I still really don't see the reasoning of why a grenadier is now being considered a powerhouse over a fade. They're both opposite sides of the same coin, as far as I'm concerned.
Fades get instant contact splash on both their ranged attacks, and the projectiles are usually difficult to avoid if you're within his generous 'personal space'. If you get on a fade's bad side, he can usually kill you just with splash and spam.
Grenades will bounce around a bit (<i>assuming none make direct alien contact</i>), and make a distinctive clinking sound as they tumble along. This will usually give any <i>attentive</i> alien time enough to get out of there before they blast.
Fade - instant splash, but less damage than an individual grenade Grenadier - delayed explosion, but one hell of a blast
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Understand ! Do not let them know your there! Silence = no footsteps. Behind = behind their back. What do you think is going to happen? A skulk is fast and can climb walls, add silence and he's a killer in the hands of someone who avoids using direct confrontations to eliminate his opponents. Pretty damn cheap at 2 res also.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Motion Tracking. You can be as silent as you want to, but since most marine squads get motion tracking asap, kinda pointless.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I could have sworn last game we took a team of 3 HMG/ + HA 1 GL/HA into a hive, but im sorry i must be mistaken i was probably in a drunken stuper while i was commanding.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lucky you, since most of the marines on 1.04 servers have figured out that the nades absolutely annihilate everything, they pretty much ask for only that. I guess the comm could use his discretion and not give out a million nades, but on the other hand, he could just give out what the marines want, which now is usually going to be nades.
Ok, I'm gonna admit that I haven't played 1.04 due to a 120 gigabyte increase in harddrive space, but this is how I see it: the game's got tweaked a bit in favor of a tactical weapon, and that can't be a bad thing. I can see how this unbalances the game, however, because Kharaa needs to adapt to a new style of play. Fades cannot attack with acid rocket from the front anymore, they need to be as sneaky, if not sneakier than, the skulks.
About the Onos thingy: a clip from the pistol would finish of an Onos who'd took a 'nade clip in 1.03 so it's not that big of a change.
Although all the strategy I could think of went down like this:
Blink-Slash: Self-Explanatory, Slash the grenadier, I don't kill him though, he blows himself up, I take a very heavy hit of grenades dead on, vanilla lmg marine comes and kills me and 1 second while the last of the grenades blow up on me, he picks up the gl...rinse and repeat.
Acid Rocket-Run Away: I move up and shoot, hear grenades, run away, I'm standing behind a wall from about 30 meters away still getting hurt...die from extreme radius. Tried again, this time motion tracking got me as he shot tiny grenades of HUGE explosions, sending me back to the hive for re-gestation. Sometimes you don't see the explosion sprite the spam is so bad, esp. when I was fighting 3 grenadiers.
Complete Rush- Whole team attacked, lerk umbra, gorge heal, fade acid...lerk and gorge died by one grenade...fades died by three.
Soooo, anyone have any other plans, and I'm not a noob player, been playing sense 1.0 when marines completely raped, now the grenade spam is soooo much worse then before.
Perhaps someone can give me a plan that will work, can't really see a skulk with silenced eating ha marines with gls, as one grenade will kill the skulk and gls just get welded by another, still spaming grenades.
And Trikk, I'm not sure how you be sneaky when marines have motion-tracking, there's nothing to counter it without just not attacking.
How is the Grenade Launcher different then the Siege Cannon now?
<span style='color:blue'> <b>Grenade Launcher</b></span> <ul> <li>No LOS needed <li>Mobile <li>Can be equiped by anyone, anytime <li>Costs less then Siege </ul>
<span style='color:red'><b>Siege Cannon</b></span> <ul> <li>Needs a LOS or Sensory Sweep <li>Immobile <li>Very limited control <li>Requires a TF <li>Requires an upgraded TF <li>Must be built <ul>
WAIT NOW! Factor in the CLIP: <b>Grenade Launcher (4 grenades): 800 Damage</b> Siege Cannon: 360 Damage (roughly?)
Can you see how the GL is better then a Siege now? And since it can be used on ANYTHING, its even deadlier. The <b>only</b> alien that can stand up to 4 grenades is an Onos with Carapace 3, and that will leave them with about 200 health.
WTF Do the Aliens have that can kill anything in 2 hits? Don't give me that "Oh oh but Fades are GODS", <b>bull</b>. Fades can't even kill a upgraded light armor marine in 2 hits, with anything. And if your too chicken to rush a Fade, then you deserve to lose.
I play a Marine sometimes, and Fades are hard, but they arent gods and they arent hard to kill if you arent a wimp. If you can't spare to wait a few seconds to spawn after a Fade rush gone bad, then too bad for you.
I have taken down 6 marines in a row, in melee, all because they were trying to run away instead of shooting me. I've also taken down 2 Fades in a row, with nothing but a Jetpack, a HMG, and 1/2 health.
If you wanna be a wimpy camper then complain when you get owned, go back to CS. Camping dosen't pay in NS.
I think they're still tweaking, still trying to find the best middle-ground. Only the well-kept up GL'ers will shoot more than 34 grenades, if I remember correctly.. Chances are the comm isn't paying attention to something else (unless he's real good, then you're in trouble if you let him get as far as to upgrade his marines).
A forseeable problem with upgrading GL damage so much, is the percentage increase of its damage. All of a sudden, you have a nuke for 33 resources.
I personally believe Flayra will shrink its damage range first, then decrease its damage again and raise its range, and continue to do so until he finds a happy medium. Right now it sounds kinda unfair, shooting through walls and demolishing an alien before it can even close on a GL'ers backup (the vanilla lmg, usually). A solo GL'er is probably still skulkbait, though <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--TenSix+Jan 6 2003, 01:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TenSix @ Jan 6 2003, 01:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you wanna be a wimpy camper then complain when you get owned, go back to CS. Camping dosen't pay in NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if you wanna be a wimpy camper, please play skulk in the beginning! We need you!
I'm all about camping, building resource nodes, and helping the team out. Camping is a nice alien tactic, and works as a marine, too! It doesn't always work, which it oftentimes does in CS, though, so I see your point.
I still say it's a valid tactic and shouldn't cause people to go back to other games.
Pretty Sure, the siege does 700 damage, give or take. We can also argue that it has much more hp and etc.
Remember in a strategy game that also a FPS, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!
THUS!
This can happen: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->6 marines in a row, in melee<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2 Fades in a row, with nothing but a Jetpack, a HMG, and 1/2 health<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I myself have done many things out of the ordinary. Knifed an onos! It happens!
I've seen 3 HA/HMG + 1 HA/GL die to skulks! Why? Failure to work together, cover flanks, and a variety of other strategy relevant experiences.
Yes, if 3/4 + the NS community experience trouble 75% of the time, then yes it can be argued that there's something wrong.
I've been in the forums quite a while, and im tired of seeing people cry out "unfair" and "nerf" because a couple bad experiences.
ITS AN RTSFPS Anything can happen!
edit : Camping is a valid tactic in NS. Wait by a door and wait for the fade to come through then I deal as much damage as possible, not my fault hes not prudent, im being smart.
Tbh I thought the GL is perfect as it is now (1.03). Its an alternative to siege at a fraction of the cost, and a half decent offensive weapon against larger aliens. What is the logic in nerfing the siege only to return the destructive power to the marines in the form of a boosted GL. If you think about it this is actually a bonus to marines overall power/ability to win games.
Take any map, instead of sieging a hive or location at a cost of TF(25) + UG(25) + SC(25) + 3 Defending Sentrys(57), you can simply build a phase at said location and send a GL marine through for 20 + 35. Those are 1.03 costs but you get the point. The fact that siege has to be sighted by a marine now makes it redudant. If a marine can see the structures to be destroyed why the hell spend 120+ res on a siege when you can get the job done for 35?.
As for killing the GL marines, comm's will make sure they dont walk aroud alone or give them JP/HA.
Marine tactics for 1.04 will most likely change to tech rush rather than phase/siege rush, which at the end of the day will make marines just as powerful as they are now.
One thing about the GL that should be changed is the fkin size of the model, I didnt know you could shoot Tic Tacs and make them explode like bricks of c4 :/, make the model bigger, make the bouncing sound louder both logical and nesassary changes.
I usualy play and prefer marines so I wouldnt complain about this change, but I thought id point out the fact that the marines power has simply been moved out of the siege and into the GL.
<!--QuoteBegin--TenSix+Jan 6 2003, 06:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TenSix @ Jan 6 2003, 06:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How is the Grenade Launcher different then the Siege Cannon now?
<span style='color:blue'> <b>Grenade Launcher</b></span> <ul> <li>No LOS needed <li>Mobile <li>Can be equiped by anyone, anytime <li>Costs less then Siege </ul>
<span style='color:red'><b>Siege Cannon</b></span> <ul> <li>Needs a LOS or Sensory Sweep <li>Immobile <li>Very limited control <li>Requires a TF <li>Requires an upgraded TF <li>Must be built <ul>
WAIT NOW! Factor in the CLIP: <b>Grenade Launcher (4 grenades): 800 Damage</b> Siege Cannon: 360 Damage (roughly?)
Can you see how the GL is better then a Siege now? And since it can be used on ANYTHING, its even deadlier. The <b>only</b> alien that can stand up to 4 grenades is an Onos with Carapace 3, and that will leave them with about 200 health.
WTF Do the Aliens have that can kill anything in 2 hits? Don't give me that "Oh oh but Fades are GODS", <b>bull</b>. Fades can't even kill a upgraded light armor marine in 2 hits, with anything. And if your too chicken to rush a Fade, then you deserve to lose.
I play a Marine sometimes, and Fades are hard, but they arent gods and they arent hard to kill if you arent a wimp. If you can't spare to wait a few seconds to spawn after a Fade rush gone bad, then too bad for you.
I have taken down 6 marines in a row, in melee, all because they were trying to run away instead of shooting me. I've also taken down 2 Fades in a row, with nothing but a Jetpack, a HMG, and 1/2 health.
If you wanna be a wimpy camper then complain when you get owned, go back to CS. Camping dosen't pay in NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you forgot to mention the fact about a seige turret firing through walls....
I'm tired of talking about this right now. I suggest we resolve until the final 1.04 is out, or until 1.1 changes are listed.
Honestly, It's near impossible to say it that strong, it has so many drawbacks, no close-range, only 4 in per magazine then reload, most expensive weapon, many prereqs.
<!--QuoteBegin--+Hozart++Jan 6 2003, 11:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (+Hozart+ @ Jan 6 2003, 11:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It was NS nothing, we took over powersilo then took over viaduct. All is well, marines try to attack viaduct, kill them there, then they make there main base at cargo bay foyer.
Here comes the gayness...
About 40 minutes of playing, about 4 fades die every 6 minutes...against grenades that do awesome damnage and great range, even thru walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...how could you have 4 fades die every six minutes after they took two of your hives? even if you did just make a chronological error, you'd have to have an insane amount of res nodes covered, then have completely screwed up at winning the game if that were the case. ermm..mindless nitpicking, but anyhoo - i agree that the bugs should be worked out in the gl..going through walls and splash damage that doesn't decrease over range isn't a good thing, but something that seems to be overlooked is the fact that you (as an alien, i'm assuming) should have a gorge that's every bit as good as the marine commander. if your gorge is sitting around making walls of lame, maybe you should tell the marines to kill him and go gorge yourself to build a hive...it's honestly not that hard to get a 2nd/3rd hive up and running if you have as many skulks as you can being annoying little **** at the game's start with one or two to cover you while you grab nodes on the way to a hive or two. if you let marines get HA/HMG/GL, you honestly deserve to die...or at least have an extremely drawn out battle. as for motion tracking...overcome it by A: standing still (works well with the cloak upgrade) or B: take the long way around, hide (IE, stop) in corners (optional step), and ambush from behind. i have played the 1.04b servers today and i found both sides to be decent if you played it right...you can't have idiots playing gorge or com, though. geh. and the gl nades do need to be bigger and louder -P
Guys, guys. Relax. The 'nade is merely increased 10-11% in potence - gone from 180 at 1.01 to 200. What is more worrying is that upgrades now apply. Perhaps the team should consider seeing what the upgrade bug fixing has changed before they give the grenade more damage. As it is now, nades get a quadruple boost. One set 20 pts bonus, and three sets of layering upgrades.
<!--QuoteBegin--+Hozart++Jan 6 2003, 11:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (+Hozart+ @ Jan 6 2003, 11:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> About 40 minutes of playing, about 4 fades die every 6 minutes...against grenades that do awesome damnage and great range, even thru walls. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So you'resaying that you let them live for 40 minutes against a fade brigade? And you're complaining that grenades are too powerful? If you had a team that didn't completely suck, the commander wouldn't be able to afford grenades for everyone. Hell, if your team knew what NS WAS, then the marines wouldn't have even survived for 40 minutes against 2 hives. If they build up to fully upgraded grenade launchers with heavy armor, that's your fault, not the game's.
Let's just put this so marines can understand this. A marine with a GL can shot one clip in his own base and if FF is turned on full, then the entire base is gone. Those who are saying that it's not a problem havw NOT played 1.04b and are foolish for responding to a thing they know nothing about. btw I'm mostly a marine player and I find this very very powerful
heh... "I didnt know you could shoot Tic Tacs and make them explode like bricks of c4" .. funny <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> havent played on 1.04 server , but by the sound of it. its not good.
Doing damage through a solid wall is probably a bug. That it does hefty damage is only right, it's the most expensive human weapon out there. It takes forever to fill in the armory, doesn't reload quickly, has a tiny clip, doesn't explode immediately without a direct hit, and will kill the person using it if he's not careful. That's a whole heap of disadvantages that they've put on that gun, on top of its price, it's only right that it blow things away efficiently after all of that. Just look on the flip side, the fade/umbra combo. They can do tremendous damage without any fear of death, as long as grenades don't come into the picture. Even worse if a Gorge is in there, too, throwing out webs and healing everyone. How exactly are a bunch of LMG marines going to deal with that? A suicidal rush is pretty much the only way that offers any tiny smidgen of success. Aliens against a grenade launcher need to accept that same inevitability and charge the grenadier. Probably die, might not. Probably take the guy with you, at least.
I'm going to agree with the people who are stating an obvious fact - if, as the alien team, you allow the marine comm to equip a few JP/GLs or HA/GLs to his or her marines, *while you have 2 hives* and a horde of fades/lerks causing havoc... well then quite frankly - in my opinion at least - your team deserves to lose.
However! I will agree that as it stands, in 1.04b the Grenade Launcher does seem to be a bit overpowered. I myself don't believe it should damage through walls, and I believe its damage should only be full in a certain radius around the explosion, and say... be halved outside of that radius up to the limit of the blast radius. That's just my opinion though. I was thinking about it though, and I'd just like people to consider these two points:
1.) For pretty much every patch since the game came out, fades have seemed like an unstoppable force, having been powered up seemingly beyond what can be coped with. Then lo and behold, counter-strats to fades began to circulate. Sure they had abilities that seemed to give them advantages over every TSA player except the HA/HMG team... but then after days and weeks of playing, people changed their strategies to balance out the fades running amok. It just took some *time*. More than playing for a few games. Sometimes more than playing for a few days. Given that something was seemingly overpowered and wasn't going to be changed for a while (until the next patch) however, the clever and resourceful folks known as the players of NS developed counter-tactics, and the game became somewhat balanced again. That's what I see happening here - once a grenadier pops onto the map, the Kharaa will naturally adjust to pressure different areas of the map en force, forcing decisions on where and how the TSA needs to advance or respond. Thusly setting up possible traps for the dangerous GL-wieler(s). I don't know. Something along those lines. In my humble opinion, for every tactic, there's a counter-tactic just waiting to be carried out. It's just a matter of time and practice before those counter-tactics can be discovered and implimented successfully. ~shrugs~
2.) Unless I'm mistaken, the 1.04 patch, and all changes therein, are in the <i>beta</i> testing phase right now, right? You know, 1.04<b>b</b>? I'm sure that if the devs, during their hours of playtesting, find that grenades are indeed broken in the playing environment then by George they're going to change some things around. That's why it's a beta, right? To test out changes and fix any flaws found therein? So as such, I suggest that if you really hate the GLs right now, just forego playing on 1.04b servers for a while. Play on 1.03 servers until 1.04 is officially released. That way you won't have to deal with how 'broken' the changes are until they're official. And once they're official... well then you can either choose to live with those changes, or stop playing. Or play on the 1.03 servers people will still be running. Or, as I forsee will be the most common case, you can come to the Forums and bi--...whine and complain about all the changes the devs thought would make the playing environment more enjoyable to all players - not just those who play on nothing but private servers with the other 17 greatest NS players around.
Personally, I think I'm gonna just stick to playing the game and having fun. Despite any 'broken' changes or nerfs that may result from patches. Why? 'Cuz I enjoy playing the game. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well that's my opinion; take it for what you will. And please forgive me if I sounded a little bit rude towards some people... bad experiences stemming from experiences with those who think the public servers are nothing but trash. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> OK... carry on with your posting!
I think the damage from the new grenade launcher is fine. C´mon it costs 33 rp+HA so it should be powerful. And the marines needed something to fight the nasty acid rocket spammers. The only problem i see is that they are too strong against buildings. You can kill a wall of lame in seconds that costs 100+rp with only 33. Maybee they should remove the doubled damage against buildings as it does already enough in single damage mode. And i agree with the above posts that say the grenades are too small. They would not be that powerfull if they were visible. Most of the time that i die from a grenade is because i couldn´t see where the projectile was flying. If they were bigger the aliens would have no problem to evade them. So please make the grenade shell much bigger. DAMN THOSE STEALTH GRENADES <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Kilmster+Jan 6 2003, 09:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kilmster @ Jan 6 2003, 09:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The aliens deserve to have something that can counter them and force them to a third hive and maybe...
JUST MAYBE...
Force them to work together after the 2nd hive pops up on pubby games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hear hear!
...Wasn't NS supposed to be a team-based game anyway? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Yeah sure there's the whole 'marines need more teamwork than aliens' factor... but I was under the impression, at least when I picked up 1.00 back at release, that the aliens needed more teamwork than say, lerk/fade. (well if I'd known about lerk/fade at the time) You know... like... full *team* teamwork.
Unless.... unless I was MISTAKEN!! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Nah I don't think so. Best alien teams I've played on use the full teamwork that the marine teams do... pubby servers should have the same experience! Every now and again at least. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
BTW - a quick addendum to my previous post: I am a full supporter of the idea that the Kharaa team should utterly fear something the TSA can use. Grenade Launchers, being the most expensive weapon available, should fill that role nicely, IMO. They just need to be balanced a *little* bit more and voila! Finally a reliable marine counter to mid-game fades and lerks! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
God Bless the Grenade Launcher. Flayra just gave the Marines a mid-game. No more "2 hive gg" wins for the Aliens.
Have you ever seen a GL before now? No. Why? Becaues you can toss a single grenade, have it land directly on a skulk, and he will not die. Now I understand getting blasted through walls, or any number of things, but for a Grenade to land on a skulk and him just shake it off, is bull.
And as for walls of lame? I see not the problem in giving the Marines a way to get by them. However, the only problem I see, is that Marine's seem to be able to tech a little too fast. Somewhere, something along the lines, something needs to be fixed so that Marine's can't tech too fast. Increase time on upgrades? Make the GL an upgrade in itself? I mean as is a GL requires, correct me if I'm wrong, An upgraded Armory, an Arms Lab, and a Proto Lab. That in itself is pretty nice, except for the fact it doesn't really take too long to get any of that. Is it because of a bug that concerns build times? Doubtable.
So what then? Increase the times? Double them? The ARmory already takes a day and a half at times it seems to upgrade. Or maybe.... make an upgrade at the Proto Lab for increased GL Damage. Make it cost the full 50 RP. Like, make it so you need this upgrade for it to penetrate Umbra, or for the Blast damage to take effect, or it does 1.03 Damage til you get it and then it does the now boosted 1.04.
Only one bad thing about the GL. The explosion radius, not that it's too big, but it blows up through walls. Now I understand healing chambers healing through walls, I do not understand how fragments of Grenade's can go through walls, not in NS anyway. I also think some ... glitching ... a'la Day of Defeat ..... might be happening. Cause when the explosion does happen, there is no sound, just a screen that shakes, and things getting damaged.
Anyway. Thank god. Now there is no more Acid Rocket Spam, they will have to learn to use the Fade, and dear sweet jesus, MAYBE YOU'LL NEED THAT 3RD HIVE JUST TO WIN! TEAMWORK OMG GASP! </sarcasm>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The grenade launcher isn't oveprowered; but as it stands, most people who play fades are only killing because fades just so happen to be nearly unstoppable machines of death, not because they necessarily have any real skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It dosent take much to kill a Fade, its just most people are somehow afraid to rush them. I have no idea why, but if you rush a Fade you might kill it. If you DON'T rush a Fade you WILL die. Simple as that.
Don't sit there and tell me a Fade is overpowered just because most Marines are to frikin scared to rush them. I don't know how that justifies having a mobile siege cannon that can shoot through walls and kill anything in a few hits.
I've seen Marines kill 3 or 4 skulks in a row, does that mean that the LMG is god and needs to be nerfed? I've also seen a HMG kill 5 or 6 skulks in a row, lets nerf that too.
Your pretty much saying that the ability to kill more then 2 people in a row somehow makes <blank> overpowered.
As for GLs being more valuable then Siege: Back when damage was displayed numericly, Siege was doing 360 to hives (I saw this myself several times). Thats what im going on.
Also factor in, Siege damage has a drop-off radius. GLs do not. I thought GLs were ok in this patch, still needed some adjustments but they didnt need such a drastic damage increase so fast.
<b>** If I keep making personal attacks, I'm going to lose my posting privileges.**</b>
hah. like i said - aliens should spend less time on walls of lame and more on placement/hives...ever thought about staggering the buildings through a hallway? at least all your buildings won't die at once, and if staggered correctly, you should have enough def chamber cover to be effective. can't remember who said it, but this game IS NOT a DM game...it's an FPSRTS..with a decent amount of emphasis on RTS...which translates into "the strategy you use on marines will probably NOT translate into the strategy you use as an alien." anyhoo...i'm done ranting for the night. X_x
<!--QuoteBegin--QuietMischief1+Jan 6 2003, 04:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (QuietMischief1 @ Jan 6 2003, 04:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->God Bless the Grenade Launcher. Flayra just gave the Marines a mid-game. No more "2 hive gg" wins for the Aliens.
Have you ever seen a GL before now? No. Why? Becaues you can toss a single grenade, have it land directly on a skulk, and he will not die. Now I understand getting blasted through walls, or any number of things, but for a Grenade to land on a skulk and him just shake it off, is bull.
And as for walls of lame? I see not the problem in giving the Marines a way to get by them. However, the only problem I see, is that Marine's seem to be able to tech a little too fast. Somewhere, something along the lines, something needs to be fixed so that Marine's can't tech too fast. Increase time on upgrades? Make the GL an upgrade in itself? I mean as is a GL requires, correct me if I'm wrong, An upgraded Armory, an Arms Lab, and a Proto Lab. That in itself is pretty nice, except for the fact it doesn't really take too long to get any of that. Is it because of a bug that concerns build times? Doubtable.
So what then? Increase the times? Double them? The ARmory already takes a day and a half at times it seems to upgrade. Or maybe.... make an upgrade at the Proto Lab for increased GL Damage. Make it cost the full 50 RP. Like, make it so you need this upgrade for it to penetrate Umbra, or for the Blast damage to take effect, or it does 1.03 Damage til you get it and then it does the now boosted 1.04.
Only one bad thing about the GL. The explosion radius, not that it's too big, but it blows up through walls. Now I understand healing chambers healing through walls, I do not understand how fragments of Grenade's can go through walls, not in NS anyway. I also think some ... glitching ... a'la Day of Defeat ..... might be happening. Cause when the explosion does happen, there is no sound, just a screen that shakes, and things getting damaged.
Anyway. Thank god. Now there is no more Acid Rocket Spam, they will have to learn to use the Fade, and dear sweet jesus, MAYBE YOU'LL NEED THAT 3RD HIVE JUST TO WIN! TEAMWORK OMG GASP! </sarcasm>
~no you can't see the 'effing open tag can you<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ok .. wlel think about this
if 2-3 marines sit in the last hive when aliens have 2 with GLs spamming grenades... aliens wil never get in... basically rushing past the wal of explosion means being creamed to hell with HMGs.... and LMGS..AND turrets.,..
umm ur wrong...... a skulk will die in one hit -.-
and well.,.. hmmmm a grenade taking a while to explode is no problem... whoever said they should is kinda dumb.. think about it.. u see a fade approaching u.. and if grenades exploded rite when they touched the floor.. the fade would never get near u.. itd jus blow up.. cuz u keep shooting the floor ... secondly, think about this....
right now the GL takes some aiming
o and wondering.... how long does a HMG or GL from a dead marine stay on the ground for?
how about reducing GL damage... and letting HA be reused? is that possible? if money is the problem i think that would be a suitable alternative.. of coures the lasting time of HA would be lessened to perhaps 5 seconds?
[quote=If I saw a fool running around grenade spamming, I would just blink right up to his face, and tear him asunder avec mon claws.]
okay.. now with the new GL damage... (i haven't tried it.. im about tO) getting in the face of a marine wif a GL i would assume death.... and taking out to HA marines that had LMGs or HMGs? if HMGs either they were reloading or were blind.. or had low armor points... cuz if 150x2= 300 rounds.. and they couldn't kil u.. they need to see a doctor <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Grenades are currently too powerful for the ease of teching to them. Make them more expensive/longer to tech up to and it will be better. As it stands right now aliens have almost no chance whatsoever of winning a game in a 2 hive situation where marines have the 3rd hive and GLs.
<!--QuoteBegin--Mart+Jan 6 2003, 11:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mart @ Jan 6 2003, 11:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can we wait for the wall-clipping explosion bug to be fixed before this thread goes any further?
As that seems to be the main problem with the GL's overkill ability right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well I'd love to see it fixed version 1.04c then <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Aside from the wall bug, I think the real problem here is that Fades are too used to pussyfooting around, hanging around by a corner, and acid rocketing with impunity. They really ought to try playing a Fade with celerity who uses claws more than acid rockets, the difference is marked. Not to mention that it's great fun to blink into the middle of a room and start slicing marines up when they expected you to stay outside and lob in acid rockets. Give the changes time and let players adapt to them before proclaiming the end of NS and all civilization. The aliens were too complacent about having two hives; teamwork would disintegrate into batches of roving Fades with the occasional umbraing Lerk, and they'd expect to win the game. Well, now they get to stay on their toes, 'cause it ain't over 'till it's over. Hopefully that will shake them out of their overconfidence.
If you, as a fade, encounter a guy with GL(regardless of other equip), try this: Let him shoot the whole, or at least half the clip, towards you(STRAFE so you dont get hit right on).. Blink, to nearest blinkable place that is behind/to the side of him. If any grenades left, blink away if possible... otherwise, do suicide run and try to swipe him to death If no grenades left, easy kill.
Comments
Fades get instant contact splash on both their ranged attacks, and the projectiles are usually difficult to avoid if you're within his generous 'personal space'. If you get on a fade's bad side, he can usually kill you just with splash and spam.
Grenades will bounce around a bit (<i>assuming none make direct alien contact</i>), and make a distinctive clinking sound as they tumble along. This will usually give any <i>attentive</i> alien time enough to get out of there before they blast.
Fade - instant splash, but less damage than an individual grenade
Grenadier - delayed explosion, but one hell of a blast
What do you think is going to happen? A skulk is fast and can climb walls, add silence and he's a killer in the hands of someone who avoids using direct confrontations to eliminate his opponents. Pretty damn cheap at 2 res also.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Motion Tracking. You can be as silent as you want to, but since most marine squads get motion tracking asap, kinda pointless.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I could have sworn last game we took a team of 3 HMG/ + HA 1 GL/HA into a hive, but im sorry i must be mistaken i was probably in a drunken stuper while i was commanding.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lucky you, since most of the marines on 1.04 servers have figured out that the nades absolutely annihilate everything, they pretty much ask for only that. I guess the comm could use his discretion and not give out a million nades, but on the other hand, he could just give out what the marines want, which now is usually going to be nades.
About the Onos thingy: a clip from the pistol would finish of an Onos who'd took a 'nade clip in 1.03 so it's not that big of a change.
Although all the strategy I could think of went down like this:
Blink-Slash: Self-Explanatory, Slash the grenadier, I don't kill him though, he blows himself up, I take a very heavy hit of grenades dead on, vanilla lmg marine comes and kills me and 1 second while the last of the grenades blow up on me, he picks up the gl...rinse and repeat.
Acid Rocket-Run Away: I move up and shoot, hear grenades, run away, I'm standing behind a wall from about 30 meters away still getting hurt...die from extreme radius. Tried again, this time motion tracking got me as he shot tiny grenades of HUGE explosions, sending me back to the hive for re-gestation. Sometimes you don't see the explosion sprite the spam is so bad, esp. when I was fighting 3 grenadiers.
Complete Rush- Whole team attacked, lerk umbra, gorge heal, fade acid...lerk and gorge died by one grenade...fades died by three.
Soooo, anyone have any other plans, and I'm not a noob player, been playing sense 1.0 when marines completely raped, now the grenade spam is soooo much worse then before.
Perhaps someone can give me a plan that will work, can't really see a skulk with silenced eating ha marines with gls, as one grenade will kill the skulk and gls just get welded by another, still spaming grenades.
And Trikk, I'm not sure how you be sneaky when marines have motion-tracking, there's nothing to counter it without just not attacking.
Okay, I'm done posting, I'm going to bed.
<span style='color:blue'> <b>Grenade Launcher</b></span>
<ul>
<li>No LOS needed
<li>Mobile
<li>Can be equiped by anyone, anytime
<li>Costs less then Siege
</ul>
<span style='color:red'><b>Siege Cannon</b></span>
<ul>
<li>Needs a LOS or Sensory Sweep
<li>Immobile
<li>Very limited control
<li>Requires a TF
<li>Requires an upgraded TF
<li>Must be built
<ul>
Grenade Launcher: 200 Damage
Siege Cannon: 360 Damage (roughly?)
WAIT NOW! Factor in the CLIP:
<b>Grenade Launcher (4 grenades): 800 Damage</b>
Siege Cannon: 360 Damage (roughly?)
Can you see how the GL is better then a Siege now? And since it can be used on ANYTHING, its even deadlier. The <b>only</b> alien that can stand up to 4 grenades is an Onos with Carapace 3, and that will leave them with about 200 health.
WTF Do the Aliens have that can kill anything in 2 hits? Don't give me that "Oh oh but Fades are GODS", <b>bull</b>. Fades can't even kill a upgraded light armor marine in 2 hits, with anything. And if your too chicken to rush a Fade, then you deserve to lose.
I play a Marine sometimes, and Fades are hard, but they arent gods and they arent hard to kill if you arent a wimp. If you can't spare to wait a few seconds to spawn after a Fade rush gone bad, then too bad for you.
I have taken down 6 marines in a row, in melee, all because they were trying to run away instead of shooting me. I've also taken down 2 Fades in a row, with nothing but a Jetpack, a HMG, and 1/2 health.
If you wanna be a wimpy camper then complain when you get owned, go back to CS. Camping dosen't pay in NS.
A forseeable problem with upgrading GL damage so much, is the percentage increase of its damage. All of a sudden, you have a nuke for 33 resources.
I personally believe Flayra will shrink its damage range first, then decrease its damage again and raise its range, and continue to do so until he finds a happy medium. Right now it sounds kinda unfair, shooting through walls and demolishing an alien before it can even close on a GL'ers backup (the vanilla lmg, usually). A solo GL'er is probably still skulkbait, though <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you wanna be a wimpy camper, please play skulk in the beginning! We need you!
I'm all about camping, building resource nodes, and helping the team out. Camping is a nice alien tactic, and works as a marine, too! It doesn't always work, which it oftentimes does in CS, though, so I see your point.
I still say it's a valid tactic and shouldn't cause people to go back to other games.
Grenade Launcher (4 grenades): 800 Damage
Siege Cannon: 360 Damage (roughly?)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty Sure, the siege does 700 damage, give or take. We can also argue that it has much more hp and etc.
Remember in a strategy game that also a FPS, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!
THUS!
This can happen:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->6 marines in a row, in melee<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2 Fades in a row, with nothing but a Jetpack, a HMG, and 1/2 health<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I myself have done many things out of the ordinary. Knifed an onos! It happens!
I've seen 3 HA/HMG + 1 HA/GL die to skulks! Why? Failure to work together, cover flanks, and a variety of other strategy relevant experiences.
Yes, if 3/4 + the NS community experience trouble 75% of the time, then yes it can be argued that there's something wrong.
I've been in the forums quite a while, and im tired of seeing people cry out "unfair" and "nerf" because a couple bad experiences.
ITS AN RTSFPS Anything can happen!
edit : Camping is a valid tactic in NS. Wait by a door and wait for the fade to come through then I deal as much damage as possible, not my fault hes not prudent, im being smart.
What is the logic in nerfing the siege only to return the destructive power to the marines in the form of a boosted GL. If you think about it this is actually a bonus to marines overall power/ability to win games.
Take any map, instead of sieging a hive or location at a cost of TF(25) + UG(25) + SC(25) + 3 Defending Sentrys(57), you can simply build a phase at said location and send a GL marine through for 20 + 35. Those are 1.03 costs but you get the point. The fact that siege has to be sighted by a marine now makes it redudant. If a marine can see the structures to be destroyed why the hell spend 120+ res on a siege when you can get the job done for 35?.
As for killing the GL marines, comm's will make sure they dont walk aroud alone or give them JP/HA.
Marine tactics for 1.04 will most likely change to tech rush rather than phase/siege rush, which at the end of the day will make marines just as powerful as they are now.
One thing about the GL that should be changed is the fkin size of the model, I didnt know you could shoot Tic Tacs and make them explode like bricks of c4 :/, make the model bigger, make the bouncing sound louder both logical and nesassary changes.
I usualy play and prefer marines so I wouldnt complain about this change, but I thought id point out the fact that the marines power has simply been moved out of the siege and into the GL.
<span style='color:blue'> <b>Grenade Launcher</b></span>
<ul>
<li>No LOS needed
<li>Mobile
<li>Can be equiped by anyone, anytime
<li>Costs less then Siege
</ul>
<span style='color:red'><b>Siege Cannon</b></span>
<ul>
<li>Needs a LOS or Sensory Sweep
<li>Immobile
<li>Very limited control
<li>Requires a TF
<li>Requires an upgraded TF
<li>Must be built
<ul>
Grenade Launcher: 200 Damage
Siege Cannon: 360 Damage (roughly?)
WAIT NOW! Factor in the CLIP:
<b>Grenade Launcher (4 grenades): 800 Damage</b>
Siege Cannon: 360 Damage (roughly?)
Can you see how the GL is better then a Siege now? And since it can be used on ANYTHING, its even deadlier. The <b>only</b> alien that can stand up to 4 grenades is an Onos with Carapace 3, and that will leave them with about 200 health.
WTF Do the Aliens have that can kill anything in 2 hits? Don't give me that "Oh oh but Fades are GODS", <b>bull</b>. Fades can't even kill a upgraded light armor marine in 2 hits, with anything. And if your too chicken to rush a Fade, then you deserve to lose.
I play a Marine sometimes, and Fades are hard, but they arent gods and they arent hard to kill if you arent a wimp. If you can't spare to wait a few seconds to spawn after a Fade rush gone bad, then too bad for you.
I have taken down 6 marines in a row, in melee, all because they were trying to run away instead of shooting me. I've also taken down 2 Fades in a row, with nothing but a Jetpack, a HMG, and 1/2 health.
If you wanna be a wimpy camper then complain when you get owned, go back to CS. Camping dosen't pay in NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you forgot to mention the fact about a seige turret firing through walls....
And that it has protection of turrets....
and that it can be used with scanner sweep...
Seige turret sucking my caboose is complete crap.
Honestly, It's near impossible to say it that strong, it has so many drawbacks, no close-range, only 4 in per magazine then reload, most expensive weapon, many prereqs.
Adapt to the situation, don't change it.
Here comes the gayness...
About 40 minutes of playing, about 4 fades die every 6 minutes...against grenades that do awesome damnage and great range, even thru walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...how could you have 4 fades die every six minutes after they took two of your hives? even if you did just make a chronological error, you'd have to have an insane amount of res nodes covered, then have completely screwed up at winning the game if that were the case. ermm..mindless nitpicking, but anyhoo - i agree that the bugs should be worked out in the gl..going through walls and splash damage that doesn't decrease over range isn't a good thing, but something that seems to be overlooked is the fact that you (as an alien, i'm assuming) should have a gorge that's every bit as good as the marine commander. if your gorge is sitting around making walls of lame, maybe you should tell the marines to kill him and go gorge yourself to build a hive...it's honestly not that hard to get a 2nd/3rd hive up and running if you have as many skulks as you can being annoying little **** at the game's start with one or two to cover you while you grab nodes on the way to a hive or two. if you let marines get HA/HMG/GL, you honestly deserve to die...or at least have an extremely drawn out battle. as for motion tracking...overcome it by A: standing still (works well with the cloak upgrade) or B: take the long way around, hide (IE, stop) in corners (optional step), and ambush from behind. i have played the 1.04b servers today and i found both sides to be decent if you played it right...you can't have idiots playing gorge or com, though. geh. and the gl nades do need to be bigger and louder -P
About 40 minutes of playing, about 4 fades die every 6 minutes...against grenades that do awesome damnage and great range, even thru walls.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you'resaying that you let them live for 40 minutes against a fade brigade? And you're complaining that grenades are too powerful? If you had a team that didn't completely suck, the commander wouldn't be able to afford grenades for everyone. Hell, if your team knew what NS WAS, then the marines wouldn't have even survived for 40 minutes against 2 hives. If they build up to fully upgraded grenade launchers with heavy armor, that's your fault, not the game's.
A marine with a GL can shot one clip in his own base and if FF is turned on full, then the entire base is gone. Those who are saying that it's not a problem havw NOT played 1.04b and are foolish for responding to a thing they know nothing about.
btw I'm mostly a marine player and I find this very very powerful
"I didnt know you could shoot Tic Tacs and make them explode like bricks of c4" .. funny <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
havent played on 1.04 server , but by the sound of it. its not good.
cheers
mystiqq <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
However! I will agree that as it stands, in 1.04b the Grenade Launcher does seem to be a bit overpowered. I myself don't believe it should damage through walls, and I believe its damage should only be full in a certain radius around the explosion, and say... be halved outside of that radius up to the limit of the blast radius. That's just my opinion though. I was thinking about it though, and I'd just like people to consider these two points:
1.) For pretty much every patch since the game came out, fades have seemed like an unstoppable force, having been powered up seemingly beyond what can be coped with. Then lo and behold, counter-strats to fades began to circulate. Sure they had abilities that seemed to give them advantages over every TSA player except the HA/HMG team... but then after days and weeks of playing, people changed their strategies to balance out the fades running amok. It just took some *time*. More than playing for a few games. Sometimes more than playing for a few days. Given that something was seemingly overpowered and wasn't going to be changed for a while (until the next patch) however, the clever and resourceful folks known as the players of NS developed counter-tactics, and the game became somewhat balanced again. That's what I see happening here - once a grenadier pops onto the map, the Kharaa will naturally adjust to pressure different areas of the map en force, forcing decisions on where and how the TSA needs to advance or respond. Thusly setting up possible traps for the dangerous GL-wieler(s). I don't know. Something along those lines. In my humble opinion, for every tactic, there's a counter-tactic just waiting to be carried out. It's just a matter of time and practice before those counter-tactics can be discovered and implimented successfully. ~shrugs~
2.) Unless I'm mistaken, the 1.04 patch, and all changes therein, are in the <i>beta</i> testing phase right now, right? You know, 1.04<b>b</b>? I'm sure that if the devs, during their hours of playtesting, find that grenades are indeed broken in the playing environment then by George they're going to change some things around. That's why it's a beta, right? To test out changes and fix any flaws found therein? So as such, I suggest that if you really hate the GLs right now, just forego playing on 1.04b servers for a while. Play on 1.03 servers until 1.04 is officially released. That way you won't have to deal with how 'broken' the changes are until they're official. And once they're official... well then you can either choose to live with those changes, or stop playing. Or play on the 1.03 servers people will still be running. Or, as I forsee will be the most common case, you can come to the Forums and bi--...whine and complain about all the changes the devs thought would make the playing environment more enjoyable to all players - not just those who play on nothing but private servers with the other 17 greatest NS players around.
Personally, I think I'm gonna just stick to playing the game and having fun. Despite any 'broken' changes or nerfs that may result from patches. Why? 'Cuz I enjoy playing the game. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well that's my opinion; take it for what you will. And please forgive me if I sounded a little bit rude towards some people... bad experiences stemming from experiences with those who think the public servers are nothing but trash. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> OK... carry on with your posting!
JUST MAYBE...
Force them to work together after the 2nd hive pops up on pubby games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hear hear!
...Wasn't NS supposed to be a team-based game anyway? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Yeah sure there's the whole 'marines need more teamwork than aliens' factor... but I was under the impression, at least when I picked up 1.00 back at release, that the aliens needed more teamwork than say, lerk/fade. (well if I'd known about lerk/fade at the time) You know... like... full *team* teamwork.
Unless.... unless I was MISTAKEN!! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Nah I don't think so. Best alien teams I've played on use the full teamwork that the marine teams do... pubby servers should have the same experience! Every now and again at least. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
BTW - a quick addendum to my previous post: I am a full supporter of the idea that the Kharaa team should utterly fear something the TSA can use. Grenade Launchers, being the most expensive weapon available, should fill that role nicely, IMO. They just need to be balanced a *little* bit more and voila! Finally a reliable marine counter to mid-game fades and lerks! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Have you ever seen a GL before now? No. Why? Becaues you can toss a single grenade, have it land directly on a skulk, and he will not die. Now I understand getting blasted through walls, or any number of things, but for a Grenade to land on a skulk and him just shake it off, is bull.
And as for walls of lame? I see not the problem in giving the Marines a way to get by them. However, the only problem I see, is that Marine's seem to be able to tech a little too fast. Somewhere, something along the lines, something needs to be fixed so that Marine's can't tech too fast. Increase time on upgrades? Make the GL an upgrade in itself? I mean as is a GL requires, correct me if I'm wrong, An upgraded Armory, an Arms Lab, and a Proto Lab. That in itself is pretty nice, except for the fact it doesn't really take too long to get any of that. Is it because of a bug that concerns build times? Doubtable.
So what then? Increase the times? Double them? The ARmory already takes a day and a half at times it seems to upgrade. Or maybe.... make an upgrade at the Proto Lab for increased GL Damage. Make it cost the full 50 RP. Like, make it so you need this upgrade for it to penetrate Umbra, or for the Blast damage to take effect, or it does 1.03 Damage til you get it and then it does the now boosted 1.04.
Only one bad thing about the GL. The explosion radius, not that it's too big, but it blows up through walls. Now I understand healing chambers healing through walls, I do not understand how fragments of Grenade's can go through walls, not in NS anyway. I also think some ... glitching ... a'la Day of Defeat ..... might be happening. Cause when the explosion does happen, there is no sound, just a screen that shakes, and things getting damaged.
Anyway. Thank god. Now there is no more Acid Rocket Spam, they will have to learn to use the Fade, and dear sweet jesus, MAYBE YOU'LL NEED THAT 3RD HIVE JUST TO WIN! TEAMWORK OMG GASP! </sarcasm>
~no you can't see the 'effing open tag can you
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It dosent take much to kill a Fade, its just most people are somehow afraid to rush them. I have no idea why, but if you rush a Fade you might kill it. If you DON'T rush a Fade you WILL die. Simple as that.
Don't sit there and tell me a Fade is overpowered just because most Marines are to frikin scared to rush them. I don't know how that justifies having a mobile siege cannon that can shoot through walls and kill anything in a few hits.
I've seen Marines kill 3 or 4 skulks in a row, does that mean that the LMG is god and needs to be nerfed? I've also seen a HMG kill 5 or 6 skulks in a row, lets nerf that too.
Your pretty much saying that the ability to kill more then 2 people in a row somehow makes <blank> overpowered.
As for GLs being more valuable then Siege: Back when damage was displayed numericly, Siege was doing 360 to hives (I saw this myself several times). Thats what im going on.
Also factor in, Siege damage has a drop-off radius. GLs do not. I thought GLs were ok in this patch, still needed some adjustments but they didnt need such a drastic damage increase so fast.
<b>** If I keep making personal attacks, I'm going to lose my posting privileges.**</b>
As that seems to be the main problem with the GL's overkill ability right now.
Have you ever seen a GL before now? No. Why? Becaues you can toss a single grenade, have it land directly on a skulk, and he will not die. Now I understand getting blasted through walls, or any number of things, but for a Grenade to land on a skulk and him just shake it off, is bull.
And as for walls of lame? I see not the problem in giving the Marines a way to get by them. However, the only problem I see, is that Marine's seem to be able to tech a little too fast. Somewhere, something along the lines, something needs to be fixed so that Marine's can't tech too fast. Increase time on upgrades? Make the GL an upgrade in itself? I mean as is a GL requires, correct me if I'm wrong, An upgraded Armory, an Arms Lab, and a Proto Lab. That in itself is pretty nice, except for the fact it doesn't really take too long to get any of that. Is it because of a bug that concerns build times? Doubtable.
So what then? Increase the times? Double them? The ARmory already takes a day and a half at times it seems to upgrade. Or maybe.... make an upgrade at the Proto Lab for increased GL Damage. Make it cost the full 50 RP. Like, make it so you need this upgrade for it to penetrate Umbra, or for the Blast damage to take effect, or it does 1.03 Damage til you get it and then it does the now boosted 1.04.
Only one bad thing about the GL. The explosion radius, not that it's too big, but it blows up through walls. Now I understand healing chambers healing through walls, I do not understand how fragments of Grenade's can go through walls, not in NS anyway. I also think some ... glitching ... a'la Day of Defeat ..... might be happening. Cause when the explosion does happen, there is no sound, just a screen that shakes, and things getting damaged.
Anyway. Thank god. Now there is no more Acid Rocket Spam, they will have to learn to use the Fade, and dear sweet jesus, MAYBE YOU'LL NEED THAT 3RD HIVE JUST TO WIN! TEAMWORK OMG GASP! </sarcasm>
~no you can't see the 'effing open tag can you<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok .. wlel think about this
if 2-3 marines sit in the last hive when aliens have 2 with GLs spamming grenades... aliens wil never get in... basically rushing past the wal of explosion means being creamed to hell with HMGs.... and LMGS..AND turrets.,..
umm ur wrong...... a skulk will die in one hit -.-
and well.,.. hmmmm a grenade taking a while to explode is no problem... whoever said they should is kinda dumb.. think about it.. u see a fade approaching u.. and if grenades exploded rite when they touched the floor.. the fade would never get near u.. itd jus blow up.. cuz u keep shooting the floor ... secondly, think about this....
right now the GL takes some aiming
o and wondering.... how long does a HMG or GL from a dead marine stay on the ground for?
how about reducing GL damage... and letting HA be reused? is that possible? if money is the problem i think that would be a suitable alternative.. of coures the lasting time of HA would be lessened to perhaps 5 seconds?
[quote=If I saw a fool running around grenade spamming, I would just blink right up to his face, and tear him asunder avec mon claws.]
okay.. now with the new GL damage... (i haven't tried it.. im about tO) getting in the face of a marine wif a GL i would assume death.... and taking out to HA marines that had LMGs or HMGs? if HMGs either they were reloading or were blind.. or had low armor points... cuz if 150x2= 300 rounds.. and they couldn't kil u.. they need to see a doctor <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As that seems to be the main problem with the GL's overkill ability right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I'd love to see it fixed version 1.04c then <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Let him shoot the whole, or at least half the clip, towards you(STRAFE so you dont get hit right on)..
Blink, to nearest blinkable place that is behind/to the side of him.
If any grenades left, blink away if possible... otherwise, do suicide run and try to swipe him to death
If no grenades left, easy kill.