Cysts need less health at full maturity

Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
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  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I dont agree, removing cysts is easy enough right now and lack of infestation does some serious structure damage.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Removing cyst spam all over the map is not easy, especially as player count decreases to 6v6. It takes a lot of time/ammo (3 shotgun shells or a full clip of rifle) and during that period whips can be echoed or lifeforms can show up to defend. You can't ignore them either due to the echo issue.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    I think the fact that w0 rifle kills a cyst almost is pretty neat.
  • FAIL_MurdocFAIL_Murdoc Join Date: 2013-08-30 Member: 187257Members, NS2 Playtester, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
    Why do you think that?
    They are easily axed down if you dont want to waste any ammo on them.
    By cutting them you can deal a lot of damage to e.g. an extractor.
    I think it is already pretty easy to kill them.
  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    I think it could be easier. An entire clip of lmg not being enough to kill a single cyst is pretty ridic. Then we could remove the awful 'Commander must wait' red circles of doom.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Why do you think that?
    They are easily axed down if you dont want to waste any ammo on them.
    By cutting them you can deal a lot of damage to e.g. an extractor.
    I think it is already pretty easy to kill them.

    It's not about the ammo so much as the time it takes to do it. Which is shown by the amount of ammo that's needed. If you do axe, you're spending a LOT of time looking down with no gun out just waiting to die.

    Agree with @Jekt that if we nerfed their hp we could remove that awful balance UI block. Which doesn't even matter anyway since insta dropped cysts will die in two bullets so if the comm was to spam cysts non stop he'd just lose all his res. WHY DO THEY EXIST?!
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Why do you think that?
    They are easily axed down if you dont want to waste any ammo on them.
    By cutting them you can deal a lot of damage to e.g. an extractor.
    I think it is already pretty easy to kill them.

    It's not about the ammo so much as the time it takes to do it. Which is shown by the amount of ammo that's needed. If you do axe, you're spending a LOT of time looking down with no gun out just waiting to die.

    Agree with @Jekt that if we nerfed their hp we could remove that awful balance UI block. Which doesn't even matter anyway since insta dropped cysts will die in two bullets so if the comm was to spam cysts non stop he'd just lose all his res. WHY DO THEY EXIST?!

    Funny thing is: If you place a cyst somewhere else, and the automatic cysting happens to place a cyst of the chain in the red circle, it will not die (afaik). I, too, think it's pretty pointless.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    No I kinda like that if I can buy time for my cysts to grow they're more durable, also as a marine killing a chain of freshly dropped cysts is satisfying because you know you wouldn't have been able to do that if you came later.

    Also I always bother to kill harvester cyst before the harvester, so in that regard the hp seems fine.

    Why was red doom circles implemented in the first place, can't remember. Somekinda problem with spam?
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Spam is the only reason I can imagine yes.

    And yes, a single cyst is not too much to kill next to a node or anything. It's when the kham has cysted every room with 10 fucking cysts it becomes rediculous. You simply CAN'T clear the whole room before either A. aliens show up and either stall you indefinitely or kill you after you use bullets, or B. the kham echos whips onto you.

    Also, @F0rdPrefect I really hate the auto cyst system as it makes precise cysting so much harder, half the time it wants to connect to some other chain and the other half it just tries to put one in between the cyst you want and the last cyst you have. You should be able to turn it off as an option in the kham UI and use only manual cysting if you wish.

    Also the fact that if you drop two chains out of your hive in two different directions only one chain will start growing, the other will not start until the first chain has completely finished, is pretty dumb. But that's for another thread.
  • MoFoMoFo Join Date: 2013-09-09 Member: 188047Members
    edited November 2013
    I find cysts pretty easy to kill.

    I never use my rifle, always pistol and/or axe, and they go down really fast.

    If anything I've always thought they should get a tiny bit more health with each biomass. Not much, just enough so a biomass 9 cyst would take a little bit more time/ammo to destroy.
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    And yes, a single cyst is not too much to kill next to a node or anything. It's when the kham has cysted every room with 10 fucking cysts it becomes rediculous. You simply CAN'T clear the whole room before either A. aliens show up and either stall you indefinitely or kill you after you use bullets, or B. the kham echos whips onto you.

    I just ignore the room and break the cysts that lead there. Broken cyst chain = dead cysts.
  • CD121CD121 Join Date: 2013-04-04 Member: 184635Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Pop'em with your welder, boom. Done
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    MoFo wrote: »
    I just ignore the room and break the cysts that lead there. Broken cyst chain = dead cysts.

    No, broken cyst chain means the first cyst in the chain will slowly die, and when it has died the next cyst in the broken chain will slowly die. Repeat. They don't all just start dying unfortunately (they should). So a broken cyst chain can stay up a LONG time if it has enough cysts some way through it.
  • ns2isgoodns2isgood Join Date: 2013-04-16 Member: 184847Members
    They can surely be adjusted in some scenarios. It's funny using an exo minigun and 1 cyst causing your minigun to overheat, lol.
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Gotta love how it takes a full rifle clip to kill something that costs 1 tres
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    edited November 2013
    It is really tedious to kill cysts in a 6v6 when the alien comm is swimming in res in mid / late game. You often don't have the time to kill the cysts, because you are either pushing for harvesters /upgrades / hives or already awaiting the aliens where you can't pull your axe out to kill cysts.

    I'd say keep the current health, but increase the damage over time for unconnected cysts.

    Not even through sheer number tweaking, but so that the second, third and maybe forth cyst also receives (reduced) damage over time.

    Aliens would have to heal (or recyst) their cysts more often or risk to suddenly lose bigger parts of cyst chain throughout the game.

  • FAIL_MurdocFAIL_Murdoc Join Date: 2013-08-30 Member: 187257Members, NS2 Playtester, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
    Gotta love how it takes a full rifle clip to kill something that costs 1 tres
    Thats why you use your axe/welder.

    Also something that is so important for the aliens shouldnt die after a few bullets.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Bicsum wrote: »
    It is really tedious to kill cysts in a 6v6 when the alien comm is swimming in res in mid / late game. You often don't have the time to kill the cysts, because you are either pushing for harvesters /upgrades / hives or already awaiting the aliens where you can't pull your axe out to kill cysts.

    I'd say keep the current health, but increase the damage over time for unconnected cysts.

    Not even through sheer number tweaking, but so that the second, third and maybe forth cyst also receives (reduced) damage over time.

    Aliens would have to heal (or recyst) their cysts more often or risk to suddenly lose bigger parts of cyst chain throughout the game.

    That won't work when all the comm has to do is drop a cyst to make them "connected" again, stopping them taking damage, then you kill the cyst again only for a repeat. They just won't die fast enough and the time it takes isn't worth it. Let us fucking kill them with weapons.
  • BiggisBiggis Finland Join Date: 2004-02-11 Member: 26407Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I think they should be even stronger but hold a greater value to the alien team (infest larger areas or take out lights for example) and have a greater reward for destroying them. ps. Darn them flamethrowers popping cysts like corn..
  • kalakujakalakuja Join Date: 2012-09-11 Member: 159045Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter
    killing all cysts lowers the rts hp so much. imo the hp is fine.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    You should be able to turn it off as an option in the kham UI and use only manual cysting if you wish.

    I agree.
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Gotta love how it takes a full rifle clip to kill something that costs 1 tres
    Thats why you use your axe/welder.

    Also something that is so important for the aliens shouldnt die after a few bullets.

    And thereby opening yourself up to an easy ambush from skulks? No thanks.

    Also if they were that important they could cost more than 1 res. Losing cysts is an inconvenience, nothing more
  • Al_BoboAl_Bobo Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183957Members
    Current cyst hp is ok. I just axe/weld them and listen for skulk sounds.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    edited November 2013
    No. That would mean that a marine can destroy a whole network of cysts by himself easily before getting eaten.
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Spam is the only reason I can imagine yes.

    And yes, a single cyst is not too much to kill next to a node or anything. It's when the kham has cysted every room with 10 fucking cysts it becomes rediculous. You simply CAN'T clear the whole room before either A. aliens show up and either stall you indefinitely or kill you after you use bullets, or B. the kham echos whips onto you.

    Also, @F0rdPrefect I really hate the auto cyst system as it makes precise cysting so much harder, half the time it wants to connect to some other chain and the other half it just tries to put one in between the cyst you want and the last cyst you have. You should be able to turn it off as an option in the kham UI and use only manual cysting if you wish.

    Also the fact that if you drop two chains out of your hive in two different directions only one chain will start growing, the other will not start until the first chain has completely finished, is pretty dumb. But that's for another thread.

    That's why you get a flamethrower (yes those have uses!)
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    coolitic wrote: »
    No. That would mean that a marine can destroy a whole network of cysts by himself easily before getting eaten.

    And cost the aliens what? 5-6 tres? Not a big deal
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    It is really tedious to kill cysts in a 6v6 when the alien comm is swimming in res in mid / late game. You often don't have the time to kill the cysts, because you are either pushing for harvesters /upgrades / hives or already awaiting the aliens where you can't pull your axe out to kill cysts.

    I'd say keep the current health, but increase the damage over time for unconnected cysts.

    Not even through sheer number tweaking, but so that the second, third and maybe forth cyst also receives (reduced) damage over time.

    Aliens would have to heal (or recyst) their cysts more often or risk to suddenly lose bigger parts of cyst chain throughout the game.

    That won't work when all the comm has to do is drop a cyst to make them "connected" again, stopping them taking damage, then you kill the cyst again only for a repeat. They just won't die fast enough and the time it takes isn't worth it. Let us fucking kill them with weapons.

    There could be a delay when "reattaching". Not build time though, so it doesn't mess with the expansion speed.
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Members
    edited November 2013
    I dont like cysts altogether, the only good thing about them is that they serve to limit the power of echo, spikes and rupture. Other than that they are nothing but a ball and chain around the alien teams legs/paws whatever.
    But as for too much hp, not if you bring a flamer.
  • SUPER_SARSSUPER_SARS Join Date: 2013-02-13 Member: 183039Members
    edited November 2013
    What I wana see is something for the commander when they drop a cyst. Like a ring around the cyst showing how far out it will reach when attempting to put it down. Kind of like the ring around the obs but you get to make sure the cyst you put down reaches everywhere you want it to.
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    This^
    I suggested that like 5 months ago. It would have been more important when you couldnt build on infestation but still. I think it would be nice to see the overlap.
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members
    I wouldn't mind lowering fully matured cyst HP by about 20%.
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