Rule 2: Just because you're not getting medpacked, doesn't mean nobody isnt getting medpacked
Rule 3: If you dont get medpacked straight away, STFU, wait a few moments and then try again. The comm is trying to do something important.
Also, good player vs fade isnt worth medpacking? Are you srs? All the times I've 1v1 and had a fade run on me with less than 100hp. It depends on the individual engagement though. Sometimes it's easy to get a fade to miss half a dozen swipes :P
Medpaks are best described as situational.
While there are a few scenarios where you should medpak a marine against a fade, usually they will die anyways against the fade or the fade will escape, wasting res. Of course, if you got tons of res, why not?
It just makes me sad when a comm drops 12 medpacks and 8 ammo packs in a massive pile.... and there's only 3-4 marines there. That "omg my marines are in trouble, I'm obliged to drop 25 res for them" gives this really sad feeling when I walk away from that big pile as a marine. That could have been mines research there or 1/2 an upgrade. T_T
It's the same with an early game scan in the first 2-3 minutes. Yes it's helpful but early game res is the most expensive res, use it when really needed.
While there are a few scenarios where you should medpak a marine against a fade, usually they will die anyways against the fade or the fade will escape, wasting res. Of course, if you got tons of res, why not?
The word 'situational' carries a connotation of being used rarely and in very specific situations, and that's something that applies to not medding. Medding your marines should be the default situation, with deciding to save the res for something else being the exception.
Making a fade escape and the marine live is by far not a waste of res.
It's the same with an early game scan in the first 2-3 minutes. Yes it's helpful but early game res is the most expensive res, use it when really needed.
Just yesterday I've played against marine comm who was starving for intelligence. Obs in every room. No joke. Near every RT. And while I was biting extractors, he was scanning on top of that. I felt like it was some sort of reality TV.
Med packs ARE the difference in losing a fight and winning a fight. There have been plenty of times I have won an engagement because of a med pack drop, which allowed me to hold down till someone comes to help me push, then take an RT and even at times lead us to get a base down. They are also times in which I could have won if I had even just one medpack and that has lead them to push0 us and take territory before the marines could get a proper foothold. This is especially more important earlier on in a round but is still an important part in late game.
It just makes me sad when a comm drops 12 medpacks and 8 ammo packs in a massive pile.... and there's only 3-4 marines there. That "omg my marines are in trouble, I'm obliged to drop 25 res for them" gives this really sad feeling when I walk away from that big pile as a marine. That could have been mines research there or 1/2 an upgrade. T_T
It's the same with an early game scan in the first 2-3 minutes. Yes it's helpful but early game res is the most expensive res, use it when really needed.
The difference between Medkits/Ammo being in front of them and being dropped on them is pretty big. I absolutely hate when commanders do this, but it's understandable in large (6+) groups of marines. The issue is that the Marines have to walk over the dropped supplies in order to get them, which could put them in a bad position. There is also a cool-down on how quick Medkits from the ground can be picked up. On the other hand, medkits can be insta-dropped as fast as you can land them.
Med's on marines, ammo next to them... It seems like the com always wants to refill my pistol ammo when my SG/LMG is empty. Also I like to leave ammo near the harvester the rine is shooting so he can choose when to get it.
As far as the strait up ammo/med spam, if you have the res, it is pretty intimidating to see it raining health and ammo... And if they are spread out a bit the rines can dance from full health to full health.
It's the same with an early game scan in the first 2-3 minutes. Yes it's helpful but early game res is the most expensive res, use it when really needed.
Just yesterday I've played against marine comm who was starving for intelligence. Obs in every room. No joke. Near every RT. And while I was biting extractors, he was scanning on top of that. I felt like it was some sort of reality TV.
I really wish marine comms I play with did that more often. As a marine that presses c more than his trigger button, I'd LOVE to know when a gorge rush is coming with more than 2s warning. (not to mention the scintillating texture you get as an alien is a big deterent).
Recently I had a commander announce at the very start of the game that he wasn't going to give out any medpacks for a while. That was fun..
I once announced at the very start on 24p server that I am not giving ANY medpacks or ammo, as we are going to have uber fast jetpacks, and if you want any health or ammo, you should either go all the way back to base or just die and respawn. Almost got ejected after few minutes, but at 4:10 in the match we had jetpacks and a1, I beaconed everyone, told to get JPs anf GL, fly together to hive, and focus it so it goes down within seconds. That's when kickvote to kick me appeared, and it succeed when half the team that was listening entered hive room (for those who didn't pay attention to what I was saying and those who didn't check tech tree, it appeared that comm was giving zero support and then beaconed everyone for lulz, obvious troll, right). A friend of mine who was there told me that hive was dead and match won just seconds after I got kicked.
So, eh, what was the story for? Zero support for greater good can be viable, you just need people who listen and agree with you.
I would argue that it probably worked out because your team was simply better than the other team. Whilst I wasn't there I can only assume that they won in spite of the lack of meds, not because of it.
Although in theory not medding means more res to put into the jp rush, you need to think this through as it ignores a lot of things. Namely keeping marines in forward positions. To laneblock in order to prevent expansion and keep aliens from getting to extractor. To respond to aliens chomping on extractors (and you need that tres and pres to facilitate jps more than you need a res here and there to keep those extractors from dying). And also, to kill alien harvestors to prevent them from getting too much res momentum (your assumably unupgraded or barely upgraded marines in jetpacks aren't gonna mean much if a whole bunch of fades come out at the same time).
"if you want any health or ammo, you should either go all the way back to base or just die and respawn"
The issue with this is that although getting medded is technically free in this instance, those dying marines or marines running all the way back to base are essentially doing NOTHING. They're doing nothing beneficial/productive from the moment they start respawning, or running back to base, till the moment they return to the front lines. 1-3 tres on medpacks or ammo is absolutely worth preventing this downtime as it is a fast paced game. Any team that messes around not doing anything of merit has a severe disadvantage because a competant opposing team will take advantage of that and tech up far quicker which will likely snowball out of control before you can do anything about it.
It's a game of pressure, and whether that pressure comes from marines expanding territory and res momentum, or if it comes from marines killing harvestors, if medpacks and ammo aren't given it has a huge detriment to the amount of pressure they can maintain due to the resulting downtimes (thus giving aliens more breathing room to out pressure them with their own res-killing and expansion). Because suddenly - that team of 3/4 marines killing harvestors is only 1 guy, because the other guys had to run back to base to get health or ammo, allowing the aliens to only require 1/2 skulks to clean him up, which in turn allows the extra aliens to go chomp res, further taking the pressure away from the marines camp because somebody then has to go and respond to that (if there are even marines in the vicinity due to the majority either going to and from base), which takes him away from his own duties of killing/building res or whatever - another thing aliens don't need to worry about allowing them to direct their pressure elsewhere. Also, those teams of people getting res will have less people for the same reasons, leaving them vulnerable (if they weren't vulnerable enough from the lack of meds). Perhaps they get killed because of it and then aliens kill 1/2 harvestors because there aren't enough marines in forward positions to stop it. Is the 1tres you're saving here and there on medpacks still worth it?
It worked out for you guys. But obviously teams weren't balanced to begin with. Either that or the alien team severely dropped the ball and underperformed. I can't see any other way they couldn't otherwise take advantage of this.
Sorry for the essay. If you're looking for brevity, then joshhh sums it up nicely:
It's the same with an early game scan in the first 2-3 minutes. Yes it's helpful but early game res is the most expensive res, use it when really needed.
Just yesterday I've played against marine comm who was starving for intelligence. Obs in every room. No joke. Near every RT. And while I was biting extractors, he was scanning on top of that. I felt like it was some sort of reality TV.
I really wish marine comms I play with did that more often. As a marine that presses c more than his trigger button, I'd LOVE to know when a gorge rush is coming with more than 2s warning. (not to mention the scintillating texture you get as an alien is a big deterent).
You don't need observatories everywhere to see a rush coming. All you need is game sense and focus.
Med's on marines, ammo next to them... It seems like the com always wants to refill my pistol ammo when my SG/LMG is empty. Also I like to leave ammo near the harvester the rine is shooting so he can choose when to get it.
As far as the strait up ammo/med spam, if you have the res, it is pretty intimidating to see it raining health and ammo... And if they are spread out a bit the rines can dance from full health to full health.
Ammo refills all weapons now, that's no longer an issue unless you want that one extra clip you would get by reloading first.
While there are a few scenarios where you should medpak a marine against a fade, usually they will die anyways against the fade or the fade will escape, wasting res. Of course, if you got tons of res, why not?
The word 'situational' carries a connotation of being used rarely and in very specific situations, and that's something that applies to not medding. Medding your marines should be the default situation, with deciding to save the res for something else being the exception.
Making a fade escape and the marine live is by far not a waste of res.
Making a fade take around 20 extra damage while the marine still dies .65 seconds later is completely situational though. That's how most medpack marine vs fade situations go, and the 20 damage is only if you are very lucky and the marine manages to switch to his pistol.
Making a fade take around 20 extra damage while the marine still dies .65 seconds later is completely situational though. That's how most medpack marine vs fade situations go, and the 20 damage is only if you are very lucky and the marine manages to switch to his pistol.
Uhm, 20 damage is 2 bullets without upgrades. I'm pretty sure a medpack buys you more time than that. Not to mention the 200+ potential damage of an additional shotgun shot...
It's the same with an early game scan in the first 2-3 minutes. Yes it's helpful but early game res is the most expensive res, use it when really needed.
Just yesterday I've played against marine comm who was starving for intelligence. Obs in every room. No joke. Near every RT. And while I was biting extractors, he was scanning on top of that. I felt like it was some sort of reality TV.
I really wish marine comms I play with did that more often. As a marine that presses c more than his trigger button, I'd LOVE to know when a gorge rush is coming with more than 2s warning. (not to mention the scintillating texture you get as an alien is a big deterent).
You don't need observatories everywhere to see a rush coming. All you need is game sense and focus.
Probably should have made my post more clear. I was thinking of the construction of Observatories in marine bases that are protected like a treasure instead of being used as early warning, like in Veil where the Obs is to the bottom right of the CC leaving the parts of the left side (and quickest route to the power node) uncovered or in Docking where the Obs covers the top right but leaves landing pad and courtyard open. An extra Obs would be nice so that when we see them on the map they're not already in the room.
Sure, you can hope everyone has game sense and focus, the comm isn't busy and the people that do check the map aren't under attack to predict surprise attacks, but I'd prefer that extra 3-4s warning leeway.
You want a med, ammo? Just build the armory I dropped then!
sigh
Haha this happend to me and another marine vs 3 overcommited fades, all out of ammo and fades on 10 hp tops! both request an ammo pack each
Comm said you was not supposed to be in reactor core (but we killed, 2 gorges, 6 hydras, and a harvester with axes) left over bullets dealt sevear dmg to fades so he drops a blueprint to be a jerk as if we ware going to survive building it while they fly off to heal...
Halfway blinking away they hear request: need ammo & turning around ,2 marines sits with axes on top of each other in the little pipe area stairing at a blueprint lol all 3 of them did a ring around the rosie cuple of laps then blocked us, i killed my self to respawn and not waste more time while he grabbed axe and actually killed the first fade with 1 swing. It was absurd what 2 res worth of ammo could done in that entire scenario while commander was watching it all.
It's the same with an early game scan in the first 2-3 minutes. Yes it's helpful but early game res is the most expensive res, use it when really needed.
Just yesterday I've played against marine comm who was starving for intelligence. Obs in every room. No joke. Near every RT. And while I was biting extractors, he was scanning on top of that. I felt like it was some sort of reality TV.
I really wish marine comms I play with did that more often. As a marine that presses c more than his trigger button, I'd LOVE to know when a gorge rush is coming with more than 2s warning. (not to mention the scintillating texture you get as an alien is a big deterent).
You don't need observatories everywhere to see a rush coming. All you need is game sense and focus.
Probably should have made my post more clear. I was thinking of the construction of Observatories in marine bases that are protected like a treasure instead of being used as early warning, like in Veil where the Obs is to the bottom right of the CC leaving the parts of the left side (and quickest route to the power node) uncovered or in Docking where the Obs covers the top right but leaves landing pad and courtyard open. An extra Obs would be nice so that when we see them on the map they're not already in the room.
Sure, you can hope everyone has game sense and focus, the comm isn't busy and the people that do check the map aren't under attack to predict surprise attacks, but I'd prefer that extra 3-4s warning leeway.
Fair deuce, but even an additional obs in base will barely grant you a second of extra time. Rushes need to be prevented by proper lane blocking and scouting. If nobody sees the rush coming beforehand and/or the comm doesn't respond IMMEDIATELY, chances are you're f*cked either way.
I don't see why an individual could not pay for his own med if he sees fit ? Even at a higher price that the one dropped by the comm.
What are the cons ? Maybe there have been a lot of talking about this elsewhere ...
Recently I had a commander announce at the very start of the game that he wasn't going to give out any medpacks for a while. That was fun..
I once announced at the very start on 24p server that I am not giving ANY medpacks or ammo, as we are going to have uber fast jetpacks, and if you want any health or ammo, you should either go all the way back to base or just die and respawn. Almost got ejected after few minutes, but at 4:10 in the match we had jetpacks and a1, I beaconed everyone, told to get JPs anf GL, fly together to hive, and focus it so it goes down within seconds. That's when kickvote to kick me appeared, and it succeed when half the team that was listening entered hive room (for those who didn't pay attention to what I was saying and those who didn't check tech tree, it appeared that comm was giving zero support and then beaconed everyone for lulz, obvious troll, right). A friend of mine who was there told me that hive was dead and match won just seconds after I got kicked.
So, eh, what was the story for? Zero support for greater good can be viable, you just need people who listen and agree with you.
I would argue that it probably worked out because your team was simply better than the other team. Whilst I wasn't there I can only assume that they won in spite of the lack of meds, not because of it.
Although in theory not medding means more res to put into the jp rush, you need to think this through as it ignores a lot of things. Namely keeping marines in forward positions. To laneblock in order to prevent expansion and keep aliens from getting to extractor.
Well, if everyone followed the plan, they wouldn't need meds or ammo at all in first place. Plan was: get 3 external RTs (4 in total), just hold em and wait until a1 and jetpacks 4 minutes into the game, destroy aliens.
I was curious if it'd work again, this time it was 10v10 game on server where I am regular, so there was no miscommunication or hatred towards me, as we know each other and my team trusted me. 2x2x2x2 people in every RT room (including base) just standing there and defending and only one guy running around, trying to do at least some minor damage. As soon as jetpacks were up, marines were beaconed, and 7 of them left for enemy base, while two left for defense. Hive went down pretty fast and it was gg. Alien comm even expressed some appreciation.
This time it was executed like 80% right, nobody left their duty, nobody complained about lack of meds or ammo, as they clearly understood the purpose.
Teams were more or less even (most of the players were regulars on both sides, skill based shuffle used).
Also, this tactics was used against me in 6v6 (not pro comp, but still organized play) by my friend (who was with me on that server were I got kicked for not medding and beaconing). We, aliens, were a better team (they've lost all 4 matches to us), but they still got our main hive and upgrades with five and a half minute jetpack rush. Five and a half (against original 4 + 0-20 seconds), I already dropped second hive by that point, as we had a gorge and started getting too much res. Their problem was that they did not follow original build order, used some meds and ammo too early into the game (you can only start supporting after jetpacks started if you don't want a1, only after beacon if you want it), timing is important here. We won eventually because of early second hive, it was still really really scary to be on receiving end of this rush.
So, I'd say in some cases, under certain circumstances, if there is a well thought plan and a team that can listen, surviving without support few minutes for greater good might worth it.
The more I think of ultra-early jetpacks, at the cost of not pushing and not supporting, the more I like it. In case you know they've got second hive already, few GL-JPs can destroy whole enemy economy in seconds. One harvester goes down before 3 jetpackers empty their GL clips, now combine this with speed that jetpacks give, and the fact that fades or even leap are impossible by this point, and you get almost unstoppable force, that can only be stopped by hardcore pro lerks (that, if teams are evenly filled with pros, can be countered by hardcore pro grenade in lerk's face).
While there are a few scenarios where you should medpak a marine against a fade, usually they will die anyways against the fade or the fade will escape, wasting res. Of course, if you got tons of res, why not?
The word 'situational' carries a connotation of being used rarely and in very specific situations, and that's something that applies to not medding. Medding your marines should be the default situation, with deciding to save the res for something else being the exception.
Making a fade escape and the marine live is by far not a waste of res.
It doesn't. For example, "situational" items in Dota 2 are gotten every game. There is a bunch and you usually get each item depending on the situation. Situation + al.
Unless you are at end-game when you dont need to build stuff, medpaks should be asked for sparingly. Even the NS2 tutorial states this.
Also if fade escapes it can just heal itself for free. Although now healing takes forever so yes it may have some use.
EDIT: I think I have found the confusion. Are you pertaining to competitive or regular matches?
Honestly comp matches are so different from regular ones that they're like a different game.
EDIT: I think I have found the confusion. Are you pertaining to competitive or regular matches?
Honestly comp matches are so different from regular ones that they're like a different game.
This is also not relevant. This seems to be the back-up reason to justify not needing actual evidence and experience and spewing opinionated guesses. It's the same game.
EDIT: I think I have found the confusion. Are you pertaining to competitive or regular matches?
Honestly comp matches are so different from regular ones that they're like a different game.
This is also not relevant. This seems to be the back-up reason to justify not needing actual evidence and experience and spewing opinionated guesses. It's the same game.
I'm afraid that mentality will lead to more entitlement from marines.
"Comm, why the hell didn't you med me? We NEED more medpacks to win this game."
"We could have held that RT if you medded us more."
"Comm, we could have held that RT if you medded me twice in that 1 on 1."
"Look, Comm, we could be doing better if you'd med us better."
"Medpaks are NOT optional comm, where the F were you in that fight?"
I dunno, maybe it's because I avoid comming because I know it's a stressful job so I don't begrudge comms. If a comm doesn't med me, maybe it's because he's busy and isn't the next supreme NS2 commander (or I should hit that request medpack button)? The way you're putting it, if a marine doesn't get meds consistently like in pro games, the comm is doing bad.
^ I think it's still a fair complaint from marines who call for medpacks and either have to wait >10 seconds or have to call multiple times (often including voice comm requests) to get meds.
I'm far from the best commander, but I damn well make sure my marines are kept alive in the places I need them kept alive. There's precious little more frustrating as a marine on the ground than doing 400+ damage to a fade, only to have it kill you because you had zero med support, despite calling in advance and telling the comm you have contact at your location. I see what you're saying about 'entitlement' but there is to some degree a justification for that!
I dunno, maybe it's because I avoid comming because I know it's a stressful job so I don't begrudge comms. If a comm doesn't med me, maybe it's because he's busy and isn't the next supreme NS2 commander (or I should hit that request medpack button)? The way you're putting it, if a marine doesn't get meds consistently like in pro games, the comm is doing bad.
This thread is more about comms refusing to med because they don't understand the game well enough in various ways, not about comms who genuinely try but still lack the technical ability.
If it gets to the point where I vocally complain about not getting meds and the comm was genuinely just busy elsewhere, a simple "sorry I was busy" is perfectly fine. Shit happens. I have to do this quite a bit as well. If on the other hand a comm gives me shit like "you would have died anyway" or tells me to "do something useful instead" when I would have killed a lifeform with just 2 medpacks for the 9th time in one round, I'm very likely to lose my temper.
Comments
armor.
Medpaks are best described as situational.
While there are a few scenarios where you should medpak a marine against a fade, usually they will die anyways against the fade or the fade will escape, wasting res. Of course, if you got tons of res, why not?
It's the same with an early game scan in the first 2-3 minutes. Yes it's helpful but early game res is the most expensive res, use it when really needed.
The word 'situational' carries a connotation of being used rarely and in very specific situations, and that's something that applies to not medding. Medding your marines should be the default situation, with deciding to save the res for something else being the exception.
Making a fade escape and the marine live is by far not a waste of res.
The difference between Medkits/Ammo being in front of them and being dropped on them is pretty big. I absolutely hate when commanders do this, but it's understandable in large (6+) groups of marines. The issue is that the Marines have to walk over the dropped supplies in order to get them, which could put them in a bad position. There is also a cool-down on how quick Medkits from the ground can be picked up. On the other hand, medkits can be insta-dropped as fast as you can land them.
As far as the strait up ammo/med spam, if you have the res, it is pretty intimidating to see it raining health and ammo... And if they are spread out a bit the rines can dance from full health to full health.
I really wish marine comms I play with did that more often. As a marine that presses c more than his trigger button, I'd LOVE to know when a gorge rush is coming with more than 2s warning. (not to mention the scintillating texture you get as an alien is a big deterent).
I would argue that it probably worked out because your team was simply better than the other team. Whilst I wasn't there I can only assume that they won in spite of the lack of meds, not because of it.
Although in theory not medding means more res to put into the jp rush, you need to think this through as it ignores a lot of things. Namely keeping marines in forward positions. To laneblock in order to prevent expansion and keep aliens from getting to extractor. To respond to aliens chomping on extractors (and you need that tres and pres to facilitate jps more than you need a res here and there to keep those extractors from dying). And also, to kill alien harvestors to prevent them from getting too much res momentum (your assumably unupgraded or barely upgraded marines in jetpacks aren't gonna mean much if a whole bunch of fades come out at the same time).
"if you want any health or ammo, you should either go all the way back to base or just die and respawn"
The issue with this is that although getting medded is technically free in this instance, those dying marines or marines running all the way back to base are essentially doing NOTHING. They're doing nothing beneficial/productive from the moment they start respawning, or running back to base, till the moment they return to the front lines. 1-3 tres on medpacks or ammo is absolutely worth preventing this downtime as it is a fast paced game. Any team that messes around not doing anything of merit has a severe disadvantage because a competant opposing team will take advantage of that and tech up far quicker which will likely snowball out of control before you can do anything about it.
It's a game of pressure, and whether that pressure comes from marines expanding territory and res momentum, or if it comes from marines killing harvestors, if medpacks and ammo aren't given it has a huge detriment to the amount of pressure they can maintain due to the resulting downtimes (thus giving aliens more breathing room to out pressure them with their own res-killing and expansion). Because suddenly - that team of 3/4 marines killing harvestors is only 1 guy, because the other guys had to run back to base to get health or ammo, allowing the aliens to only require 1/2 skulks to clean him up, which in turn allows the extra aliens to go chomp res, further taking the pressure away from the marines camp because somebody then has to go and respond to that (if there are even marines in the vicinity due to the majority either going to and from base), which takes him away from his own duties of killing/building res or whatever - another thing aliens don't need to worry about allowing them to direct their pressure elsewhere. Also, those teams of people getting res will have less people for the same reasons, leaving them vulnerable (if they weren't vulnerable enough from the lack of meds). Perhaps they get killed because of it and then aliens kill 1/2 harvestors because there aren't enough marines in forward positions to stop it. Is the 1tres you're saving here and there on medpacks still worth it?
It worked out for you guys. But obviously teams weren't balanced to begin with. Either that or the alien team severely dropped the ball and underperformed. I can't see any other way they couldn't otherwise take advantage of this.
Sorry for the essay. If you're looking for brevity, then joshhh sums it up nicely:
You don't need observatories everywhere to see a rush coming. All you need is game sense and focus.
Wanted to flag spam this troll...
I'd prefer Pres Cat Packs. 5 Pres for 1 shot of crack- I mean, combat drugs.
Ammo refills all weapons now, that's no longer an issue unless you want that one extra clip you would get by reloading first.
Making a fade take around 20 extra damage while the marine still dies .65 seconds later is completely situational though. That's how most medpack marine vs fade situations go, and the 20 damage is only if you are very lucky and the marine manages to switch to his pistol.
Uhm, 20 damage is 2 bullets without upgrades. I'm pretty sure a medpack buys you more time than that. Not to mention the 200+ potential damage of an additional shotgun shot...
Probably should have made my post more clear. I was thinking of the construction of Observatories in marine bases that are protected like a treasure instead of being used as early warning, like in Veil where the Obs is to the bottom right of the CC leaving the parts of the left side (and quickest route to the power node) uncovered or in Docking where the Obs covers the top right but leaves landing pad and courtyard open. An extra Obs would be nice so that when we see them on the map they're not already in the room.
Sure, you can hope everyone has game sense and focus, the comm isn't busy and the people that do check the map aren't under attack to predict surprise attacks, but I'd prefer that extra 3-4s warning leeway.
Haha this happend to me and another marine vs 3 overcommited fades, all out of ammo and fades on 10 hp tops! both request an ammo pack each
Comm said you was not supposed to be in reactor core (but we killed, 2 gorges, 6 hydras, and a harvester with axes) left over bullets dealt sevear dmg to fades so he drops a blueprint to be a jerk as if we ware going to survive building it while they fly off to heal...
Halfway blinking away they hear request: need ammo & turning around ,2 marines sits with axes on top of each other in the little pipe area stairing at a blueprint lol all 3 of them did a ring around the rosie cuple of laps then blocked us, i killed my self to respawn and not waste more time while he grabbed axe and actually killed the first fade with 1 swing. It was absurd what 2 res worth of ammo could done in that entire scenario while commander was watching it all.
Fair deuce, but even an additional obs in base will barely grant you a second of extra time. Rushes need to be prevented by proper lane blocking and scouting. If nobody sees the rush coming beforehand and/or the comm doesn't respond IMMEDIATELY, chances are you're f*cked either way.
I don't see why an individual could not pay for his own med if he sees fit ? Even at a higher price that the one dropped by the comm.
What are the cons ? Maybe there have been a lot of talking about this elsewhere ...
Well, if everyone followed the plan, they wouldn't need meds or ammo at all in first place. Plan was: get 3 external RTs (4 in total), just hold em and wait until a1 and jetpacks 4 minutes into the game, destroy aliens.
I was curious if it'd work again, this time it was 10v10 game on server where I am regular, so there was no miscommunication or hatred towards me, as we know each other and my team trusted me. 2x2x2x2 people in every RT room (including base) just standing there and defending and only one guy running around, trying to do at least some minor damage. As soon as jetpacks were up, marines were beaconed, and 7 of them left for enemy base, while two left for defense. Hive went down pretty fast and it was gg. Alien comm even expressed some appreciation.
This time it was executed like 80% right, nobody left their duty, nobody complained about lack of meds or ammo, as they clearly understood the purpose.
Teams were more or less even (most of the players were regulars on both sides, skill based shuffle used).
Also, this tactics was used against me in 6v6 (not pro comp, but still organized play) by my friend (who was with me on that server were I got kicked for not medding and beaconing). We, aliens, were a better team (they've lost all 4 matches to us), but they still got our main hive and upgrades with five and a half minute jetpack rush. Five and a half (against original 4 + 0-20 seconds), I already dropped second hive by that point, as we had a gorge and started getting too much res. Their problem was that they did not follow original build order, used some meds and ammo too early into the game (you can only start supporting after jetpacks started if you don't want a1, only after beacon if you want it), timing is important here. We won eventually because of early second hive, it was still really really scary to be on receiving end of this rush.
So, I'd say in some cases, under certain circumstances, if there is a well thought plan and a team that can listen, surviving without support few minutes for greater good might worth it.
The more I think of ultra-early jetpacks, at the cost of not pushing and not supporting, the more I like it. In case you know they've got second hive already, few GL-JPs can destroy whole enemy economy in seconds. One harvester goes down before 3 jetpackers empty their GL clips, now combine this with speed that jetpacks give, and the fact that fades or even leap are impossible by this point, and you get almost unstoppable force, that can only be stopped by hardcore pro lerks (that, if teams are evenly filled with pros, can be countered by hardcore pro grenade in lerk's face).
It doesn't. For example, "situational" items in Dota 2 are gotten every game. There is a bunch and you usually get each item depending on the situation. Situation + al.
Unless you are at end-game when you dont need to build stuff, medpaks should be asked for sparingly. Even the NS2 tutorial states this.
Also if fade escapes it can just heal itself for free. Although now healing takes forever so yes it may have some use.
EDIT: I think I have found the confusion. Are you pertaining to competitive or regular matches?
Honestly comp matches are so different from regular ones that they're like a different game.
Medpacks are perhaps the most important during the first two minutes.
This is not relevant. If you think that the only time the marines have gained something is by finishing off a lifeform, you've got a lot to learn.
This is also not relevant. This seems to be the back-up reason to justify not needing actual evidence and experience and spewing opinionated guesses. It's the same game.
I'm afraid that mentality will lead to more entitlement from marines.
"Comm, why the hell didn't you med me? We NEED more medpacks to win this game."
"We could have held that RT if you medded us more."
"Comm, we could have held that RT if you medded me twice in that 1 on 1."
"Look, Comm, we could be doing better if you'd med us better."
"Medpaks are NOT optional comm, where the F were you in that fight?"
I dunno, maybe it's because I avoid comming because I know it's a stressful job so I don't begrudge comms. If a comm doesn't med me, maybe it's because he's busy and isn't the next supreme NS2 commander (or I should hit that request medpack button)? The way you're putting it, if a marine doesn't get meds consistently like in pro games, the comm is doing bad.
I'm far from the best commander, but I damn well make sure my marines are kept alive in the places I need them kept alive. There's precious little more frustrating as a marine on the ground than doing 400+ damage to a fade, only to have it kill you because you had zero med support, despite calling in advance and telling the comm you have contact at your location. I see what you're saying about 'entitlement' but there is to some degree a justification for that!
If it gets to the point where I vocally complain about not getting meds and the comm was genuinely just busy elsewhere, a simple "sorry I was busy" is perfectly fine. Shit happens. I have to do this quite a bit as well. If on the other hand a comm gives me shit like "you would have died anyway" or tells me to "do something useful instead" when I would have killed a lifeform with just 2 medpacks for the 9th time in one round, I'm very likely to lose my temper.