Gorges in vents
sharnrock
Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 166084Members
Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 166084Members
Is the CDT planning on changing anything to prevent gorges from getting up in vents and essentially ruining the game? Skylights (veil), Cargo (veil), and Containment (refinery) come to mind.
How about just preventing people from changing into an egg up in vents? This just seems so obviously broken.
How about just preventing people from changing into an egg up in vents? This just seems so obviously broken.
Comments
Waste of manpower. He isnt healing, he isnt biling anything else.. Gorge is being useless.
Also marines can boost each other in and have nades.. gorges are allergic to grenades.
Its true that you can get in most vents to kill the gorge, but a gorge in the vent with hydras will win that engagement usually. You may get the gorge at some point, but by then it will likely have done a decent amount of damage and more importantly distracted up to several marines.
Gorges in vents was deemed enough of an imbalance to nerf nano vents, so I find it odd sky vents and cargo vents still exist as they are.
Cargo in a sense is worse, you can effectively destroy a marine tech-point with little danger. Sure a marine can climb up to that vent, but that takes time. and as i mentioned a few well placed hydras make short work of that threat.
Balance aside i don't think the game should essentially reward a player for camping a vent.
If Marines got Cargo, that always or almost means the game is over and Marines are going to win this round. Skylight is just very easily protectable, you can go through Overlook or even via Skylight with some Marines to help you jumping into the vent.
It's also, in my opinion, a part of the game, can you defend your RTs despite this "stupid?" strategy? Can you just counter this? Is that even possible to avoid gorges to come in there?
I agree, most of the time, a such thing is boring for Marines, but does it make necessarily an Alien win 'cause of that? This is a game, you have to learn how to prevent this strategy and as I said, except on Veil we can sometimes find this, on the other maps, it's not even noticeable & disturbing.
In the worst case, do whatever you want with a bunch of Marines to kill him, it takes a few seconds indeed if all Marines are listening the orders to drive away this gorge. If your Marines don't, then, yeah, it could be very frustrating to try it out alone, again & again.
and
Easy.
Veil makes one gorge denying two res nodes (though a skulk does the same and the vent is decently easy to get into) for sky/overlook. Cargo might be considered a bigger problem. But for the same reason that makes a JP rush so effective.
Above East Junction however is a huge problem. That little not-vent is the perfect place for a single gorge to completely decimate a nano-arc play. Why is this even still there? I assume it was at some point linked into the Nano Vent system but was changed. Someone just forgot to weld a cover over the thing. It's angled at such a way that makes it extremely difficult to shoot into.
Containment in Refinery is also a pretty significant oversight. I've played games where a gorge sits up there and spits down the starting IP, and since I was dumb enough to put it down in range, my arms lab (No welders at the start means there's no way to repair this little spike of damage). Once bile comes up, the gorge is in range of any useful Obs placement and a crafty one can probably hit the power node with splash. One useless player that requires a useless player to counter it is flat out useless. It's just all around un-fun.
Grenades are about as effective as leaving the gorge alone. They don't do enough damage to one-shot the thing (rightly so), and the gorge has plenty of time to heal up between throws. Having no idea where the grenade is going to land makes tossing them into vents difficult at best. Grenades are not the counter to vent-gorges.
I shouldn't have to assign a majority of my team to deal with one gorge.
So overall I agree that this is a valid tactic, but I don't think it should be anywhere near as effective as it can be in a few locations. This is more a map problem than anything game mechanic related.
I think the best way to counter it would be to allow easier access into the vents responsible. Not obvious access, but a single marine should be able to get in with some well placed jumps (without having to venture into enemy territory).
For the record, we're talking about PUB play here, with teams of 8-12. Where one player can occupy 3 is not acceptable IMO.
However you could argue if one person can keep 3 busy the only idiots are those 3. :P
Skulks always go into that vent, evolve, and just troll spit the structures as they're practically all in LOS of that vent. There really isn't much you can do early game, except have the com get fast grenades. It's just plain annoying and should be fixed. It wouldn't be bad if it was just an RT, but it's a Marine spawn and almost all structures are in clear view of the vent.
Agreed. Being able to harass an RT or a non-marine start is one thing, but being able to spit (or bile!!!) safely in a potential marine start is a big problem.
As far as the Overlook/Skylights vent I really don't see the problem. The jump from Overlook into the vent could be made a tiny bit easier maybe. (I think most people miss the jump because they try to jump onto the power then into the vent) but the Skylights side is fine in my opinion. After all it does only take two marines to boost into that vent from Skylights.
The Cargo vents are also fine as is. Cargo is already hard enough for Aliens to hold, especially if you take into consideration just how stupid easy it is for one or two jetpackers to obliterate it. It doesn't take that long to climb up to where you can kill the Gorge either. "Fixing" the cargo vents would make that room extremely Marine friendly.
We also don't need any more unnecessary limitations like not being able to evolve in vents. It's already bad enough that they "fixed" Gorge tunnels by restricting them to ground level instead of fixing the overpowered spots. Gorging in a vent can be a valid tactic.
Hydras. You're unlikely to out damage a gorge early or even mid game when it has hydras chipping you down.
Besides how is your typical ns2 player going to know about getting into vents that way, its hardly obvious, cargo in particular.
If marines are intended to be able to get into vents, make it simple not through some daft assault course.
And In regards to cargo, there is simply no justification for a vent that covers an entire tech-point, its beyond stupid.
If its just one gorge being a nuisance, sure you might be able to deal with it. But if its in addition to even a small alien rush?, now what?, are you supposed to go through some fucking assault course to reach that gorge whilst under attack from skulks and other lifeforms?
Only reason its not more of an issue is because marines rarely set up cargo, as aliens more often than not, will either start there or claim it as a second base. But that is no justification for stupid map design, either move the vent so it doesn't cover the tech-point, or make it so any gorge needs to expose himself to bile.
Sub sector was changed for this exact reason, so its not asking a lot for cargo to be changed as well.
Less said about containment vent the better, that shit is just troll bait.
If theres a gorge wasting time spitting power node for one hour its only good for marines.
Then why not just put a ladder?
All I'm saying is, if the vents were modified, would YOU complain to put them back the way they were? Never once have I been on the alien team and thought to myself, "there needs to be a hold here I can shoot bile out of without getting hit to have fun". It's not needed to play the game. It just makes it exponentially worse imo. If you want to bile bomb a tech point, run in and play the game. Use your teammates for cover, get shot, shoot stuff. That's how fun works.
The problem with giving marine easy access to all vents is that it will deny the Skulks the ability to take short cuts through the map. You can only nerf the map so much before it gives the marines too much advantage (aliens advantage is map mobility). I agree a gorge in the skylight vent is annoying, (but thats why you don't take sky lights first, you get overlook to slow that down). I know some of these spots are some what unintended, but to make it easy for marines to get to some or all vents is not the answer. Also, I think the existence of these places gives you a different approach to playing a map. If everything was "fair, and equal" we will have all the maps playing out about the same way.
Gorges in vents makes marines play better together. /thread :P
In fact, most balancing issues can, and should, be fixed with better map designs rather than patching the game, when ever possible imo.
anyhow, vents play a big part in alien flanking and tactics, not having vents such as these would create even more boring games,
So it's time to start arcing nano. There's a gorge in skylights vent that keeps 5 marines busy while another pops out of nano vent and we lose _all_ the arcs, robo factory, everything in west.
So i'm like GUYS **** OFF EVERYONE, (*names them all*), GO DEFEND SYSTEM NOW JUST IGNORE THIS GORGE I'LL DEAL WITH HIM MYSELF
In fairness, they did actually listen and went to system like I asked.
I jump into the vent from overlook, pump bullets into @MuckyMcFly the gorge and he clogs my face before sliding away into the night, never to be seen again. But at least he's gone.
So I check my map, turns out everyone in system (6-7 marines, mostly the ones that were playing kiss-chase with the gorge for 5 minutes).. they were all dead, system PG went down and we lost the game eventually.
In conclusion, 5 marines that cant kill a gorge in a vent are going to be absolutely ******* useless wherever you put them.
lolz. I love how this community is small enough to encounter ppl you chat to on the forums in game. And how friendly the banter is :-) good times.
You don't see this as a problem though? 5 players can't figure out how to kill a single gorge to save an RT. That's broken gameplay.
Then let's change the map please.
And for that reason I love the skylights vent as well. It's actually one of my favourites, because there are many different ways and approaches to get in to it. However, this is a vent that even I have to admit does need to be accessible to new players - as it is undeniably too easy to deny those 2 rts on veil otherwise.
I think making a ladder or even just a climbable box in skylights to access the vent, would fix most peoples frustrations with this particular vent. It's still going to be strong with hydras and clogs while spitting in the vent, but with proper medpack support a single marine should be able to take care of a single gorge.
It's not that they couldnt figure it out, because I told them myself; it was pure ineptitude.