ns2_narvi WIP/Help Thread

MoconnorMoconnor Join Date: 2002-07-26 Member: 1004Members
edited July 2014 in Mapping
Hey guys, been a long long time since I did any level design of any sort. So I've been working with the spark editor on and off now for a while.

This thread is for me to post my progress and also to ask some of the experienced players and mappers to help me with this map.
There is some areas of the map that need worked on and I'm not sure about the location of TPs and the RTs. I need to add more location entities (and think of some better location names) and power nodes. I also have no vent system in place yet, but it's really got to that stage were I now need some outside eyes on this map, otherwise I'm just going to keep going over my own work getting me nowhere.

The map is playable, and it is greybox only. I wouldn't say it is ready for a playtest just yet, but if some of you fine people could have a run around and give me some feedback I'd love to start making more solid progress with this map so I can get this map play-tested and start working on the visuals.

Workshop Link

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=283426439

Here is the current overview.

ns2_narvi_overview_1.jpg

Comments

  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    edited July 2014
    Wow! This certainly came out of nowhere, and it looks pretty good right off the bat!

    Here's what you need to do to get the map functional: you need an overview and a height map. To do this, use builder to automatically generate them. In your mod directory, you should have two folders: "source", and "output". For the most part, you shouldn't even touch "output". Inside of "source", you'll need a folder called "mapsrc". Place your .level file in that folder. Then, when you run builder from launchpad, it'll automatically copy your .level file over to the corresponding "maps" folder in the "output" folder, as well as create the overview TGA and HMP files.

    Then, you'll need some occlusion geo for the map. Doesn't need to be too detailed at all, just need it to help cut some of the draw calls down.
    Here's a video that covers Occlusion Geometry... how to make it, what it's actually doing... etc. http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/135091/spark-editor-tutorial-occlusion-geometry

    In terms of layout... looking really good for a first draft! One thing that sticks out to me though is how far away "Pump Station" is from the rest of the map, and how you don't have to run past it to get anywhere else. Every time this RT gets attacked, that means a player has to run backwards, away from every other point on the map just to defend this node. I suggest moving this room a little to the southeast, where it will be closer to the action, and part of the connection, rather than a dead-end room jutting off a main route.

    Also, there might be too many connections on the map. Part of the strength of marines is being able to route-block. That means preventing aliens from getting behind marine lines so they can't attack your resources. Right now, there's just sooo many ways to get from A to B, that it will be difficult for a good marine team to contain even a competent alien team. For example, the route from Central to North could probably be eliminated, which would force anybody trying to go that way to pass through a tech point room.

    When you're ready to play test this, make sure you add some cover to some of the larger rooms (ie central overpass). Aliens will get slaughtered in these large, open areas unless there is something to hide behind.

    Oh and one more thing, make sure there's no spots where aliens (ie gorges, onos) or marines can get stuck without a way out. Right now, in Central, you can jump down and get stuck in the pit, and there's no way to get out except to just type "kill" in the console.
  • joohoo_n3djoohoo_n3d Join Date: 2012-10-30 Member: 164703Members, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Supporter
  • MoconnorMoconnor Join Date: 2002-07-26 Member: 1004Members
    Excellent feedback Beige! Thanks so much. I got builder going, removed some connections and at the moment I'm fixing the main areas where players can get stuck/trapped.

    Was thinking pump station was too far out, I'll get that moved soon. I'll get some occlusion geometry done straight after.

    I'm just going to throw in some vents for now, as I have no idea where they will be of benefit yet.

    I'll have an update soon.

    Good to finally get some feedback! I was beginning to lose motivation to work on this map.
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    edited July 2014
    Moconnor wrote: »
    Excellent feedback Beige! Thanks so much. I got builder going, removed some connections and at the moment I'm fixing the main areas where players can get stuck/trapped.

    Was thinking pump station was too far out, I'll get that moved soon. I'll get some occlusion geometry done straight after.

    I'm just going to throw in some vents for now, as I have no idea where they will be of benefit yet.

    I'll have an update soon.

    Good to finally get some feedback! I was beginning to lose motivation to work on this map.

    I usually have tried to place vents to provide flanking routes for aliens along long hallways that marines *might* be able to otherwise hold a little bit too easily. But ultimately you'll need to pay close attention to where the fighting takes place during testing and figure out how the vents need to be placed to even the playing field. Don't be afraid to have vents going into TP rooms, just be sure that if you do, it doesn't become gorge-grief friendly. I typically either have vents in inconvenient places (ie so you can't just bile bomb from the vent entrance and run back to safety when they shoot at you), or provide a way for marines to get up to the vent to clear it out.

    EDIT: Also, something I should have been more clear about in my first post: the mod file structure. The "source" and "output" folders and sub-folders are VERY important... "output" especially. If you go to your ns2 directory (inside the "natural selection 2" folder), you'll see what the folder structure for your output folder needs to mirror. At the moment, (or at least when I checked earlier... seems to have changed now) the .level file was just sitting in the mod folder's root... it needs to be in the "maps" folder, otherwise it won't load. But again, it's best to just keep your "source" folder organized, and let builder take care of the rest.
  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy Netherlandistan Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    Nice! A surprise more-or-less finished greybox, out of the blue! :D

    Beige pretty much said it all. I'm glad you're cutting down the connections a little. Keep an eye on arc ranges, as you've got some corridors hugging rooms, but to be honest I can't really see any obvious arc issues. Look forward to playing it once you've got it working!
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    That's not to say arcs should be rendered obsolete by the map, just make sure that you can't arc from too far away. Most importantly, make sure aliens have some way of countering the arcs, ie a good flanking vent to where the arcs would be. It's not good to let marines arc from a place with a big line of sight all around. Ideally, the marines have to put in just as much effort to maintain the position as aliens do to assault it.
  • MoconnorMoconnor Join Date: 2002-07-26 Member: 1004Members
    Having some trouble with builder now. It was working earlier today. Now when I click "build" I get the error "No setup file was specified". No clue why this has just started happening.
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    Moconnor wrote: »
    Having some trouble with builder now. It was working earlier today. Now when I click "build" I get the error "No setup file was specified". No clue why this has just started happening.

    Huh... you're running it from launchpad, right? And you've got a "builder_setup.xml" file in your Natural Selection 2 directory?
  • MoconnorMoconnor Join Date: 2002-07-26 Member: 1004Members
    Alright, got it working again. I deleted the builder_setup.xml file and verified the game cache. No clue why it stopped working in the first place. I did delete my old ns2_narvi Steam workshop item though during my frustration. I've updated the original post with the correct link. Sorry about that Beige, you'll have to re-subscribe :D
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