, the game is lost, which is probably around the 6 minute mark.
Agree 6-7 minutes... If a marine team is being stomped this is when fades go up and if they thought a couple of skulks and lerks were bad they're done for at that point. I too agree that I don't think concedes are a snow ball problem. I never see teams concede where they shouldn't but i very often see teams that don't concede when they should.
Ok, is anyone actually reading in here? This post is not about removing concede vote.
This thread is about making concede votes harder to pull off because the OP doesn't like his enemies quitting when he's stomping them. Simple enough. Concede needs to happen MORE often, not less.
I guess you didn't read anything either.
i usually don't actually read the threads I post in but base my response on the thread title, sometimes with a quick skim through of the first line or two of the OP.
Too bad many people just quit in the first seconds of losing an engagement, screwing the team and then the entire game by leaving. I guess, when the moral of the team drops drastically, everything goes to hell and only a dude with inspirational words and leadership can make a difference. Though they are rare...
if the game is so terrible that the majority of players on a team vote concede, then EVERYONE would benefit from a new game where the teams are likely to be adjusted.
It´s not the function to concede, which cause the issue. It comes from the players, which have this "casual" attitude. If they get in trouble and they have to struggle to survive they just give up.
I dont like the games which ends after 5-10 mins. This is just an indicator for an unbalanced game. I have a lot more fun with 30-60min games, nevermind if we lose or win. If both teams know how to play and react/act in a smart way, then it´s always fun. And if you lose the game you can end in honor by placing whole base with mines and die all at the same time when one skulk runs in. Instead of just conceding. As an alien team you can build penis with gorges, place many shifts, gorge tunnel in a range of 2 meters, try a last main base power rush
This is what I am talking about.